AirPort Express with AirTunes

[iChan]

May extend non airport networks

Why Apple's Airport Express May Unofficially Extend Non-Airport Networks

Even though Apple is claiming on their website that the new Airport Express can only act as a network range extender (signal repeater) with other Airport devices (look at the bottom of this page), WiFi Networking News's Glenn Fleishman explains why the Airport Express may just work with some non-Apple devices after all:


Wireless Distribution System (WDS) is a part of the 802.11 spec all the way back to IEEE 802.11b-1999. However, it was never made part of the Wi-Fi certification standard.


In WDS, each Wi-Fi gateway acts essentially like a port on an Ethernet switch. They broadcast information to each other about what adapters are available on their particular segments. If a packet arrives that requires a hop, it's repackaged and delivered to the right "port" or wireless gateways.


That is, if client A is attached to Base Station Z and client B is attached to Base Station Y, both Y and Z known about the clients on themselves and others. Packets flow from to A to Z, which repackages the packets using a WDS header, sends them to Y, which unwraps them and presents to them B as if they originated from themselves, more or less.


Because WDS isn't certified with Wi-Fi, no manufacturer wants to promise that their idiosyncratic version will work with anyone else's. However, because most of the 802.11g gear out there remains Broadcom based, the WDS implementation should be pretty similar.


Buffalo and Apple's equipment often works together, for instance. Linksys has chosen to use WDS as an either/or: either its WRT54G (for example) is a bridge or it's an access point. Apple and Buffalo allow either/and/or: you can make a base station a bridge (for Ethernet connected devices), a gateway, or a bridge and gateway.

from gizmodo.com

 

[pjtro2]

still no sign of this in the australian apple store

all over the front page - they're probably bickering as to how much to 'rip us off'...

US129 = AUD185. so my guess is AUD249...? looks like i'll be buying from ebay!

That was my exact calculation as well... Looking at the cost of an AExtreme card: US$99 = AUD$199
it would work out to be around AUD$250 or AUD$260
- which kinda sucks given that the exchange rate is so much better (for us) than it was 12 months ago.

Then there's the time delay to consider as well.. Fingers crossed it will be available here sooner rather than later (hello ipod mini) ...

 

[Finiksa]

ah now, in fairness, this is getting silly. That IS what proximity is, it senses your presence, proximity is "the property of being close together" (dictionary.com).

the product literature itself states that it has a proximity sensor... what mor edo you want?

Sorry I'm going by the Oxford definition.

prox·im·i·ty n
closeness in space or time​

Notice the -ness suffix indicating degrees of distance.

I want it to use something more intelligent than "no Bluetooth signal" to activate. Say a signal strength preference option, set it at 25% and it (de)activates at about 2.5 meters. Now that would be a real proximity sensor, but you're right I am being pedantic

 

[Finiksa]

the price is pretty sweet

Yeah, they're practically giving them away at that price.

I may as well get an MD and an iPod. If go for the low end iPod I could also get an Airport Express while I'm at it.

So much gizmo shopping… must not drool.

 

[iChan]

amazing how quick this thread died.

guess the overall consesus for this product is two big thumbs up.

 

[gotohamish]

I've read a lot of good, informative posts on this thread, and have one more question, since it looks like I can't extent my linksys network.

We take out internet wirelessly, from our building over the road. It picks up on a CRT-iMac by the window at 4 bars, but only 1 or 2 bars on our laptops. So naturally, an extender would be perfect. So I have two Q's:

1) Can we pick up the wireless on the iMac, as we do now, and then turn on Internet Sharing through Ethernet, and plug into a Airport Express? Thus extending the network, correct?

2) If not, what device do I need to extend the network from our other building?

Thanks
H

 

[deckmoney]

Apple Developing Own Remote?

In response to everyone asking about a remote, I would recommend ATI's Remote Wonder...it works on RF, so you can be anywhere in your house and still use it. However, according to a recent report it seems that Apple may be developing their own remote. For more info, read this article that I posted: http://macweb.ciu10.com/

Also of interest is that iTunes 4.6 should be released by the end of today.

 

[aarond12]

Hey Apple! Do this and I'll buy one.

I've already got a wireless set up in my house, and I'm glad that the new Airport Express can work as a bridge. Now, if you make a firmware upgrade that allows wireless-to-Ethernet bridging, so I can plug my PS2's Ethernet connection into the Airport Express, I will be a very, VERY happy man.

You would laugh if you saw my current setup (which works quite nicely, thank you): My DSL modem is connected to my Linksys wireless router via Ethernet (using PPPoE). My iMac flat panel is connected to the Linksys router via Airport. My PS2 is connected to my iMac via a cross-over Ethernet cable, sharing the Airport connection using Internet Connection Sharing.

-Aaron-

 

[jsw]

Sorry I'm going by the Oxford definition.

prox·im·i·ty n
closeness in space or time​

Notice the -ness suffix indicating degrees of distance.

I want it to use something more intelligent than "no Bluetooth signal" to activate. Say a signal strength preference option, set it at 25% and it (de)activates at about 2.5 meters. Now that would be a real proximity sensor, but you're right I am being pedantic

I don't want to enter into this side thread, but my fingers insist on typing, and I'm powerless to resist.

Finiksa is right. Salling Clicker does not detect proximity, regardless of what the ad says (not that marketing literature ever tells anything but the absolute truth...). It simply understands whether or not a particular Bluetooth device is currently visible to the Mac. That device might be 30 feet away and "seen", or a foot away and unseen, due either to something blocking the signal or to one of the many Bluetooth mixups that cause it to be a somewhat imperfect standard as currently implemented (although it's getting better).

So it doesn't even necessarily detect presence. It detects a connection.

 

[jsw]

ah now, in fairness, this is getting silly. That IS what proximity is, it senses your presence, proximity is "the property of being close together" (dictionary.com).

the product literature itself states that it has a proximity sensor... what mor edo you want?

Damn these dancing fingers.

iChan is also right in that, at least in common use by makers of proximity sensors, "proximity" is a Boolean - something's either "proximate" or not. It is not, at least in standard usage, a variable ("more proximate" vs. "less proximate").

 

[ingenious]

Hey, is this a leak or a misprint?

To play your iTunes music, simply open iTunes 4.6.

I go to the iTunes website and it says that the current version is still 4.5?! What do you think? Misprint?!?!


Anyway, I think that Airport Express is awesome! What an awesome idea! I may consider one of these so I can use real speakers, not these computer ones.... yuck.

 

[jsw]

Hey, is this a leak or a misprint?



I go to the iTunes website and it says that the current version is still 4.5?! What do you think? Misprint?!?!


Anyway, I think that Airport Express is awesome! What an awesome idea! I may consider one of these so I can use real speakers, not these computer ones.... yuck.

4.6 will be released shortly (end of the week? I forget - but soon).

Just out of curiosity, why can't you use real speakers now?

 

[appleguy]

Hey, is this a leak or a misprint?



I go to the iTunes website and it says that the current version is still 4.5?! What do you think? Misprint?!?!


Anyway, I think that Airport Express is awesome! What an awesome idea! I may consider one of these so I can use real speakers, not these computer ones.... yuck.

If you read... it did say that 4.6 will be released later today.

 

[crumbz]

Shipping Date?

I ordered my Airport Express this morning and the Apple Store now shows me am expected ship date of 07/15/04. A month away?

 

[Doctor Q]

Did you read the article I posted? It was from MacWorld...

It was posted a couple of hours and 80-something posts before you did rdowns, by starboard. Then I reported some of what the article said. Then you posted your link to it AND quoted from it. Then you repeated some of it again. I think people who haven't read it by now will just have to manage without our help!

 

[EvilSasquatch]

Observation and question

First, I am surprised that no one (so far as I have seen) has commented on the fact that the Apple Express splash page reads "Mac + PC"....

Does this really make sense as a product to market to PC users right now? Sure, the present base stations support PC but I can't recall ever seeing any big blue letters on base station pages proudly proclaiming "+PC". Of course, Express supports iTunes, which a lot of PC users have. And 99.9% of PC iTunes users would have ipods. But still it doesn't seem like something that is going to set the PC world on fire, standing on its own.

In fact it only really makes sense to me as a product for PC users when used along with a wi-fi equipped iPod - so my prediction is wi-fi iPods in the very near future. I mean, what could or would possibly prevent Apple from bringing these out very shortly? The technology doesn't seem difficult, since a Tungsten C is about the same size as an iPod and it has .11b.

Second, my question.

How does the digital audio out work? I can only see one jack, which looks like a 1/8". Don't tell me it goes digital/analog/digital?

Thanks

 

[zombocom]

Airport Express <-> Snow Base Station - What is one to do?

So, I have a snow base station. It is networking my laptop and desktop. My desktop is hosting our family website. If I were to get rid of the base station and just use the Airport Express, what software would I be using to network my computers, and open ports to allow for the internet services in the Sharing panel (since I'm currently using the Base Station Admin.)?

Now, at first it doesn't seem logical to me to sell the Base station -- even just for the fact that I would get nothing for it. However, since it isn't compatible with the Airport Express - as far as extending network reception, much less creating a network, then it kind of doesn't maximize the benefits of having both either.

So, is the only option for someone like me to sell my snow base station and buy an extreme base station, and then an airport express? How do you all feel about buying a Base station extreme off of eBay? Or would you not risk it? Especially considering that it may be a pain finding out whether or not the base station (extreme) being sold is the one with or without the antenna port & the modem port - neither of which I would need.

Oh the dilemma's of new technology...

I can't wait for the WWDC...

 

[jameshays1]

multiple streams

Looks like you can only select one source at a time from the pics. It would be nice to be able to purchase two or three of these things and have the same music going in several rooms at the same time.

 

[appleguy]

Looks like you can only select one source at a time from the pics. It would be nice to be able to purchase two or three of these things and have the same music going in several rooms at the same time.

Or you can just turn the volume up on the one.

 

[wPod]

i want one i want one i want one i want one i want one i want one i want one. . . . oh yeah, did i mention i want one!
i have been wanting a device like this (to play iTunes to my stereo wirelessly) and now apple is making one MUCH cheaper than the semi-working ones that are on the market now!!! i cant wait till they come out!!!

 

[WM.]

You cannot connect the XBox into the Airport Express because there are no ethernet LAN ports on it to do so. There is just a WAN port where you connect your internet connection to and then it transmits the signal wirelessly from there.

Well, it's not just a WAN port; it can act as a LAN port if you plug it into a LAN (and, actually, so can the WAN port on the Extreme base stations). This is really bringing us back to the days of the graphite base station, which also had only one Ethernet port (and was more than twice the price of the Express...).

Anyway, as for the whole console question, even with an Extreme base station that has both "LAN" and "WAN" ports, you still can't give your wired-only console access to a wireless network. You just plain need a different product.

Perhaps the best way to explain this is to say that you can only have one AirPort base station that provides any Ethernet functionality on a given wireless network.

*sigh*

Oh, and maybe I shouldn't be so adamant that you can only only only wirelessly extend AirPort networks with the AP Express. It sounds like there's a fair chance that it'll work with any Broadcom-based network. But you're guaranteed that it'll work with Apple. I guess that's how they get us to shell out all that dough.

WM

 

[WM.]

So, I have a snow base station. It is networking my laptop and desktop. My desktop is hosting our family website. If I were to get rid of the base station and just use the Airport Express, what software would I be using to network my computers, and open ports to allow for the internet services in the Sharing panel (since I'm currently using the Base Station Admin.)?

You'll still use the AirPort Admin Utility. It's unclear at this point what kind of support the AP Express will have for port mapping and things like that.

Now, at first it doesn't seem logical to me to sell the Base station -- even just for the fact that I would get nothing for it. However, since it isn't compatible with the Airport Express - as far as extending network reception, much less creating a network, then it kind of doesn't maximize the benefits of having both either.

Well, that's not entirely true. If you connect the base stations via Ethernet (through a hub or a switch or whatever), you can extend the network. Just like if you had another snow base station (or an Extreme base station and your existing snow one).

HTH
WM

 

[WM.]

I've read a lot of good, informative posts on this thread, and have one more question, since it looks like I can't extent my linksys network.

Weellll...I guess it depends. I learned something in this thread too: WDS isn't necessarily as brand-specific as I thought. But I wouldn't buy an AP Express without knowing pretty well that it would work with my network (i.e. WAIT to buy it until other people have tried to extend networks similar/identical to yours).

We take out internet wirelessly,

Heh. Like "we take our coffee black", but with the whole networking...um...yeah.

from our building over the road. It picks up on a CRT-iMac by the window at 4 bars, but only 1 or 2 bars on our laptops. So naturally, an extender would be perfect. So I have two Q's:

1) Can we pick up the wireless on the iMac, as we do now, and then turn on Internet Sharing through Ethernet, and plug into a Airport Express? Thus extending the network, correct?

Yes, that should work fine. Perhaps a bit kludgy, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

HTH
WM

 

[starboard]

OK...I am trying to figure this thing out...

Does this thing do NAT? If not, and your provider only allows one IP address per hi-speed internet account, then how do you support 10 simultaneous internet connections?

I am pretty sure I will pick up one of these, but not for the AirTunes, but because I do quite a bit of business travel, and this would be great for the hotel. At home, my AEBS covers my entire home, so I don't need the bridging capabilities.

If anyone can answer the NAT question, I would appreciate it.

Hickman

it's suppose to work in the same way that AEBS does. So if you can have mulitiple users on your home network on AEBS, then you'll be able to do the same on APExpress, but only up to 10 simultaneous users.

 

[PolarbearTed]

I really think Apple has another strong product on their hands. It's very minimal, extremely easy to set up and very useful. And it's also integrated with iTunes which people are going to really dig. And that price is perfect.

Well done on a great product. Bring on the sales!