Airport Extreme Air Disk, and 801.11n Upgrades $4.99 [Update]

[Mtn Tamale]

2 click finger update not the same

What was the market value of that...nothing. What were competitors selling the same update for? nothing. Maybe that update had value to you, maybe to other people, but in terms of a litmus test...nobody could complain that Apple was giving away something for free that they were providing on their machines for an upgrade fee, or that was available from a third party as an upgrade for a fee. There was no market value to that update beyond what Apple said it was....which was in effect zero.... If Apple could do the same thing now, I'm sure they would.

Ok... I'm not too familiar with firmware updates so I'm going to steer clear of that issue, but I'm curious how apple gets around this with the software updates and patches to OS X.

There was a patch/update a few months ago that significantly improved Rosetta's performance... it optimized the software to take better advantage of hardware we had already payed for. How is this update any different?

EDIT: Another instance of this was the 15" MBP two-finger right click update. Remember when it first came out the two finger right click wasn't possible even though the hardware was clearly capable. An update fixed that a few months later once the two-finger right click was introduced in the 17" MBP and the MB.

 

[c-Row]

I like the additional USB port and the Airport Disc feature - I want one!

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

What was the market value of that...nothing. What were competitors selling the same update for? nothing.

So, if iScroll2 were selling for $25 Apple couldn't do the update?

The theory doesn't make sense.

If they have to charge some nominal fee, why not make it $0.99 like a iTunes track.

Yep, you nailed it. They're money-grubbing.

If anything, after pondering this for some time, the issue is most likely that Apple is concerned that it would be "giving away" something of economic value for free. If it did, either the end user would have to pay taxes on it, like if you were to win a lottery jackpot, or Apple would be liable for the taxes.

By that logic no OS or App updates from any OS vendor from now forward will have any added features unless it's a paid upgrade. XPSP2 is thereby illegal or going to cost Microsoft umpteen billion dollars.

I don't believe it. The theory doesn't work.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

I have the Airport Express, and I use my MacBook in the living room to play music that is stored on my PowerMac G5. There are 2 serious restrictions Apple have imposed:

1) iTunes must remain open on the PowerMac G5
2) None of the album art, album art view etc work when streaming from another Mac

I hope these restrictions have been resolved for the Apple TV because if not, storing the iTunes library on a USB hard drive plugged into the new Airport Extreme basestation would NOT allow it to be played on the Apple TV.

 

[mklos]

I think some people are misunderstanding this. All Apple is doing is charging a simple $4.99 to activate 802.11n in Macs with Core 2 Duos/MacPro's. If you don't need n speeds, nobody is making you update. If you don't have an n router, then the n speeds will be useless and you'll basically be wasting $5.00. So Apple is just charging you $4.99 to download this 802.11n enabler patch. Apple is not saying that they won't fix any issues with Core 2 Duo Macs not being reliable as they should on wireless networks. All you're being charged for is the n speed.

Apple has done nothing wrong here. They shipped those Macs to work with 802.11b/g networks. The wireless chip in these Macs just happen to also support 802.11n and if you now want that, you're going to have to pay for it. Its just a simple upgrade ONLY if you need it. Again, Apple has done nothing wrong here because they advertised the Macs as having 802.11g wireless networking, NOT 802.11n wireless networking. I assume that once the new AirPort starts shipping, they will advertise any new Macs made from then on (NOT including ones already in the warehouse) as shipping with 802.11n wireless networking and the price for that will be grandfathered into the price of the Mac.

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

There are reasonable tests, and every little bug fix, update, enhancement, whatever, are not the same. In this case it is discrete, quantifiable, with verifiable value in the marketplace

What's the verifiable value in the marketplace on an 802.11n upgrade for a MacBook? Oh, there isn't any, it's not upgradeable.

Whether software driver, hardware, firmware, it doesn't matter in this case. The deal is that you didn't buy a computer with .11n capability.

Sure we did. Otherwise it couldn't be 'turned on'. The theory doesn't work because the assumption is false, prima facie.

That's like saying we didn't buy a computer that is DST-2007 capable. But Apple is going to update the computers, for free, to be DST-2007 capable. Should they charge for that? No. Could I charge somebody to change the locale files to make their Mac DST-2007 capable? Yep. Could I sell it for $25? Yep. It has value, Apple is going to sell it, but not take a charge on it. And nobody doing SOX enforcement is going to go after Apple for it.

Same as with the firmware update - nobody is going to go after Apple for it. They're using SOX as a cover to grab an additional $5 from a half million customers.

 

[Mtn Tamale]

No, it does make sense. Apple sold the exact same machine with the same specs and everything for the same price but it had 2 finger scrolling. Apple effectively said this has no additional economic value to anyone, its just nice, and there was still no market value out there. iScroll2 is in development and costs nothings, but even if it was selling for $25 and a few hundred, or even a thousand people bought it, that a market does not make. Clearly you can see the clear difference in the price of upgrading a computer to 802.11n in the marketplace versus a few sales of some obscure product. Accounting rules are shockingly fair, and consider proportionality and a lot of other issues. Again, people uneducated about accounting typically can't think themselves through the issues correctly. They are what they are, and you either know them and understand how to apply them, or you don't...though on basic levels it is simple arithmetic.

So, if iScroll2 were selling for $25 Apple couldn't do the update?

The theory doesn't make sense.

 

[Peace]

Here's a theory.

Perhaps Broadcom and Atheros are charging Apple to "enable the "N".

 

[Mtn Tamale]

Wrong, Apple sells experiences and stated functionality

Apple doesn't sell spec'd boxes with an OS tacked on. They sell integrated computing systems as a single product when they sell a Mac. If it doesn't have 802.11n it doesn't have it per Apple and their accounting and marketing treatment, period. If they later provide it, they provide it extra, however they do it. I submit you are coming at this from a tech geek everything should be free perspective. Apple doesn't think that way at all, and their accounting treatment reflects it.

And you are right though, that nobody is likely to go after Apple on a SOX or other violation over this, but you don't choose item by item when to follow the rules. You follow the system of rules as you know them, learn them, learn to apply them to your business. That is what Apple is doing right here.

Sure we did. Otherwise it couldn't be 'turned on'. The theory doesn't work because the assumption is false, prima facie.

That's like saying we didn't buy a computer that is DST-2007 capable. But Apple is going to update the computers, for free, to be DST-2007 capable. Should they charge for that? No. Could I charge somebody to change the locale files to make their Mac DST-2007 capable? Yep. Could I sell it for $25? Yep. It has value, Apple is going to sell it, but not take a charge on it. And nobody doing SOX enforcement is going to go after Apple for it.

Same as with the firmware update - nobody is going to go after Apple for it. They're using SOX as a cover to grab an additional $5 from a half million customers.

 

[mklos]

I have the Airport Express, and I use my MacBook in the living room to play music that is stored on my PowerMac G5. There are 2 serious restrictions Apple have imposed:

1) iTunes must remain open on the PowerMac G5
2) None of the album art, album art view etc work when streaming from another Mac

I hope these restrictions have been resolved for the Apple TV because if not, storing the iTunes library on a USB hard drive plugged into the new Airport Extreme basestation would NOT allow it to be played on the Apple TV.

1. Obvioulsly that needs to happen. You can't share music out of iTunes if iTunes isn't running. Just like if you have 2 Macs that are shaiing files and/or printers and that Mac isn't on, you can't access the files or the printer either. Its impossible for that not to happen. The only other way to do this is to not have it go through iTunes which Apple would never do.

2. I believe the Album Art works fine through Apple TV. It did seem to appear duing the Keynote Demo.

 

[NightStorm]

I hope people realize that this kind of thing happens a lot... companies use chips that are capable of more features than they need, and they are software disabled by the company to match what they need. This especially happens when chips are unavailable and a replacement is needed in a hurry.

Next you're going to complain when you download the draft-n software upgrade (either from Apple or another source) only to find out that it isn't compatible with a non-Apple router. I think this is actually the true reason they are doing this: since the n-spec hasn't been ratified, they don't want to deal with the headaches of dealing with incompatible draft-n hardware.

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

Apple effectively said this has no additional economic value to anyone, its just nice, and there was still no market value out there.

So they advertise a feature that has no value? The value of a Mac is that it's "just nice". I actually know some people who bought MacBook Pro's to run Dual-Boot explicitly because they could now do a right-click on a Mac. That's value.

iScroll2 is in development and costs nothings, but even if it was selling for $25 and a few hundred, or even a thousand people bought it, that a market does not make.

What if a hundred thousand people bought it? Show me the rule that determines when a market exists. Or that a company can call a product "just nice" and thereby put a 0 in the 'value' column.

Clearly you can see the clear difference in the price of upgrading a computer to 802.11n in the marketplace versus a few sales of some obscure product.

Most people I know only use their laptops' wireless to access the Internet on sub 802.11b speeds. The value of 802.11g or n for them is zero. Those people I mentioned before think the value of a right-click is $2499. It's going to be different for every user.

Accounting rules are shockingly fair, and consider proportionality and a lot of other issues.

So then how can Apple sell a $5 updater? The market value for an 802.11n ExpressCard is more than $5.

 

[jimthorn]

The AirDisk feature alone is a reason for me to replace my old Airport Extreme Base Station. I've been wanting a feature like that for a long time. In fact, I may get one for my office at work too. As several others have mentioned, having two USB ports on the back would've been better, as hubs are just cluttery.

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

Apple doesn't sell spec'd boxes with an OS tacked on. They sell integrated computing systems as a single product when they sell a Mac.

OK, we'll see if there are no iTunes, iPod, or QuickTime feature updates in the future and decide then if Apple sells integrated systems that just do what they do and get no new features when it's technically feasible.

 

[Mtn Tamale]

You are zealously confused

New features don't necessarily have quantifiable market value, and there is a lot of room for determination of bug fixes vs. enhancement vs. new features. This .11n upgrade is probably one of the few times where the issue is so clear. This isn't something academic to theorize to an extreme. It is what it is in this instance. The same tests apply all the time, but the answers aren't usually as clear and are often more able to be interpreted to a company's agenda.

Also, the deal about MacBooks not being upgradeable...so what. I think that just shows your confusion. In fact, they probably are or will soon be upgradeable with USB external "n" adapters. The functionality still has a cost and a value.

I don't want to offend you, but you are taking an uneducated position and pushing it with anecdotes that don't fit the situation. I know pretty well what I'm talking about, and I'm trying to help you understand. Interesting exercise this has been.

By that logic no OS or App updates from any OS vendor from now forward will have any added features unless it's a paid upgrade. XPSP2 is thereby illegal or going to cost Microsoft umpteen billion dollars.

I don't believe it. The theory doesn't work.

 

[htdefiant]

I just called Apple Tech Support. Apparently, Apple will be offering a $4.95 USB Adapter (simply a USB flash looking thing) to plug into computers. If you give them your Wireless N serial, they'll send you one for $5

 

[panoz7]

I don't want to offend you, but you are taking an uneducated position and pushing it with anecdotes that don't fit the situation. I know pretty well what I'm talking about, and I'm trying to help you understand. Interesting exercise this has been.

I don't think you were referring to me, but since I was responsible for the two finger click anecdote I guess I should explain anyway. I know you're trying to help us understand, and at least for me, these anecdotes / examples can help us understand.

So here's one more (and I'm providing this only because I'm curious and find this intriguing): Gapless playback on my iPod. My 5g iPod received a software update to enable gapless playback when the 5.5g iPod was released. This seems exactly the same to me as the N thing... it was a strongly desired feature and it is advertised clearly on apple's website. How is this different?

By the way, since this whole accounting thing is a little bit beyond me, how would apple determine that $4.99 is the appropriate amount for this service? If they charge too much isn't that just as bad (accounting wise) as charging too little?

 

[Stridder44]

Probably, but they didn't advertise that the computers had 802.11n wireless adapters: they said 11g.

I too wonder when they will be available for download. I find it kind of annoying that I have this MacBook with the capability to handle 11n but have to stick with 11g until Apple allows everyone to have this software update.

Annoying!? Does anyone else think this is outrageous? If I owned a new Mac and I had to pay for a "feature" that was already a part of my computer I'd be pissed as hell. That is bull@#!&@. Maybe I'm missing part of the story here...


That's like buying a car only to later find out you had 800hp this whole time instead of the 400hp you bought it at, only to discover that get this extra 400hp (you know, the stuff you already paid for) is going to cost you extra. This is worse than DRM!

 

[poppe]

Well that just sucks... 4.99 might not seem like much but it is and I was really expecting just a free upgrade.... I already have a wireless n router. I don't want to shell out 4.99 for N. on my computer. And I don't want to have to go by an airport extreme....

 

[Peace]

I just called Apple Tech Support. Apparently, Apple will be offering a $4.95 USB Adapter (simply a USB flash looking thing) to plug into computers. If you give them your Wireless N serial, they'll send you one for $5

That makes no sense..

A USB adapter to enable an internal wireless card???

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

The same tests apply all the time, but the answers aren't usually as clear and are often more able to be interpreted to a company's agenda.

Can you please provide a link to these tests? I get all sorts of feature additions to my iPod and Apple doesn't charge for them. Same goes for iTunes, Quicktime, etc.

Also, the deal about MacBooks not being upgradeable...so what. I think that just shows your confusion. In fact, they probably are or will soon be upgradeable with USB external "n" adapters. The functionality still has a cost and a value.

Most people won't accept a USB dongle solution - they'll live with .g speed. An internal card and an external dongle are two separate products. You're making the subjective judgment "USB dongles and internal cards are equivalent" (which the market would disagree with) and thereby "a market value for internal card upgrades exists, if it were possible", and therefore, "charging for it is fair and equitable".

 

[Stridder44]

That makes no sense..

A USB adapter to enable an internal wireless card???

Exactly! Who the hell wants to buy a $5 USB dongle for a feature they already have? God forbid this is Apple's doing...

 

[Chef Medeski]

That makes no sense..

A USB adapter to enable an internal wireless card???

a USB key:

a device that enables a software function to occur only when the device is onncected through USB

Its quite old school, serial keys have been around for a long time. Most people dropped the key in USB, cause there are so many more clean ways to do this w/o a device.

 

[fustercluck]

Whether software driver, hardware, firmware, it doesn't matter in this case. The deal is that you didn't buy a computer with .11n capability. Apple is an integrated and relatively closed hardware software platform, so my argument is different that if we were talking about Windows PCs. With Apple releasing this software to enable .11n, they are in effect giving away .11n ability, which right now has a market value associated with it beyond the value of the purchase price of the laptop. There are tax implications to giving something away of value, and apple has to account for it. $5 is a steal. And they probably could care less if the driver was pirated and distributed for free unofficially.

And for the record, R&D is a capital expense off the income statement up until a product becomes market viable, which in Apple's case, with their traditional treatment as stated in their 10-K's is when a product is announced. Then all R&D after announcement is a tax deductible operating expense...which is great, but it lowers earnings.

Apple likes NOT providing roadmaps for their products and keeping tons of secrecy for this reason in addition to their market position, because it keeps their earnings higher. Not having to expense (on an income statement) almost ANY R&D until a product is announced, which is typically about when it ships, makes Apple look much more profitable.

Hope this answers a lot of people's questions.

MtnT

Your logic is fallacious if you stop for a moment and consider all of the enhanced functionality that I didn't pay for that I get for free from Software Update. There is certainly R&D costs associated with security patches, with iTunes updates, and so on. A move from .g to .n can be seen as another type of software upgrade, unless there is a real legal or accounting distinction between software and firmware, in which case maybe there is a valid reason other than your faulty supposition.

Furthermore, I did buy a computer with .n capability (but not that functionality since Apple crippled it). The wireless card I have in my computer has a cost associated with it, and I'm sure it was more expensive than a simple .g card.

 

[Peel]

...if it has G then it will bring the whole network down to G speed correct?

No, this is a misconception, that has been spreading around the forum. A mixed network doesn't bring the entire network down to the lowest common denominator, it does create additional overhead, that slows the newtork a little from it's top theoretical speed.
I've had a mixed B+G network at home for a couple years (the only B device is my network printer). I've done some tests and the best throughput i can get when the network is in mixed mode is about 24Mbps. When I take the printer off-line, I can get around 26 (have never been able to hit the full 54Mbps rate).

I presume that A+B+N+G mixed mode will be the same; you will take a small hit from running non-N devices, but you won't drop down to the lowest speed device on the network.