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Amazon #2 Online Retailer Behind iTunes

Apple will not go to #2 any time soon - they control 80% of the online music market so at best Amazon has 20% - they are probably closer to 5-10% when you factor in Sony Connect, Zune Store, MP3.com etc

Remember iTunes is in the big leagues and #2 OVERALL behind only Wal-Mart and ahead of Best-Buy, Circuit City, Tower Records, Amazon traditional CD sales etc

Glideslope said:
So what if Apple goes to #2? Apple make little to no profit from iTunes. Although it has become their main distribution application it seems for all things Apple. This could be an issue for other products. As long as people purchase iPods then fine, use Amazon.

Video is the big problem for Apple. They should have done Apple TV correctly in the first place. Although we really don't know what negotiations go on in the smoke filled back room. It's safe to say the Movie Industry has it out for Apple. IMO, people should bring up the Sherman Act regarding the movie industries treatment of Apple vs Amazon. Juvenile jealousy of the Pixar/Disney connection is clearly evident.

I'll always support Apple, but not for DRM free music, but because they push the envelope in design and take risks. Nothing is ever changed without taking risks.

Think Different.
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I got a Garmin GPS for traveling, but found that the only way to integrate the GPS, iPhone, bluetooth and iTunes was to put put the music on the Garmin.

It only takes mp3s, so I had to download a ripper program and convert iTunes Mp4s into mp3s. That is silly. Now I download from Amazon so I can use both the iPhone and the Garmin correctly.

Maybe Apple will support an integrated GPS/iPhone, but not now, and as far as I am concerned this is a safety issue.

BTW, several posters have said that Amazon has the advantage because of media company politics. Seems possible, but Apple does have a virtual monopoly on the players, so I could see them leveraging that by using proprietary formats that would encourage even more iPod sales.
 
If iTunes has the same DRM-free selection as Amazon, I'd gladly shop there. But lately 85% of the time I search for a track on iTunes, it's only available with DRM, yet on Amazon it's DRM-free.

iTunes needs to DRM-free the rest of their catalog or they are going to fall further behind. I'm surprised Steve Jobs, master of the RDF hasn't been able to spin a deal with the record companies yet. Either that or the labels have some beef with Apple.
 
carlgo said:
BTW, several posters have said that Amazon has the advantage because of media company politics. Seems possible, but Apple does have a virtual monopoly on the players, so I could see them leveraging that by using proprietary formats that would encourage even more iPod sales.
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Maybe I am misreading this, but iTunes Plus is no more proprietary than mp3.... MP3 is not a "Free" standard
 
carlgo said:
I got a Garmin GPS for traveling, but found that the only way to integrate the GPS, iPhone, bluetooth and iTunes was to put put the music on the Garmin.
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I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons Mac users prefer TomTom. (Though correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just starting to look at GPSes.)
 
TXCraig said:
Do all of the media companies just hate Apple? Amazon has more music ALL DRM free and they have only have been doing this a year or so. Amazon also has 4 times the number of moves for rent as Apple. Amazon also has TV show rentals unlike iTunes.

How can Amazon wheel and deal with the media companies but Apple always seems to have trouble with this....
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Because Apple's control, greed and attitude will backfire on them sooner or later.
 
Mackan said:
Because Apple's control, greed and attitude will backfire on them sooner or later.
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Just checking to be certain:

Apple exerts control without benefits (like a player/software platform designed as one), they are greedy (despite pocketing only a tiny cut of iTunes' income), and their "attitude" about music and/or business is all wrong... and this is in reference to their negotiations with the big music labels, who are less controlling, less greedy, and have a healthy "attitude"? :eek:
 
TXCraig said:
Do all of the media companies just hate Apple? Amazon has more music ALL DRM free and they have only have been doing this a year or so. Amazon also has 4 times the number of moves for rent as Apple. Amazon also has TV show rentals unlike iTunes.

How can Amazon wheel and deal with the media companies but Apple always seems to have trouble with this....
Click to expand...

They don't like the fact that Apple structures the prices and won't let them pick. Apple requires all songs to be $0.99 and all albums to be $9.99. The media companies don't want this, so they go to Apple's competitor and give them the business. They just don't like Apple having the monopoly, because then Apple would hold all of the power.

greendragon said:
this is bad! anybody who buys music from amazon, who is an :apple: user, should feel GUILTY!!

i am :apple: FAITHFUL!!
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lol

anyone who buys iTunes 128kbit-DRM tracks when there are much better alternatives is either an idiot or needs to leave the RDF.
 
I'm an Amazon convert. iTunes is nice for playing music and for podcasts, but if the music is cheaper (and DRM-free), there's no reason to avoid it. Of course, the best option is screwing both of 'em and hoping for more NIN/Radiohead sales options in the future.
 
Does this really mean much? I mean They may be number 2 in Online sales But isn't Apple like number 2 in Overall sales?
One would wonder if Amazon would even be in the top 10 of overall sales with out its CD sales.
 
Bit for Bit, AAC sounds better. Support Apple.

Actually, I'd like some guidance from Apple here.

If we buy DRM free from competitors, does that give leverage to Apple to no longer support DRM for record companies?

Or do we buy from Apple because they stand up for users and the artists?

I'm not comfortable with record companies in control of the formats & prices, knowing their tendencies and how they treat the artists. They used to claim they couldn't pay artists very much because all their costs were in 'distribution'. The net takes that away from them, but I don't see the artists getting a better deal.

The stats sound suspicious in the original article. What is the USUAL source for music sales stats?
 
joeconvert said:
Maybe I am misreading this, but iTunes Plus is no more proprietary than mp3.... MP3 is not a "Free" standard
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No, you're right. But as stated in the blurb Apple has only 2 million DRM free songs while Amazon has 4.5 million. I'd prefer iTunes plus but few of the songs I want are available as iTunes Plus.
 
cohibadad said:
Amazon MP3 is like Walmart to iTunes Nordstroms. They have lots of stuff for cheap but I feel a little dirty every time I buy there.
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Wow. Just wow. Do you light a candle for Steve Jobs every night before you go to bed too?

w00master
 
I was actually going to give the Amazon MP3 store a try earlier today, but upon getting to the site and getting some info, I cannot do so because im Canadian? What a crock. Why go after the head honcho in hopes to take his place if you wont appeal to its full customer base? I know so many of my friends who purchase content from iTunes, and they love it, heck, I love it, its so damned convenient. Speedy downloads and great quality from a brand name I trust.

All this thing about DRM free and not DRM Free or whatever confuses me, I dont know what it means fully, but I dont care, if you buy something from iTunes and it only works on iPods well, thats fine by me personally. The only MP3 player(s) I purchase are iPods, not because there Apple products, but because there just the best ones you can buy with the best bang for the buck, I dont care what anyone says. I also choose iPods because the first 2 MP3 players I owned had terrible battery life and high crash rates, the 1GB Shuffle, 30GB Video, and 8GB Touch I own work fantastic, well, the Video has gone beyond its days and no longer works, but I got ALOT of good use out of it.
 
The people who are boycotting Amazon because they have a bigger selection of DRM-free tracks are retarded. If Apple is being penalized by labels for past transgressions, it's because Apple most certainly deserves it. Apple is an abrasive company that prefers to go in guns blazing instead of giving up anything in negotiation. Amazon, on the other hand, plays nice(er) with partners, gets buy-in, consequently offers a larger and cheaper catalog at great quality, and some people still prefer to reward Apple, the dumb thug in this scenario. Please grow up, suppress that fanboy gene, and support the company that actually benefits you as a consumer. I applaud those of you giving Amazon a chance.
 
Two Thoughts

1. The favoritism shown by the recording companies giving the bigger DRM-free catalog to Amazon is analogous to the Equal Opportunity versus Affirmative Action arguments. Apple fought an uphill battle against the established majority to claim the number 1 spot clearly showing that people want Apple. It's the record companies prerogative, so I guess Apple has to accept these terms.

2. The article very clearly does not say #2 for all store, just digital distribution, meaning online. This just means Apple, Walmart, and Best Buy sell the bulk of music (and probably Amazon for physical CDs) and the remaining 5% of downloaded music is fought over by Amazon's MP3 service (with this service being the second most volume to Apple), Rhapsody, Microsoft, and the other services.
 
VegasUndaground said:
I was actually going to give the Amazon MP3 store a try earlier today, but upon getting to the site and getting some info, I cannot do so because im Canadian? What a crock. Why go after the head honcho in hopes to take his place if you wont appeal to its full customer base? I know so many of my friends who purchase content from iTunes, and they love it, heck, I love it, its so damned convenient. Speedy downloads and great quality from a brand name I trust.

All this thing about DRM free and not DRM Free or whatever confuses me, I dont know what it means fully, but I dont care, if you buy something from iTunes and it only works on iPods well, thats fine buy me personally. The only MP3 player(s) I purchase are iPods, not because there Apple products, but because there just the best ones you can buy with the best bang for the buck, I dont care what anyone says. I also choose iPods because the first 2 MP3 players I owned had terrible battery life and high crash rates, the 1GB Shuffle, 30GB Video, and 8GB Touch I own work fantastic, well, the Video has gone beyond its days and no longer works, but I got ALOT of good use out of it.
Click to expand...

I understand the frustration of Amazon not having an MP3 store outside the US, and this frustration (and perhaps anger) is justified.

However... not caring about DRM is just plain ignorance. DRM assumes that YOU ARE A CRIMINAL. DRM assumes that because you bought a song, you do not have the right to play that piece of music/video/whatever how you wish. DRM is antithetical to public domain. DRM makes historical archiving difficult. DRM locks you in.

Maybe Apple's Fairplay works fine for you now, and maybe you can live with the industry treating consumers "like children" or "criminals," but if you really sit down and think about it, DRM is just plain wrong.

w00master
 
w00master said:
I understand the frustration of Amazon not having an MP3 store outside the US, and this frustration (and perhaps anger) is justified.

However... not caring about DRM is just plain ignorance.
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Ok, I can understand where your coming from, and I do thank you for somewhat giving me a run down on what DRM is, I never really knew and right now im still abit iffy, but what you said helped. Saying that not caring about DRM is just plain ignorance is well, not fully truthful man, as I said I do understand where your coming from after your explanation.

But try to see it from my point of view, I have $50 to spare, I want some music, I got to iTunes and I do just that, if doing so locks me into only using that said purchased music on an Apple iPod and nothing else, thats ok with me personally because iPods are the only music/portable media devices (besides my cameras) that I use. I dont want to many choices when it comes to getting my content, I want to go with a trusted brand, one that has a good reputation, and for me thats Apple. Now, im not saying I dont trust Amazon, no sir, its because of Amazon I can help backup my copyright on my name if I ever need to, but there music store to me right now cannot compare to the iTunes store.

When it comes down to it, I just want music, I want my music on my computer, and I want it on my iPod, and iTunes is the quickest way to do just that, and the easiest. If some has DRM or not, I dont mind to much, I just want the music I love.
 
Amazon ain't as pretty as iTunes, a little harder to navigate but the costs and drm free plus seemless iTunes integration. I've been buying 90% of my music from Amazon for about three months now and am quite happy.
 
Well, that sort of sucks for the non-US residents....But I love being able to use my Amazon MP3's on my iRiver player as well as my iPod.

I kinda hate the DRMness of iTunes D:

My iRiver H320 totally blows the current gen iPod (and any other generation) out of the water in terms of sound quality. Yes, the battery life and capacity is nothing in comparison, but so what. I don't have 80 gigs of music. And yes, the interface blows. But, the sound.... ohh the sound. So why would a person like myself, who appreciates high quality audio, want a DRM song that can only be used on iTunes? I'm not mass distributing music, so why shouldn't I have the option on using my non-Apple devices to play my music? :(
 
greendragon said:
this is bad! anybody who buys music from amazon, who is an :apple: user, should feel GUILTY!!



i am :apple: FAITHFUL!!
Click to expand...


Steve Jobs can wipe his backside with $100 bills. I don't think Apple needs all of us to remain faithful to stay afloat. If Apple wants us to buy music from them, then they need to be competitive both on price and features


Fanboys :rolleyes:
 
Being in the UK I can't use Amazon's MP3 services yet, though I would love to in certain circumstances (I still favour CDs for most of my music).

I do think Amazon's success with DRM-free music is great news generally, and I have to wonder whether it's part of the reason we're hearing the rumours about Apple finally introducing the option for a subscription model of some kind - maybe that is the price of more DRM-free content for Apple.

The funny / clever part is, even with Amazon's success, I think Apple still benefits from a healthier, DRM-free digital music industry with plenty of competition more than it does from a DRM-locked one where iTunes is dominant - whether by design or luck, more people downloading music = more iPods sold.

To put it another way: 100% of, let's say 100 million regular digital downloaders buying iPods and not minding the DRM is still less than 51%+ of 200 million digital downloaders buying iPods many of whom may care about DRM when it comes choosing where to download from and what player to buy.

Apple has played a blinder with iTunes when it comes to music, because Apple are really in a win-win situation here I think. I think they recognised early on they were never going to make big bucks from the music itself, and positioned their solution as to make lots from the players.

I think this is the difference from many music download sites, and why Amazon will also benefit from their MP3 sales more than those retailers that only sell the music itself - if you're not a music company, the hardware is where the money is. Amazon, like Apple, have a nice big store full of things to play the music on that you buy. Including iPods. :D
 
I am curious if anyone has objectively compared the quality of Amazon's offerings versus Apple's (by listening). The bit rate is not necessarily relevant - 256k is certainly capable of recording higher quality than 128k; but people don't seem to understand that doesn't necessarily translate to the actual quality. After all, I can rip noise into FLAC and it'll still sound like, well, noise. If I take a 64k recording and upscale it to 256k, it's still at heart only a 64k recording.

So has anyone actually done a listen-off?

The reason I ask is this: when I've listened to the samples on Amazon versus the comparable samples on iTunes, the Amazon ones sound significantly lower-quality to me. Maybe Amazon's samples are highly compressed, I don't know, but I've been hesitant to spend much money over there since I did the comparison.
 
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