Amazon Enters Gadget Market with Kindle, an eBook Device

[itcheroni]

No, and neither do you.

Solid argument.

You forget, though, that you first implied Amazon must have purposefully low initial inventory. Now, you're speculating on how they define "inventory." And all I said was that it wouldn't make sense for Amazon to have inventory that is too low. Your post speculates on what we both didn't know, mine didn't.

Regardless of what we both don't know, Kindle is outselling every iPod on Amazon. Any way you slice the bestsellers list, it is a remarkable sign for the device.

 

[Cleverboy]

Solid argument.

You forget, though, that you first implied Amazon must have purposefully low initial inventory. Now, you're speculating on how they define "inventory." And all I said was that it wouldn't make sense for Amazon to have inventory that is too low. Your post relied on what we both didn't know, mine didn't.

Regardless of what we both don't know, Kindle is outselling every iPod on Amazon. Any way you slice the bestsellers list, it is a remarkable sign for the device.

Actually your post also relies on assumptions. I was listening to an interesting story the other day about how different stores calculate their "best sellers" differently. If done entirely by volume the list would be stagnant. If done entirely by rate of sales it would fluctuate wildly. The only really think REAL numbers are worth tooting loudly over. Like the 25 millionon track for this quarter.

I think Kindle is doing fine by rate if sales but after a price drop or a product launch, most products do very well. So... Best not make too many positive or negative assumptions.

~ CB

 

[Stella]

$400 for this!! That was a poor business idea. Should have sold the hardware at a loss or break even price point in the $150 range. Then make money on the sales. No one will buy this for $400!!!!!!!!!!

Thats exactly what people said about the iPod.... ( though the iPod was a bit more attractive ).

 

[itcheroni]

Actually your post also relies on assumptions. I was listening to an interesting story the other day about how different stores calculate their "best sellers" differently. If done entirely by volume the list would be stagnant. If done entirely by rate of sales it would fluctuate wildly. The only really think REAL numbers are worth tooting loudly over. Like the 25 millionon track for this quarter.

I think Kindle is doing fine by rate if sales but after a price drop or a product launch, most products do very well. So... Best not make too many positive or negative assumptions.

~ CB

I really brought this on myself. =( I didn't mean to say I wasn't assuming anything, but I was also too lazy to write a dissertation explaining myself. If I stated that Amazon made 1 Kindle, no one here could prove me wrong because no one here knows. But it doesn't mean I'm as correct as someone who says I'm wrong. My assumption was that Amazon would like the "sold-out" buzz but they would also like to sell as many Kindles as they can without sacrificing publicity. I also forgot to differentiate between "speculation" and "assumption."

Rather than trying to distinguish further, I'll end this by saying I don't disagree with either of you.

 

[Cubytus]

Lacks many essential features, too expensive.

Well, that started with a great idea, but
- Waaaay too much expensive, considering there is also an undisclosed fee for the data volume transiting on the EVDO connection, which is likely to be quite important. It's the real reason why eBooks devices are such a market failure; not only the hardware is pricey, the books are, also, typically the same price as paper ones. Nothing to justify the extra cost, apart from saving trees (which reason is fading as more and more books are printed on recycled paper)
- EVDO connection only means it won't be of any use for loading books in Europe, which, for the most part, don't use EVDO cellular networks, but GPRS and 3G
- No WiFi in a 2007 product is not only ridiculous, it's stupid. Although it's just another restriction to get the maximum cash from the consumer from the EVDO; try browsing the web with a cramped very-few-MB EVDO usage allowance. Such a problem is also the case with 3G phones which are being launched in Canada now, promoting video call at 25 cents a minute, mobile TV, internet a some other gadgets in... 12MB data allowed per month. No, I didn't forgot a 0, unfortunately.

And now, minor issue, but still:
If, one day, Amazon decides to sell every book it has (let's dream a bit!) on this platform, which would be a great marketing move on their part, many large textbooks won't be correctly rendered on such a low-resolution screen, especially figures.

Won't it be cool if students could get such a device, loaded with their textbooks, only weighing a few hundred grams, instead of many-kilograms textbooks ? Let's face itstuden's note taking on paper isn't going to disappear soon, but the textbooks are incredibly heavy, especially in college, and our backs could thank the device.

But, there's also the point that, at $400, the same price, one could get a very basic portable computer and load it with pirated textbooks (when they exist), and at the same time having real web-browsing capabilities, WiFi and the ability to type his works...

 

[itcheroni]

...

A lot of people don't understand the wireless is free. It shows how cool it is. It's really unbelievable that a product would have wireless internet access without having to pay a continuous fee.

And the black and white screen is a feature. If it were an lcd screen like on laptops, this product would lose it's purpose.

I think the only reason people don't believe in this product is because they fundamentally don't understand what it offers.

 

[SeaFox]

I think the only reason people don't believe in this product is because they fundamentally don't understand what it offers.

I don't think Amazon does either.

They're trying their best to differentiate Tinder from the other eBook readers people don't want because of the initial price, and their solution is to add email capability and wireless. Email composing means adding a keyboard. But now the device feels like a tablet PC! Quick! Reduce the supported file formats so we can create a business model on selling the eBooks in a format no one else can read.

Then, we'll hide how dismal the battery life is with the wireless by defining battery run time in hours like a laptop, when the whole point of eInk is it doesn't take any battery power to display the image, just change it. Technically, you could have it display a family photo and then hang it on the wall forever.

 

[dannyar]

i give it 2 months...

 

[orb]

I don't think Amazon does either.\
They're trying their best to differentiate Tinder from the other eBook readers people don't want because of the initial price, and their solution is to add email capability and wireless. Email composing means adding a keyboard. But now the device feels like a tablet PC! Quick! Reduce the supported file formats so we can create a business model on selling the eBooks in a format no one else can read.

The keyboard is for doing text search of your books and of the store. It also let's you annotate (make notes) when reading. This makes it particularly useful in a work/school environment. Composing emails isn't even in the feature set. As a user of both the Sony Reader and a new Kindle owner, I think that having the keyboard is a huge win for the Kindle. If you happen to not like the more advanced features, there are less functional readers to choose from.

 

[jhande]

Amazon has to tread a fine line between a 'reader' and a general purpose computer.

The Sony Reader is just that, nothing else. It can bookmark, but can't search, annotate, set alarms etc.

The Kindle *can* search etc, and also update itself with new info/news/books.

However, I believe that it is in the 'specialized device' stage, and feature creep will push it into the general computer arena. How it will fare then, is anybody's guess. Will it end up as a bad computer with a funky screen, or a great reader with fantastic batter life?

For my part, until Apple's famed/infamous tablet arrives, I prefer my ebook reader to have a great screen and fantastic battery life, and my computer to be a laptop. The Sony Reader/MacBook combo suits me just fine at the moment. Being able to just drop rtf's onto the SR is golden, as far as I'm concerned.

.02 etc

 

[SeaFox]

Composing emails isn't even in the feature set. As a user of both the Sony Reader and a new Kindle owner, I think that having the keyboard is a huge win for the Kindle.

Whoops. I must have been thinking of another eBook reader. You can browse the web, though. And that opens the door for webmail.

 

[mward333]

I've gotta weigh-in here. Recently, I went back and read the very first post on Macrumors about the iPod. Many people hated every aspect of the iPod at the start, and many called the iPod just plain ugly. Years later, the iPod remains a godsend for Apple. The original postings about the iPod are absolutely hilarious to read now. Go back and read them... you'll be amazed.

I love the fact that wireless service is free with the Kindle. The high price of wireless is the main reason I don't buy an iPhone! Amazon is a large company with a huge commitment to books, so having Kindle wireless service available for years to come is a safe bet, I think.

I worry slightly about the DRM, and I worry even more about no pdf support, but perhaps a software/firmware update will provide pdf support in the future. (I don't know if this is possible, but I would guess so.)

It seems like a very visionary product to me. I will consider buying one by the end of the year.

 

[Cleverboy]

I love the fact that wireless service is free with the Kindle. The high price of wireless is the main reason I don't buy an iPhone!

Everytime someone says something like that, I wince. It's all relative I guess. Verizon regularly rakes its smartphone users on wireless. When I had Nextel/Sprint, my "Internet access" would have cost me much more than the $59/month I was paying with my "free incoming calls" business plan. Now, my AT&T rollover minutes are leaving me with such an awesome amount of "rollover" I really don't need free incoming calls and my Internet usage is unlimited... same $59 looking at me. I get the impression most interested iPhone buyers haven't had such treatment. T-Mobile only added unlimited Internet in the last 4 months I think.

Regarding Kindle, I think the free wireless is super-awesome, but I bristle at being charged a month FEE to "subscribe" to a blog. Moreover, it also seems *goofy* for Amazon to mention that they'll charge you to convert you're other content, and simply leave off native PDF support. There was a pointed comment on TechDirt about it...

The one undeniably innovative thing about the Kindle is the free wireless EVDO access. The limits on access to Internet content may be an attempt to keep the bandwidth consumption down. But in a world where you can get an unlimited data plan for your iPhone for $20 per month, they should at least have an option for a flat rate "all you can eat" data plan, which would allow you to access Internet content and subscribe to an unlimited number of blogs, newspapers, and public domain books. Bezos obviously wants this to be the iPod of the printed word. But one of the crucial factors behind the iPod's success is that it gives you free access to content in open formats. You can rip your CDs and listen to them on an iPod. You can subscribe to an unlimited number of podcasts. With the Kindle, in contrast, Amazon apparently expects customers to buy an unfamiliar proprietary device, and then pay a premium to read content like blogs and public domain books that's available for free on the Internet. Somehow I don't think that very many people are going to go for that.

It seems like a very visionary product to me. I will consider buying one by the end of the year.

Visionary products (which it certainly is) tend to make some people reach for their wallets simply for the promise it represents. I'm sure a number of people loved the Segue when it came out. It I had that kind of money, I may have bought one too.

I think its likely that the Kindle's retail price highly subsidizes the monthly fees, but I would have preferred a lower-priced device (if possible)... even $299 with an optional $3-4/mo data plan. Let it use your computer as a wireless proxy or use WiFi, whatever. You're currently paying for the data plan, you just don't FEEL it. It's like saying the iPhone costs $1840. with 2 years of free service. Wow! Cool. Meh.

I'll be very interested to hear whether Amazons' Whispernet starts booting hackers in the upcoming months, and whether any Kindles ever become "banned" as Microsoft bans modded XBoxes. There is a lot of risk in Amazon's strategy. It depends a lot in people using the service as intended. As Apple has learned the hard way, you can get pretty beat up in the public eye if your customers start finding unintended or even pre-mature uses that cut away at the economy you'd worked so hard to create.

~ CB

 

[mward333]

Cleverboy, you've got a lot of good, insightful comments. I agree with you that the high price of the Kindle is subsidizing the "free" wireless service. The $399 initial price is a bit high, let's say.

I wouldn't be paying to subscribe to any blogs, so the price of blogs doesn't bother me. I would perhaps subscribe to the NY Times, which I read several times a day online right now--for free, of course--so I do not like the cost that Amazon charges for reading the NY Times on the Kindle.

You mentioned a lower price for the Kindle:

"$299 with an optional $3-4/mo data plan"

If we get 25 months of use from the Kindle, then we're back up to $399 with your proposed $4 / month data plan. So the price of the Kindle could perhaps be called reasonable; I don't know.

You make many good points, and I appreciate your insight. There are certainly a lot of things to weigh and consider. It really depends on each individual and how they plan to use the device. I could just wait until the rev B is released and the price of the Kindle drops a little bit!

 

[Cubytus]

Di I read "no PDF support" in the previous posts ?? That's simply hilarious, becauseeach and every book down here (including legal ones) on the Internet are PDF. I didn't thought Amazon would cut off itself from 95% of the market :S

Must be something I missed, it's too big. Even Apple did support MP3 in their iPod, which is not their format.

 

[Lesser Evets]

This is one of those future products the visionaries predicted coming for years. I already predicted this and hoped for it 15 years ago. Why it took so long is odd... even odder is how limited it is, and how 1989 it is designed. And truly bizarre is the price.

This thing is the lego version of what is to come in a few years when Jobs gets off his turtle necked ass and begins working out the real function of these book-type devices. Should be a retarded form of the notebook computer, with specific multi-media information conveying technology; not for work aside from writing, but all the reading, seeing and hearing people need in a smaller version of the laptop with a better screen.

Apple has all the ducks in a row, they just need to move on it.

Think of it this way - when most people travel, or go into meetings, or are in school, they don't need something to work in Photoshop, render 3D, build intricate websites, play involving games, store every scrap of info you ever collected on the internet, or to store tons and tons of media. You need something that can display graphics, video, sounds, internet browsing, address book, calendar, chat, and can be legible anywhere, and accept handwriting easily. Doesn't have to be some decked out super device, just a wireless adjunct to other computers. Trim all the crap out of notebooks, trim down the size, make it one solid piece, make that paper screen, and make it do all the things I described. if it can handle MORE, then bonus. If not, big whoop.

 

[carlgo]

Apple need to do something like this, but it can't JUST be for eBooks.

Make it a tablet computer that also let you read eBooks. Kinda low powered, but very functional. eBooks could be bought through the iTMS, but also on the iTunes WiFi Store. Not only that, work out deals with Barnes and Noble, Books-a-Million, etc. to let you buy digital books from their stores...kinda like how you can go to Star Bucks and buy their music.

The eBooks should NOT cost as much as a physical book. For instance, if the physical book is $10, the eBook should be around $6 or $7. You SHOULD be able to let someone borrow an eBook via Bonjour, WiFi, USB, BlueTooth, etc.; but it will be gone from your device until they "give" it back...or better yet, they can put expiration dates on borrowed items. You can set it to let someone borrow a book for a week. Your book would be "gone" or "disabled/invisible" until the expiration date arrives. Then you would have access to your book again and it would be deleted from the borrower's device. You shouldn't be able to make copies of eBooks either.

This device should read PDFs.

You should be able to do presentations with this device.

Also, this device from Apple should probably use *gulp* a stylus. You can write notes on pages and such. If it doesn't use a stylus, I guess typing on it like the iPhone will have to do.

You should be able to get magazine subscriptions via iTunes also for this Apple device. The subscriptions should also be cheaper than physical ones.

This device should be more than just an eBook reader. It should also have Safari built in, iSight for video conferencing, play music and videos (of course), receive email, and other things like the iPhone and iPod Touch.

There should be a version of iWork that works on this device. It should be able to connect to network printers also. Perhaps even iLife could run on it, but I don't know about powerful software like Adobe CS3. That's a bit much. No one would really want to try to run something like that on a slightly limited device. It should be more powerful than an iPhone, but less than a MacBook.

It should have perhaps around a 32GB SSD. 1GB of RAM. It should be as thin as an iPhone, but maybe a 7x5 in. screen.

iChat should also work on this device.

Other applications should be available for this device also. Doctors should be able to use it, moms should be able to use it, people working out should be able to use it. People will find reasons to use it.

The price of this device should be between the top iPhone and the MacBook. Maybe around $599 - $699.

Maybe it could be called iPad, iNote, or just Newton.

That would all be fine for some, but I think there is a huge market for just a simple reader that has a great screen for reading and easy book purchasing features.

Amazon got some of this right, and styling isn't everything, but, man, someone must have worked overtime to come up with such a scary and intimidating design.

This would make a perfect gift for my wife if the design was nicer
and sold at a realistic price. I'll just wait.

 

[redrabbit]

Di I read "no PDF support" in the previous posts ?? That's simply hilarious, becauseeach and every book down here (including legal ones) on the Internet are PDF. I didn't thought Amazon would cut off itself from 95% of the market :S

It's very easy and free to convert a pdf to one of the supported formats.

 

[davidwes]

This thing is the lego version of what is to come in a few years when Jobs gets off his turtle necked ass and begins working out the real function of these book-type devices.

Apple has all the ducks in a row, they just need to move on it.

You need something that can display graphics, video, sounds, internet browsing, address book, calendar, chat, and can be legible anywhere, and accept handwriting easily. Doesn't have to be some decked out super device, just a wireless adjunct to other computers. Trim all the crap out of notebooks, trim down the size, make it one solid piece, make that paper screen, and make it do all the things I described. if it can handle MORE, then bonus. If not, big whoop.

Umm. Its called an iPhone/iPod Touch. Really. It does or will do everything you ask for in the next few years.

Just look at today's version. Its small and light weight. Relatively cheap. It has the internet to read the ny time for FREE. It read blogs for FREE. It does mail .. I can keep going on. And this is version 1!!!!!

 

[ivan1234]

I wouldn't buy this product but if Apple releases a similar product/service I would be seriously interested.

 

[CyberBob859]

Unnecessary step

It's very easy and free to convert a pdf to one of the supported formats.

But why should I have to do this? I have over 1000 PDFs I've collected over the years as reference material. I have to go through and convert them just to get them in the Kindle? It's stupid.

And, if I email my document to the Kindle, I get charged a $0.10 conversion fee? I'll pass.

If Amazon wants me to buy a Kindle for $400, make my life EASIER with less expense.

 

[Digital Skunk]

If Amazon wants me to buy a Kindle for $400, make my life EASIER with less expense.

Agreed. For me however, they'd have to make my life easier with less expense, and a device that does more, so I am not carrying around a bag full of gadgets that overlap each other. It's all about convergence and multitasking. Not whipping out a device for each individual task I must do.

 

[Unspeaked]

Agreed. For me however, they'd have to make my life easier with less expense, and a device that does more, so I am not carrying around a bag full of gadgets that overlap each other. It's all about convergence and multitasking. Not whipping out a device for each individual task I must do.

Yeah, it seems like this is what people have been asking for ever since the first Palms were making the rounds in the late 90s.

I don't know if it's just because the manufacturers can't agree on what an "end-all" device needs to be able to do or the end-user can't agree on what their needs are, but here we are ten years later and though there's a lot of devices around that are this close, there's very few people who don't carry around at least a couple of things over the course of the day...

 

[Cubytus]

CyberBob859 and Digital Skunk.

Each and every manufacturer of anything here wants us to convert, convert, then convert again from one format to another. If it's not so terrible for ONE text document, as there isn't any loss, it is a BIG problem for files such as music.

The point seems to be, manufacturers are lazy. They don't want to support all the standards (yes, MP3 and OGG are music standards, as PDF, ODT and DOC (yuk) are text standards), even though hardware solutions for this already exist (costly, I admit), and if they don't, there's always a software engineer willing to do it (very inexpensive with economics of scale)

And what's the point in having the same files taking up double of space on the hard disk? I know HDD are quite inexpensive, but it is a worthless trouble, in my opinion. Is there a conspiracy down there between hard drive manufacturers, Kindle and Apple/Microsoft/Adobe (even Linux distros, for the most part ?!??!) to put out mutually incompatible file formats, as well as bloatware? Don't misunderstand me: Mac OS X is bloatware (more than 10Gigs installed), but good bloatware, and fast. On the other hand, I don't really understant what Vista offers for the 10x spaces it takes over a XP installation, apart from wearing each and every flash drive you put because it simply can't get enough RAM in 2Gigs.

And paying for converting...Guess it's just a question of days before someone puts out a free PDF converter, if Amazon persists on keeping his device incompatible with the market. Oh. Wait. They MAKE the market :S

As for not having multiple devices overlap each other's function, I'm quite aware with that, being a footborne student. I will readily accept to take around a really full-fledged iPhone: 802.11g and n ready, GSM phone (of course!), with some sort of sufficient disk space to run NeoOffice or any application I might like to edit a bit of text, read PDFs, answer to emails, and take around my music and some videos. As for power, they might include a passive mode screen when there's enough light around, and various power-saving features. It's already feasible with current technology, not a geek's dream! The battery will need a bigger capacity, but it's small matter for Apple (when they don't explode). The terrible point is, the iPhone is probably already capable of doing this (except disk space, even if a 400MB NeoOffice install still keeps much space for a bit of music - paradox...), but Apple doesn't want you to know. They just lock the customer in, even if they don't have financial interest in it, and I don't understand why.
And, if ever I would need to do more work, need more power, or simply do the same work more comfortably, just tote a MBP.

Just two devices for the whole day will make my way.

 

[redrabbit]

Don't know if anyone is interested but I just placed my order for one for my birthday gift to myself. Because they are in such high demand, they are sold out and I won't be getting mine for a while, but that's ok. It'll give me a chance to finish up the last of my print books

If anyone would like a review, I'd be happy to publish my first impressions and thoughts.