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AirPlay and Thunderbolt May Be Limited to High-End Devices to Start
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But not if the one before is unplugged!
Seriously, though, "bus power" was included in the 1394 spec to make this possible. It isn't there to power the device itself, it's there so that a 1394 controller has enough power available to pass through signals if the main device is off.
And your other statements may not be wrong, but until we see some official announcements of TBolt hubs we should not assume that they are on the way.
Wouldn't it be a 2TB² disk?
Well actually it can be unplugged because the ports are daisy-chained, meaning pass-thru ports on the device side, and its the computer's interface that rules the chain. I do this all the time. This is why I said no citation is needed. The official announcement stated the Thunderbolt (TB) interface is a daisy-chain interface just like Firewire.
But that does not mean hub based topologies are supported. Again, a citation is needed.
It doesn't even mean what you says it means. Daisy chaining TB devices could require all devices to be turned on and processing information through their TB controllers.
That is why I would like a citation before I accept it as fact that hubs are possible and not just daisy chains.
You "do this all the time" with 1394, right?
Why do you so adamantly claim that TBolt works the same as 1394, without any information whatsoever to support that claim?
*NOBODY* is using openly purchased TBolt devices yet.
I could claim that disconnecting a TBolt cable with an openly available TBolt device causes a kernel panic every time - *AND YOU COULD NOT PROVE ME WRONG*.
I wouldn't make that claim, of course, since there are no available TBolt devices for sale today.
ps: Do you remember the Apple OSX upgrade where the installer decided to reformat any attached external drives? Stuff happens, and until Apple announces that "something new" is supported and customer feedback is that "something new" works - I won't bet my time and money on it working.
Agreed, I have spent hours transferring via usb 2.0 a complete loss in terms of productivity
Why would you copy "a complete loss in terms of productivity" - why not delete it and start over?
Would it be better if TBolt could copy your "complete loss" ten times faster?
I dont think ThunderBolt should be contrasted with usb3, any more than FW and usb2. The socket is already there, for the display port but with added features. One day we will have usb3, (probably when intel makes a chipset).
Many Windows/Linux users have USB 3.0 already, even those using Sandy Bridge motherboards from Intel with USB 3.0 on the mobo. Yes, Intel motherboards have USB 3.0 but not TBolt.
Total BS
This is such BS. How can it possibly cost $100 to add AirPlay ability to a device when Apple sells the Apple TV with AirPlay as just one of its many features for less than $100?
Now, before anyone points this out I know that Apple has the economies of scale and can get parts cheaper than most. But even that would not allow them to sell an entire device for less money than you are saying it would cost any other manufacturer to add this one feature.
And let's look at the iSuppli Apple TV breakdown
This is such BS. How can it possibly cost $100 to add AirPlay ability to a device when Apple sells the Apple TV with AirPlay as just one of its many features for less than $100?
Now, before anyone points this out I know that Apple has the economies of scale and can get parts cheaper than most. But even that would not allow them to sell an entire device for less money than you are saying it would cost any other manufacturer to add this one feature.
And let's look at the iSuppli Apple TV breakdown
Ibex Peak (5 Series) and Cougar Point (6 Series) have USB 3.0 via external controllers that are not onboard the PCH hardware itself. What are you trying to prove? ThunderBolt will not be on the Panther Point PCH so that means a much higher BOM getting the controller onboard compared to USB 3.0 or eSATA. Not to mention the PCI SIG's own external PCIe connector for 2013.
AMD is the first vendor out with USB 3.0 support on the Hudson FCH. That is 4 USB 3.0 ports without paying a dime beyond the FCH on your board.
It still did not prevent Intel's much delayed second wave of X58 from including USB 3.0. The same with the Intel 6 Series boards as well.
Intel is paying others to implement USB 3.0 on their own boards.
Look, all this was, was a reply to this: "Yes, Intel motherboards have USB 3.0" and your question what I was trying to prove.
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/chipsets.jpg
Intel has USB 3.0. They are not providing the external controllers nor is it built into the PCH at this time.
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So many flames here. LOL.
But I wonder if most of these flamers realize that Thunderbolt is an Intel technology.
Apple has nothing to do with it other than being one of the first to include them in their products.
The Thunderbolt trademark is held exclusively by Intel, Apple just registered it for them in a few countries and will be transferring them to Intel when it's all said and done.
So many flames here. LOL.
But I wonder if most of these flamers realize that Thunderbolt is an Intel technology.
Apple has nothing to do with it other than being one of the first to include them in their products.
The Thunderbolt trademark is held exclusively by Intel, Apple just registered it for them in a few countries and will be transferring them to Intel when it's all said and done.
If I can get an eSATA -> TBolt adapter, I'd be pretty psyched at just having that. I have a 10tb enclosure that is eSATA and no plans to get rid of it, let alone spend 8 million dollars to replace with some overpriced TBolt-only option. Now that I have a new iMac with two TBolt ports, those adapters can't come soon enough.
I doubt you will be convinced even if I decided to dig up the specs. I won't of course because I don't need to convince you. You can do your own research.
Again, like I said it is a bus based technology that is polled to any device on the chain wether direct or through a HUB, and that's how daisy-chained devices work. If you don't believe it check for yourself or not. I don't care.
I can put a dumb HUB in bus sequence anywhere on the chain with other devices (on or off) and that is a fact. I have my setup this way. TB is a daisy-chained bus protocol that works just like FW or USB. Period. Even the video shows it daisy-chained and he mentions it that way. I bet if he thought he needed to prove it, he could have turned the disk off and the second would have continued to work. Of course he didn't because OSX would thrown a disk ejection error that could corrupt data. Even Lacie says the ports are past-thru. How much more does one need to know that TB functions as a regular daisy-chain.
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The ideal world: One port to rule them all. That's what thunderbolt is. There is literally no device that it can't support, and I see this as someday being the only port out there because of that, and with Intel's stated goal of 100GBit TB in the future, its capabilities will only increase. I think the majority of you are a bit short sighted on this. Many people couldn't see the value of an iPod when it first came out, but nothing like the iPod had ever been done before. Same can be said for TB. Give it time. I think it'll surprise you all.
From - http://www.intel.com/technology/io/thunderbolt/325136-001US_secured.pdf :
Correct me if I'm wrong, but "star" and "tree" equal "hub". No?
Didn't Apple learn from the Firewire debacle? There's a reason USB won over Firewire and it isn't because it's a better technology. Apple has to stop with these expensive licensing issues if they want their technologies to stick. And they talk about Blu-Ray being a "big bag of hurt..."
I agrre but but least it can be used as a display port.