AirPods and Apple Watch Called 'Underpriced' to Bring New Users Into Apple Ecosystem

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. Defthand macrumors 6502

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    #326
    The appeal of Apple's products is superficial today. People are excited by the sexy looks of the hardware, and appreciate the effortlessness of the ecosystem. The brand has de-evolved philosophically. It was once the brand of academia and creatives—people who inspired Apple's slogan "Think Different". Now it is a brand for consumers like you, whose collective uses are trivial. You're more interested in what colors the product comes in, then how it can serve the humanities.

    Apple may have reached its pinnacle already—but not as its founder imagined. Jobs would not have been satisfied with marketshare alone. He criticized the "lack of taste/class" that mass appeal brands demonstrated. You're effectively dismissing his vision while embracing the brand he created.

    The problem with being number one with consumers, is that consumers aren't loyal. Eventually, another shiny fad will distract them. Those who aren't number one, will always try harder to improve, and please.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 18, 2017 ---
    Perhaps you should have told Steve Jobs the same when he created those certain things.

    Frankly, it's those who know the least about Apple's products, that regard it as a status symbol and want it for that reason.
     
  2. Michael Goff macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

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    #327
    Steve Jobs created things, and that made him great. You can't buy greatness, nor does buying something make you great. Period. End of story.
     
  3. Abazigal macrumors 604

    Abazigal

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    #328
    Shrugs.

    I'm not the one here whining and griping about Macs.
     
  4. Defthand macrumors 6502

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    #329
    Agree with everything but your first conclusion. Jobs wasn't great because he "created things". He was respected for creating great things that enabled likeminded persons to create great things too. No one recalls who invented Emoji.
     
  5. Michael Goff macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

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    #330
    You've got me in that one.
     
  6. MagnusVonMagnum macrumors 601

    MagnusVonMagnum

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    #331
    You're right. It bothers me enough to rant for one reason. I'm tired of watching a world around me filled with people that let corporate shills control their lives with inferior crap peddled to them because they know they'll buy it anyway. I'm tired of watching people playing with their iPhones instead of getting out and socializing with real people (or worse yet swerving all over the road). I'm tired of kids playing with their phones when they should be learning in school so they can have a better job than begging corporations to give them $15 for a burger flopping job that shouldn't be more than a way to help pay for college. Corporations are controlling this country and most of the planet along with some very evil people and some boys whose daddy gave their their start with a few million bucks that the rest of us never got. So when I see a POS being sold for $109 more than it's worth I call it what it is, hoping that a few of you who think they're great will see them for what they are and go find a better product because this thing is a profit making RIP-OFF. Just because it says "Apple" on it doesn't mean it's the best product, let alone a good deal. This article in particular is grating because that Forbes moron thinks they're too cheap.

    Not really. I'm just making the point against the statement that I'm actually just upset I can't afford them. Money isn't everything and I've got plenty of other issues to deal with, some of which I wouldn't wish on anyone. But if I have any money it's because I went to school, made an actual effort to get good grades instead of screwing off which got me a scholarship and then I got a couple of degrees in a tech field and got a good paying job. I didn't beg anyone for anything and I didn't for one moment consider my job at Best Buy selling computers while I went to college my new career (unlike many of my co-workers who were still working there 15 years later).
     
  7. Suckfest 9001, Mar 18, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017

    Suckfest 9001 macrumors 6502a

    Suckfest 9001

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    #332
    > "Not really"
    > proceeds to write a paragraph bragging about academic accomplishments and how much better he is than coworkers
     
  8. MagnusVonMagnum macrumors 601

    MagnusVonMagnum

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    #333

    Better? Better depends on your point-of-view. Some people apparently enjoy working at McDonalds or they wouldn't be marching for $15 to keep that job they apparently love so much.

    Well Mr. (or is it Ms/Mrs?) Suckfest, you go ahead and enjoy those Airpods, then. ;)

    Given the strong defense of these boutique items by some on here, maybe it is a good time to buy more Apple stock. Perhaps Mr. Cook is right to head Apple in this direction. Perhaps next we can get an Apple Toaster or even an Apple Microwave that you can control from your iPhone for 5x the going price of a conventional unit. Too bad when it gets hacked and burns down your house, but such is the price of being one of the Elite Apple Core. :)
     
  9. Abazigal macrumors 604

    Abazigal

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    #334
    Has it occurred to you that other people might find value in the airpods that you don't? That's precisely why they buy it, because it's a great product to them.

    So the person I am replying to on Macrumours right now isn't a real person?

    I learnt to tie a tie by watching a video on YouTube. In fact, I built up my command of the English language by debating with people in forums such as GiTP. It's amazing what you can learn on the internet these days.

    I own the airpods. I use them every day. I think they are great and worth every cent I paid.

    I think the problem here is you. You want what Apple will not give, and can't seem to wrap your head around the possibility that other people could have differing tastes and preferences from yourself.

    This is called cognitive dissonance, which usually goes somewhere along this line.

    1) I don't like something.
    2) Someone else likes that something.
    3) I can't be wrong.
    4) Therefore, that someone else must be wrong.

    Companies like Apple aren't the problem here. You are.

    Yay. And I worked hard for my paycheck and all my Apple products are paid for with my hard earned money as well.

    You spend your money your way, and I do likewise, and everyone's happy.
     
  10. bingeciren macrumors 6502a

    bingeciren

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    #335
    This is probably the most perplexing valid point. Cook may be an ideal CEO for shareholders at the expense of Apple's original values.
     
  11. Abazigal macrumors 604

    Abazigal

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    #336
    Remind me what Apple's original values are again?
     
  12. bingeciren macrumors 6502a

    bingeciren

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    #337
    Culmination of many things but certainly not placing form over function, taking features away and calling it progress, placing profit ahead of products.

    Apple is simply becoming a phone and tablet company.
     
  13. Abazigal macrumors 604

    Abazigal

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    #338
    I seem to recall a certain MacBook Air being released in 2008 under Steve Job's watch...

    Form over function? Check.
    Taking features away and calling it progress? Check.
    And it certainly wasn't cheap either.

    Not sure what has changed here...
     
  14. bingeciren macrumors 6502a

    bingeciren

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    #339
    That was an entirely new product. It is unfair to compare it against the already existing MacBooks at that time. That product improved with every iteration from then on and added features, performance and kept its price about the same while doing so.

    These days it's just the opposite. MacBook 12" replacing Air is no better than its predecessor, certainly not keeping its price about equal and taking a ton of features like ports and CPU performance. Same can be said for the new MacBook line.

    The Gen-2 Magic Mouse, Keyboard & Trackpad have magically got a 50% price boost while featuring built-in rechargeable batteries, which I don't find any more convenient than swapping charged batteries and continue to work. With the Mouse can't even continue to work because the charge connector is at the bottom. Great progress that deserves a medal for Ive.

    Meanwhile we have disappearing products like Airport Modems, Mac Mini, Cinema Display and the future of the Mac Pro is dubious. Every new MacBook is becoming glued shut and components soldered for non-upgradeability.

    Think Different and Just Works are the phrases of the past. Now they "boldly" take things away, increase prices and kill products that don't greatly contribute to the revenue even if they are liked and sought out by traditional Apple users.
     
  15. potatis, Mar 19, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017

    potatis macrumors 6502a

    potatis

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    Dec 9, 2006
    #340
    That's probably the point, a front connector on the mouse would've been the obvious design choice, but changed. Built-in batteries means it'll be less attractive to buy used pheriperals as they will have less charge left. So you're eventually going to get fed up with charging the mouse and buy a new one - or a trackpad to use simultaneously.
     
  16. Abazigal macrumors 604

    Abazigal

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    Singapore
    #341
    The MacBooks and MacBook pros are fairly new product categories as well. Who is to say the same thing won't happen to them?

    The MacBook has a Retina display while being thinner and lighter than even the MacBook Air.

    This is classic Apple having the audacity to tell me to my face "We believe that this one or two features is more valuable than all these other features combined."

    I have personally found it quite the hassle to keep my batteries recharged.

    And what does this have to do with Apple being less creative? Their products were never perfect to begin with. The first gen iPad was equally glued down and had just 256 MBP of ram, meaning it was limited to iOS 5.1 (the iPad 2 would be supported to iOS 9).

    I believe that Apple still wants to make great products. They glue and solder their parts in because this allows for a thinner and light product and to them, a thinner and lighter product is a better product.

    The two have nothing in common with each other.

    I am looking at my Apple Pencil and Apple Watch and airpods and they really do "just work" for me, and I find their design really clever as well.

    It is a pity that certain products are being discontinued, but I don't think that should be confused with Apple losing the plot.
     
  17. LordVic macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Location:
    Ontario
    #342
    Steve Job's believed that making the best product possible, would result in the money coming in automatically. That you priced things accordingly and that you provided the value in the product first as the primary motivation for the decision making of tyhe product.

    Tim Cook's CEO is very different. it's "Lets make the product fit into our profit / business decisions first". It's a dangerous road to take. Microsoft went down that route under Balmer, and while Microsoft was insanely profitable under Ballmer, nobody, not even Microsoft fanboys look back at those days happily.

    Whenever any company starts catering to providing business profits first, instead of great products first, Products end up suffering when those margins need to be maintained in maturing markets.


    A great prime example of this is Dell. When Dell went public and the products had to start putting business and profit margins first to appease wall street investors, Dell's product quality tanked. (hence the reputation they earned). Michael Dell saw this, bought back and went private again. Now he can make the products he believes people want and not give a crap about wallstreet investors. he can make products that are only 5% margin, if he thinks he can seel enough to be profitable and be happy. He can make loss leaders if it brings into the eco-system. And since then, Dell's product reliability, quality, and brand have jumped back into the forefront. Unlike many of h is other competitors.

    THe computer industry is a many headest beast. I'm not going to sit here and say appealing to the mass consumer industry is a bad thing. But you cannot ignore in the computer industry that technology is not driven by the consumer industry, it's driven by the "professionals" who push the boundaries of technologies we have today, and strive for greater, more powerful future tech. these are the people who will buy tomorrow no matter what comes out because they always need faster, better, stronger. The consumer who is fine today on Facebook class computer is going to go wherever is popular. and popularity is fickle and can change tomorrow.

    it was the Professionals during the 90's and early 00's who stuck with Apple for what they could deliver. Now Apple is only delivering products for the consumer, not for those people who would be loyal.

    I don't think Apple is doomed. But I also think they've become 90's Microsoft (parity wise). a lot of bloat. A lot of things that don't make sense, and a lot of making decisions for money reasons instead of quality reasons.
     
  18. bingeciren, Mar 19, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017

    bingeciren macrumors 6502a

    bingeciren

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    #343
    I admit that you have some valid points. My Watch, Apple Pencil and iPads and even my MacBook 12" just work for me as well.

    I cannot agree charging batteries being a hassle however. I have 8 batteries and a 4 slot battery charger. 4 stays in the charger and the other 4 in the keyboard plus the trackpad. When the time comes to replace one, it's a 2 second swap.

    And I'm still rather unhappy to see some products disappearing.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 19, 2017 ---
    You said what I meant to say very nicely and summed up my feelings towards Apple.
     
  19. LordVic macrumors 68040

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    Location:
    Ontario
    #344
    Every new product under Tim Cook has not improved or gotten "better" from a spec perspective.

    that might be fine in fashion industry, or other industries where form is more important than function,

    but at the end of the day, in the computer industry, the very point of "upgrade" is to improve compute power or inefficiencies. you can go down the entire lineup of Apple products, and under Mr Cook, most have gotten no significant updates, or in some cases, have actually had the "function" decreased. Sometimes to fit into forms that make no sense for the purpose, or sometimes just for the absolute sake of it.

    The iMac, got marginally thinner, for a desktop computer, where 5mm difference of a tappered edge isn't going to make a difference in any way. Except, where now the iMac's are unable to cool themselves effeciently or properly, leading to Apple's more powerful desktop using a combination of mobile parts and thermally throttled parts.

    the Mac Mini went from a really nice, small form factor quad core computer with a little bit of expandibility. To a all soldered, dual core. IN the same form factor.

    the Mac Pro, which, was always favoured for it's computer power and scalability, became another small form factor computer with zero upgrade paths. no scalability and then being ignored for 4 years.

    the MacBook Air saw very little update and is fundamentally the same machine it was in 2011. showcasing 2011 screen tech! and instead of just upgrading the screen, they came up with the next point

    THe MacBook. a weaker, slower, less overall useful computer, that sells for significantly higher featuring the only feature that the MBA was missing. The Display. Forcing users to use either 2011 based display technology, or spend up to $500 more, just for a better display, while potentially sacrificing everything else.

    MacBook Pro. Same as the Mac Pro. sacrifice of computer power, scalability and expandibility, for "thinness". not a bad computer. But not worth $500 more than the previous models that offered a good trade off of dependability, scalability and compute power. All are far more important than "thin" to those who base their livlihood on computer power.


    Even the watch 2.0 didn't add anything other than a new price tag to the ultimate experience.

    This behavior continues across the product lineup



    And yet. Apple has increased prices across the board. This stinks of a leadership group that is aiming for profit margins first and foremost before quality, and a leaderhip who doesn't understand the nature of the industry they were once excellent in.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 19, 2017 ---
    Neither of those are new categories.
    The Macbooks are "thin and lights", and yes, APple managed to shave a few more MM's off, it doesn't make it a new category. This category has existed since the 00's. While Apple might have been the Ultrabook pioneer, they were not the first, nor nearly even close to the first in the ultra portable or thin and light market. SO apple being newish to it, doesn't make them new categories.

    And Laptops were "pro" before Apple named anything "pro". Apple's first ever laptops were aimed at their Pro crowd. Most laptops until the utlrabook crowd was aimed at professionals and businesses, Not consumers. The Pro category has existed since day 1 in the computer world.

    This isn't APple inventing new categories. THis is apple coming into existing categories and telling everyone they invented them so they know whats best for them. i's untrue, and it's pathetic.

    These are not bad products. But these are not the products you have allowed yourself to believe they are. Again, I'm always happy that they make products and you are able to use them in great and interesting ways. That doesn't change the facts about what they are and how they fit into the rest of the world. your view is very VERY myopic and not based on the actual reality outside of how you use the products.

    While I do to, I no longer thin that "Make great products" is their #1 motivation. I think it's very much "If th e product is profitable, it's a great product". WHich is absolutely crazy. Profitability and popularity don't equal quality. And eventually you have to start sacrificing quality to keep profit while markets mature and profits for that market decline (ALL maturing markets are forced to work on low margins due to high competition)

    Apple still aims to make great products, as long as they're also greatly profitable. it's a huge change in their direction while under Cook.
     
  20. Suckfest 9001 macrumors 6502a

    Suckfest 9001

    Joined:
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    Canada
    #345
    I don't have AirPods...................

    lol this guy
     
  21. LordVic, Mar 19, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017

    LordVic macrumors 68040

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    #346
    I'm not sure you recognize the irony in your own post.

    Which could also easily read as

    1) I like something.
    2) Someone else doesn't likes that something.
    3) I can't be wrong.
    4) Therefore, that someone else must be wrong

    Which a lot of your posts do whether you see it or not
    --- Post Merged, Mar 19, 2017 ---
    You are also forgetting that the first generation of the MacBook Air was relatively considered a flop.

    It wasn't until a redesign. Adding ports and features, new CPU to bring better power and usability and a significant price cut, did the MacBook Air start flying off shelves.



    Your opinion is clouded on false data. And this seems to be true on a lot. You sound new to the apple ecosystem. It's amazing and awesome it works for you. But you fail to grasp you're not the rest of the world, and many of what you believe to be true as facts of history are wrong. Your logic is sound, you've just based the opinion you have on faulty data from your inexperienced position.
     
  22. Abazigal macrumors 604

    Abazigal

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Singapore
    #347
    There's no irony. We are each free to like or dislike something. Just don't presume to speak for me or the others like me.

    The difference here is that the critics here are attempting to pass off their own opinions as being representative of the masses. I have always found it comically ironic when people say Apple "needs to" do something like this or it’s "not innovating anymore" but then it turns out the result isn’t something most people end up wanting anyways.

    For example, just because someone can't use his iPad for his definition of "work" doesn't mean the iPad can't be used for work at all. Hate on it all they way. Just make sure they make it a point to emphasise that it doesn't work "for them and themselves only", and that their experiences and opinions aren't indicative of everyone's in general.

    Conversely, while I do use my iPad extensively in my classroom, I know that my use case doesn't necessarily extend to everyone, and so I won't go around claiming that the iPad is a laptop replacement for everyone, just that it's good enough to replace my laptop for about 80% of use cases, and I am more than willing to share my experience with using the iPad for those inclined to learn. I don't claim the Airpods is awesome for everyone, just that it has been amazing for me and I enjoy using it very much.

    That's the distinction.

    And the funny thing about all these general statements is that I only need to show that I like my Apple products to make their whole argument fall apart.
     
  23. hyelton macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 23, 2015
    #348
    Apple Watch now starts at $269 for a series 1 model? That's OVERPRICED! walmarts and Sam club stores have had them on clearance for $79-$119 for the past week or so lol
     
  24. admob71 macrumors 6502a

    admob71

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    #349
    Jobs didn't create anything, know your history...
     
  25. I7guy macrumors G4

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    What Exit?/Saguaro Country
    #350
    It's not my opinion that Tim Cook operates the way you describe. He released an iphone 6, something Steve Jobs had resisted, send apple's worth into the stratosphere. He essentially caused a reinnovation of the underpinnings of smartphones by releasing 64 bit with touch id in the 5s. To deny any CEOs fiduciary responsibility is not realistic. As far as Ballmer goes, it's both a great thing and not so great thing what he did for Microsoft, without him Microsoft could have been on a very different and possibly not so great path.
     

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