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Smart HDR and dynamic video are not innovation? The neural engine is not innovation? Saying that apple "copied" a third lens is akin to saying apple copied a bigger phone with the iphone 6. Or that fashion designers copied a narrower lapel. It's all in the same realm of thought.
No, don’t you know that Samsung invented the concept of cameras with three focal lengths?

It was so innovative that Leica went back in time and copied the concept.

I mean, most photographers know about 28mm and 50mm, or 50mm and 90mm, but there’s never been a photographer who’s thought it would be a good idea to have *three* focal lengths.

It’s that kind of genius innovation that keeps Samsung at the front of the pack, don’t you know.
 
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sorry if I misunderstood, maybe I did
I also will like to hear or read your insights as well too
for a second there I thought that you were just asking for me to keep writing
like you were doing it on purpose, like let me keep the bothering this guy
so he keeps writing

but if I see that you write then I don't have any problem writing back to you
that's why I said
"I also will like to hear or read your insights as well too"
I apologies for my comment maybe I did misunderstood and had a wrong impression
but I felt that way because you were asking short questions and you weren't writing back
so I thought that you were trying to play me

hope is clear now
regards
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I think this explained apple actions, they are not innovating any more, is obvious , they are simply trying to catchup with samsung, apple should lead not follow. but they trying to squeeze every drop of juice as much as they possible can, giving less for more, but when the competition gets tough then they decide to upgrade and make some changes, but is really because they are being forced to by the competition, so now we all know why apple is coming out with a 3rd lens, because samsung already have a phone with 3 lens, very original mr cook, stop playing the copy game and come out with your own inventions or at least lead the way, that how it used to be until you became CEO
Wouldn't go that far

Air pods and apple watch are innovative products that aren't really matched on the market

Phones wide air lately nothing has been groundbreaking but each year I think it's harder and harder to innovate

We can say iPhones are boring but they just work with no adjusting like you do with android phones...no switching stuff off everything syncs...so while it may seem apple are behind in features they are certainly far closer than it was
 
Wouldn't go that far

Air pods and apple watch are innovative products that aren't really matched on the market

Phones wide air lately nothing has been groundbreaking but each year I think it's harder and harder to innovate

We can say iPhones are boring but they just work with no adjusting like you do with android phones...no switching stuff off everything syncs...so while it may seem apple are behind in features they are certainly far closer than it was
agreed but what I was trying to say is that apple should not wait for others to see how things workout for them
apple could easily came out with a 3rd len before anyone else, so the fact that another company did it before them is just shows that apple is afraid of failure, is good to be cautions but some times we have to take a risk if we want to lead

who was the guy who sent the kite to the sky?

I think that apple was cheaping out on parts or trying to get the most of their phones without spending too much or extra on parts, but since samsung has phone with 3 lens then apple has no other choice but to counter with a phone with 3 lens, really hope they use good quality materials, cause the last time the cameras on the Macs wasn't looking that great even compared with older models

I want to make something clear, I'm not a troll or a hater even if it look that way
I like apple but since mr cook became CEO apple quality has been lower
no more the high standards that once made apple the company with the best high quality products in the world

they might be a trillion dollar company but they has lower their standards
I want them to be like they used to be, so I can feel the same way I used to feel about them and since mr cook is CEO I just don't feel that way anymore

but I do like apple, I just don't like mr cook, I'v spoken from the heart
:D
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Smart HDR and dynamic video are not innovation? The neural engine is not innovation? Saying that apple "copied" a third lens is akin to saying apple copied a bigger phone with the iphone 6. Or that fashion designers copied a narrower lapel. It's all in the same realm of thought.
hello there I7guy, yes you are correct but my point is that they should try to be 1st not 2nd
you should come out with something new or fresh first
let me give you an example
even if apple improves the technology and make the 3 lens technology works on an iPhone a million times better than a 3 lens can do on a samsung phone

guess who would gets all the credit
samsung, why because they did it first, is the breakthrough that is what makes the difference, that's what it counts

anybody now can take a boat and try to rediscover America
they might do it faster than Christopher Columbus because we have faster boats now
but he did it first, so he is the one in the books and he is the one that made history

but that is just my opinion
:)
 
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guess who would gets all the credit
samsung, why because they did it first, is the breakthrough that is what makes the difference, that's what it counts

anybody now can take a boat and try to rediscover America
they might do it faster than Christopher Columbus because we have faster boats now
but he did it first, so he is the one in the books and he is the one that made history

but that is just my opinion
:)
Lol you just proved yourself wrong

Columbus wasn’t the first to discover America, he just ‘did it better’ lol
 
Lol you just proved yourself wrong

Columbus wasn’t the first to discover America, he just ‘did it better’ lol

Not even that. Columbus tried to do something, failed, but got rich off of the error (by doing terrible things). I don't know there is a lesson in that for phone makers.

The reality is that mos everything that happens in the industry would happen, more or less, if you removed any of the big players. People across the field are aware of what is possible. Smaller firms make done advancement a little ahead of the rest and are snatched up by the giants. It is generally a mistake to talk about "copying".
 
Seriously. Fire Jonathan "Notch" Ive.

Honestly I don't understand the aversion to the notch. I try. I'm stiil to this day curious about how others discovered their dislike of it.

I pick the phone up and try to view it with fresh eyes, try to imagine how much I hate it. Crickets...

When I'm watching video, the notch "just goes away", so... ?

I mostly use the device for reading:

The display specs of my XR make it wonderfully easy on the eyes for that. The usable bits of screen to left and right of the notch emphasize seemingly natural locations for menus, settings, bookmark placement and so forth.
 
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The camera house is weird. It doesn't look like an Apple design.

iPhone 6 back didn't look as Apple design, but...
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Honestly I don't understand the aversion to the notch. I try. I'm stiil to this day curious about how others discovered their dislike of it.

I pick the phone up and try to view it with fresh eyes, try to imagine how much I hate it. Crickets...

When I'm watching video, the notch "just goes away", so... ?

I mostly use the device for reading:

The display specs of my XR make it wonderfully easy on the eyes for that. The usable bits of screen to left and right of the notch emphasize seemingly natural locations for menus, settings, bookmark placement and so forth.

Just one world GAMES

Apple force developers to make the apps without hidding the nothc, so you can't put black bands to both ends in order to hide it. Is so stupid, they are saying
"ey! you are not allowed to put black bands because this could be interpreted as our design isn't perfect, so make your game look odd and awful but don't mess with our perfect solution"

please, think different again!!!!
 
Slight exaggeration, but the point Apple is on the slide and it’s devastatingly disappointing.

I would wait on iOS 13 before saying this...

Rumours for iPhone 11 may not be amazing but there’s only so much to improve and not like we have had many rumours apart from cameras/reverse wireless charging and faster charger in the box...

It’s becoming harder to add more features to flagships it’s why sales are down across the board

iOS is still the best OS out there...
 
"Waaaa, notch." -people who aren't engineers
"Waaaa, camera bump." -people who will spend 90% of the time only looking at the front of the phone
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I'm less concerned with the amount of lenses, and more curious on what they are going to do with them.
Agreed. While some companies are adding zoom (yes please), I have a feeling this will be an even wider angle lens (possibly AR tech?).
 
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"Waaaa, notch." -people who aren't engineers
"Waaaa, camera bump." -people who will spend 90% of the time only looking at the front of the phone
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Agreed. While some companies are adding zoom (yes please), I have a feeling this will be an even wider angle lens (possibly AR tech?).
Kind of contradicting yourself...saying people shouldn't complain about the notch...then saying people shouldn't complain about the camera bump because they look at the front of the phone 90% of the time. Well that means they have to look at the notch 90% of the time.

Because people are not engineers they shouldn't complain about something they dislike where they see for themselves arguably better implementations on other phones?
 
No, don’t you know that Samsung invented the concept of cameras with three focal lengths?

It was so innovative that Leica went back in time and copied the concept.

I mean, most photographers know about 28mm and 50mm, or 50mm and 90mm, but there’s never been a photographer who’s thought it would be a good idea to have *three* focal lengths.

It’s that kind of genius innovation that keeps Samsung at the front of the pack, don’t you know.
What about Portrait mode? (this was actually created by HTC years earlier, with mixed results)
 
Kind of contradicting yourself...saying people shouldn't complain about the notch...then saying people shouldn't complain about the camera bump because they look at the front of the phone 90% of the time. Well that means they have to look at the notch 90% of the time.

Because people are not engineers they shouldn't complain about something they dislike where they see for themselves arguably better implementations on other phones?
Oh, I'm saying people shouldn't shouldn't complain about any of it. These are the same people who complain that Apple doesn't innovate, then complain when Apple attempts to add new hardware features that somehow aren't flush with/near invisible within the footprint of the existing design. Complaining about have to look at the notch is funny because the tech within the notch is literally there to look at you. Hey, I'd love a clean, full device screen, but as of now it seems as though this can't be hidden underneath the screen as its view would be obscured so this is where we are. Other phones out there either don't contain the same level of tech, blend theirs into a top bezel or have pop-up front cameras. It seems as though hardware makers have reached the limits of how little space these things can take up, other than further decreasing the battery size (no thanks). Apple pulled some wizardry in how small the Airpods case is in comparison to others out there, so if anyone wants smaller and less obtrusive, it's them.
 
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Honestly I don't understand the aversion to the notch. I try. I'm stiil to this day curious about how others discovered their dislike of it.

I pick the phone up and try to view it with fresh eyes, try to imagine how much I hate it. Crickets...

When I'm watching video, the notch "just goes away", so... ?

I mostly use the device for reading:

The display specs of my XR make it wonderfully easy on the eyes for that. The usable bits of screen to left and right of the notch emphasize seemingly natural locations for menus, settings, bookmark placement and so forth.

I'm not sure one can define a reason for ones taste and preference. I could say that, from an esthetic standpoint the notch is unbalanced. That is true, but won't explain why I find the design so utterly miserable.

Perhaps the best way I could explain is to suggest thinking of individual preference in other areas besides phone or device design. Why does one become attracted to a particular car, or street appeal of a house, for example. Or even that "love at first sight" attraction to another human. Sometimes those things are intangible, but are there.

Even when I see a screen capture of a white background with that notch at the top, I cringe. It is just so unappealing to me at a deep level. For phone design, I've always been more attracted to the type of designs coming from some of the Android manufacturers. To me they are unobtrusive and very appealing. Unfortunately, they don't have iOS.
 
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Same Design, same thick bezels, same notch. What’s new ? A third camera Lens on the back. Wow innovation :confused:


those spoiled teenage girlies iphones users are now having a hard time to think of how to showoff obviously they have the 2019 iphone when it looks the 2017 iphone.
 
Why does one become attracted to a particular car, or street appeal of a house, for example. Or even that "love at first sight" attraction to another human. Sometimes those things are intangible, but are there.

You're right... bottom line it's what speaks to us personally when it comes to what we like or dislike about gear or anything else with both a cosmetic and functional aspect. I've had to bite my tongue a few times over the enthusiasm of some of my family members for home designs I don't really care for.

It's probably pretty normal to end up in category of "I know what I don't like even if I'm open to the idea of looking at designs that might appeal to me."

Certainly that could apply to iPhone designs, not just houses. I was enticed by the XR's wonderful display spec and though I don't like the size compared to my SE, and I have reverted to the SE for phone use, the XR gets daily use for other applications and now nearly rivals my use of a mini-iPad for general reading (except magazines) and video podcast consumption.

Anyway the next time out the box with iPhone designs, for me any cosmetic issues are likely to be about materials and finish. Love the XR yellow... I'm not a real fan of the SE finish but I love the size and the sturdiness so I stick any one of some jellybean color silicon cases on that to liven up its look a little. On the X line, a notch or not-notch gets a shrug. And whatever a triple-camera "bump" might look like, I will probably not notice that either... once I get a case on the thing and a flush surface on the back. :)
 
Lol you just proved yourself wrong

Columbus wasn’t the first to discover America, he just ‘did it better’ lol
ok but what about the 2 brothers that made the first airplane or they wasn't the first one either
lol
how about the guy that invented the first car but people will say that he wasn't the first either
some will make history and others will try to change history by saying that it didn't happened that way
or it was someone else first before that

I will have to write to who ever is in charge of the history books and tell them to fix them
also I will have to contact the district school and tell them to tell the teachers to stop teaching lies in school

maybe I was wrong about Columbus but my point is right even if I might have used a wrong example

peace

Later on in 1497, Amerigo Vespucci, another Italian explorer claimed to have discovered America. Martin Waldseemuller was the first to name this huge land mass as America. However, one cannot say for sure that Columbus and Amerigo Vespucci were the first to discover this huge continent. The Chinese claim that they discovered America long before the voyages undertaken by Europeans sailors.
 
Honestly I don't understand the aversion to the notch. I try. I'm stiil to this day curious about how others discovered their dislike of it.


I personally get irritated by how binary and extreme so many opinions seem to be on this. I don't find the notch (or other solutions, like cutouts) neither go away nor are some devastating eyesore. These things are just compromises that add some value (such as FaceID with a high screen/body ratio) with some cost (the top edge being uneven, making it imperfect for some media content).

Hell, I feel like this about a lot of these discussions. There are advantages and disadvantages to all of the biometric authentication solutions. All of those solutions are compromises. Facial recognition is better under some circumstances. So is a traditional FPS, and in-screen FPS, and a back of the phone FPS. None are terrible ideas. None are perfect. But people are so intent on proving their point they go to absolute, and extreme positions.

Apple doesn't innovate (when it clearly does). Only Apple innovates, which everyone else just copies (when this is clearly not true). Apple doesn't do things first, but it does things best (except when it doesn't). Apple just plays catch-up (except when it doesn't). Not everything has to be binary.

Ok. This started as a comment on your comment, and ended up as a random rant. Sorry.
 
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Not even that. Columbus tried to do something, failed, but got rich off of the error (by doing terrible things). I don't know there is a lesson in that for phone makers.

The reality is that mos everything that happens in the industry would happen, more or less, if you removed any of the big players. People across the field are aware of what is possible. Smaller firms make done advancement a little ahead of the rest and are snatched up by the giants. It is generally a mistake to talk about "copying".
ok I partially agreed or agreed until certain point
yes unfortunately we are in the era where people or companies don't have self-esteem or dignity
what I like about myself is that I try to be different and unique, yes I'm a human like every one else
but I got my own style, I dress, I talk , I act , I behave different than everyone else
for me where I come from, the way I am, copying is a shame
I'm giving you this example but the same can be said for companies

but I guess when they run out of ideas they have to borrow some from the competition
when fans are talking about their system and devices and they mentioned my phone has this feature
guess what will come up in the conversation
yes but this company had it first then that other company copied from us
and that right there will make your company look inferior

but for some someone who don't understand this is alright to copied others
well if a woman goes to a party and see another girl with the same dress , the same hair style with the same hair color
I'm sure she will want to go home and change

yes all the iPhone has the same external appearance at least the same models but if you ask the person let me see or hold your phone

then you will see that the way that person has that phone setup is different to your setup and every one else setup
including apps and settings
people at least the ones that have dignity don't want to copied others
the ones that wants to copy us , is people that feel inferior and want to be like us
I sure as hell I don't want to be like anyone else, I want to be me
unique and different, girls love that

well customers also love that from their prefer company
but unless the person is a proud person then no one will understand my point

windows 10 copied many features from Mac OS or should I say borrow or stole many features
how you think a proud windows 10 user feels when he talks about w10 and how nice it is
to then a Mac user tell him , yes but all those features came from mac

copying others is an embarrassment

apple should set the example but Tim is not the right man
the right man with a real man or macho attitude will say
"we don't have to copy anyone, if someone wants to copy then let them copy us"

see that is the difference between them and me, I have a real man attitude and I'm a proud man
no everybody was born to be a leader some people are just lucky to be in that position
like mr cook
 
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I personally get irritated by how binary and extreme so many opinions seem to be on this. I don't find the notch (or other solutions, like cutouts) neither go away nor are some devastating eyesore. These things are just compromises that add some value (such as FaceID with a high screen/body ratio) with some cost (the top edge being uneven, making it imperfect for some media content).

Hell, I feel like this about a lot of these discussions. There are advantages and disadvantages to all of the biometric authentication solutions. All of those solutions are compromises. Facial recognition is better under some circumstances. So is a traditional FPS, and in-screen FPS, and a back of the phone FPS. None are terrible ideas. None are perfect. But people are so intent on proving their point they go to absolute, and extreme positions.

Apple doesn't innovate (when it clearly does). Only Apple innovates, which everyone else just copies (when this is clearly not true). Apple doesn't do things first, but it does things best (except when it doesn't). Apple just plays catch-up (except when it doesn't). Not everything has to be binary.

Ok. This started as a comment on your comment, and ended up as a random rant. Sorry.

LOL yep I sometimes think the world's biggest problem is inability to tolerate ambiguity or ambivalence now -- our own or anyone else's. Even the option of "don't care" seems to have headed for the hills lately, so now it's just about down to "yes" and "no" facing off with each other 24/7.

I laugh out loud sometimes when I can't decide what to wear in the morning and end up realizing it's just because there are more than two choices. Brain can't handle anything more complex than binary at 5am before a cuppa coffee...
 
Thick bezels?
What do people want?
All iPhone X/s/max have the smallest lower bezels of all released smartphones. The side bezels? What do you want? A curved display on the sides that distorts content and is prone to accidental touches?
All I am disappointed with is that the notch won’ t be smaller, the rest of the bezels is fine. Dated? No.....
 
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