Amazon Set to Unveil $199 'Kindle Fire' Tablet

[chagla]

Then they can show the two Fire owners getting buyer's remorse when they realize they have to pay nearly a hundred bucks a year for Prime (which only makes sense if you're a hardcore Amazon user), they have a small number of apps to download, can't use apps that require an accelerometer, can't take pictures or video, can't Skype, can't surf the web without Wifi, can't do anything that requires more than two fingers for input, can't read it at the beach or in any bright sunlight (a former selling point of the Kindle), can't store more than 8GB worth of media (which sucks I'd you're gonna be out camping or somewhere without Wifi), and can't even turn the volume up or down without using the onscreen controls (which can be touchy on most touchscreen devices).

Oh, and there's no built-in email app. The Playbook was crucified for that. Sure, it cost more than the Fire, but my $30 Sanyo Katana phone has freaking email.

i can list many more things that you CAN'T do on an iphone. but what is the point? It IS what it IS.

and as people have already pointed out, Amazon prime is NOT REQUIRED. Fire will come with 1month trial. it is a great service. for $79 you will get two day shipping regardless of order amount, and free streaming of over 10,000 movies+shows. again, it's OPTIONAL.

 

[linux2mac]

I think it was a good idea for Apple to keep its iOS and Mac OSX software separate unlike Windows 8.

A desktop operating system is not designed/optimized to run on a touch device as well as third party applications. While Metro addresses some of these problems, by adding the the Desktop OS will make it more bloated on such a device.

The tablet that is needed to run such a desktop OS will make it bulkier, short battery life, heating problems ( Might need a fan ) Until technology catches up with these issues I think user experience with such devices wont be well received.

Apple just gets it right. Why don't folks get it? The sooner other companies realize that the better off they will be. All the competition does is try to one up Apple but instead they end up embarrassing themselves by delivering crappy products. The iPhone and iPad are the best mobile devices out there.

 

[Timechaser]

Tethering the Kindle fire?

I want to buy a KF for my 8 year old son, he has a ipod touch that he watches movies, plays games and facetimes with daily but often wants to use my iPad because of the larger screen.

According to the spec listed on amazons web site the new KF does not support connecting to ad-hoc (or peer-to-peer) Wi-Fi networks.

I'm wondering if this would mean that something like "MyFi" or Seagate GoFlex Satellite Wireless storage device would not connect for streaming media content

For me, offering only 8GB of local storage is the only down side to this device and even though they offer some free cloud storage or their Prime subscription it's usefulness would be zip-zero when away from a wi-fi signal.

 

[alent1234]

I want to buy a KF for my 8 year old son, he has a ipod touch that he watches movies, plays games and facetimes with daily but often wants to use my iPad because of the larger screen.

According to the spec listed on amazons web site the new KF does not support connecting to ad-hoc (or peer-to-peer) Wi-Fi networks.

I'm wondering if this would mean that something like "MyFi" or Seagate GoFlex Satellite Wireless storage device would not connect for streaming media content

For me, offering only 8GB of local storage is the only down side to this device and even though they offer some free cloud storage or their Prime subscription it's usefulness would be zip-zero when away from a wi-fi signal.

the peer to peer network issue is an android issue

knowing google they will fix it in 15 years

 

[rjohnstone]

the peer to peer network issue is an android issue

knowing google they will fix it in 15 years

It's an old Android issue that has already been resolved by the dev community.
Android can actually connect to an ad-hoc network just fine.
Google has unfortunately disabled the feature in wpa_supplicant (no clue why they did this), so you have to root your device to enable it.
There are several apps available to assist the less tech savvy in doing this.

 

[Oletros]

I want to buy a KF for my 8 year old son, he has a ipod touch that he watches movies, plays games and facetimes with daily but often wants to use my iPad because of the larger screen.

According to the spec listed on amazons web site the new KF does not support connecting to ad-hoc (or peer-to-peer) Wi-Fi networks.

I'm wondering if this would mean that something like "MyFi" or Seagate GoFlex Satellite Wireless storage device would not connect for streaming media content

Wifi hot spots don't use had hoc networks in general

 

[vrDrew]

I don't see any other quality tablets in the same price range. Accelerometer and camera will be added in when they refresh it shortly after holiday season..

I am quite certain that the Kindle Fire's low price point will earn it a decent sized share of the tablet market. But I think there are a number of factors that mitigate against it disrupting the market that the iPad has established. And I think your comment about adding an Accelerator and Camera highlights the problem.

Amazon won't be able to add these features. The only way a heavily subsidized product like the KF can become profitable is if it adheres to a long refresh cycle.

Amazon clearly went with "commodity" components in creating the KF. The hardware seems borrowed from the (failed) RIM Playbook, and the software is a (free) left over version of an obsolescent version of Android. Amazon has clearly shown that it will invest heavily in its profitable market segments (ie. content delivery infrastructure) - but it simply cannot do the same on a hardware platform that loses money with every sale. It needs to encourage Fire users to hold onto the same hardware for several years - long enough to recoup the subsidy necessary to create the low price.

The second issue involves the Content service business that Amazon provides. It is unfortunately neither very profitable, nor is it global in scale.

Apple basically runs its iTunes store at or near breakeven, despite doing billions in business, simply to provide a content stream for it iDevices. Amazon is going to have to compete in this same market. The volume of such low-margin business necessary to recoup the Fire subsidy is necessarily going to have to be immense.

Which brings us to the other problem: Content is a highly regionalized business. Publication rights for movies, books, and music are limited to individual countries. A seller has to negotiate separate deals for each country they operate in. Apple only this week was able to open its iTunes service in a dozen or so European countries - despite being in the business for a deacde.

Previous versions of the Kindle have not sold well internationally, and there is little reason to think the KF will be any different (why would Amazon sell the Fire in France, at a loss, if it is unable to sell content their that would allow them to make up the loss?)

The Kindle Fire will very likely sell hundreds of thousands of units this holiday season. But the economics and market realities it faces make it unlikely to match the worldwide phenomenon that the iPad has become.

 

[linux2mac]

The Kindle Fire will very likely sell hundreds of thousands of units this holiday season. But the economics and market realities it faces make it unlikely to match the worldwide phenomenon that the iPad has become.

Exactly. This is far from an iPad killer. The iPad is to tablets what the iPod is to music players.

 

[Bernard SG]

I am quite certain that the Kindle Fire's low price point will earn it a decent sized share of the tablet market. But I think there are a number of factors that mitigate against it disrupting the market that the iPad has established. And I think your comment about adding an Accelerator and Camera highlights the problem.

Amazon won't be able to add these features. The only way a heavily subsidized product like the KF can become profitable is if it adheres to a long refresh cycle.

Amazon clearly went with "commodity" components in creating the KF. The hardware seems borrowed from the (failed) RIM Playbook, and the software is a (free) left over version of an obsolescent version of Android. Amazon has clearly shown that it will invest heavily in its profitable market segments (ie. content delivery infrastructure) - but it simply cannot do the same on a hardware platform that loses money with every sale. It needs to encourage Fire users to hold onto the same hardware for several years - long enough to recoup the subsidy necessary to create the low price.

The second issue involves the Content service business that Amazon provides. It is unfortunately neither very profitable, nor is it global in scale.

Apple basically runs its iTunes store at or near breakeven, despite doing billions in business, simply to provide a content stream for it iDevices. Amazon is going to have to compete in this same market. The volume of such low-margin business necessary to recoup the Fire subsidy is necessarily going to have to be immense.

Which brings us to the other problem: Content is a highly regionalized business. Publication rights for movies, books, and music are limited to individual countries. A seller has to negotiate separate deals for each country they operate in. Apple only this week was able to open its iTunes service in a dozen or so European countries - despite being in the business for a deacde.

Previous versions of the Kindle have not sold well internationally, and there is little reason to think the KF will be any different (why would Amazon sell the Fire in France, at a loss, if it is unable to sell content their that would allow them to make up the loss?)

The Kindle Fire will very likely sell hundreds of thousands of units this holiday season. But the economics and market realities it faces make it unlikely to match the worldwide phenomenon that the iPad has become.

Absolutely great post!!
And about the part I emphasized, there's another issue: selling at a loss is illegal in France AFAIK, and possibly in a lot of other EU countries as well, in terms of competition laws and regulations. This might be the reason why the Fire is US only.

 

[lesiu]

Amazon won't be able to add these features. The only way a heavily subsidized product like the KF can become profitable is if it adheres to a long refresh cycle.

/.../
It needs to encourage Fire users to hold onto the same hardware for several years - long enough to recoup the subsidy necessary to create the low price.

/.../

nice comment, however the points based on the assumption that the KF is "a heavily subsidized product" seems not to be valid according to the 150$ KF BoM estimate from eetimes/siliconstrategies:
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4228505/Kindle-Fire-profitable-at-estimated--150-BoM

I guess a next iteration will come sooner than later , and the KF owners will have a good reason to update as there are great low BoM cost features left to be added..
e.g. I do not mind to pay 50$ more for GPS, Bluetooth & micro (as from the BoM analyse above the addition would cost only 1.5$ ...)

 

[Timechaser]

Wifi hot spots don't use had hoc networks in general

Ok- but would the GoFlex be considered a ad-hoc/peer to peer device?

 

[divinox]

Absolutely great post!!
And about the part I emphasized, there's another issue: selling at a loss is illegal in France AFAIK, and possibly in a lot of other EU countries as well, in terms of competition laws and regulations. This might be the reason why the Fire is US only.

Selling at a loss is not illegal (per se) in France or any other EU country (to my knowledge). For example, every single non-nintendo gaming console has been sold at a loss.

 

[Bernard SG]

Selling at a loss is not illegal (per se) in France or any other EU country (to my knowledge). For example, every single non-nintendo gaming console has been sold at a loss.

It is.
An example, involving... (drumroll) ... Amazon :

http://www.pcworld.com/article/140525/amazon_no_more_free_delivery_in_france.html

Granted, it's a complicated legislation to enforce.
The case of game consoles you mention was probably not infringing because the distributors did not sell at a loss, but the source took the loss overseas.

 

[highdefjunkie]

I think I'm the only one that thinks this is an iPad killer. And by killer, I mean takes it's #1 spot as the market leader. As the Kindle Fire 2 and Fire 3 comes out, they will still be at that $199 price point. They will also get better and more feature packed. I don't think Apple will ever sell the iPad for less than $499. People love Amazon and it is one of the most visited sites on the internet, it will have the kindles on the homepage convincing visitors to buy it at all times.

I don't think it will ever take down the Ipad. But, It will make a huge dent into the tablet market and succeed where devices like Xoom failed. Though Xoom was a piece of garbage, it was priced way to high. Fire on the other hand will succeed because of it's price point. Think of all of kids who have begged their parents for an Ipad but they couldn't afford it. Most kids just wanna play games like Angry birds. Fire already sold 100,000 units in 8 hours and sales by the end of 2012 are likely to be around 15,0000,000 tablets sold. We will see. I think it will be extremely successful (Hell I even created a message board for it.)

I personally never see myself buying one. I have to much invested in my Ipad and I also think the Fire is to small.

 

[kdarling]

Wifi hot spots don't use had hoc networks in general

+1.

Ok- but would the GoFlex be considered a ad-hoc/peer to peer device?

Not sure, but GoFlex released an Android media app to access it.

 

[alent1234]

i doubt they are selling these at a loss. every CPU is binned and sold depending on the quality of the manufacturing. Amazon can buy the cheapest CPU's, run them at 1GHz or so.

i've read stories that you can buy an android 2.3 tablet just like this in china for $199. they are just adding the skin and some software.

 

[HarryPot]

You too. Dont bundle Sony with the rest. Sony is the 5th largest media conglomerate in the world. So yeah. Games? They own it. Movies? They own it! Music? Sure as hell they own it. Tell me again, why couldnt Sony compete on content?

Because they don't have a good distribution channel, one of their very own.

I know a lot of people who use iTunes to buy musics, tv shows, etc., and also quite a few people who use Amazon for buying music, and above all, books.

Sony might have a huge production capacity, and they may own many game, music and movie production companies, but they haven't been able to create good distribution channels to reach costumers directly.

That's just not what they are good at.

 

[Oletros]

Amazon won't be able to add these features. The only way a heavily subsidized product like the KF can become profitable is if it adheres to a long refresh cycle..

KF has accelerometer

 

[vrDrew]

sales by the end of 2012 are likely to be around 15,0000,000 tablets sold..

I will guarantee you that the Fire will not sell 15 million units in the next year.

For the foreseeable future it is likely to be restricted to North America. (See my previous post for the reasons why.) And 15 million units mean it would need to penetrate more than 10% of US households. For a product with essentially zero retail point-of-sale, that is an impossibly high number.

My "back of the envelope" numbers say between a fifth and a third of that volume: 3 to 5 million. Respectable, but nowhere near enough to be "disruptive."

 

[Bernard SG]

I will guarantee you that the Fire will not sell 15 million units in the next year.

For the foreseeable future it is likely to be restricted to North America. (See my previous post for the reasons why.) And 15 million units mean it would need to penetrate more than 10% of US households. For a product with essentially zero retail point-of-sale, that is an impossibly high number.

My "back of the envelope" numbers say between a fifth and a third of that volume: 3 to 5 million. Respectable, but nowhere near enough to be "disruptive."

Some writer on techcrunch claims to have knowledge of 4 million units order by Amazon for 2011 sales alone.
Sounds utterly absurd to me, but hey, what do I know...

 

[lesiu]

Absolutely great post!!
And about the part I emphasized, there's another issue: selling at a loss is illegal in France AFAIK, and possibly in a lot of other EU countries as well, in terms of competition laws and regulations. This might be the reason why the Fire is US only.

The BoM is ~150$ => there is no issue with 'selling at a loss' ..
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4228505/Kindle-Fire-profitable-at-estimated--150-BoM

 

[alent1234]

I will guarantee you that the Fire will not sell 15 million units in the next year.

For the foreseeable future it is likely to be restricted to North America. (See my previous post for the reasons why.) And 15 million units mean it would need to penetrate more than 10% of US households. For a product with essentially zero retail point-of-sale, that is an impossibly high number.

My "back of the envelope" numbers say between a fifth and a third of that volume: 3 to 5 million. Respectable, but nowhere near enough to be "disruptive."

NYC kindle to ipad ratio is like 5 to 1. 15 million units is very possible.

people are always looking at my ipad on the subway. $499 may be too much for a lot of people but $199 for device that does the same thing except no skype is a christmas treat

i'd sell my ipad in a heartbeat for this if i didn't need the educational apps for my kids. most of what i do on my ipad can easily be done by the Fire

 

[APlotdevice]

I don't see any other quality tablets in the same price range. Accelerometer and camera will be added in when they refresh it shortly after holiday season. And with their cloud service I don't think more memory is necessary. 8GB will be fine for most people anyway.

Media isn't the only thing that takes up memory. Apps, particularly games, can be quite large. About two-thirds of my 32GB iPad's memory is currently occupied by apps. While this may be a little abnormal, I can easily see 8GB being a tight squeeze for many users.

After the holiday season is when the iPad 3 will be announced.

 

[Bernard SG]

The BoM is ~150$ => there is no issue with 'selling at a loss' ..
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4228505/Kindle-Fire-profitable-at-estimated--150-BoM

Even at $150 BoM, when you factor in conversion costs, logistics, (taxes?), R&D of hardware and software there's no room for margin. And 150 is just an estimate. There was a consensus that the base-model of iPod Touch had a BoM of 150, granted that was one year ago, and prices drop, but still... KF has a much bigger screen and 1GHz dual-core at 512 Mb RAM.

 

[samcraig]

It's estimated that the Fire costs $209.63 to make as per IHS.

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