This article also fails to mention that nearly all of the new line of Denon A/V Receivers carry AirPlay as a feature. Aside for the 2 extreme models, all are very affordable in the consumer electronics category.
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AirPlay and Thunderbolt May Be Limited to High-End Devices to Start
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FireWire debacle? FireWire lost? What are you talking about?
I use FireWire all the time. It's nowhere near as widespread as USB. But it works well, widely available, and definitely has its uses. There's no debacle and no one lost.
I'd expect USB 3 to take over USB 2, and thunderbolt to replace FireWire.
Only thing I am excited for with Thunderbolt is the possibility of external graphics cards for laptops.
Didn't Apple learn from the Firewire debacle? There's a reason USB won over Firewire and it isn't because it's a better technology. Apple has to stop with these expensive licensing issues if they want their technologies to stick. And they talk about Blu-Ray being a "big bag of hurt..."
What had they to learn? There's simply no way that TB will be an el-cheapo technology. TB is superior ... for a price. You also pay more for a a GeForce 580 GTX than for a GeForce 560.
And how could Apple make TB as cheap as USB?
1. it requires an extra controller on both the side of pc as device
2. there's virtually no market for it, besides in the pro(sumer) area, the area where apple is already over presented, and doesn't care about a hundred bucks more or less.
3. It's an all new technology. There're nearly no producers for cables, chipsets, devices so there doesn't exist a mass production of USB magnitude.
I presently have 5 USB devices connected to my MBA, plus 1 monitor, plus speakers...
That's a poor solution you propose there.
Citation needed.
10 Gb/s is not enough for anything better than currently already available in high-end 15"/17". Under four PCI-E 2.0 (16 Gb/s) lanes, there's no way you'll be able to run any GPU in the Mid to High end segment, and even with four lanes, you wouldn't max out the performance of the GPU by a long shot (at least 8 - 32 Gb/s - lanes, preferentially 16 - 64 Gb/s). So maybe when we get optical TB, we'll see decent external GPU's. But the PCI-E standard itself also evolves. PCI-E 3 is making it's way to the industry.
Thunderbolt isn't supposed to be a USB replacement. Why would we need a new port to plug keyboards and mice into? Thunderbolt is an expansion of PCIe outside of your computer, with DP coming along for the ride. Think of the things you'd normally put in a PCIe slot (i.e., video cards, capture cards, highspeed SSD arrays, etc.), that's what you'd use Thunderbolt for. More mass market examples would be docking stations, external hard drives and monitor docks. You're trying to make a race out of two products with two different goals in mind.
Quite frankly, USB 2.0 is USB 3.0s greatest competition. USB 3.0 is more expensive, the cables are thicker and less flexible, most devices don't need the extra speed it offers, and many of the ones that do would be better served by something like Thunderbolt. If USB 3.0 has so much momentum, why are virtually no smartphones, PMPs, mice, keyboards, printers, or cameras, etc. using it? And why do the few USB 3.0 flash drives available cost so much??? USB could very well become like Bluetooth, where most products are not using the latest standard.
Food for thought:
Apple's coming out with a new MBA. If they wanted to, they could create a docking station for it complete with bigger hard drive, optical drive, external graphics, USB and any other ports, all connected to the Air through a single (universal) Thunderbolt port. That might be pushing the boundaries of the current generation of Thunderbolt a bit (not enough bandwidth for a high end video card), but those are the sort of possibilities you can look forward to with a port of this nature.
PS: Macs will get USB 3.0 and PC's will get Thunderbolt with Intels next generation of chips, since Intel has announced native support for both. The two technologies are complementary.
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Gee....$1400 for the first wave of Thunderbolt drives? <sarcasm>Wow...what a great price </sarcasm>
Seriously though...other than the elite of the elite of the Mac professionals out there, who the heck spends $1400 on a hard drive? That's right...nobody.
Until TB has more offerings (like the hundreds of USB 3.0 drives currently) AS WELL AS PRICING (USB 3.0 drives are about $10 more expensive than their USB 2.0 counterparts by the same manufacturer), TB is going to be for the very select few in the business world. Mom and dad and sis aren't going to own $1400+ Mac computers and $1400+ TB drives.
Seriously though...other than the elite of the elite of the Mac professionals out there, who the heck spends $1400 on a hard drive? That's right...nobody.
Until TB has more offerings (like the hundreds of USB 3.0 drives currently) AS WELL AS PRICING (USB 3.0 drives are about $10 more expensive than their USB 2.0 counterparts by the same manufacturer), TB is going to be for the very select few in the business world. Mom and dad and sis aren't going to own $1400+ Mac computers and $1400+ TB drives.
the product they are showing is currently $1300 without TB
not every product with TB will be that high or anywhere near it
I do recall in one of the initial presentations discussions of a hub. From a technical perspective, hubs seem possible, but I can't imagine they can be done in a way that is in any way affordable, at least not for a couple years. I also think there would be severe technical limitations with any hub - for example, I don't know whether displays using displayport-over-thunderbolt would react very well.
Except that's all that vendors have been announcing for now. It really does seem TB is not headed to consumer tech soon.
And really, why would it ?
Good night sweet Thunderbolt. Great way to become a standard by using only higher end devices to start.
Anyway I don't care to have yet another interface technology, USB 3 is fine by me and is at least backwards compatible.
Anyway I don't care to have yet another interface technology, USB 3 is fine by me and is at least backwards compatible.
Conversely, it makes for a real simple docking solution for people like me who use their laptop as a desktop to. I don't change my printer often, I unhook my computer from the monitor/keyboard/mouse/backup hard drive every week.
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Exactly. I thought Apple was open-sourcing the AirPlay protocol. That would ensure it's rapid adoption.
As for Thunderbolt, it may simply be the new FireWire, adopted by pros and ignored by the average consumer (who doesn't care if USB3 is slower than Thunderbolt).
baleensavage said:Didn't Apple learn from the Firewire debacle? There's a reason USB won over Firewire and it isn't because it's a better technology. Apple has to stop with these expensive licensing issues if they want their technologies to stick. And they talk about Blu-Ray being a "big bag of hurt..."
Exactly. I thought Apple was open-sourcing the AirPlay protocol. That would ensure it's rapid adoption.
As for Thunderbolt, it may simply be the new FireWire, adopted by pros and ignored by the average consumer (who doesn't care if USB3 is slower than Thunderbolt).
Everybody knows that Apple products cost more. If I purchase an Apple computer and it has USB technology in it then it should be USB 3.0 by now. People keep saying it will be available with the next generation, but I have seen it (3.0) on current PC laptops? If Apple is going to charge us more, then we should be getting more! I am glad that TB is here. It is an exciting development, but I also want USB 3.0.
For laughs I checked out intel's business (HW dev) site to see if there were any TB datasheets. Nope, zip, nada. Just a placeholder for Light Peak, but nothing about TB (see for yourself at ark.intel.com)
The Apple implementation of the Thunderbolt chipset is *invisible* in google.
This does not bode well for the standard if developers can't get access to the datasheets.
http://communities.intel.com/thread/19890?wapkw=(thunderbolt)
Dev kit available end of Q2 2011.
I wonder what the real deal is behind Thunderbolt. Intel don't seem keen on it.
Did Intel develop Light Peak and Apple force them to make an electrical version of it with a view to basically making an iMac/MBP "iPhone connector"?
Apple must have become bullish after years of making proprietary connectors (ACD, NuBus), that the iPhone connector finally took off and is almost a de facto standard. Perhaps they imagine that peripheral makers will similarly flock around TB.
Heck I'm holding off on a MBA because TB might be incorporated, along with the aspiration that maybe a TB to FW might emerge at an affordable price - because the superior-in-every-way-except-market-presence lack of FW is limiting when considering and MBA as a sole computer.
Following the TB hype, I'm becoming really sceptical - and manufacturers talking about *significant* cost premiums for TB - I'm going to predict white elephant status.
Enclosure for what? If it's just a simple HDD then USB 3.0 would suffice (no benefits from Thunderbolt - just higher price). If it's SSD in RAID configuration (the only device that would benefit from Thunderbolt compared to USB 3.0) then it's price would be high anyways. But who will need those SSD/RAID monsters. Professional FCP users? Well, they all are switching to AVID anyways (we all know why).
www.notebookreview.com
About half of the last 10 reviewed laptops have USB3, the of the remaining 4 have eSata/USB2 ports.
All technology that you can buy peripherals for.
A high speed interface in the hand is worth two in the bush...
I see no reason a citation is needed. Every device that can be daisy-chained will come with a HUB onboard, just as Firewire devices do now. A daisy-chain TB device will do the same. In fact, all the manufacturers have stated they will offer pass-through TB ports (2 TB ports). HUBs are implied to daisy-chaining. Powered HUBs, like all Firewire and USB HUBs before, will quickly join the TB party.
The chain might need to be terminated at the display, but I doubt it, since laptops were the first to get these TB ports. And I'll bet the new Apple Cinema displays will have a TB HUB built into it.
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Wrong because Intel is behind this or should I say both technologies, personally you can't beat USB 3 for cheap, really cheap mass comsumption, where thunderbolt is only in its first of many upgrades. Also Apple is not the same company of the past, and in the PC world things can be so slow to change just look how those old ports are still around even in high end build your self motherboards.
Talking about you PS/2 mouse port.
PC of course will drool over how low can we go, so USB 3 should be fine for them. No one cares about better tech when their laptop cost 500 dollars. My iPad cost more than that.
But really do you think thunderbolt is really needed in a Mac mini?
Or do you think the iPad/iPhone needs it when we all really want to just get rid of even syncing anything with wires, I don't but that just for me.
High end or not if you need it I see no issue with Mac users which tend to have much more expendable capital getting it. I for one like Thunderbolt speed but Airplay is my LOVE. I want it everywhere, I want it in my car I want it in my Pacemaker
when I am 100 I even want it with my 400 dollar coffee maker. Nothing says F you PC world than coffee made to perfection in 45 second as I type this in my ipad 2 white as I listen to Genesis on Airplay. or for us special people, you know who I am talking about
I give you perfection http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/dining/23coff.html because Mac people are worth it!Wrong because Intel is behind this or should I say both technologies, personally you can't beat USB 3 for cheap, really cheap mass comsumption, where thunderbolt is only in its first of many upgrades. Also Apple is not the same company of the past, and in the PC world things can be so slow to change just look how those old ports are still around even in high end build your self motherboards.
Talking about you PS/2 mouse port.
PC of course will drool over how low can we go, so USB 3 should be fine for them. No one cares about better tech when their laptop cost 500 dollars. My iPad cost more than that.
But really do you think thunderbolt is really needed in a Mac mini?
Or do you think the iPad/iPhone needs it when we all really want to just get rid of even syncing anything with wires, I don't but that just for me.
High end or not if you need it I see no issue with Mac users which tend to have much more expendable capital getting it. I for one like Thunderbolt speed but Airplay is my LOVE. I want it everywhere, I want it in my car I want it in my Pacemaker
or for us special people, you know who I am talking about
The problem is not Thunderbolt. The problem is that Apple does not do USB 3.0. You may dream as much as you want about your Mac-size wealth. In reality with Thunderbolt and without USB 3.0 it's the Mac users who deserve a pity from PC side.
http://www.avidid.com/
Really they are all tagging them selves with these, dude they are so cool no more need to worry about getting lost.