All Things X-Men

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Huntn, Feb 1, 2011.

  1. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #1
    The 4 X-Men movies have been outstanding, but I've been a little annoyed that the movies have almost completely trashed the comic version's time line and relationships. A new X-Men movie is due out this Summer called X-Men: First Class, that explores the early years of Charles Xavier and Eric Lehnsherr's friendship and their schism.

    As someone who has read the comics starting from the 1960's up through 1981. (still working my way through the comics) there is absolutely no indication that The Professor and Magneto were ever friends. Have there been later issues that delve into the Professor and Magnetos's childhoods establishing a basis for friendship at any point in their lives?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #2
    I too am assuming that this history between Xavier and Magneto is something cooked up in the decades since I stopped reading X-Men. I was an avid reader of "The Uncanny X-Men" during the early 80's, during the Dark Phoenix saga, and I've read some of the older stuff from the 60's and 70's, but I kinda stopped reading after Jean got killed off and John Byrne left.

    Having said that: I thought the movies were OK, and I'll certainly be seeing the new one. Hugh Jackman has done a great job playing Wolverine, in my opinion, and I really liked Alan Cumming's portrayal of Nightcrawler in the second movie, but I thought the casting of Kelsey Grammer as Beast in the third movie was really brilliant. The rest of the characters, well... eh.
     
  3. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #3
    I heard the actual working title for the movie was originally, "X-Men: Moneygrab".
     
  4. dXTC macrumors 68020

    dXTC

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    #4
    I don't know about their respective childhoods. However, I do remember that, in recent years, Magneto "saw the light" for a time and was a stand-in leader while the Professor was incapacitated (or kidnapped? Something like that). Comic-book historical continuity has always been rather sketchy, no matter how much attention is thrown its way by writers, so just about anything can be pencilled in and "removed" later. DC's Crisis On Infinite Earths and subsequent timeline-altering Crisis events are proof enough of that.

    I think having Magneto and Prof. X as rivals is much more interesting in terms of overall plot, anyway.

    Magneto got to be the hero again in an alternate universe, though, namely the Marvel Zombie universe. Now there's a moneygrab for ya...
     
  5. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #5
    Uncanny X-Men #161, September 1982. The website contains a synopsis, so spoiler alert.
     
  6. dXTC macrumors 68020

    dXTC

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    #6
    Impressive. I knew there had to be a Marvel or X-Men expert somewhere on MR. (I'm somewhat of a noob in that respect.)
     
  7. neko girl macrumors 6502a

    neko girl

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    #7
    I'd like to correct you. There was no 4th X-Men movie, just like there wasn't a 2nd Highlander.

    !!
     
  8. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #8
    There can only be one?
     
  9. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #9
    That is one way to view it. I have enjoyed all of the X-Men movies immensely. :)

    It seems to indicate when they (Xavier and Magneto) first met in a flashback they worked together briefly. It's annoying that in the 1960's encounters, Xavier never spoke of Magnetos past. Of course maybe the writers had not yet thought about it. ;)

    In my defense, it is called 'X-Men Origins: Wolverine'. :)
     
  10. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #10
    Man, that web site could turn into a real time sink for me if it I let it. ;)

    Solely based on the covers that I recognize, it looks like I started collecting Uncanny X-Men around issue #126 (October '79) and stopped around issue #144 (April '81). Only a year and a half; it seemed so much longer then.
     
  11. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #11
    I collected comics in the 80's and early 90's with X-Men being one of my favorites. As it has been mentioned during this time period the past relationship between Professor X and Magneto is alluded to on occasion. The issue referenced by Mousse is a direct telling of a past experience, but the many other references leads one to believe that there is more than just that one encounter.

    Here's an interesting article written on the relationship and philosophies of Xavier and Magneto.

    In the article is states:

     
  12. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #12
    My post:
    I brought this over from another X-Men thread. I've asked the moderators to close the other thread.

    Thanks for this info, the link, and refreshing my memory. I lost track of my previous X-Men thread. Mental lapse. I'll refer back to the original thread. No I did not read the article but I will. I do realize that the X-Men movies are an alternate reality as compared to the comics. :) I just read the linked article. My critique of it is that is does not reference it's sources for the described history. If you look at the early stories, Magneto is a meglomaniac and he has an organization called "evil mutants" I assume not because he is a good guy but because he is evil!! So what interests me would be a reference in the comics to this WWII history and Xavier and Magneto's friendship. Any ideas?

    Yes I remember. This appears to be the story according to the movie not the comics at least of what I've read in the original comics. No mention in the original comic is made by Xavier regarding knowing who Magneto is much less having a friendship with him. That is why I asked about a reboot or a clarification on the early days. Thanks for you input! :)
     
  13. Juventuz macrumors 6502a

    Juventuz

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    #13
    In regards to your question, no Magneto never helped Xavier set up his school. It's true that they had formed a friendship before then, back when Xavier was visiting Israel, but after their fight with Baron Wolfgang von Strucker and the Hydra agents Magneto and Xavier parted ways. Magneto felt that his version of human/mutants relations was opposite Xavier's. Xavier mulled about for a while longer, staying in Israel for a bit (and knocking up a woman named Gabrielle) before he returns to the US and opens up the Institute.

    One theory on why they used Evil for the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants was postulated by the Toad of all characters, he said that it's irony, based upon the perceived notion that all mutants are "evil." You'll notice that often times they're referred to simply as the Brotherhood of Mutants or just the Brotherhood.

    In the comics Xavier and Magneto never served in WWII. Magneto's family were killed by Nazi's and Magneto escaped with Magda to the Ukraine, where they had a girl who was killed (and she was pregnant with Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch). Xavier fought in the Korean War, and actually served along side with Carmen Pryde... Kitty Pryde's dad.

    One thing is for certain about the X-Movies, they've taken great liberties from the comics. While I enjoyed most of the movies, for the most part, overall they've been somewhat of a disappointment for me. X-Men Origins: Wolverine was an absolute sham, it was horrible.
     
  14. mscriv, Mar 29, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011

    mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #14
    I'm not sure about a reference for the WWII history in the actual comics, but the reference for their meeting and "friendship" is the link provided above by Mousse. Uncanny X-Men issue #161 tells the story of their meeting and early relationship.

    Edit: Wikipedia has a pretty good synopsis of the information you are looking for:

    and

    Link
     
  15. Huntn, Mar 29, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2011

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #15
    Thanks guys, especially MSCRIV, Juventuz, and Mousse for the info. In my reading I'm only up to Issue 145 (1981) or so.
     
  16. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #16
    I'm up to Issue 152 and reference was made to Magneto's childhood suffering in a Nazi Concentration Camp.

    I realize I'm a whiner when it comes to X-Men movies, but it bugs the heck out of me when major mutants like Angel and Kitty Pryde are practically reduced to bit players in the movie version, although I acknowledge that Kitty did some stuff in X3. :p
     
  17. Huntn, Oct 27, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #17
    X-Men: Days of Future Past (2014)- Alternate realities are starting to wear on me. In the original X-Men (2000), as I recall the presence of mutants was not well known and in X-Men 2 we know there was a military mutant program with William Striker. But mutants were still not well known until The Last Stand (2006) and the San Francisco incident.

    Then with the flashback movies we know there was a huge incident with the Cuban Missile crisis in the early 60s with mutant powers on display to thousands of people.

    And don't forget that Professor Xavier got blown to bits in The Last Stand. So how did he end up being alive in the original "future" with Sentinnels? I agree that with this Logan time travel event, the change that occurs during the Nixon Administration (approx 1972), allows for the ressurection of both the Professor and Jean Gray, but in the original time line, the Professor would not be alive in the future. If I'm not mistaken, the entire history of the first 3 movies has to be ignored to allow for Mistique to kill Trask in 1972 and start the 50 year or longer Sentinel War.

    xmen-days-of-future-past.jpg

    If I'm mistaken, please set me straight. If not, I don't appreciate these kinds of liberties with the established X-Men movies timeline. I miss the original Mystique who was much better than Jennifer Lawrence although I realize this is the young Raven we are seeing. :)

    X-Men Movie Timeline: http://xmenmovies.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline
     
  18. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

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    #18
    IIRC, there was an after credits scene in the Last Stand which indicated Xavier was still alive as a result of a mind swap mutant thing. Basically, he put his psyche in the head of a brain dead twin of his (you know, because people just have those...?). This is all based on memory, but there is a reason this worked the way it did.
     
  19. Huntn, Oct 27, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #19
    Thank you, Lol! Somehow I missed that scene. It's always good to keep your brain-dead twin around? So that is why he was not in a wheel chair in the future. :) the original X-men crew are really showing their ages, at least some of them. ;)
     
  20. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    #20
    Between XMFC and XMDOFP there really isn't any other X-men movies. While I did like the first one's, these two are my favorite by far.
     
  21. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #21
    Too important of a discussion not to be in a X-Men dedicated thread, moved from The Movie thread:

    Actually I agree with you quit a bit, the series is hit and miss. I just won't let X-Men 1&2 be described as a cluster, if that's what you did, without comment unless you are references Singer's later contributions. :)

    I definitely do not like Jennifer Laurence's Mistique, and in the movies, although they are at odds (Professor and Magneto) I could swallow them being described as buds in X-Men 1 (or was it 2?) but I did not appreciate an entire alternate reality as created in First Class, in fact I disliked FC. Mostly this has what the movies have done, with the blessing of Marvel, bastardos! :)

    Sure have lots of X-Men (and women) around, but the story will generally be better if they focus on just one or two of them. I agree with you that Scott Summers was short changed, in fact most of the X-men have and although Jean Gray has had ample screen time, if you can call it the Dark Phoenix Saga Reference, X-Men The Last Stand was a cluster and in the annals of X-Men movie history, a golden opportunity was thoughily squandered. Using the perspective of the entire X-Men movie series, I could be a minority here, but the best ones focused on a small group, a decent story, allowed for character development and are consistent. I've just had to forget about faithfulness to source material as a benchmark. That said...

    The best imo, (yes, I can be a broken record :p) would be X-Men 1&2 which focused on Wolverine's history and his discovery of how he became who he was and it was complemented nicely by the X-Men Origins Movie: Wolverine, while acknowleging this as an alternate reality. There was a Colonel Stryker, however as far as I know, he had nothing to do with Weapon X the sinister Canadian military based research group that turned Wolverine into an ademantium wielding slicer. Did Wolverine ever experience a period of amnesia because of an ademantium bullet to the brain? No clue. :D
     
  22. kazmac macrumors 601

    kazmac

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    #22
    Some valid arguments but after at least 5 films that deal with Xavier, Magento, Mystique and Logan other characters should get more screen time and be developed so you can move forward with the franchise; which apparently is what Fox are scrambling to do now (the Legion show on FX, Deadpool and possibly New Mutants). I am not surprised Fox are panicking because Hugh Jackman is gone after Logan and ...Apocalypse didn't fare as well as Fox hoped at the box office. So for me, Singer etc. made a mistake in dwelling on the same characters and not developing others and now this is coming back to haunt these films.

    As I loved the Team X stories (an alternate history Cold War mutant spec ops unit in the Marvel U (with Logan, Sabertooth, Wraith, Maverick and sometimes Silver Fox)), I loved the idea of mutants as the potential trigger for the Cuban Missle Crisis in FC. The alternate history and good job with nailing elements of the 60s was a huge reason why First Class is still a favorite of mine. They ultimately created their own story, tweaking some origins and it worked quite well to me. I enjoy alternate history stories (especially Cold War tales) so that was right up my alley.

    Last Stand you said everything there is to say.

    Frankly, I think I've outgrown (surprising) the earlier X-Men films, but I understand why fans of the comics and fans of those films enjoy them. To each their own...

    Regarding Logan and the adamantium bullet, I do not remember them doing this in the comics; but I thought that was pretty clever. One of the few things that worked for me in that movie beyond Liev who was great as Sabertooth / Victor Creed.
     
  23. kazmac macrumors 601

    kazmac

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    #23
    @Huntn Stryker replaced the scientist Dr. Cornelius from Barry Windsor-Smith's Weapon X. (Dang it, I was running Wolverine, Team X and Maverick fan sites nearly two decades ago and I've pretty much forgotten almost everything about Logan, but fragments of Weapon X and Team X remain (especially the utterly insane Terry Adams arc which ran in Wolverine 66-68 > added bonus: Logan was drawn like Clint Eastwood).
     
  24. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #24
    Thanks, I'm not familiar with that part of the print (comic) legacy. The question is was he involved in the experiments on Logan and did Logan volunteer? :D I remember the early episodes of X-men (comic) where Logan first appeared and he made references to the Canadian military, but I don't remember if he used the phrase Weapon X... maybe he did. :oops:
     
  25. kazmac macrumors 601

    kazmac

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    #25

    I am sure you can guess which way that went...:D
    Logan was beaten up, drugged and experimented upon against his will
    I admit I never read much X-Men. I prefer solo characters to team based books and began reading Wolverine simply because I saw the 1982 mini series in a comic shop and thought "Oh weird guy with eyepatch and claws what's up with that?" :cool: Is he like Snake Plissken? :p:rolleyes::p I pretty much stuck to Wolverine's book for almost 20 years, but was peripherally aware of the X-Men themselves. So I basically read the "outer core" X-Men book.

    All that said, I'm unable to answer your question if Claremont ever had Logan mention Weapon X by name; I do remember Department H and Canadian military, but am fuzzy on the name Weapon X so I do not know if WX is Claremont's invention or that of Barry Windsor-Smith.
     

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