All-In-One Design is Fail IMO

[munkery]

Back in 2011 when 2011 iMac was fresh? You can't. Now? It's possible.

But again, I wasn't debating about iMac spec-wise. We're talking about form factor here. iMac spec is a good deal for the money. But AIO brings a notebook limitation to desktop machine.

Then I ask you again the same question. IF Apple sells a quad MacPro + 27" Cinema Display for $2000, would you still pick the iMac over it?

Case, CPU, GPU, HDD, Ram, Ethernet adapter, I/O interfaces, and etc for only a $1000?

Still think that would be tough to pull off now. Base 27" iMac has quad core i5 CPU, no? What would that cost?

The only mobile limitation seems to be the GPU so unless you are a gamer looking to play the latest games at max settings this isn't a huge limitation.

Seems to me the only users that require shorter term ability to upgrade are gamers.

Hardcore gamers don't really benefit by buying a Mac anyway.

Btw, I have a Mac Mini connected to a TV and a MacBook that is used with a Cinema Display.

Not really an iMac fan but understand why some users prefer the design.

 

[Comeagain?]

Did Apple really loose that much processor quality when moving to a much better looking, functional, iconic design? For most users, are the benefits of user-upgradability and internal tinkering, really that important? I have never had my iMac (C2D) overheat, so while the top gets hot, there isn't much damage. And, does heat behind a display matter either?

 

[iSayuSay]

Case, CPU, GPU, HDD, Ram, Ethernet adapter, I/O interfaces, and etc for only a $1000?

Still think that would be tough to pull off now. Base 27" iMac has quad core i5 CPU, no? What would that cost?

The only mobile limitation seems to be the GPU so unless you are a gamer looking to play the latest games at max settings this isn't a huge limitation.

Seems to me the only users that require shorter term ability to upgrade are gamers.

Hardcore gamers don't really benefit by buying a Mac anyway.

Btw, I have a Mac Mini connected to a TV and a MacBook that is used with a Cinema Display.

Not really an iMac fan but understand why some users prefer the design.

Yes, you can. Add $1000 for Cinema Display (or $700 for equally good Dell U2711) you get the same killer machine.

But like I said for two times already sir, I wasn't complaining about the spec. iMac surprisingly has a great spec. Like OP I had problems with AIO design. I own a 2011 iMac and it's not news that this very sexy design bring many problems to its display (being smudged, dirty, lines appearing) and also some problems with its internal.

It would be better if I could have something like a MacPro + Cinema Display, with high end consumer guts and desktop GPU for $2000 rather than dumbed down (but great) desktop like iMac.
But Apple just doesn't provide that solution.

 

[Crazy82]

Mobile GPU vs desctop GPU?

What is the big differen's of the mobile GPU and the desctop GPU? What makes the desctop GPU greater preformance wise (I know it is but why?) than the mobile?

Answers please!

 

[Comeagain?]

I own a 2011 iMac and it's not news that this very sexy design bring many problems to displays (being smudged, dirty, lines appearing) and some problems with its internal.

Smudges, dirt, and lines appearing can happen on any display. Not limited to all in ones. And any computer can have problems with internals, not just all in ones.

 

[iMcLovin]

I am indeed surprised. But to each their own.

Because I do believe MacPro design is no slouch either. If I pretend to be a shallow tech-phobia who knows nothing and only care about looks, I'd think MacPro is no less sexy than any Mac out there.

Uh huh, sure it looks like one conventional computer. One box+one display+keyboard/mouse. But for Cinema/Thunderbolt Display + MacPro? .. Oh well I absolutely love the way it looks, be its front or back.

I agree the MacPro is a good looking tower. But, still its a tower I dont really need. Of course its good if you need to slot stuff in yourself. But, when you don´t need that at all then its no point having that. It´s like todays cars, engines are getting more and more covered, so for the user its looks like one sexy engine, while the mechanics would probably prefer an open engine which is easy to operate. But for me, even if I knew mechanic, I don´t have the interest of doing so. My car should drive me were I want and look as clean as possible.

 

[iSayuSay]

Smudges, dirt, and lines appearing can happen on any display. Not limited to all in ones. And any computer can have problems with internals, not just all in ones.

Sure, but it happens more likely on an iMac. I am on my iMac 3rd screen right now. I can see the smudges are developing again, it's gonna be my 4th in a few months. Thanks to AppleCare it's gonna be free, with some down time

See this or Google "iMac smudge display" yourself. It's so easy to look on Google, even before you complete the phrase, showing how many queries on that topic.

 

[munkery]

Yes, you can. Add $1000 for Cinema Display (or $700 for equally good Dell U2711) you get the same killer machine.

The suggested retail of Dell U2711 is $1000. Dell has it for $900 right now. Discounted prices from another source don't make a fair comparison as one could reference refurb or discounted Macs as well.

That tower package seems to lack thunderbolt, a wireless adapter, and etc so not exactly same specs. May or may not make a difference?

But like I said for two times already sir, I wasn't complaining about the spec. iMac surprisingly has a great spec. Like OP I had problems with AIO design. I own a 2011 iMac and it's not news that this very sexy design bring many problems to its display (being smudged, dirty, lines appearing) and also some problems with its internal.

Sorry you got a dub. I had to get my cinema display replaced once under warranty. Second one is near as perfect as possible.

It would be better if I could have something like a MacPro + Cinema Display, with high end consumer guts and desktop GPU for $2000 rather than dumbed down (but great) desktop like iMac.
But Apple just doesn't provide that solution.

Then don't buy a Mac. It seems obvious that you want a gaming machine. Buy what fits your needs next time around.

 

[iSayuSay]

The suggested retail of Dell U2711 is $1000. Dell has it for $900 right now. Discounted prices from another source don't make a fair comparison as one could reference refurb or discounted Macs as well.

Fine, make it $1000 and eliminate all possible deals. You may see later that the greatest deal for Apple display you can find (even in Apple refurb store) will never touch the lowest point you may get from Dell.

That tower package seems to lack thunderbolt, a wireless adapter, and etc so not exactly same specs. May or may not make a difference?

Yes it is, but current iMac also lacks USB 3.0 and it has slower GPU. In the end it's all even out. Not exactly the same, but perfectly equal.

Sorry you got a dub. I had to get my cinema display replaced once under warranty. Second one is near as perfect as possible.

It's not exactly a dub. I get a perfectly fine machine, but the screen is troublesome by design. I know I'm not alone, or only 10 of millions. Confirm it with your local Genius, or Google "iMac smudge display" to see how popular that topic really is. Even in this very subforum.

You own a Cinema Display which less prone to the problem. Wouldn't know how it feels to own an iMac with one.

Then don't buy a Mac. It seems obvious that you want a gaming machine. Buy what fits your needs next time around.

I will get another Mac, but not something like iMac. Apple is getting good at making mobile devices and dumping desktops anyway. Something like gaming box + 13" MBA + TB display would be my choice in the future.

 

[WilliamLondon]

Form *and* function. Sad to say not a lot of companies get this notion. If it doesn't appeal to you, then perhaps Apple isn't the company to build products you should be buying. I for one love that Apple puts as much effort into form as they do into function. Equal amounts of form and function is what every product should incorporate, without exception. The form of my iMac is perfect for me.

I have an AIO, it's my 3rd, my mother bought one and loves it more than any other PC she ever owned, my good friends (one of who worked at IBM for nearly 40 years) just bought one and loves it and is now an Apple convert. They aren't for dumbasses (as you say) and they most definitely are *not* without benefit. The incredibly offensive thing is that your criteria you claim should be everyone's and that we are mere dumbasses for having different wants and needs. Well, there's a triumph for individualism if I ever heard, thanks very much!

 

[LostSoul80]

What's your problem with an AIO design? Upgradability of the GPU? If so, not everyone needs the latest and greatest GPU available. For those who need them, there are plenty of other choices in the tech world, but for those who don't, there are no downsides.

But like I said for two times already sir, I wasn't complaining about the spec. iMac surprisingly has a great spec. Like OP I had problems with AIO design. I own a 2011 iMac and it's not news that this very sexy design bring many problems to its display (being smudged, dirty, lines appearing) and also some problems with its internal.

I see the reason you're complaining. Be assured that most users don't experience that problem, often related to the LCD panel quality itself. I don't think that's something against a computer design, unless you can prove the AIO design has concrete downsides (research articles, for example).

If you buy 5 iPad's with poor screens, that doesn't make an argument against the design of a tablet.

 

[SR20DETDOG]

Then I ask you again the same question. IF Apple sells a quad MacPro + 27" Cinema Display for $2000, would you still pick the iMac over it?

Couldn't agree more, had I had the money I would have gone for a MacPro, but alas I had to settle for an iMac. While it's been a fantastic machine (haven't had a single problem with it) I really would love to be able to add extra HDDs and upgrade the GFX card easily.

 

[boy-better-know]

There are valid points for both sides of the coin in this thread. However, I believe that if you percieve the balance between power, design, customer service and status to suit you then that is fine. Apple augment their products with clever marketing and brand equity as well as with specs. This means more to some than others.
Like Stephen fry said, style and substance are the same thing. If you want to use something more because it looks nice, then you will be more productive with it.

 

[Liquinn]

There are valid points for both sides of the coin in this thread. However, I believe that if you percieve the balance between power, design, customer service and status to suit you then that is fine. Apple augment their products with clever marketing and brand equity as well as with specs. This means more to some than others.
Like Stephen fry said, style and substance are the same thing. If you want to use something more because it looks nice, then you will be more productive with it.

You could spend 10 grand on a Mac Pro an it'd be out of date in 2 years

 

[Roller]

The truth is there is NOTHING beneficial about the All-In-One design beyond it looking pretty and neat and being super user friendly for a dumbass that can't plug a monitor, keyboard, and mouse into a tower...

The majority of consumers either dont know/or dont care about the stuff above. The average Joe would of course think a screen with no tower is 100x cooler and better...

So people who choose iMacs over Mac Pros or Mac minis are average Joes who are too stupid to plug components into a tower, huh? Thanks so much for enlightening us.

 

[kasakka]

What is the big differen's of the mobile GPU and the desctop GPU? What makes the desctop GPU greater preformance wise (I know it is but why?) than the mobile?

Answers please!

mobile GPUs are generally equivalent to a several generations older desktop GPU when it comes to performance. For example the Nvidia GTX 460 M would be about as fast as a desktop GTX 260 M, but has support for newer features like DirectX 11 etc. The mobile ones are designed for low heat, low battery drain etc and that comes at the cost of performance.

That said, the current mobile GPUs are starting to be good enough for lots of things as games etc haven't advanced at the same rate.

As for the iMac, the 27" is a good deal because the display would be rather expensive on its own. That's what most people seem to forget. I would buy one if I didn't already have a huge display and a decent desktop PC. I and most other people just don't need a big noisy box under the table nowadays.

 

[Mike in Kansas]

Having a space for 27" means you also have space for the tower itself.

So I should stick the tower on the desk in front of me instead of the monitor? That's a stupid statement. I have my iMac sitting on my desk, which has no storage space under it. I could not put a tower on/under my desk and also have a spot for the 24" display on top of the desk. And I don't want to get a different desk. I like the iMac as it fits into my space. I don't need to change my space to fit it in.

Mac Pro is too darn big. We have (actually "had") them in the creative department of my work. Take up too darn much space. They've slowly been replacing them with iMacs as the power of an iMac is more than enough for design, and you get everything in a footprint of the Cinema Display without all the additional space that the Mac Pro takes up.

 

[philipma1957]

$1000 for the display. So, $1000 remaining for the tower.

Can you build tower with the exact same spec as the $2000 iMac but without a display for only $1000?

yes actually better. better mobo and better cpu cost 500

apple gives you 4gb ram so I will give my machine 16gb ram total for ram is 100 you are at 600

100 for a case you are at 700


100 for a psu you are at 800

300 for a top of the line gpu you are at 1100

400 for a 500 gb ssd you are at 1500


but wait that is more then 1000 . yeah but apple charges sales tax and you are going to get applecare so the 2000 machine is more like 2500. second link shows the apple imac that I picked to compare my build to.

lastly you can have 2 even 3 1080p screens . 21 inch versions cost 400 to 600 . or you can find a 27 inch dell for 800 .

 

[Lancer]

Of course its beneficial with a all-in-one. For a lot of us using a Mac, we care about looks. That's one thing. Less clutter is second. For a lot of users, including myself, I prefer not being able to open the machine etc if I get the hardware I want...it's as pointless as changing battery on a phone - I don't need these possibilities. and te heat issue hasn't bothered me, even though I've pushed my iMac really hard... So what's wrong with having it all-in-one then?. And that's the Mac philosophy, if that doesn't fit you then maybe Mac isn't for you? Personally I think desktops will become more and more all-in-one. Most people don't realy want to he the ability to operate on their own computers....like with cars.

I agree, besides most PC tower users only open them if they have a problem. Its a myth that PC users update there systems more than Mac users, the most they do is maybe add RAM in a few years or replace the HDD. All other work is one if something breaks. Yes I agree the tower is much easy to work on. I've worked on the HDD and replace the DVD in my G5 PM also added more RAM and cleaned out the dust some times.

Not sure about heat issues, I know my G5 fans scream in the summer when it gets hot, will really have to consider an aircon unit before next summer with my new iMac, its winter here in AU right now.

 

[Crazy82]

mobile GPUs are generally equivalent to a several generations older desktop GPU when it comes to performance. For example the Nvidia GTX 460 M would be about as fast as a desktop GTX 260 M, but has support for newer features like DirectX 11 etc. The mobile ones are designed for low heat, low battery drain etc and that comes at the cost of performance.

That said, the current mobile GPUs are starting to be good enough for lots of things as games etc haven't advanced at the same rate.

As for the iMac, the 27" is a good deal because the display would be rather expensive on its own. That's what most people seem to forget. I would buy one if I didn't already have a huge display and a decent desktop PC. I and most other people just don't need a big noisy box under the table nowadays.

Thanks!

 

[tarimko]

I've actually just replaced a first-generation Mac Pro with a maxed-out 27-inch iMac at the office. The iMac is significantly faster than my old Pro (which was also maxed out, with SSD) as well as on par with a coworker's 3rd-gen Pro. Not a lot of stuff takes advantage of the 8 to 12 cores in a Pro, and an iMac with 32GB of RAM, SSD, and the right Thunderbolt add-ons is tough to beat. I have a ton more room under my desk now for the gear I need to keep as well as a better display than I had before, and just as much expandability through Thunderbolt as I had before with PCIe slots.

Is a Pro ultimately more expandable? Yes. But with Thunderbolt Apple has really eliminated a lot of the problems normally found in the AIO form factor. And until there's a rack-mountable Pro you really can't beat an iMac on an arm mount for ergonomics or ease of positioning.

 

[iSayuSay]

yes actually better. better mobo and better cpu cost 500

apple gives you 4gb ram so I will give my machine 16gb ram total for ram is 100 you are at 600

100 for a case you are at 700


100 for a psu you are at 800

300 for a top of the line gpu you are at 1100

400 for a 500 gb ssd you are at 1500


but wait that is more then 1000 . yeah but apple charges sales tax and you are going to get applecare so the 2000 machine is more like 2500. second link shows the apple imac that I picked to compare my build to.

lastly you can have 2 even 3 1080p screens . 21 inch versions cost 400 to 600 . or you can find a 27 inch dell for 800 .

Well thank you for being much more into details. Pretty crazy and people would hate me for it, but is just braindead about desktop.

I'll keep you in mind when the time comes to build my next tower.

 

[Swordylove]

Yes, the iMac has many disadvantages, but wow... why the tremendous hate? Is anyone putting you at a gunpoint to get an iMac? The only dumbass is the one who can't seem to get that different people have different needs and preferences.

IF Apple sells a quad MacPro + 27" Cinema Display for $2000, would you still pick the iMac over it?

I would pick the MacPro if this dream deal exists.

 

[iSayuSay]

I would pick the MacPro if this dream deal exists.

Well yes, that was my point. Lots of us getting a top specced iMac because we just can't justify to step up (or down?) and buy a MacPro.

So did I, I certainly don't enjoy the AIO form factor & limitation. But it's the only Mac desktop available with adequate performance and reasonable price point.

Make a MacPro deal like what I stated? I believe this iMac forum would be a lot quieter

 

[nufanec]

While I too wish that Apple would make a consumer level tower system again, I completely disagree with you.

Apple appeal to several demographics but the one they make the most money from would choose an iMac every time because it meets their needs. The demographic I'm talking about is of course the every day consumer.

The every day consumer does not really care about how powerful the computer is. Honestly, they don't. As long as it feels snappy it is good enough for the average person. The majority of computers on the market are way over powered for what the average person wants and needs. MOST people don't know how, or even want, to upgrade components inside their computer. The biggest upgrade most people will ever do is a RAM upgrade and Apple make this a lot easier than most companies.

What most people want is a computer that looks good, is reliable and requires little maintenance, is easy to use, and runs the programs they want (which for most people would be an internet browser, an office package, iTunes and a photo package). The basic iMac is good enough for most people.

For people who want more power and flexibility there is the Mac Pro. It's not a good deal at the moment as it hasn't had a proper upgrade in a while but even the current model is way more powerful than the average enthusiast needs if coupled with the right GPU, in which case you can buy a kick ass upgradeable Mac in a tower configuration for well under $3000 direct from Apple. Or wait until next year. Hopefully the new Mac Pro will be great for enthusiasts and professionals alike.

Only reason Apple even went to an All-In-One is because it would sell. The truth is there is NOTHING beneficial about the All-In-One design beyond it looking pretty and neat and being super user friendly for a dumbass that can't plug a monitor, keyboard, and mouse into a tower...

Personally I wish they would drop the AIO design and make a true desktop... How does, taking a bunch of heat producing computer components out of a box with multiple fans designed to properly cool said components and putting them behind the SCREEN (who the hell wants all that heat behind their screen?!) make any since?

All the while they had to sacrifice a great deal of raw computing power to do so... A mobile GPU in a desktop? Ha that's a joke...

AND last but not least... the only iMac thats really worth getting is the maxxed out 27" and of course Apple wants an arm, a leg, two fingers, and one of your kidneys for it... Don't even get me started on how badass of a super computer you could build using Newegg with a $3,000+ budget...

/end rant

However I completely understand why Apple did what they did. The majority of consumers either dont know/or dont care about the stuff above. The average Joe would of course think a screen with no tower is 100x cooler and better...