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Hes Nikke

macrumors member
Apr 16, 2001
94
13
That Headline Gore tho.

> Amazon Joins Apple as U.S.'s Second Trillion Dollar Company

There, I fixed it.
 

TallManNY

macrumors 601
Nov 5, 2007
4,451
1,310
Wow, only 1/21 the debt of our ENTIRE nation....take that for thought.

Right, which is why, arguably, the U.S. debt isn't that big a deal. Crazy as that sounds, the U.S. produces some incredibly valuable companies. So it presumably can handle the current debt load relatively easily.
Of course if the debt always goes up, then eventually it will be a huge problem. And there seems to be little ability by the government leaders to agree on a means to lower the U.S. debt, so the debt increasing rapidly seems likely.
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All else being equal, AAPL would be much higher than the current $1.1T had they not done the buybacks and dividends the last several years. If all that cash was still in the coffers, the market cap would be a few hundred billion more.

AAPL is finally trading at 20+ P/E. IMO, it's still trading at a significant discount (I feel ~ 25 P/E is fairer) and should outperform the market in the next several years.

AMZN, on the other hand, keeps defying my expectations. Surely I wished that I had bought a few hundred shares back in the 90's. Hell, I shoulda bought a bunch a year ago. It trades at such a high P/E, that I'm afraid that at some point, the "market" will demand AMZN to show profits. Then the stock won't be able to support such high P/E ratios (convoluted wall street logic).

The buybacks decreased the number of shares outstanding, which ties in directly to the P/E metric you cite as too low. I suspect they helped increase AAPL's market cap more than just having the cash sitting around.

AMZN is crazy. I also wonder when Wall Street will look for it to show profits. But I guess as long as the growth potential exists, it can keep the stock price high. When your "story" is taking over all commerce through web traffic sales, and you keep making progress year after year towards that, then you have a heck of a story.
 

Jmausmuc

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2014
779
1,377
I don't get the market's infatuation with Amazon and their paper thin margins. Here is a little comparison via CNBC:

[Apple] generated a $48.35 billion profit during its fiscal 2017 and made $13.8 billion in net income during the March 2018 quarter, while Amazon's total net income since inception is about $9.6 billion.
Apple, made more profit in one quarter than Amazon has made...ever.

Doesn’t really matter. The current stock price is nothing but the public’s expectation for a company’s earning potential in the future. The price reflects the price, current investors are willing to pay for the stocks. As such, they have basically missed out on the past profits and only care about the future.
The past net income only matters in that it is one of the metrics to determine future earning potential.
 

guzhogi

macrumors 68040
Aug 31, 2003
3,457
1,477
Wherever my feet take me…
Carl Icahn probably still thinks Apple's undervalued. Probably wouldn't be happy until Apple's stock priced raised to BRK-A levels (currently 316900 as I write this). Since market cap = stock price * outstanding shares, that means Apple would be worth over $1,500 trillion.
 

palmerc2

macrumors 68000
Feb 29, 2008
1,621
683
Los Angeles
Apple's not the first, people buy headlines.

The Dutch East India Company was the world’s first trillion dollar company by far, I think in current valuation it’d be worth $9 trillion or something close to that.

However, this headline says Amazon is the second U.S. company to reach $1 trillion.
 

Karma*Police

macrumors 68020
Jul 15, 2012
2,020
1,738
The stock is overpriced at this point just like prime. $120 up front for “free” shipping is highway robbery now that most other retailers offer real free shipping. Walmart is generally cheaper to boot.

And prime video and their paltry music service is definitely not worth $10/month.
 
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GtrDude

macrumors 6502a
Apr 17, 2011
591
673
Maybe Jeff will celebrate and give his workers one cent an hour race.
I'm not holding my breath.
 

ftaok

macrumors 603
Jan 23, 2002
6,386
1,419
East Coast
The buybacks decreased the number of shares outstanding, which ties in directly to the P/E metric you cite as too low. I suspect they helped increase AAPL's market cap more than just having the cash sitting around.
It's all theoretical anyway, however, the buybacks also removed that amount of cash out of the market cap. Buybacks and dividends shouldn't affect the P/E precisely because the metric is on a per share basis.

But yes, the market was punishing AAPL for having too much cash lying around, so they had to do something with it. And since they couldn't find anything worthwhile to buy with it, they started paying back to the shareholders.
 

dannyyankou

macrumors G4
Mar 2, 2012
10,945
21,919
Westchester, NY
Wow, Amazon's share prices are $2000 compared to Apple's $200? That's surprising.

That said, Amazon haven't had a stock split, though even with that in account it's still a huge difference. It just shows how comparatively low Apple's market valuation is.
Apple has had several stock splits in their history. If Apple never had one, they’d be above $2000/share also
 

nvmls

macrumors 65816
Mar 31, 2011
1,332
3,721
The Dutch East India Company was the world’s first trillion dollar company by far, I think in current valuation it’d be worth $9 trillion or something close to that.

However, this headline says Amazon is the second U.S. company to reach $1 trillion.

True, however.. "A good friend once told me, you are memory, without them we equal nothing"
 

Squeak825

macrumors 6502
Sep 5, 2007
416
282
Wow, Amazon's share prices are $2000 compared to Apple's $200? That's surprising.

That said, Amazon haven't had a stock split, though even with that in account it's still a huge difference. It just shows how comparatively low Apple's market valuation is.

pzv5j7l.jpg
 

rizzo41999

macrumors 6502
May 27, 2009
410
1,108
MA
Wow, Amazon's share prices are $2000 compared to Apple's $200? That's surprising.

That said, Amazon haven't had a stock split, though even with that in account it's still a huge difference. It just shows how comparatively low Apple's market valuation is.
Stock split
 

BuddyTronic

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2008
1,547
1,133
Wow, Amazon's share prices are $2000 compared to Apple's $200? That's surprising.

That said, Amazon haven't had a stock split, though even with that in account it's still a huge difference. It just shows how comparatively low Apple's market valuation is.


Yikes! The things that people think doesn't surprise me anymore... Someone will do better than me to point out the error in your thinking... I hope!
 

borgranta

macrumors 6502
May 9, 2018
304
96
I like Apple better than Amazon since hearing on the news that Amazon allows sellers to falsify country of origin labeling on products sold through Amazon. They are violating the spirit of the truth in labeling law if not the letter of the law but pending legislation and/or a pending executive order will both fix the loophole that allows companies like Amazon and their sellers to circumvent the law.
 
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BuddyTronic

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2008
1,547
1,133
Are you? Amazon, in all of its existence, made less money than Apple does in the average quarter.

And no, things aren’t getting much better: in Europe they increased sales but also losses, for example.

AMZN is hugely overpriced, while Apple shares are still undervalued at just 20x PE not even considering the huge mountain of cash they are amassing.

That’s precisely why Buffett loaded on AAPL and doesn’t own a single AMZN share.


Remember thought that a LOT of folks here erroneously believe a stock split 2:1 will instantly double your investment, and this other guy who thinks a $2000 share price means the company is much bigger than the $200 share price company. - You know what I mean.... The best stock analysts are not even far off from this same mis-informed mentality.
 

borgranta

macrumors 6502
May 9, 2018
304
96
Amazon made this much by exploiting workers and sacrificing workplace safety and sanitation whereas Apple achieved it first while treating both employees and customers well.
 

falainber

macrumors 68030
Mar 16, 2016
2,789
3,237
Wild West
Amazon will forever always be known as the 2nd trillion dollar company.:p

Actually, Chinese oil company was the first (though not for long) a while back. Apple was second (but the first US) company to reach $1 trillion.
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Amazon made this much by exploiting workers and sacrificing workplace safety and sanitation whereas Apple achieved it first while treating both employees and customers well.
Are you kidding? Have you read about Foxconn workers (who manufacture iPhones) jumping to death from the roof of the factory?
 

Blaze4G

macrumors 65816
Oct 31, 2015
1,298
1,177
The stock is overpriced at this point just like prime. $120 up front for “free” shipping is highway robbery now that most other retailers offer real free shipping. Walmart is generally cheaper to boot.

And prime video and their paltry music service is definitely not worth $10/month.
You're not using it don't kbow all the prime benefits which is why you think it's expensive.
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,610
6,883
Right, which is why, arguably, the U.S. debt isn't that big a deal. Crazy as that sounds, the U.S. produces some incredibly valuable companies. So it presumably can handle the current debt load relatively easily.

The fourth largest annual budget item is paying just the interest accrued on the national debt. To be clear, that $310B budget item isn't paying off any of the debt, it's just paying to kick the can down the road one more year, at which time we will do the exact same thing again except it will be even bigger.

To put that $310 billion interest payment in perspective, NASA's 2018 budget is $19 billion and the US Army's 2017 budget was $148 billion. It seems like a "big deal" to me.
 
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ani4ani

Cancelled
May 4, 2012
1,703
1,536
Amazon will forever always be known as the 2nd trillion dollar company.:p
....and the company that achieved the feat in 18 years less than it took Apple....and also sans bailouts
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Amazon made this much by exploiting workers and sacrificing workplace safety and sanitation whereas Apple achieved it first while treating both employees and customers well.
You really believe that don’t you!
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,610
6,883
"World's second trillion dollar US company" is a poorly written title.

That's like saying the "world's largest US city". Why don't you just say the "largest US city"?
 
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