Alternative iOS App Stores Only Work for 'Grace Period' When Traveling Outside of EU

[Samplasion]

More entry points decreases security, especially if almost everyone can make an entry point.

But I thought:

Since so few people side load and use multiple app stores on Android, I assume it isn't an import feature for most users.

So which is it? Either people die from malware and spyware or people don't use third-party app stores. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[darngooddesign]

Yep. Apple basically says, "We've decided to unilaterally take away your rights as a European citizen"

Fun fact - EU rules and laws only apply to the EU. Similarly, US rules and laws do not apply to the EU.

 

[darngooddesign]

So I can buy an app from the store and if Apple feels I have been outside of eu for too long they take it away?

I mean as in I cannot update it any longer? What the heck?

Apple isn't going to delete your already installed apps.

Realistically what will happen is that if you are outside the EU for more than 90 days, you wont be able to access the alternate app stores. We don't know if you just can't install new apps, or if you cant receive updates for already installed apps.

 

[steve09090]

I think his point is that the financial app might be available only from an alternate app store. Say, for instance, the Citibank app might be available from only some third-party Appstore. What will the consumer do? The banks need not scrape any date. They legitimately collect all the information anyway to prevent fraud.

That wasn’t my point. It was that other apps could do the data mining. Because that is what has happened in the past. Personally that is my fear of alternative app stores, not those of, say Citibank.

Macpaw is supposed to comeup with an alternate app store. so is an enterprise-focused app marketplace from Mobivention. They will have better oversight because they may not have millions of apps.

That is true. However we have not yet seen what they intend to do. Will it be only their apps, or will they find the lure of making some side cash too enticing. Then once you can go down that rabbit hole…. But we will wait and see.

No. This isn't about Apple's ridiculous memory and storage prices, it's about the freedom to install the software of MY choosing on MY iPhone.

You’ve always had that freedom. This is about where you get it from. Duh…

Yep. Apple basically says, "We've decided to unilaterally take away your rights as a European citizen"

They basically say. If you’re in the EU, we will all play within the rules of the EU. If you’re out of the EU we will all play by the rules outside of the EU.

 

[TigerNike23]

But they have to honor the terms of service. A contract is a contract.

They can cancel the contract, but that would be a mess, because it would mean that all your subscriptions would stop as well. What a mess.

While I understand your point, I’m failing to grasp how the EU could force Apple to abide by its regulations if an EU citizen is in Puerto Rico or the Bahamas.

 

[AppliedMicro]

But as long as you don't change the region in account settings, there is little ground for Apple to change the terms and consequently disable alt-app-store access, just because your phone is outside of the EU.

Prepare for Apple determining your location (and restricting features) by more than your region settings:

https://9to5mac.com/2023/04/25/ios-16-restrict-features-based-on-location/

(The same principle of “same rules as at home” for only limited time outside your home country is also well-accepted in other EU regulations, e.g. geoblocking or mobile roaming charges)

 

[turbineseaplane]

Prepare for Apple determining your location (and restricting features) by more than your region settings:

https://9to5mac.com/2023/04/25/ios-16-restrict-features-based-on-location/

I’m already preparing, which will be made easier since they don’t make any small phones anymore

(13 mini user)

 

[TigerNike23]

Apple is known to deliver crap user experience in order to protect their products. Look at them still using SMS/MMS instead of adopting RCS. It's a crap experience for their own users, all in the name of greed.

Respectfully, I thought Europeans use third-party apps to send text messages because their carriers were so greedy they charged per message.

 

[toobravetosave]

I think you should use the hardware and software you're discussing on a site like MacRumors.

These people are also angry at Apple. For their own mental health, they should stay away.

MacRumors shouldn't have non hardware and software posts then right?

 

[toobravetosave]

Ummm.. is your experience that there are "only supportive fanboys" here?

Because I see a TON of people here who are extremely critical of Apple here and that's a good thing.

However, there's little value in the opinions of someone who doesn't even use the products. Their opinions are based on... what exactly?

When did I say that was my experience? I would wager the vast majority of people on this site use an apple product of some kind. Heck, almost 60% of Americans have an iPhone lmao

Seems like people are just a little sensitive about negativity directed toward apple

 

[turbineseaplane]

Seems like people are just a little sensitive about negativity directed toward apple

Ya think?

People are taking this all as though someone derided their grandmother

 

[Abazigal]

Tell the EU you want them to crack down harder on you without telling them you want them to crack down harder on you. Delivering an absolutely **** user experience just pisses off your users Apple... and eventually the EU will call out your tantrum.

Or maybe this all just demonstrates what a poorly and vaguely written piece of legislation the DMA is, if Apple is able to still attempt to poke so many holes in it, and none of us can really say whether they are adhering to the law as written or not.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

.

 

[TigerNike23]

Ya think?

People are taking this all as though someone derided their grandmother

Agreed. I’m just failing to grasp one thing because I’m seeing an argument trying to have it both ways in relation to the EU.

1. Apple was found in a US court to be within the law’s scope to terminate Epic Games’ developer account because it was found to repeatedly violate the terms of agreement.

Pro-EU commenters argue that US ruling is null and void because today Apple yanked Epic’s Swedish account, and should be held to EU law.

2. If an EU citizen goes outside of the EU geographical footprint for an extended period of time, the user will be unable to access alternative app stores and update said apps.

Pro-EU commentators then argue that EU regulations should be in force even outside of EU jurisdiction.

What I’m understanding is that US law has no force in the EU but EU regulations have force in the US, according to these people.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

This feels like a lot of needless complexity. I’d hate to be the developers working on these features.

Apparently when you start at Apple, they send you this

Imagine getting an engineering role at Apple and they give you all this spiel about 'changing the world' and then you find yourself working on notifying the mothership when someone uses a third party app store outside the EU.

 

[1129846]

It's not problem for me as a user. It's only a problem for developers which I don't care about.

One great thing about iOS is you can use Apple as a shield against the developer, protecting you from the developer. ¨

If you honestly believe the App store is what keeps your phone safe I have some magic beans to sell you. If the app store is required to keep iOS safe then iOS is far from secure.

Give you a hint Apple review process for an app review for malous app is not that hard to get around. It is something that can be danced around and full. It makes it slightly harder but not as much as you think.

The tracking part for privacy all that hides is advertiserID. Everything else still is tracked.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Apparently when you start at Apple, they send you this

View attachment 2356296


Imagine getting an engineering role at Apple and they give you all this spiel about 'changing the world' and then you find yourself working on notifying the mothership when someone uses a third party app store outside the EU.

Same with their focus on the environment…

While purposely creating totally locked down devices and accessories that fill up landfills way before they’d need to if they could be upgraded and fixed as they aged.

 

[Shirasaki]

wonder how good VPN is for maintaining ongoing third party store access, also I Believe some folks will disable location services in a bid to try to update their non-app-store apps. Or will apple tie location services to ability to update non-app-store apps now?

regardless, I hope This malicious compliance gets shut down fast and apple receive substantial fines for this. Not just millions, but closer to 100 billions. I bet the only real way to truly hurt apple is hurting their wallet.

 

[turbineseaplane]

wonder how good VPN is for maintaining ongoing third party store access, also I Believe some folks will disable location services in a bid to try to update their non-app-store apps. Or will apple tie location services to ability to update non-app-store apps now?

regardless, I hope This malicious compliance gets shut down fast and apple receive substantial fines for this. Not just millions, but closer to 100 billions. I bet the only real way to truly hurt apple is hurting their wallet.

It’d be hilarious to see China take a stance anywhere along these EU lines, and watch the compliance happen in literally a couple weeks

(I’m aware they won’t .. China already gets what it wants and has Tim fully under heel)

 

[toobravetosave]

Agreed. I’m just failing to grasp one thing because I’m seeing an argument trying to have it both ways in relation to the EU.

1. Apple was found in a US court to be within the law’s scope to terminate Epic Games’ developer account because it was found to repeatedly violate the terms of agreement.

Pro-EU commenters argue that US ruling is null and void because today Apple yanked Epic’s Swedish account, and should be held to EU law.

2. If an EU citizen goes outside of the EU geographical footprint for an extended period of time, the user will be unable to access alternative app stores and update said apps.

Pro-EU commentators then argue that EU regulations should be in force even outside of EU jurisdiction.

What I’m understanding is that US law has no force in the EU but EU regulations have force in the US, according to these people.

i believe the argument is that it’s unfair for eu protections to not protect eu citizens just because they aren’t currently in the eu

the regulations wouldn’t force apple to allow non eu citizens to access these new features but shouldn’t be geofenced for eu citizens

 

[Shirasaki]

It’d be hilarious to see China take a stance anywhere along these EU lines, and watch the compliance happen in literally a couple weeks

(I’m aware they won’t .. China already gets what it wants and has Tim fully under heel)

It’d be hilarious. Shame Chinese people only care about mega apps, not really “alternative app stores”.
Apple acts like a dictatorship don’t ya think? Through App Store dictating what you can and cannot Do on your own device, both hardware and software.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Through App Store dictating what you can and cannot Do on your own device, both hardware and software.

100% … and it’s maddening because it’s not “better for customers” .. it’s just about money for Apple.
If they had any creativity left inside they’d find a way to blaze a new path forward and still make money

 

[iOS Geek]

Agreed. I’m just failing to grasp one thing because I’m seeing an argument trying to have it both ways in relation to the EU.

1. Apple was found in a US court to be within the law’s scope to terminate Epic Games’ developer account because it was found to repeatedly violate the terms of agreement.

Pro-EU commenters argue that US ruling is null and void because today Apple yanked Epic’s Swedish account, and should be held to EU law.

2. If an EU citizen goes outside of the EU geographical footprint for an extended period of time, the user will be unable to access alternative app stores and update said apps.

Pro-EU commentators then argue that EU regulations should be in force even outside of EU jurisdiction.

What I’m understanding is that US law has no force in the EU but EU regulations have force in the US, according to these people.

Bingo. Strange, isn’t it? Much like the EU threatening to fine Apple based on WORLDWIDE revenue instead of just revenue from within their own territory. It’s things like this that REALLY make the EU look like they are overreaching.

 

[Abazigal]

i believe the argument is that it’s unfair for eu protections to not protect eu citizens just because they aren’t currently in the eu

the regulations wouldn’t force apple to allow non eu citizens to access these new features but shouldn’t be geofenced for eu citizens

But how would you know whether the user of said iPhone is an actual EU citizen or not?

 

[Shirasaki]

i believe the argument is that it’s unfair for eu protections to not protect eu citizens just because they aren’t currently in the eu

the regulations wouldn’t force apple to allow non eu citizens to access these new features but shouldn’t be geofenced for eu citizens

Then Apple would have to ask EU citizens to verify their citizenship status, effectively applying legal identity to their App Store account. Can that even happen?