AirPort Express with AirTunes

[pjkelnhofer]

This little gadget will cause a lot of trouble for Apple. When people get the ability to play their iTMS songs on their stereo, they will begin to realize what low quality recordings they have purchased.

They will complain and Apple will ignore them and iTMS will get a reputation as the place you go to download tapes. Meanwhile people will go flocking back to the record stores to get CD quality and the digital downloads dream will be over for another 10 years.

All because someone lied to Steve about how good 128kpbs AAC really is - it is not "pristine" it is "tape hiss."

I have had my iTunes hooked up to my stereo for quite some time and the AAC files I have downloaded sound a hell of a lot better than a tape.

I am sure that there are higher quality sound formats out there, but remember over 90% of the population is not that discriminating they want quantity, low price and ease of use over quality. Why do you think Mac has such a small market share?

ps. Before I get flamed (I know that Mac's are easier to use than Windows but people don't perceive it that way because they are used to Windows).

 

[netytan]

This thing is so cool, not to mention cheaper than the existing airport extreme base station.. did i mention i'm a big fan of saving money . I really want to get a projector and a few of these babies now so i can huck up some speakers and watch my DVD collection though the IBook with suround sound .

Way to go apple! Definatly something i'll be investing in when i have the chance, if only to get my PC and IBook talking from the other side of my house.

Later,

Mark.

 

[PlaceofDis]

this doesnt seem to be a replacement for the Airport Extreme BaseStation, but instead it is just an addition to it, i thought it kind of odd that apple would release a BS that is cheaper, has most of the same features, and some new ones, than the standard basestation. so what we have to figure out is if that is a wan port or a lan port on the Airport Express, and to me it looks as if it is indeed just a lan port, thus this CANNOT be used for wireless acess by itself, i even read apples page on the device and saw no indication of this. Thus you need a wireless basestation and this to get all of the features, whether it will work with other wireless routers, who knows

 

[bb0ys]

Remote Control for AirPortExpress

Airport Express has a USB port. Who says that a 3rd party can't/won't develop a USB device for the APExpress with remote control and software on the computer. Or how about a USB set-top box with a small display. It shows what iTunes is playing and has a few buttons for controlling playback. Perhaps an IR remote control is an extra. You could control quite a lot more than iTunes. The USB port gives a lot of possibilities, just like the dock connector on the iPod provided the possibility of many 3rd party devices.

 

[bb0ys]

APExpress is a standalone device

this doesnt seem to be a replacement for the Airport Extreme BaseStation, but instead it is just an addition to it, i thought it kind of odd that apple would release a BS that is cheaper, has most of the same features, and some new ones, than the standard basestation. so what we have to figure out is if that is a wan port or a lan port on the Airport Express, and to me it looks as if it is indeed just a lan port, thus this CANNOT be used for wireless acess by itself, i even read apples page on the device and saw no indication of this. Thus you need a wireless basestation and this to get all of the features, whether it will work with other wireless routers, who knows

From Apples Website http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/ :
"Just like its big brother, AirPort Extreme, AirPort Express uses the 802.11g wireless standard to deliver blazing data rates — up to 54 Mbps.(3) It supports both Macs equipped with an AirPort Extreme Card and Wi-Fi-compliant 802.11g Windows PCs, as well as Macs with the older AirPort Card and 802.11b Windows PCs. Everyone in your family can surf the web wire-free because AirPort Express provides simultaneous wireless Internet access via your DSL or cable modem for up to 10 computers"

HOWEVER. APExpress also will work with APExtreme BaseStations by extending the range. It is UNKNOWN to me if it will extend the range of other 802.11b/g routers. It would make sense if it did work with them.

"f you already have a wireless network in your home and would like to extend its range, AirPort Express is your answer. Suppose you want to connect to the Internet with your PowerBook in an area that lies beyond the 150-foot range of your AirPort Express or AirPort Extreme Base Station. You can use AirPort Express as a wireless bridge to extend the range of your primary base station.


There’s no need for extra wires or cables — serving as a bridge, AirPort Express doesn’t have to be physically connected to your primary base station or to your DSL or cable modem. Simply place AirPort Express within the range of your primary base station and near the area where you’d like to enjoy your wireless connection."

 

[Penman]

I don't know. 99.9% of all live band / hip hop music is in stereo. If it's used on a soundtrack for a movie it is put in surround sound after the fact and thus isn't true surround sound. The only thing 5.1 for iTunes would be good for is movie trailers encoded in surround.

Many people now mix in 5.1. More music will come that way (especially electronic/pop/rock). It's been slow because of the cost of hardware and the learning curve. Now it's not too difficult with most pro-audio software and engineers love it. For years all music will be stereo compatible (as todays stereo is all mono-compatible) but 5.1 will come. It's an easy thing for Apple to impliment and advertise anyway - regardless of pick-up.

 

[broken_keyboard]

I am sure that there are higher quality sound formats out there, but remember over 90% of the population is not that discriminating they want quantity, low price and ease of use over quality. Why do you think Mac has such a small market share?

I agree that simplicity and price are important, but without pristine recordings they are all for nothing.

iTMS is almost a good design, but they need to:
- remove the concept of albums altogether. No albums whatsoever, they are a concept of the past. Don't have the word "album" anywhere on the store.
- change the files to 256kps MP3. People understand MP3, when they are trying to grasp a new concept such as digital downloads, they don't need this weird thing AAC whatever that is. Develop rights protection for MP3 and dump AAC.
- get rid of so-called iTunes Essentials as they cheapen the store
- get rid of those awful left/right scrolly boxes. They are horrid user interface design
- get rid of the shopping cart and have only a "buy now" button
- not have it hit the store server every few seconds when idle which is an invasion of privacy
- you should be able to redownload your song if you lose the file

Good things about it are:
- billboard charts
- celebrity playlists
- previews

 

[kugino]

this doesnt seem to be a replacement for the Airport Extreme BaseStation, but instead it is just an addition to it, i thought it kind of odd that apple would release a BS that is cheaper, has most of the same features, and some new ones, than the standard basestation. so what we have to figure out is if that is a wan port or a lan port on the Airport Express, and to me it looks as if it is indeed just a lan port, thus this CANNOT be used for wireless acess by itself, i even read apples page on the device and saw no indication of this. Thus you need a wireless basestation and this to get all of the features, whether it will work with other wireless routers, who knows

yes, it can replace the AE station. but it's not a replacement for some people...there are differences (check the apple website's features of each). AE base station allows far more users (50) than air express (10), among other things...i figure air express is the consumer version of extreme and also has the airtunes feature.

as far as using it to listen to your dvd movies...i think it only works with itunes, not your system's sound (although i can see apple allowing this sometime down the road). so, it's not like you can watch your movie on your ibook and have 5.1 surround sound. you'll still need a sonica theater (or m-audio transit theater) to do that.

finally, i believe that it is compatible with other b/g stations (not only apple's) so no worries there.

macworld has a nice little article on it: macworld

 

[Dave00]

[...] I'm in the living room, I can turn the stereo on and control volume thru the keypad on the main floor, but to select music (either via a CD changer or my iPod plugged into the stereo), I'd have to go to the basement. [...]

You're exactly the kind of user who would really benefit from this. You can take your laptop to any location and control your stereo from there. Only drawback is that you can't seem to play one playlist on one stereo and another playlist on a second, so that the same music would have to be playing everywhere. It'd be nice if you could turn different stereos on/off throughout the house with this system, but alas that doesn't seem to be an option. Yet.

 

[kugino]

I agree that simplicity and price are important, but without pristine recordings they are all for nothing.

iTMS is almost a good design, but they need to:
- remove the concept of albums altogether. No albums whatsoever, they are a concept of the past. Don't have the word "album" anywhere on the store.
- change the files to 256kps MP3. People understand MP3, when they are trying to grasp a new concept such as digital downloads, they don't need this weird thing AAC whatever that is. Develop rights protection for MP3 and dump AAC.
- get rid of so-called iTunes Essentials as they cheapen the store
- get rid of those awful left/right scrolly boxes. They are horrid user interface design
- get rid of the shopping cart and have only a "buy now" button
- not have it hit the store server every few seconds when idle which is an invasion of privacy
- you should be able to redownload your song if you lose the file

Good things about it are:
- billboard charts
- celebrity playlists
- previews

nope. don't agree with you about the music store. apple's not making an audiophile music store here. and they're definitely not making a "broken_keyboard" music store. is the music store perfect? no...but look at how well it has done. it's certainly working for the most part.

albums - a lot of people like buying albums. there's a cohesion and character to albums that you can't get buying singles. and how does it hurt anyone that the album option is there? just don't buy the album.

mp3 - you're right that aac may freak people out, as they are used to mp3. but until digital rights management works on mp3, i doubt this will change. and why 256? why not 320? or AL? i think 128 was chosen because it gives the best size/performance ratio...yes, 256 would be better, but like pjkelnhofer says, 90% can't tell the difference b/n the two. those who want better bitrates will likely rip CDs at 320 or AL, so 128 is just fine for what the music store does. maybe in the future they will have an audiophile-level music store, but be prepared to spend more.

server - yes, it's problematic. i don't like it when itunes does that, too.

the rest of your complaints are really just minor use/interface problems, not real ways to make the music store better.

and the real issue is, as far as i can tell, why does this all matter for airexpress/airtunes? regardless of what you think about the itunes music store or 128 aac, airexpress and airtunes is very intriguing. if you have AL files on itunes, i think it's going to sound pretty good considering the optical out on airexpress.

 

[theSingleCell]

Maybe this is dumb

but what if you plugged in a Belkin TuneCast into the audio jack on the AE?

You could stream the iTunes to the AE and then the TuneCast could send it WIRELESSLY to the stereo.


mmm, I don't know, the more I think about it the more this device doesn't make sense. Your internet connection (Ethernet) must be right next to the AE to plug in to it. The audio out is a plug in (hard wired) so the destination of that audio would have to be close by the AE, so I would need a 60 ft audio cord to run from the AE to my stereo, hell, I would just run it from my US 122. Am I right on this? I hope not. I would buy one just on the fact that I am going to buy my daughter an eMac for her birthday and would then include an airport card so she can connect to the internet from across the house (in her room), the audio made me jump for joy but now its not making sense to me.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

I agree that simplicity and price are important, but without pristine recordings they are all for nothing.

I still disagree, there are still people out there who listen to plenty of things on tape. Most people will not care/not notice that the AAC files they downloaded are not "pristine" because they are good enough.

iTMS is almost a good design, but they need to:
- remove the concept of albums altogether. No albums whatsoever, they are a concept of the past. Don't have the word "album" anywhere on the store.

That is not up to Apple, they package the songs that way because they record companies sell them that way. What you are talking about here is not simply a change of iTMS but a change in the whole way music is marketed.

- change the files to 256kps MP3. People understand MP3, when they are trying to grasp a new concept such as digital downloads, they don't need this weird thing AAC whatever that is. Develop rights protection for MP3 and dump AAC.

Most people have no idea what MP3 means or stands for. They don't care what the file is called. They only care that it works with their system. I would bet that there are people who have iTunes and an iPod and have never even heard of an AAC file. They just now that it plays their songs.

- get rid of so-called iTunes Essentials as they cheapen the store
- get rid of those awful left/right scrolly boxes. They are horrid user interface design

These are your personal opinions. I am sure there are people who like the "Essentials" section and personally, I like the interface and never have problems with the boxes. When it comes to interface design you can never please everyone.

- get rid of the shopping cart and have only a "buy now" button

What is wrong with the shopping cart. I have never used it, I always by my songs one at a time, but if my connection we slower it may make sense to pick a bunch of songs set it to download and go make a snack. Why get rid of a feature that is optional to use?

- not have it hit the store server every few seconds when idle which is an invasion of privacy

Not sure what you mean here. Don't leave the store sitting open when you aren't using it. How is iTunes checking the store server an invasion of your privacy?

- you should be able to redownload your song if you lose the file

A lot of people say this, but if I lose/ruin my CD can I got to Tower Records and get a new one because I already bought it once? Nope, unless I made a copy of it somewhere else I am SOL.

Good things about it are:
- billboard charts
- celebrity playlists
- previews

I like the charts and previews, but have never even looked at one of the celebrity playlists. What do I care what some else recommends?

This thread was about the AirportExpress and you originally said it would hurt iTunes because people would realize they have been buying low quality music. I still totally disagree with you on that one. If the 128kps AAC files are such low quality why wouldn't people notice it just listening to an iPod vs. a portable CD player?

 

[pjkelnhofer]

mmm, I don't know, the more I think about it the more this device doesn't make sense. Your internet connection (Ethernet) must be right next to the AE to plug in to it. The audio out is a plug in (hard wired) so the destination of that audio would have to be close by the AE, so I would need a 60 ft audio cord to run from the AE to my stereo, hell, I would just run it from my US 122. Am I right on this? I hope not. I would buy one just on the fact that I am going to buy my daughter an eMac for her birthday and would then include an airport card so she can connect to the internet from across the house (in her room), the audio made me jump for joy but now its not making sense to me.

The idea is that you plug you cable/DSL modem into the AE and now you have a wireless network. You would get a second AE and plug it in near your stereo and the plug that into the audio out. Now you can transmit your iTunes to your stereo. Alternatively, if you already have a Wireless network, you simply plug your stereo into an AE and now you can stream iTunes.

If your stereo is already close to you Mac you simply run the audio out from your Mac into your stereo (I have been doing this for years).

 

[whooleytoo]

iTMS is almost a good design, but they need to:
- remove the concept of albums altogether. No albums whatsoever, they are a concept of the past. Don't have the word "album" anywhere on the store.

Why? Sure, there's no need to have albums with digital distribution, but there's no pressing need to get rid of them either. Lots of people (I'm one) like buying music by album.

- change the files to 256kps MP3. People understand MP3, when they are trying to grasp a new concept such as digital downloads, they don't need this weird thing AAC whatever that is. Develop rights protection for MP3 and dump AAC.

If they'd just stuck with mp4 audio, it might have taken hold easier, I guess.

- get rid of so-called iTunes Essentials as they cheapen the store

MMMV (My Mileage Must Vary.. ) I like them.

- get rid of those awful left/right scrolly boxes. They are horrid user interface design

Apple does seem to be getting a little... cheesier with their UI design lately, with lots of web-like mouseover states etc. in their applications. I think the scroll boxes don't work too badly, allowing you to view several albums' artwork without taking up too much space.

- get rid of the shopping cart and have only a "buy now" button

Bad idea. Different strokes for different folks.. let them buy the way they like. It's a lot better having the chance to review your orders before buying.

- not have it hit the store server every few seconds when idle which is an invasion of privacy

Depends on what it's sending/receiving, doesn't it? I'm guessing it's checking for iTMS content updates, though it wouldn't surprise me if it was also logging usage patterns in the opposite direction. That kind of feedback certainly would be a boon for music providers: "Consumers played track 1 of album X 100,000 times, track 2: 200,000 times.. etc.".

- you should be able to redownload your song if you lose the file

Agreed! Though it would be tricky and time/resource consuming to implement.

 

[whooleytoo]

Aah... I just realised, all the power outlets in my house are low to the ground - and due to the shape of the Airport Express and having the sockets at the bottom, I won't be able to plug it straight into the wall! Having to use the extra power cable to plug it in.. well, it's just adding more cable clutter...

 

[jcricket]

The idea is that you plug you cable/DSL modem into the AE and now you have a wireless network. You would get a second AE and plug it in near your stereo and the plug that into the audio out. Now you can transmit your iTunes to your stereo. Alternatively, if you already have a Wireless network, you simply plug your stereo into an AE and now you can stream iTunes.

How does the AE work if your wireless base station already provides good enough coverage for your house? I don't need to extend the range, I'd really like to get an AE just for the streaming music feature. Can you turn off the other features?

 

[pjkelnhofer]

How does the AE work if your wireless base station already provides good enough coverage for your house? I don't need to extend the range, I'd really like to get an AE just for the streaming music feature. Can you turn off the other features?

I high doubt that you can turn off the other features. You just wouldn't use them. It doesn't hurt to have extra coverage so long as you keep everything secure/encrypted (don't want you neighbors hijacking your network).

 

[whooleytoo]

Video out?

Another Macrumors source described the Airport Express as having a video out feature as well (which would have coincided nicely with earlier rumours of a device allowing a 'broadcast to tv' function).

There doesn't appear to be any on the AE, unless... didn't iBooks have a video (i.e. TV) out connector that looked like an audio out socket? Could the AE's audio out socket double (err.. triple?) as a video out connection? Would 54Mbps, plus compression be enough bandwith for video (even for just using your TV as a big monitor - it wouldn't be enough for streaming a DVD).

Hmm.. fanciful, I'll admit..

 

[BigHat]

Wow Great Idea Apple !!!

Just read through these 460+ posts. A comment and a question

Noted the injection of the off-topic rant on the value of 128 AAC. I record all of my music for iPod use at 256K AAC. Have purchased a LaCie 1 Tera drive to record my entire music collection. Was going to store it uncompressed, but may avail myself of the new lossless compression scheme in iTunes.
The music I buy from the iTMS sounds just fine. I have done some private experiments that reveal less compression is better, but it's no huge deal and no where near as bad is the comments made earlier. Hell, if it's super important to you just buy the d*amn CD.
I also use very high-end earphones with my iPod and concur that's the easiest way to discern a difference. On a $25,000+ home system (for 2-channel) the 128s still sound very listenable. I have a number of "audiosnob" friends that though MP3s were the end of life as we know it. Most now find it very acceptable, especially for party and background music applications, and acknowledge it's also a super friendly way to listen to music. Most attribute the "acceptable" sound to my outboard DAC. I drive it via USB 2 cable from my PB17 and then into my preamp as analog. I think they are just rationalizing, but I'm sure it contains better devices than your average laptop.

That leads to my question. What's happening inside this device? What D to A or A to D conversion is occurring? It sure would be nice to send a minimally screwed digital signal straight to the better DACs in my pre-amp. I hope this doesn't include a $13 DAC that can't be bypassed. Thoughts?

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

Just read through these 460+ posts. A comment and a question

...

That leads to my question. What's happening inside this device? What D to A or A to D conversion is occurring? It sure would be nice to send a minimally screwed digital signal straight to the better DACs in my pre-amp. I hope this doesn't include a $13 DAC that can't be bypassed. Thoughts?

It isn't enough just to read the posts, you have to read the links too. What, 4 hours per thread is too much for ya?

Anywho, it's Apple Lossless to the Airport Express, at which point you have an optical out. So you get iTunes sound-file bitwise quality to your DAC.

 

[whooleytoo]

That leads to my question. What's happening inside this device? What D to A or A to D conversion is occurring? It sure would be nice to send a minimally screwed digital signal straight to the better DACs in my pre-amp. I hope this doesn't include a $13 DAC that can't be bypassed. Thoughts?

From what I've heard so far.. it seems iTunes decompresses the AAC/MP3 file, and re-compresses it with the lossless encoder for transmission. So if you're using the optical audio out, it's digital all the way so there shouldn't be any loss of quality. If you're using the analog out, then your guess is as good as mine!

 

[davecuse]

What's happening inside this device? What D to A or A to D conversion is occurring? It sure would be nice to send a minimally screwed digital signal straight to the better DACs in my pre-amp. I hope this doesn't include a $13 DAC that can't be bypassed. Thoughts?

You could always just go Digital to Digital using an Optical cable.

 

[Powerbook G5]

Well the weakest link will be the quality of which the song file being listened to is recorded at. You can have a pure digital link going to a high end system but if the file is mediocre, you aren't going to be too impressed.

 

[BigHat]

From what I've heard so far.. it seems iTunes decompresses the AAC/MP3 file, and re-compresses it with the lossless encoder for transmission. So if you're using the optical audio out, it's digital all the way so there shouldn't be any loss of quality. If you're using the analog out, then your guess is as good as mine!

Thanks everyone. I will definitely use the optical output, just wondered what was cooking inside the little guy. I guess we have until mid-July to figure it out. One coming anyway. They should included the audio connections in my view. Ordered the damn thing then realized I didn't have the pieces to connect it up for music. Personally, I think this is most people will buy it for anyway.

I also assume that it would be pointless to record uncompressed over lossless compression Apple now uses since it gets that treatment over the airways anyway. Too bad it couldn't sense the lossless compression and just pass it rather than adding a decoding step.
I guess I'm being too picky.

 

[brianrubinton@m]

I am still praying for a little thing that connects to the iPod on the top that has airport inside. Or a $50 dock with airport in it. Or what would be the absolute best is a $75 iPod mini that is white with airport in it that is nothing but a really cool remote.