All MBPs will lose optical drive within a few months

[revelated]

Why not rip your DVDs to hard drive? That way, you always have them.

Already have, but until Solid State Drives drop to reasonable prices (say, $.25/GB), such an option is not practical. Sure, I could throw a 7200 RPM drive in there - I actually have a 500GB one - but then I lose the performance that makes me more efficient. Not an option when I could just take the DVD, pop it in and I'm good to go.

So you think blu-ray doesn't justify the price premium. Why not buy from iTunes? Much more convenient, no discs, same price or cheaper, and you always have your media with you.

*sigh* I shouldn't have to tell people things they already know.

1. Bandwidth caps. The internet providers don't want a free-for-all. They don't want people downloading large amounts of data.
2. Connection speeds. Until we're like other countries and we have 50MB synchronous fiber to the home, downloading is just not practical.
3. Prices. There is no excuse for an old movie like Young Guns to cost $19.99 on iTunes when the DVD is $5 in the bargain bin. Until digital download prices get more reasonable (no more than 30% of the price of the physical media), it's not going to get mass adoption - and by that I mean there will continue to be holdouts.
4. Availability. Not all TV seasons are available for download even if I wanted. All of the Law and Order ones, for example.
5. Movie extras. Downloads do not include extras. No trailers, no behind-the-scenes, no menus, no chapter jump, no BD-Live, nothing. Just the movie. That's fine...but then they need to drop the price accordingly (as stated above).
6. INCLUDED Digital Copy. Why should I pay the same price for an iTunes-only copy when I can do the physical AND get the digital?
7. Timing. I can pick up the DVD/Blu-ray the day it's released, within minutes. Or I can buy it from Amazon and wait a day. The digital download usually takes a few hours, if I'm impatient that's a few hours too long. Fickle? Maybe. But I'm just saying, it's happened.
8. Experience. Buying the DVD/Blu-ray means I can play it on any device that has such a player. I have two PS3s for Blu-rays. I have a 360, a PS2, a MacBook Pro and a 5-disc DVD changer. That's 10 DVD players, two Blu-ray players, so I can play them on the big screen. Digital downloads you're limited to your own computer screen unless you pay for accessories that don't get used frequently.
9. Sharing. I can lend a DVD/Blu-ray. I can't lend a digital copy. Additionally, I could give my INCLUDED digital copy to a friend if I wanted so they could have the movie without paying for it. Buying from iTunes - no.
10. Quality. IT's well known that even HD downloads are not identical to Blu-ray quality in terms of audio or video. HD downloads are compressed to optimize download and therefore do not yield the full experience.

The bottom line is, there are better, more convenient, and cheaper ways to consume media or install software.

The bullets above negate this statement entirely.

For those people who still prefer DVDs, a light external SuperDrive would be an terrific option.

External drive = another piece to carry around, inconvenient, potentially damaged in movement or shipping. The airplane trays are not big enough to have a MacBook and a Superdrive.

Since the majority of people do not use their drive on a regular basis (some people, not at all), it makes no sense to build it into the laptop anymore when that space could be used for something more useful.

Then those people should buy an Air. Leave the MacBook Pro alone.

 

[drjsway]

*sigh* I shouldn't have to tell people things they already know.

Most of the bullets on your "list" is completely irrelevant, such as comparing blu-ray quality to downloads when macs doesn't (and will never) support blu-ray. iTunes is not the only option for digital distribution and there is a lot of competition in that area. The majority of ISPs DO NOT have bandwidth caps.

Never mind the fact that the MBP is primarily a computer, not a home theater. As a format for video, DVD is a dinosaur, using ancient MPEG-2 compression that takes more than 4 times the space it should. If watching quality video on a laptop is important to you, you would've gotten a PC with a blu-ray drive.

 

[gianly1985]

To people worrying about non-tech-savvy users missing the ODD

Windoze non-tech-savvy people have been using this kind of bizarre alien artifact on netbooks and CULVs for years:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2061425/ODD Support.pdf

http://www.engadget.com/photos/samsung-se-s084d/#3077893

40-50$

Mac people will learn too, no big deal. Plus, they come in bright colors.

About the OP

You somehow have a point (though Apple could simply use a more efficient architecture). Also, more evidence: the OSX thumbdrive.

Why now? Why not in 2008 with the first Air? I've been putting (Disk Utility ---> Restore tab) OSX install disc on thumbdrives for ages, why did Apple come up with this ONLY NOW? It's like OTHER macs will also take advantage of it NOW.

Not sure this will happen in the NEXT upgrade, though.

 

[Blues003]

*snip*

What about those who also want to do some gaming on their MBP 13''? They'd be screwed due to the lack of a good dedicated GPU (the Sandy Bridge's IGP probably won't be enough). The ODD removal would solve that.

Also, the 'Quality' point of yours isn't good enough. If you watch content on a MBP you'll never enjoy the 'Full Experience' anyway: it'll make no difference if it's downloaded or if it is a BRay disc. Your argument is true, but at least watch it in a place where you can take advantage of your BR disc. Not to mention the BR support on MBPs is awful at best.

Unless you meant DVDs. But then again, that'd be an even worse experience, no?

 

[Hellhammer]

Timing. I can pick up the DVD/Blu-ray the day it's released, within minutes. Or I can buy it from Amazon and wait a day. The digital download usually takes a few hours, if I'm impatient that's a few hours too long. Fickle? Maybe. But I'm just saying, it's happened.

You must live in a video store then. For me, it takes at least 1.5 hours to go to town, buy the movie and get back to home. Plus that requires me to lift my ass from the chair and actually go somewhere. If I'm downloading it, I can do other things at the same time at home. And what if I want to get a movie at 11pm? Not possible. Online stores, however, are 24/7.

Besides, streaming starts within seconds.

External drive = another piece to carry around, inconvenient, potentially damaged in movement or shipping. The airplane trays are not big enough to have a MacBook and a Superdrive.

You can rip the movie at home before leaving and then watch it on the plane. Much easier than carrying clumsy DVDs with you all the time.

Your Blu-Ray stuff is irrelevant. Macs have a DVD drive and quality wise DVD isn't amazing. If they had Blu-Ray, the whole case would be different. But they don't.

 

[DVD9]

You can rip the movie at home before leaving and then watch it on the plane. Much easier than carrying clumsy DVDs with you all the time.

They need to install gigabit WiFi on planes so you can download from the piratebay.

 

[Jaro65]

:O as a 17" owner i think they should ditch it.

idc what they add to replace it but the last time i used a CD was 2 years ago...and that was only because i found an old disc in my room that i wanted to see what was on it...(found out it was empty...)

but im hoping for 2 hard-drive spaces and slightly larger battery.

Exactly; I'm hoping for the same.

 

[iDave]

<snip> downloads (what idiot decided to call it "digital"? All the music on CDs is digital, all the movies on DVDs are digital) <snip>

I think the term differentiates nicely between digital purchases and physical purchases, even though you are correct.

 

[iDave]

Apple dumped the floppy drive long before most would have expected. I think the same will happen with cd/dvd optical drives. Those who think it's going to take much longer are going to be disappointed, IMO. I think it'll happen in March for most MacBooks and in a year or so for other Macs.

 

[AppleMacFinder]

[*]Bandwidth caps. The internet providers don't want a free-for-all. They don't want people downloading large amounts of data.
[*]Connection speeds. Until we're like other countries and we have 50MB synchronous fiber to the home, downloading is just not practical.

Bandwidth caps :
I thought that all ISPs have unlimited plans nowadays!
Well, maybe not all, but it's very hard to find one.
Also, the internet is very cheap here, in XXI century. And snappy!
I have 12Mbps unlimited data plan PLUS a lot of free local net resources
for just 20$ monthly fee.
And all this - in Russia!

Please, , drop this junky thing from the past (SuperDrive)
out of my shiny MBP Sandy Bridge (which is not produced yet)

 

[astrorider]

The only way to achieve better battery is use the space they gain from removing the optical drive. Apple has not suddenly revolutionized battery technology.

Did you understand my original post? In order to achieve the SAME numbers, they need to increase battery life 35% because they are now using different tests.

Your original post shows the new Macbook Air having 130% battery life than the version from '08. Seems plausible to think it's possible they could find 30% better battery life with the next revision of MBP without ditching the optical drive...

 

[Chase R]

I'm all for the removal of the optical drive, utter waste of space. I'll be there on the day of release if Apple does this. Until then, my 13" UMB will do

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Apple will never release another notebook with a built-in optical drive. I'm sure of it.

As long as there are two drive bays, I'm good with it! One for SSD, one for high-capacity HDD.

 

[revelated]

Most of the bullets on your "list" is completely irrelevant, such as comparing blu-ray quality to downloads when macs doesn't (and will never) support blu-ray. iTunes is not the only option for digital distribution and there is a lot of competition in that area. The majority of ISPs DO NOT have bandwidth caps.

The majority of ISPS do not have ADVERTISED bandwidth caps. You need to understand the distinction. I guarantee you that in most major metros, people have three options: Satellite (which isn't really an option), xDSL (which is too slow) and Cable (which 9 times out of 10 has caps). FiOS isn't universally available. San Diego is one of the largest cities in the country; we don't have FiOS. Why? Who knows. But we don't. That means for speed, you're going with cable. uVerse is a joke except for people who watch heavy TV, in which case the iTunes argument is moot anyway.

Never mind the fact that the MBP is primarily a computer, not a home theater.

Thus negating the value of iTunes and this discussion in the first place. You know better than that. Even Jobs wants people using their Macs as media devices, otherwise iLife would not be free with them.

What about those who also want to do some gaming on their MBP 13''? They'd be screwed due to the lack of a good dedicated GPU (the Sandy Bridge's IGP probably won't be enough). The ODD removal would solve that.

How? You're assuming that Apple would put a "good" dedicated CPU in there. What if they don't? The drive will have been removed for what...to drop weight? Half a pound maybe?

Also, the 'Quality' point of yours isn't good enough. If you watch content on a MBP you'll never enjoy the 'Full Experience' anyway: it'll make no difference if it's downloaded or if it is a BRay disc.

You're again missing the point. I don't know why some of you are missing this simple fact.

A digital download does not have extras.

Thus, you are NOT getting the full experience unless you go physical. Why is that hard for some of you to grasp?

You must live in a video store then. For me, it takes at least 1.5 hours to go to town, buy the movie and get back to home.

Best Buy is 3 minutes away. The benefits of living in a major metro.
It's not my fault you chose to live in the sticks.

Plus that requires me to lift my ass from the chair and actually go somewhere.

Thus the reason America is the fattest nation in the world.

And what if I want to get a movie at 11pm? Not possible. Online stores, however, are 24/7.

RedBox, dude. $1. 24/7.

You can rip the movie at home before leaving and then watch it on the plane. Much easier than carrying clumsy DVDs with you all the time.

Or you can buy the version that includes a Digital Copy and LEGALLY have the copy that you can take on the plane instead of breaking the law.

Bandwidth caps :
I thought that all ISPs have unlimited plans nowadays!
Well, maybe not all, but it's very hard to find one.
Also, the internet is very cheap here, in XXI century. And snappy!
I have 12Mbps unlimited data plan PLUS a lot of free local net resources
for just 20$ monthly fee.
And all this - in Russia!

Anyone who thinks ISP advertised "unlimited" plans don't have caps are fooling themselves. There are numerous articles about this issue all over the web as well as the fact that the US is significantly behind when it comes to bandwidth and internet, due in part to the lack of true competition and the monopolistic behaviors we experience. That negates the true value of digital downloads over local physical copies.

Other factors are storage space and connectivity. A DVD converted to a lossless MKV or H.264 encoded is going to easily exceed the 2GB mark. Until we get to a point that 1TB of data can be stored on a microSD card for less than $100, we're not going to be in a digital age. As far as connectivity, it's a PAIN to have a desire to watch a movie only to be stopped by the fact that you have no internet connection available at the time and are forced to wait. 3G is not practical for downloading HD or even DVD-quality movies. 4G is better, but we know full well about the tiered pricing and caps. NEWSFLASH: THEY DO NOT want you having all-you-can-eat and you know it. Don't sit here and tell me otherwise.

Compare that to the alternative. I'm driving down the road. I'm 2 hours from getting home but I've got nothing to do between that time and I want to watch a movie to kill the time off. Do I: (A) sit in Starbucks for 8 hours like a nerd trying to download a 2GB file? Or (B) stop by the Best Buy that's 3 minutes away, pick up the DVD + Digital Copy, copy it onto my machine and start watching immediately with no delays? Plus have a copy for my big screen when I get home? The choice is obvious, dude.

Then I noticed nobody spoke to the price argument. I'm waiting on pins and needles to hear someone justify to me why a nerfed digital copy costs the same or in some cases MORE than the physical copy that comes with a digital copy. I know why nobody responded: it's because IT MAKES NO SENSE and anyone buying into that is a sucker, I'm sorry.

 

[Chase R]

^^Face it, your in denial man... and you have way too much time on your hands to give such biased quotes to so many members.

The optical drive is destined to be removed sometime next year. There just aren't enough people using it to justify the space that it takes up.

Technology changes and Apple is usually the first to rid computers of such technology (think floppy). Just think of all the great things Apple could do with that much extra space.

 

[Blues003]

How? You're assuming that Apple would put a "good" dedicated CPU in there. What if they don't? The drive will have been removed for what...to drop weight? Half a pound maybe

Yes, I am assuming Apple will put a iX CPU in the MBP 13''. You know, considering they are quite attractive price-wise with Sandy Bridge, and that the 15'' and 17'' already have it as well... Aso, considering that the Core 2 Duos are getting Discontinued. I dunno, I'd say it's at least "likely".

You're again missing the point. I don't know why some of you are missing this simple fact.

A digital download does not have extras.

Thus, you are NOT getting the full experience unless you go physical. Why is that hard for some of you to grasp?

So what if it doesn't have extras? At no point did I refer to the extras. What I argued was the quality argument of yours. It sounds ridiculous for me to actually tell you where in YOUR text the argument is, but for the sake of clarity, it's #10.

It is hard for some of us to grasp because you totally misread what I said. Good job.

P.S. Nice way of cutting my words and making them sound like I said something else. Here's what you missed:

Your argument is true, but at least watch it in a place where you can take advantage of your BR disc. Not to mention the BR support on MBPs is awful at best.

Unless you meant DVDs. But then again, that'd be an even worse experience, no?


For the full experience, a laptop is never the way to go.

 

[Tilpots]

I'm all for the removal of the optical drive, utter waste of space. I'll be there on the day of release if Apple does this.

You're way late. The MBA has been out for years.

 

[revelated]

^^Face it, your in denial man... and you have way too much time on your hands to give such biased quotes to so many members.

The optical drive is destined to be removed sometime next year. There just aren't enough people using it to justify the space that it takes up.

Technology changes and Apple is usually the first to rid computers of such technology (think floppy). Just think of all the great things Apple could do with that much extra space.

You need to study history.

The 5.25 died because a superior format came in the form of the 3.5. The 3.5 still isn't dead, it got relegated to an external, but what caused that was not a lack of value, but rather the fact that the size of things got too big for it, thus the onset of CD-R and CD-RW, as well as USB to a lesser degree. It was SIZED out of the market. It wasn't just removed for the sake of removing it.

I'm all for distributing software on convenient USB flash sticks, as long as the price goes down accordingly and the software vendors use less packaging. But that doesn't negate all of the vendors who can't or won't go that route and I say the optical drive should stay in the Pro. People who don't want the drive - as mentioned by Tilpots and me in an earlier post, GO BUY A MACBOOK AIR.

 

[firestarter]

You need to study history.

Apple got rid of the floppy from their range and went all optical well ahead of the rest of the market. They've always forced the market, rather than having the market force them.

The optical drive will be dropped sooner rather than later - and Apple will probably be the first company to do it.

That is what history teaches.

 

[revelated]

Apple got rid of the floppy from their range and went all optical well ahead of the rest of the market. They've always forced the market, rather than having the market force them.

The optical drive will be dropped sooner rather than later - and Apple will probably be the first company to do it.

That is what history teaches.

So what do you propose people do who buy said mythical machine only to find that internet access is required in order to get anything done? What do you suppose would happen if people went to stores and asked for a particular piece of software only to find their computer won't support the media? Mind you, there are literally THOUSANDS of software pieces out there. What do you suppose the people with no internet - nor plans to get internet - are to do? Do you think it's practical to exclude them from your vision? Because that's exactly what would happen.

You're placing bets on a transition that has a critical dependency - internet access, something not everyone has or wants. The transition away from 3.5 wasn't nearly as difficult because it wasn't dependent on anything else. DO you realize how many people are still on dialup with no plans to leave it?

And another thing. Do you understand how much Best Buy, Frys, etc. would pitch a fit over such a transition? It would basically empty an entire section of their store and cut DEEP into their pockets.

Another thing. What about schools that distribute school books and things via CD-ROM and don't have the technology - or the inclination - to move to the USB distribution? What about the Dummies books and all of the books in libraries that have flash cards and things on CD-ROM? DO you expect them to throw away hundreds of thousands of dollars just because a few people don't like having a CD drive in their computer?

I keep coming back with other things, it's a domino effect and you're only looking at the first domino. There are too many ramifications for such a shock. And before you say "Buy an external!!!" Do you really think people will feel justified paying nearly $100 for the privilege of running a CD that every other computer on the market besides Apple can play out of the box? Come on...think!

 

[Chase R]

You're way late. The MBA has been out for years.

GO BUY A MACBOOK AIR.

So what makes the MacBook Pro, a "Pro," is it's inclusion of an optical drive?

The optical drive will be dropped fairly soon. I'm not sure why this is such a surprise to you? After all, you say you do know history.

So what do you propose people do who buy said mythical machine only to find that internet access is required in order to get anything done? What do you suppose would happen if people went to stores and asked for a particular piece of software only to find their computer won't support the media? Mind you, there are literally THOUSANDS of software pieces out there. What do you suppose the people with no internet - nor plans to get internet - are to do? Do you think it's practical to exclude them from your vision? Because that's exactly what would happen.

You're placing bets on a transition that has a critical dependency - internet access, something not everyone has or wants. The transition away from 3.5 wasn't nearly as difficult because it wasn't dependent on anything else. DO you realize how many people are still on dialup with no plans to leave it?

And another thing. Do you understand how much Best Buy, Frys, etc. would pitch a fit over such a transition? It would basically empty an entire section of their store and cut DEEP into their pockets.

Another thing. What about schools that distribute school books and things via CD-ROM and don't have the technology - or the inclination - to move to the USB distribution? What about the Dummies books and all of the books in libraries that have flash cards and things on CD-ROM? DO you expect them to throw away hundreds of thousands of dollars just because a few people don't like having a CD drive in their computer?

I keep coming back with other things, it's a domino effect and you're only looking at the first domino. There are too many ramifications for such a shock. And before you say "Buy an external!!!" Do you really think people will feel justified paying nearly $100 for the privilege of running a CD that every other computer on the market besides Apple can play out of the box? Come on...think!

Those people are very much the minority (if you've noticed, Apple does NOT cater to to the minority), and it's called an EXTERNAL DRIVE.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

The optical drive will be dropped fairly soon.

Why, because the Air doesn't have an optical drive?

One could only assume that the MBA and the MBP serve two different purposes...........

 

[firestarter]

revelated, you're conveniently forgetting that THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED.

Apple has already got a successful line of computers which don't have optical storage - it's the MacBook Air! They're selling very well and nothing bad has happened to their owners.

Most Mac owners DO NOT buy third party software. The Mac is moving closer to the appliance model - home users buy a Mac preinstalled with iLife and iWork - and they have everything they need.

Out soon is the App store. That really makes it easy to do without optical app distribution!

At a certain point, optical device usage becomes a minority application, rather than majority. And at that point it's no longer cost/weight efficient to fit it to a machine where it's not needed.

Even a frequent optical drive user with a laptop would probably be better off with their drive external rather than integrated. All the times you're NOT installing software you can benefit from a smaller and lighter device.

And why do you think Apple cares about Best Buy, Frys etc? Apple wants you to buy software from them via iTunes. Did Apple care about the record and CD shops? No!

 

[gianly1985]

Why, because the Air doesn't have an optical drive?

One could only assume that the MBA and the MBP serve two different purposes...........

Do they? Will they? (optical_drive-wise I mean)

Is it fair/statistically_justified to encumber EVERY MBP users with +53% weight just and +100% thickness just to save SOME users from the inconvenience of using a USB optical drive?

Why removing the optical drive HAS to be BOUND to making the HDD/SSD and RAM not user-accessible?

And so on....

We need figures about the usage of the ODD, only then we can say if it's fair to keep it inside or push it outside (USB).

 

[revelated]

revelated, you're conveniently forgetting that THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED.

Apple has already got a successful line of computers which don't have optical storage - it's the MacBook Air! They're selling very well and nothing bad has happened to their owners.

Dude, are you kidding me? The Air is selling good. It is NOT outselling the 13" MacBook Pro and it's definitely not outselling the white MacBook. Those are the two of the entire Apple line sans iPad that Apple are selling like mad. The Air has limitations and people know it. I guarantee you the first thing people look for when buying their next Apple laptop is features - and when they see that the Air, at the SAME PRICE as the white MacBook, does not have a CD drive, has less RAM and has a lower powered processor, they're thinking twice about buying it. Hell, I know people that refuse to buy Air just because it doesn't have a backlit keyboard - a blatant omission.

In any event, let's assume for the sake of argument your statement is valid. That means as I said, The Pro can be left alone. If you don't want the optical drive, buy an Air. If you want an optical drive, buy the Pro. That's a much more business-smart approach than saying they're going to gut opticals across the board. FFS, they even put an optical in the Mac Mini Server - and guess what, it's required.