Alternative iOS App Stores Only Work for 'Grace Period' When Traveling Outside of EU

[toobravetosave]

lol. nice pun... 😃 Still don't understand why people come on here just to rant or vent about Apple.


So you have accepted my point that this has nothing to do with being an EU citizen and you agree that being an EU citizen gives them no rights against laws in other countries? It is all about having an EU AppleID whilst in the EU. You ignored that bit, so I assume you accepted it, if not agreed with it.

Well that depends heavily on how the EU wants to structure the law which I'll freely admit I dont have the time to read. as an example of deciding whatever they want they could say to apple any phone sold in the EEA must have these features.

Apple has an EU headquarters and will owe whatever duty the EU puts on them

 

[steve09090]

Well that depends heavily on how the EU wants to structure the law which I'll freely admit I dont have the time to read. as an example of deciding whatever they want they could say to apple any phone sold in the EEA must have these features.

Apple has an EU headquarters and will owe whatever duty the EU puts on them

Well that would be completely unfair if I became an EU resident and had an EU AppleID.

Nevertheless, they can't decide how another country structures their app store rules. To take a quote from a member of the EU.

“if you should be in Rome, live in the Roman manner; if you should be elsewhere, live as they do there” -St Ambrose​

or as we often use the term... When in Rome...

 

[Beautyspin]

That wasn’t my point. It was that other apps could do the data mining. Because that is what has happened in the past. Personally that is my fear of alternative app stores, not those of, say Citibank.


That is true. However we have not yet seen what they intend to do. Will it be only their apps, or will they find the lure of making some side cash too enticing. Then once you can go down that rabbit hole…. But we will wait and see.


You’ve always had that freedom. This is about where you get it from. Duh…


They basically say. If you’re in the EU, we will all play within the rules of the EU. If you’re out of the EU we will all play by the rules outside of the EU.

Well, Apple does a lot of datamining. Its veneer of privacy is just to ensure others do not have access to the same data that they have. Apple thinks the entire ecosystem is its fiefdom and acts accordingly. Its App Tracking Transparency (ATT) is just to boost its own ad business. Apple cares about privacy as long as it gets money for itself.

Apple's privacy changes helped boost its own ads business

Apple's App Tracking Transparency, or ATT, reached mass adoption in June 2021, allowing for a comparative year-over-year analysis

techcrunch.com

 

[steve09090]

Well, Apple does a lot of datamining. Its veneer of privacy is just to ensure others do not have access to the same data that they have. Apple thinks the entire ecosystem is its fiefdom and acts accordingly. Its App Tracking Transparency (ATT) is just to boost its own ad business. Apple cares about privacy as long as it gets money for itself.

Apple's privacy changes helped boost its own ads business

Apple's App Tracking Transparency, or ATT, reached mass adoption in June 2021, allowing for a comparative year-over-year analysis

techcrunch.com

I'm not talking about companies like Google/Facebook/Apple/Spotify etc who legally obtain tracking data from within their own app. I am talking about nefarious apps scraping data from other apps, such as banking apps, safari or whatever and getting passwords, banking details, tracking from an app that is not there's or from within their own app that is designed to do something else, yet running code that you were not aware.

But you keep looking to kick at another goal post. You can't admit that Alternative App Stores have a greater opportunity for malicious apps to thrive. If you can't even admit that, then we are done.

 

[toobravetosave]

Well that would be completely unfair if I became an EU resident and had an EU AppleID.

Nevertheless, they can't decide how another country structures their app store rules. To take a quote from a member of the EU.

“if you should be in Rome, live in the Roman manner; if you should be elsewhere, live as they do there” -St Ambrose​

or as we often use the term... When in Rome...

they can structure how phones sold in the eu must be and if that means not removing features upon leaving the eu they can just say that.

if u want to sell your product there ull comply

 

[toobravetosave]

I'm not talking about companies like Google/Facebook/Apple/Spotify etc who legally obtain tracking data from within their own app. I am talking about nefarious apps scraping data from other apps, such as banking apps, safari or whatever and getting passwords, banking details, tracking from an app that is not there's or from within their own app that is designed to do something else, yet running code that you were not aware.

But you keep looking to kick at another goal post. You can't admit that Alternative App Stores have a greater opportunity for malicious apps to thrive. If you can't even admit that, then we are done.

doesn’t apples current app store rely on self reporting tracking information anyway?

 

[Shirasaki]

Easy, eu based card, eu based carrier, eu based residential address, eu based social security number etc.

There a lot of things only European people have that nobody else have and would be very hard to spoof.

Yea that’s child’s play to verify. There exist infrastructure already built for this.

Apple would just need the user to verify the account with BankID or something similar and would take about 5 seconds to do and would verify the user is an EU citizen. As only people with citizenship in a EU country could do that

Well I hope identity theft is not looking after these stuff just so someone else outside EU can get access to alternative App Store, on top of all the nefarious things identity thieves already doing.

 

[Shirasaki]

doesn’t apples current app store rely on self reporting tracking information anyway?

Current App Store is tied to account, inc account region. And no geofencing required to purchase apps from other store.

If apple is going to geofencing this alternative App Store, god knows what kind of restrictions they will put on. It’s a lot scarier than I originally thought.

 

[1129846]

It’ll ping somehow. Separate product, but Google has gotten very smart at tracking down where the user is when using the YouTube TV service. It sees right through a VPN-hosted “location”. The only way I’ve heard how to trick it is to manually set up your own VPN with a box in the location.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple does something similar.

It is more most of the VPN you and I can get have known server location and it is would not take long for one of the many IP location trackers to figure out a VPN new IP address. Most of the VPN we can buy and use are to share network location so it is traced down.

Now using corporate VPN of your employer might not trip things up as much as not the same as a wide vpn.

 

[toobravetosave]

Current App Store is tied to account, inc account region. And no geofencing required to purchase apps from other store.

If apple is going to geofencing this alternative App Store, god knows what kind of restrictions they will put on. It’s a lot scarier than I originally thought.

i meant apps self report their privacy policies. previous poster seems to think apples app store protects you from tracking and data mining

 

[Sophisticatednut]

But this is NOT about citizenship. It has nothing to do with it. It's about having an EU AppleID, which anyone living in the EU can get. You do not have to be a citizen of an EU country to get an EU AppleID.

Sure, but it can be used to verify it’s an EU appleID or to make an appleID. Because you can’t spoof that.

A person with working Visa or anything that grants them long term residency provides them with a special electronicID to be used. When you travel to EU as a tourist the. You don’t have this unique ID connected with your personal identification.

I’m saying the infrastructure to verify an appleID is eU based exists Since

 

[Shirasaki]

i meant apps self report their privacy policies. previous poster seems to think apples app store protects you from tracking and data mining

Oh that. Yeah self report plus a bit of vetting during review process. App Store policy only works if people honour it Instead of trying to circumvent it. Scam app flourishing in App Store is a great demonstration on how App Store policy cannot protect users from tracking and data mining. Plus, big companies don’t rely on ios apps to mine your data and track you Either.

 

[toobravetosave]

Oh that. Yeah self report plus a bit of vetting during review process. App Store policy only works if people honour it Instead of trying to circumvent it. Scam app flourishing in App Store is a great demonstration on how App Store policy cannot protect users from tracking and data mining. Plus, big companies don’t rely on ios apps to mine your data and track you Either.

It is funny how rabidly the hive has latched onto this anti tracking apple public relations campaign while they use internet facing apps most of which are integrated with google facebook microsoft and everything else apple has told them to hate.

The biggest irony after all this anticompetitive action will be instead of the world ending apple instead dramatically improves their design and philosophy to pressure the market again

 

[yabeweb]

Apple isn't going to delete your already installed apps.

Realistically what will happen is that if you are outside the EU for more than 90 days, you wont be able to access the alternate app stores. We don't know if you just can't install new apps, or if you cant receive updates for already installed apps.

The article states no more updates after the “grace period”.
”Apps you installed from alternative app marketplaces will continue to function, but they can't be updated by the marketplace you downloaded them from.”
So while not technically deleting my app, a system update during that period could brake an app and I could not update it to make it work again from the store i bought it from. This is ridiculous.

 

[svish]

Hopefully it will be active for at least 30 days. Waiting to hear more about it

 

[steve09090]

doesn’t apples current app store rely on self reporting tracking information anyway?

I think we’re done.

 

[Beautyspin]

I'm not talking about companies like Google/Facebook/Apple/Spotify etc who legally obtain tracking data from within their own app. I am talking about nefarious apps scraping data from other apps, such as banking apps, safari or whatever and getting passwords, banking details, tracking from an app that is not there's or from within their own app that is designed to do something else, yet running code that you were not aware.

But you keep looking to kick at another goal post. You can't admit that Alternative App Stores have a greater opportunity for malicious apps to thrive. If you can't even admit that, then we are done.

If an alternate app store allows such apps and is found out, they will be out of business. They are not Apple which can get away with having a app store full of scam apps. They have to be better than Apple to survive. Apple does not have to be.

 

[Elagabalus]

Not too surprising with the grace period tbh. If I fly out of the EU my free roaming that I have within the union stops working too and not even that is indefinite in other member countries it has a 4 month limit. So it’s all within reason.

 

[steve09090]

If an alternate app store allows such apps and is found out, they will be out of business. They are not Apple which can get away with having a app store full of scam apps. They have to be better than Apple to survive. Apple does not have to be.

Apple have never been 'full' of scam apps. They had a few that got through and that were found and kicked out. But make up stuff if that’s your bag.

If an alternative App Store has to be better than Apple to survive (a very odd and simplistic metric), they are doomed already. But I’m done with the BS coming from the Apple haters, so we’re done here.

Clearly you think Alternative Apple stores are safe as houses. Enjoy your malware.

 

[treacher]

Yeah everything not the App Store is 'full' of malware. The boogeyman is coming to get you. The Enlightened shall stay with our Great Protector, for it is only They who can guide Us and keep Us safe.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Well that would be completely unfair if I became an EU resident and had an EU AppleID.

Nevertheless, they can't decide how another country structures their app store rules. To take a quote from a member of the EU.

“if you should be in Rome, live in the Roman manner; if you should be elsewhere, live as they do there” -St Ambrose​

or as we often use the term... When in Rome...

How is this unfair in anyway? Just like if you bought an iPhone that only have support for specific 5G bands that depends where it’s purchased? Just how the SOS feature of the iPhone 15 is only available for the U.S. version.

I think it’s kind of silly how Apple wants to implement it, but if they truly wanted to limit it to only those under EU law they could instead of this overly complicated way they want to now.

They talking about security sounds extremely hypocritical when they also disable security updates if you stay abroad for too long.

 

[VisionRex]

Epic will not be launching one hahaha sucks to be them. Maybe next time they’ll learn not to bite the hand that feeds

 

[j26]

I see plenty of people saying the grace period is 60-90 days. Is there a source for that, or is it just conjecture? I'm not aware of Apple stating that.

 

[steve09090]

I see plenty of people saying the grace period is 60-90 days. Is there a source for that, or is it just conjecture? I'm not aware of Apple stating that.

No. Just a grace period. No time was given by Apple and someone here estimated that’d be a good length of time.

 

[j26]

No. Just a grace period. No time was given by Apple and someone here estimated that’d be a good length of time.

Yes, 90 would be fairly reasonable, but it could be as little as 14.

However, it could all be solved by allowing updates irrespective of location or time.