Amazingly, Circus Ponies Notebook Works in Mojave

Discussion in 'macOS Mojave (10.14)' started by talmy, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. talmy macrumors 601

    talmy

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    #1
    I say this because it was working in Sierra, but never worked in High Sierra. So Circus Ponies Notebook fans -- you will be able to go back using it if you haven't deleted it already!
     
  2. Teddybear093 macrumors newbie

    Teddybear093

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    #2
    I have been holding off on jumping to High Sierra because it unfortunately either kills or hobbles several of my apps including Circus Ponies Notebook. I will download and install Mojave on a separate drive to test this out. While there are some programs that come close to CP Notebook none have the flexibility it exhibits. It really was and in many ways still is ahead of other note taking apps. Many thanks talmy!
     
  3. talmy thread starter macrumors 601

    talmy

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    #3
    Alas, in newer betas it seems to have stopped working, at least for existing notebooks. I can create a new notebook but not open existing old ones. :(
     
  4. jelliott610 macrumors newbie

    jelliott610

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    #4
    Any update regarding Mojave and Notebook? Still on Sierra b/c can't lose Notebook. Can't find anything worthwhile to replace it.
     
  5. talmy thread starter macrumors 601

    talmy

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    #5
    Sorry, doesn't work in the release or even the 10.14.1 beta. I too am still on Sierra but have moved to Growly Notes or notes within Scrivener as a replacement. Growly Notes is more like Microsoft OneNote than CPN but will do; I used OneNote before CPN. Scrivener is great for some books I'm writing to keep mixed media notes and todos. Existing CP Notebooks are now static, just archival data, so I exported them to HTML and to PDF (Print to PDF) for future access.
     
  6. Teddybear093 macrumors newbie

    Teddybear093

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    #6
    I'm finding it a mixed bag with Mojave. There are times when CPN works fine and others where it crashes immediately and this is in contrast with High Sierra where it did not work at all. It is a 64 bit app so that certainly isn't the problem, however, it probably needs some tweaking in the code which alas it will not get. Like many I'm staying pat on Sierra not only for CPN, but for Aperture, Final Cut 7 and some other 32 bit apps. I am using Scrivener as well, along with MacJournal (it continues to work well with apparently no patches or updates but it's UI is cluttered and old fashioned) but nothing really replicates both the easy and the complexity of CPN. Outline from Gorillized can actually import CPN data if you are interested in migrating things forward, but their UI is still not as flexible or as powerful as CPN. I think not being able to create an identical iPad version of Notebook certainly hurt CircusPonies and looking back it's the one piece of software I would have been willing to pay a subscription for. Maybe there is someone, somewhere who can write a patch for this? I have been experimenting with other notebook apps but there is a startling lack of complexity to many as getting the apps to work well for Mac OS and iOS causes compromises. How are you finding Growly Notes?
     
  7. talmy thread starter macrumors 601

    talmy

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    #7
    Lots of questions and comments. It would be nice if someone would fix CPN My guess is there are plenty of people who would pay money for just a one off repair. But I expect CPN is a real piece of spaghetti code. The program apparently dates back to the Next computer, so it's nearly a 30 year old code base!

    Aperture seems to work fine in Mojave, along with my 32-bit Nik plugins, but I do have a number of 32-bit programs I use (and for which I expect no updates) so I don't see a way beyond Mojave. I'm still running Sierra on my iMac, mainly because I'm worried about APFS and the Fusion drive, but am running High Sierra on my MBP for which it is the end-of-the-line version. My wife's iMac is running Mojave with no issues but she doesn't have that legacy software problem.

    I'm not concerned with iOS compatibility as I don't have an iPad and my iPhone is a "consumption device" except for adding events to the calendar and occasional notes.

    Frankly one problem with CPN was that it was a kitchen sink of features. Far more than needed and too many weren't very well polished and keyboard shortcuts were often mystifying so a major learning curve. Growly Notes seems to be solid and is reasonably fast (much improved speed in recent years). It is more free-form like OneNote. Sometimes this is good for organization and other times it just means a messy appearance. Much less hierarchical for organizing than CPN.

    There are times when CPN works fine and others where it crashes immediately and this is in contrast with High Sierra where it did not work at all. It is a 64 bit app so that certainly isn't the problem, however, it probably needs some tweaking in the code which alas it will not get. Like many I'm staying pat on Sierra not only for CPN, but for Aperture, Final Cut 7 and some other 32 bit apps. I am using Scrivener as well, along with MacJournal (it continues to work well with apparently no patches or updates but it's UI is cluttered and old fashioned) but nothing really replicates both the easy and the complexity of CPN. Outline from Gorillized can actually import CPN data if you are interested in migrating things forward, but their UI is still not as flexible or as powerful as CPN. I think not being able to create an identical iPad version of Notebook certainly hurt CircusPonies and looking back it's the one piece of software I would have been willing to pay a subscription for. Maybe there is someone, somewhere who can write a patch for this? I have been experimenting with other notebook apps but there is a startling lack of complexity to many as getting the apps to work well for Mac OS and iOS causes compromises. How are you finding Growly Notes?[/QUOTE]
     
  8. Teddybear093 macrumors newbie

    Teddybear093

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    #8
    For some reason on my 2018 MacBook Pro, Aperture is not playing nicely with Mojave but as long as I keep my iMac on Sierra all is fine. I read somewhere (or I believe I read) that future updates to Mojave may kill 32 bit app compatibility.
    I think CPN, MacJournal and AquaMinds Notetaker all share some connection with Next, but somewhat oddly and ironically, a copy of Notetaker that I have is still working(!) and that seemed to be abandoned long before CPN. Again it is probably only a simple bit of code that needs some tweaking and I did reach out to see if the support email account of CPN was still working but sadly it's dead.
    I recall having a deep learning curve with CPN at first and it could be frustrating at times but it did replicate the experience of a paper notebook or binder in the digital world quite well. I have both professional and personal projects stored with CPN and I guess I must bite the bullet at some point and export them all out to something else.
    It's really frustrating though that once tied to a proprietary format we can really get screwed when it gets abandoned.
    I still use DVD Studio Pro for clients who want DVDs and thankfully it still works with Sierra but Apple basically abandoned it as Adobe did with Encore. There are third part apps but they aren't very polished.
    Growly Notes looks very similar to Outline from Gorillized and I may try it out.
     
  9. Howard2k macrumors 68000

    Howard2k

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    #9
    I migrated from Aperture to Lightroom. I’m still doing cleanup, years later, but it worked surprisingly well.

    Sooner or later you’re going to need to migrate from these legacy apps, so maybe it’s time to start moving away even one app at a time. Painful as it might be, a gradual migration will be easier than a forced sudden mass migration.

    Not trying to drag off topic.
     
  10. hughf62 macrumors newbie

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    #10
    I have a lot of material in Notebook files which I have collected over several years and was concerned about the many comments I have come across where it was stated that Notebook did not work with Mojave and in addition, Circus Ponies is now defunct and of course will no longer support their application.

    Unfortunately the latter revelation only came to light after I had upgraded to Mojave from El Capitan. It was recommended that I use Growly Notes which as it happens I find cumbersome and insecure.

    On the upside, when I tried to access my notebook files in Mojave, I would that opening the files directly from the menu, caused the application to crash. On the other hand, if I clicked on the file itself, it opened and asked for the password as usual.

    I could then edit the file in the usual way and save it.

    This is despite the underlying file system of Mojave having changed. I can only conclude at this time that the file system is not the primary cause of crashing but most likely how the application uses internal registers in the operating system.

    I would be interested to hear if this work around assists anyone here.

    I still have one machine running El Capitan which I will use to extract the data from the notebook files into another format until I can find an equivalent application which is not dependent on the cloud.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 4, 2018 ---

    I too have heard that 32 bit support is about to disappear from MacOS but no indication of exactly when. Having said that, at the moment I find Aperture works well on Mojave and I also have Lightroom working alongside it, also with no problems. It would be a shame to lose Aperture altogether as I find it easier to work with than Lightroom.
     
  11. talmy thread starter macrumors 601

    talmy

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    #11
    This doesn't work for me -- it crashes after a few seconds. Regarding GN, yes, it has no security features, and IMHO all of these programs are cumbersome!

    I've got a server running Sierra and I installed CPN on that. I can access using Screen Sharing which allows me to access the .nb files. But as I said it's mostly archival so I've exported all the content as HTML and PDF which I can use if I want to reference. GN and Scrivener work for me for every set of notes I'm currently referencing.

    I believe Apple said that Mojave will be the end of the line, so 32-bit will disappear in a year with the release of 10.15.0.
     
  12. Teddybear093 macrumors newbie

    Teddybear093

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    #12
    I'm sadly in the same boat, utilizing CPN for many years for both professional and personal projects and despite some "escape routes" to keep that info going I'm finding that there are no perfect replacements. I have dual boot capacity with Sierra/Mojave on my 2017 iMac and High Sierra/ Mojave on my 2018 MacBook Pro and I will test out and see how your work around operates (I have a 2012 MacBook Pro that I am keeping firmly on El Capitan!).
    You are safe to upgrade to Sierra as CPN continues to operate without problems on that OS, however, I'm, keep a 2012 MacBook I have firmly on El Capitan for safety's sake. Oddly CPN did not work well in the early betas of Sierra but eventually became stable, so if you do get crash logs send them into Apple....you never know.
    The truth is nothing beats CPN in it's nesting abilities, table of contents and finally with it's multidex, although it had a deep learning curve at times. I could write a host of notes on one page and embed all the hyperlinks, emails, pdfs, emails, jpegs, documents, etc I wanted on the same page and I really got use to that style of note taking and note saving.

    As I mentioned before Outline from Gorillized can get your CPN info out into another format for backup although I have found the app not to be as flexible for continued usage.
    I'm using Scrivener for professional projects and it's rather good for arranging material as you like and has excellent nesting capabilities, however, I wish it were more....notebook like. I use Devonthink Pro Office in conjunction With Scrivener for keeping track of assets and elements of a project that don't fit well with the latter app, and while Devonthink Pro Office does have note taking capabilities they aren't as robust as I would like. So I'm using two apps to replace the work that one used to do perfectly. Still if password protection and security are paramount to you neither Scrivener nor Devonthink Pro will disappoint. Getting your info out of CPN and into these two apps might be as easy as exporting to pdf, although I copied, cut and pasted to customize things.

    For journals that I have kept with CPN I have been doing the same copy, cut and paste into MacJournal which despite it's age and rather clunky UI operates well under Mojave, but it's a long process. This app also has password protection security. I have explored many of the other iOS & Mac OS note-taking/notebook apps but nothing really appeals to me or has the flexibility I'm looking for.

    I have seen the suggestion on other blogs of crowdfunding a buy out of the Notebook to make it open source or to get some sort pf patch for it and if any one else is interested in pursuing that it may not be a bad idea. I suspect that CPN needs some tweaking only to get it to work with Mojave. I have also discovered that the AquaMinds site is stating that a new version of NoteTaker is in the works and that app was very close to CPN in it's UI and performance. Who knows if a new version may have someway to to import CPN data. Oddly my old version of AquaMinds NoteTaker still works under Mojave and that hasn't been updated in a very long time. Again I didn't find it as flexible as CPN.

    I realize I must bite the bullet at some point with some apps such as Aperture although I tried Lightroom once and didn't care for it. Apple has left me stranded too with DVD Studio Pro...........
     
  13. rrrhythm macrumors newbie

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    #13
    Thanks to everyone for the discussion. I'm a long-time CPN fan and have tried every replacement program I could find, but never found its equal. This thread has a couple suggestions that are new to me, so thanks. I'll try them out. Meanwhile, I too am sticking with Sierra specifically so I can keep CPN running.

    I would pay a LOT of money for CPN to go live again. I might pause if it were > $1000, but if it were a few hundred I'd pay it happily.

    For me, the two key features of CPN are 1.) the collapsible outlining function, and 2.) how it handles attachments. In my work flow I often use scripts or other programs to interact with and/or edit attachments directly, since I can access them in the directory ./myNoteBook.nb/attachments. I like the fact that everything is on my local disk, and this is in fact essential for how I use it. I also object to the way other notebook platforms want to force me into using their cloud service.

    Lastly, I always thought the name was a little goofy and maybe not the best business decision. No surprise that it came from the NeXT legacy, which always struck me as a quirky lot. Not that that's a bad thing. I'm pretty quirky myself.
     
  14. Tomnel141 macrumors newbie

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    #14
    I moved a CPN file to Scrivener. It imported the text and .pdf attachments but dropped the Word documents that were attachments in CPN. Unfortunately that ruled out Scrivener for the purpose. Does anyone know how to get the Word attachment accepted by Scrivener?
    --- Post Merged, Nov 8, 2018 ---
    Then again I am quite happy with El Capitan. Is there any reason a person can't just stay with the old OS? Will an upgrade to a new computer require running the new OS like it did when Apple changed from its own CPUs to Intel's? Is that likely to happen soon?
     
  15. Teddybear093 macrumors newbie

    Teddybear093

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    #15
    It appears that opening a CPN file directly as hughf62 suggested seems to work on my 2017 27" iMac but with occasional hiccups on my 13" 2018 MBP. I recall I had similar issues with Sierra and I kept sending the crash logs to Apple and I didn't update my main system for close to a year until it seemed more stable. For some reason CPN seems more stable (but not 100% yet) on Mojave unlike High Sierra. I would suggest that anyone attempting to run CPN on Mojave and who has problems to send the crash reports to Apple....hey you never know! CPN is a 64 bit app and I have a feeling that it requites some small tweak to work smoothly. I have some other apps which haven't been up=dated in ages and they are working smoothly with Mojave so it's a mixed bag.

    I am wondering how we could reach out to Jayson Adams who helped create CPN and get him to post it as open source? It's unclear whether he closed up shop or sold CPN to Alphabet. I believe he works for Google. Any ideas?
     
  16. Teddybear093 macrumors newbie

    Teddybear093

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    #16
    You can stay on your current OS as Apple will probably have security updates for El Captain for a bit longer, however, if you ever need to upgrade your Mac, a newer model won't run El Captain. Still it's possible to use emulation software like Parallels to run El Captain and other operating systems as virtual machines to keep vintage software going.
    When Apple went from Power PC chips to Intel there was thankfully enough transition time for most software vendors to rewrite their programs and get up to speed. If they eventually transition to AMD as some speculate they will I wonder how many software vendors will then make the jump?
    There doesn't seem to be a seamless way to get CPN data straight out into another app without some compromises or extensive workarounds. Look into Outline from Gorillized which can get most but not all of your CPN data into their format. Again not perfect. It's not a bad notebook app but still isn't as flexible as I would like. I'm trying not to start new projects in CPN but have have long term ongoing ones and journals that I'm still using so I too am using both El Captain and Sierra and will do so for a while on my main systems.
     
  17. Teddybear093 macrumors newbie

    Teddybear093

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    #17
    I'm finding CPN to be stable on Mojave up to this point or at least with this version. Is anyone else having a similar experience?
     
  18. talmy thread starter macrumors 601

    talmy

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    #18
    I wonder what the difference is because it only worked for me it the first beta build (hence my premature start of this thread.)
    Mojave ain't done until Circus Ponies Notebook won't run!
     
  19. fisherking macrumors 603

    fisherking

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    #19
    amazing that this works; i used the app so long ago.

    would be a good idea to be ready for what comes next; no 32bit support in the next OS. seems time to migrate to a current, supported app... so that, when next year hits, you'll have access to your files.
     
  20. Teddybear093 macrumors newbie

    Teddybear093

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    #20
    Again I'm testing everyday on my 2017 iMac on an external drive and CPN is playing well with Mojave. I'm not ready to commit to Mojave because of other apps that don't play nice but with CPN so far so good. There is a new beta of Mohave as well that I will download and test with CPN. Strangely on my 2018 MBP running Mohave as well I do get occasional crashes on CPN maybe 10 % of the time. Again I send the crash logs to Apple. Have you tried a fresh install of Mohave?
     
  21. talmy thread starter macrumors 601

    talmy

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    #21
    Only update installs. It would be interesting if that were the problem! I'll try a fresh install on an external drive sometime. (Too busy this week.)
     
  22. Blacknee macrumors newbie

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    #22
    Life ain't meant to be easy.
    From my point of view a computer is a device which allows you to access useful tools - called software. It is the software that is the main point, not the computer, and particularly not the operating system.
    I have been using Macs since the 512k was available, about 1985?, and the loss of useful tools as Apple follows its egocentric business plan has been a constant downside.
    I currently use High Sierra for RagTime, LabChart, Graphite and, by necessity, Parallels. Then Snow Leopard for Extendsim and CPN, and Windows 7 for Solidworks 15 and TK!Solver. Other stuff like mail and web browser could be anywhere, often on my phone anyway.
    So more than half of my everyday tools are not available on the latest MacOS.
    I have used CPN for more than 10 years and have a huge amount of information. In my life as an R&D mechanical engineer projects sometimes go for many years. My main project at the moment started back in the last century and no doubt has some time to run. Converting all this data to another software tool, that also might be ephemeral, is just not viable. If it were not for Parallels I would have three computers on my desk. And it were not for iCloud and DropBox, I would be doing the USB stick shuffle all day long.
    In reality all of my tools with the exception of CPN could migrate to Windows. Interestingly all of these except Solidworks started life on the Mac. I acquired my first 512k for Visicalc, the forerunner of all spreadsheets (thanks Dan), whose company also introduced TK on Mac.
    Perhaps just too old to learn new tricks. Reiterating that it is the software that counts, not the operating system.
    Cheers.
     
  23. fisherking macrumors 603

    fisherking

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    #23
    wow, that is just... terrifying; am glad, for most of us, things are simpler. i am happy to be running one OS (at a time); but if that system (pun intended) works for you (and you can make sense of it)... more power to you!
     
  24. Blacknee macrumors newbie

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  25. DeepYogurt macrumors newbie

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    #25
    Are you folks talking about CPN 3 or 4 -- I use CPN 3.1.8 on High Sierra with no real problems. Have avoided the update to CPN 4 due to the incompatibility of its files compared to version 3. I have a ton of stuff that I have created over the years of using CPN and cringe when I think of the effort in converting everything. Of course with the impending cliff that macOS 15 will create with no more 32-bit app support, that might make things look different when that happens. Apple's strange habit of abandoning old hardware is one of it's least desirable characteristics IMO, but change happens no matter what, and just deal with it as best you can is my mantra. I've seen macOS Sierra and High Sierra run on what Apple considers non-supported hardware or as they call it "obsolete" and it occurs to me that even if it really works they simply are not interested in supporting customers who paid a lot of money for the computers when they were new. Abandoning users in the quest for more hardware sales when the existing hardware works fine is simply bad business IMO and will come back to bite them someday, I would like to think so anyway, but of course it's possible it never will.

    Anyway, i noticed where Teddybear093 talked about seeing the suggestion on another blog about crowdfunding a buy out of CPN and taking it open source and was wondering if anyone could point me to that link? Did anything ever come of this idea?

    Thanks...
     

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