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I have a Kindle and an iPhone and love them both. IMHO, the iPhone is NOT a great reading device for long periods because of the backlit display. The electronic ink on the Kindle is amazing and really makes the experience for those of us who love to read (and yes, Steve we do still exist!).

For me, the problem with the first gen Kindle is the form factor. It's awkward and I find it's hard to keep from turning pages inadvertently. I'm considering selling my Kindle and buying Kindle2 because of the improved form factor and better resolution. The resolution for pictures (not text) on the first gen model is terrible. Battery life and storage haven't been an issue for me so far.
 
I wish they'd get rid of that stupid keyboard. People don't spend much time typing while reading, and a touchscreen keyboard that's simply not there when you don't need it would be better IMHO for an eBook reader.

This was my thought, as well. Their keyboard looks terrible, a mass of little dots arranged in a rectangle. If they're going to create physical keys they should at least arrange them properly.

But the Kindle is a reader, not a writer. You don't need to write for long stretches of time. I agree that a virtual keyboard would have made a lot more sense, and would have given them a bigger screen.

I have Stanza on my iPhone. My eyes aren't in great shape, but I have no trouble reading books with Stanza. The type is small, but it's clear enough.
 
I'm surprised no one's brought this up: Sprint may not make it through the year, as they're in dire financial straits. What happens to the Kindle network if Sprint goes under?

I don't think the iPhone and Kindle are comparable, because the Kindle has a much larger screen and the text is designed to be more book-like. I could never read a book on the iPhone, as I can't look at a screen for that long. That's partly due to health reasons for me, but I can't imagine I'm alone in thinking that even an iPhone really isn't meant to be used for long sittings.
 
If it weren't for the frightening price, I'd seriously consider getting a Kindle, too. :)

I think Amazon needs to build a less costly version minus the EVDO modem but include a USB 2.0 port. That way, given the increasing availability of broadband access Amazon can write a download program that as part of it opens a small web browser window to select and download various ebook files to your hard drive and then when you plug in the Kindle automatically sync the files to the reader.

While there is a joy to reading a real book, I like the potential of the Kindle for a couple of reasons:

1) You can generate bookmarks that can quickly skip to any part of the ebook.

2) You can look up specific words and phrases in the ebook really quickly. You can even look up specific words and phrases across multiple books stored on the player--something like that would be really useful for a long book series like C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia or J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter books (if Scholastic or Bloomsbury allows for a Kindle version of the books).

3) With modern technology, the Kindle is lighter than a lot of single hardback books out there. And you can store many books on the device--with storage capacity rapidly increasing with higher and higher density flash memory.
 
[QUOTE ]Won't Amazon just kill themselves if they sell eBooks on the iPhone? It has all the advantages over the Kindle! Smaller, Higher capacity, colour display, larger market, etc.[/QUOTE]

I agree. It's just a matter of time before we see an app for reading books on the iPhone.

And Jobs is right: people don't read books any more. Jobs knew where the money was: in music.

But adding an app would meet all needs.
 
really, once you can buy premium book content on your iPhone, then the kindle becomes pointless. It's a specialty device whose functionality will be absorbed by smartphones.

The trick is getting that premium content accessible on the iPhone.

arn

The trick is also getting the iPhone to have a battery life of over a week (with wireless off and just reading), and also to make the display as suitable for reading as the Kindle (which is not backlit).
 
I rarely think Jobs' ideas are flawed, but his thoughts on the book reader/public are definitely flawed.

40% don't read = 60% who do read.
It also means 40% who might read more, not 60% who will read less.
Jobs is about the communication of information.
Why would he slough such an idea with a ludicrous, simplistic dismissal?
People need to read more as the world becomes more complex, and media readers like this will take dominance in the market within the next 10 years.

However, I wouldn't buy a Kindle. What am I getting from it?
I would spend $356 and then pay almost full price for books and just read them electronically?? There's still nothing like being able to flip through and see all the text, or get to pages by sight. Maybe if it was $99 and books on it were $5 instead of $10 or more.

It's a great idea for heavy book/media consumers, and it'll become something better in the next 5 years, but at this time it's an expensive rinky-dink item for tech geeks. Kudos for the battery life.
 
1. Easy to read - I'm not staring at/near a light source, just reflected light;

2. A physical size appropriate to the material - there's an art to page layout, and a technical text is not a fiction paperback;

3. Can have 2, sometimes 3, pages open at once without the need to resize;

4. Can annotate with a comfortable, soft pencil;

5. Original text and annotations at a fantastic resolution;

6. Can be taken into the bathroom - how I love to read in the bath;

7. If lost or damaged, most don't cost the earth to replace;

8. Heuristic "I saw it on or around that page" search algorithms quicker by flipping through pages rather than typing in page numbers then clicking forward/back;

9. Allows wider overview or review of book or chapter through more aggressive page-flipping, with semi-conscious memory reinforcement;

10. Can lend book for an hour or so to friend in class / on train / at work without giving them short tutorial on how to use book;

11. Finding a book on a well-organised bookshelf is quicker than locating and opening an e-book, as well as allowing the eye to take in a huge list of related books with cues on size/shape/etc to help identify and remember them;

12. Indeed, recollection from a physical book seems easier as information can be associated with a particular page and its nuances: the physical layout, the weight of each side of the book, the angle at which you held it, how easy the page was to open, perhaps a slight change in ink tone, a blemish...

13. A good index is almost always sufficient, and the act of scanning through the index helps either jog memory or provide related words (as better electronic search engines are learning to emulate).

If reading on a Kindle is bad, then reading on an iPhone is like squinting at a text through the keyhole of a prison door - sure, the information is there, and to some people that's good enough, but what inefficiency, sterility, and strain on the eyes!

Agreed. I'm building my own library of books and nothing like reading and the sheer pleasure of sipping coffee and turning the page.
 
Only problem with the iPhone is that the screen is a lot smaller than a book. Perhaps the oft rumoured Apple tablet would be the perfect device for reading.

I just finished reading a large fiction novel on my iphone using stanza and it was brilliant. No issues with the screen size whatsoever. Text in landscape mode is about as wide as a regular paperback and after a few pages I totally forgot the interface. I customized the colors so it was yellow/green on black which is easier on my eyes.
 
If I want a book, can I not just download it onto my iphone to read it? C'mon, to me that's pretty much a useless gadget; especially once the flexible oled screens hit the market. So something like the iphone makes the functionality of the kindle obsolete already and something like a flexible oled screen puts its design to shame, hence I give the kindle another two years to dwindle. :cool::apple:
 
iPhone books

really, once you can buy premium book content on your iPhone, then the kindle becomes pointless. It's a specialty device whose functionality will be absorbed by smartphones.

The trick is getting that premium content accessible on the iPhone.

arn

Agreed. I already use Stanza and eReader on my iPhone to read books that I Download for free or purchase off of other eReader sites. With File Magnet I can transfer pdf content and read it on my iPhone quite nicely. That includes magazine articles, documents and even comic books that I have imported to my phone. Finally, Classics is just a very cool app if you haven't read or want to reread some old favorites.

I think Amazon stands to make a ton of money by making its eBook content available for all smart phone platforms.
 
I really want to want a Kindle. However, there is one fundamental flaw with Amazon's approach that makes me not want a Kindle at this point in time: the price.

Are they trying to make money selling e-readers or e-books? If you only needed a single unit, the cost ($359) might not be too bad. But reading is one of those things where everyone in the household who reads needs to have their own unit. After all, reading is one of those activities where multiple people in a household read at the same time.

What about vacation? It would be great to be able to bring dozens of books on a vacation and have lots of choices when it comes time to start a new one (not to mention the ability to download a new book that you just learned about without having to go to the store). However, if we only buy one reader, then the person not using the it is stuck with hardcopy books, which seriously diminishes the advantages of the reader. Therefore we would need two of these. I’m sorry, but I am not going to spend $718 to properly equip our household and I’m not willing to have one of us be the odd person out. So, we both do without.

If Amazon really wants these things to catch on, they need to be willing to lose money on the hardware so they can make money on the software. It is the only way that these will work their way into the mainstream.

PS - IMO, there is no way that reading full-length books on an iPhone is going to replace hardcopy books. An e-reader with eInk just might have a shot if it's marketed and designed properly.
 
I really want to want a Kindle. However, there is one fundamental flaw with Amazon's approach that makes me not want a Kindle at this point in time: the price.
Yup. Same for me. Plus you add in the fact that books still cost money on the Kindle. Why should I shell out $350 for the capability to buy books (that cost more than paperback) when I can buy a paperback for $8. If the Kindle was around $100 I might consider it, but until they lower the price it will stay a novelty item. For that price I could buy an Xbox, an AppleTV, an iPod Touch and any number of multi-purpose devices instead of this one-trick-pony.
 
Won't Amazon just kill themselves if they sell eBooks on the iPhone? It has all the advantages over the Kindle! Smaller, Higher capacity, colour display, larger market, etc.

Ams.


Nope.

I have no desire to read a book on an iPhone. Screen is just too small. I'm sure there are many who feel that way.

No matter how great the iPhone is, there are many who will never buy a $300 phone that comes with a minimum $70 monthly bill for 2 years. While the Kindle may be expensive, it's a one time cost.
 
really, once you can buy premium book content on your iPhone, then the kindle becomes pointless. It's a specialty device whose functionality will be absorbed by smartphones.

The trick is getting that premium content accessible on the iPhone.

arn

That's debatable. As others have pointed out (better than I could), yes, the Kindle is a niche product, and Amazon is banking on that niche being large enough to make some money. In our home we have a Kindle. We have an iPod touch. I love them both, both the touch is no Kindle. It might fill a subset of the niche, but not the whole niche itself.

I think the price is the biggest obstacle. The economy and the buying power of the niche they're after might bring down the Kindle, but it won't be the iPhone/iPod touch.

Nope.

I have no desire to read a book on an iPhone. Screen is just too small. I'm sure there are many who feel that way.


There's really no comparison. They're both lovely products for what they're designed for. But say either could fill the other's role is just wrong. I could see Kindle content being nice on an iPhone for waiting rooms, killing a little time here and there, but the aforementioned shortcomings make it impossible to really get into and enjoy a book.
 
I just don't get it (why ppl like Kindle)

I think that Steve Jobs is probably right about this. I would think that only the most avid of readers would fork over ~$350 for a Kindle. For that much money you could buy a netbook, a new Dell PC, or almost two iPhones.

I think it would be a great idea for Amazon to sell ebooks on the iPhone. It would be the way to capture incremental revenue from people who would never buy a Kindle because they don't read that much. I'll buy their ebook for < $20 as long as I don't have to buy a $350 device to read it. It's true that the current selection of ebooks on the iPhone sucks...Amazon could take advantage of that (and at the same time fix that problem). Right now if I want to read a best seller on my iPhone I just buy the audiobook.

Personally I think one of the bigger mistakes that Apple made in recent years was by not buying Audible.com. Amazon snatched it up for $300mil and now Apple is dependent on Amazon for all audiobooks on the iTunes store.
 
I just finished reading a large fiction novel on my iphone using stanza and it was brilliant. No issues with the screen size whatsoever.
I guess it really doesn't bother some people, but this is beyond me, and I've had a similarly-sized Psion Series 3a (still the nicest screen and keyboard of any palmtop I've ever used) since about 1993. It's not just that two full pages mean I don't have to use my hands so often, but that my head takes in information better with more context in a fixed layout and sometimes I like to re-read the previous paragraph or whatever.

When I'm reading maths, which is more often than not, the lack of context would make such a small screen intolerable, but I accept that it may be more acceptable for fiction read sequentially.

I customized the colors so it was yellow/green on black which is easier on my eyes.
Do you find it's as easy on your eyes as paper? I'm the type of person who turns his display brightness to the minimum comfortable for reading, so I'll end up changing it two or three times per day as the daylight changes. But for books I prefer moderate sunlight or a good amount of rear light for technical work - the clearer the contrast the better I take in information - and a dimmer light for fiction. Maybe I'm just odd :D.
 
There's still nothing like being able to flip through and see all the text, or get to pages by sight.

Agreed. I'm building my own library of books and nothing like reading and the sheer pleasure of sipping coffee and turning the page.

:rolleyes: I always have to laugh when I read comments like this. You guys remind me of vinyl afficionados talking about the pleasure of dropping the needle.. there may always be that niche but as the convenience of and familiarity with digital technology speads, your numbers will continue to dwindle. And for good reason!

Flipping through pages is slower, more error prone (easy to miss something while it's flipping by, especially if it's closer to the spine than the edge of the book) and less convenient than a simple Spotlight-like search. And perhaps the e-ink tech is too limited for this (for the moment), but surely a scrollable list of page thumbnails or actual full size pages, can be just as good for getting to a page by sight? It's easy enough to do with a PDF on a desktop.

..and reading in the bath? How do you avoid getting the pages all soggy? Gloves?
 
really, once you can buy premium book content on your iPhone, then the kindle becomes pointless. It's a specialty device whose functionality will be absorbed by smartphones.

The trick is getting that premium content accessible on the iPhone.

arn

I disagree completely Arn ... I love my iPhone, more so than my first generation Kindle, but there's no comparison between reading on an electronic ink based device and a standard screen. I'm reading Proust on my Kindle right now ... there's no way in hell I'd read a 30 page document on iPhone, never mind a 3000 page book.
 
Worst part about the kindle for me is the fact that it relies on Sprint's 3G coverage to deliver content. My wife would love one of these, but unfortunately, we live in an area where Sprint coverage is poor.

Is it that hard to add wi-fi to this? or do they have some agreement with Sprint that would prevent it?

Yes it is that hard to add wifi to it. That would mean adding a second antenna and making the device LARGER.
 
If I want a book, can I not just download it onto my iphone to read it? C'mon, to me that's pretty much a useless gadget; especially once the flexible oled screens hit the market. So something like the iphone makes the functionality of the kindle obsolete already and something like a flexible oled screen puts its design to shame, hence I give the kindle another two years to dwindle. :cool::apple:

The group that designs e-ink displays is working on both color AND a smaller flexible display.

E-ink is much better than LED and oled. Have you even seen one?
 
Tons of ebook Content for the iPhone!

The main issue with these free iPhone readers, however, has been the lack of premium content (new releases) that is found on the Kindle. In the future, there may be more synergy between the technolgies as Amazon also announced last week that they would be working to make Kindle books available "on a range of mobile phones", leading some to believe that the iPhone could someday gain access to Amazon's digital library.

I disagree with this last paragraph. The eReader is a free app that can download purchased ebooks from www.ereader.com, one of the largest ebook website out there. There, you can buy newspapers, magazines, textbooks, novels, etc. So there's plenty of content for these iPhone readers. The eReader is one of favorite app I've downloaded for my iPhone. It gets used daily.
 
1. Easy to read - I'm not staring at/near a light source, just reflected light;

2. A physical size appropriate to the material - there's an art to page layout, and a technical text is not a fiction paperback;

3. Can have 2, sometimes 3, pages open at once without the need to resize;

4. Can annotate with a comfortable, soft pencil;

5. Original text and annotations at a fantastic resolution;

6. Can be taken into the bathroom - how I love to read in the bath;

7. If lost or damaged, most don't cost the earth to replace;

8. Heuristic "I saw it on or around that page" search algorithms quicker by flipping through pages rather than typing in page numbers then clicking forward/back;

9. Allows wider overview or review of book or chapter through more aggressive page-flipping, with semi-conscious memory reinforcement;

10. Can lend book for an hour or so to friend in class / on train / at work without giving them short tutorial on how to use book;

11. Finding a book on a well-organised bookshelf is quicker than locating and opening an e-book, as well as allowing the eye to take in a huge list of related books with cues on size/shape/etc to help identify and remember them;

12. Indeed, recollection from a physical book seems easier as information can be associated with a particular page and its nuances: the physical layout, the weight of each side of the book, the angle at which you held it, how easy the page was to open, perhaps a slight change in ink tone, a blemish...

13. A good index is almost always sufficient, and the act of scanning through the index helps either jog memory or provide related words (as better electronic search engines are learning to emulate).

If reading on a Kindle is bad, then reading on an iPhone is like squinting at a text through the keyhole of a prison door - sure, the information is there, and to some people that's good enough, but what inefficiency, sterility, and strain on the eyes!


And let's not forget:

14: When you hear, "The aircraft's door has been shut; please turn off all electronics...", you don't have to do anything but keep reading. Ditto for "In preparation for landing...", which means that you're spared from having to read that in-flight catalog yet again. Afterall, that's basic reason why you're carrying a book on the flight in the first place!

15: After you've finished reading your book, you can sell it used, give it to a friend, or donate it to your local library...all without any difficulty or possible hassles of the piracy police chasing after you.

16. Versus ($360 + $9/book), one can read roughly 72 books at $15 each and still be financially ahead of the game: at a rate of 2 books/month, that's a period of 3 years, at no time which you've had to worry about progressively shorter reading periods due to your non-existing battery getting worn out...or the additional maintenance costs of keeping an e-device running.

17. Of course, if you resell your used books, one can even read just-released hardbacks at the same 3 year ROI...or you can read an infinite number of mainstream paperbacks. Given that 'new' hardbacks get discounted fairly quickly and that there's a billion older books out there that we haven't read yet, it doesn't take that long to get 6-12 months behind on one's reading, at which point the idea of a $25 hardback no longer exists: simply put it on your shopping list to pick up in 6 months and it will be cheap.

18. If it gets wet in the rain, it can be dried out and recovered; zero cost. Can be done while away from home with no special equipment required.

19. If its not really a very good book, it can be recycled in (6), or used to start a fire.

20. Its illustrations can even be in color!


FWIW, I don't expect that the eBook will be "never", but simply that the Kindle still is more gimmick than a compelling and viable contender for the segments of 'recreational readers' that it is being marketed to. An eBook format is a good idea to replace an encyclopaedica reference (mechanic's repair manuals, etc), but for the application where one generally only carries one (/few) book at a time, all it really does is reduce the physical volume that books occupy back at home, either on shelves in the home library, or in boxes in the attic.

Personally, I already have a hunch as to just where a big adoption breakthrough is going to be: its not going to be in mainstream fiction, but in those low volume $100+ hardbacks that many of us bought for four years. The technology question is how to get the yellow highlighter marks off the display screen.



-hh
 
I have a Kindle and a iphone. The iphone can be used as a reader but is not...Kindle is a reader. There is no comparison. If you read, and I read a book weekly, a reader is the way to go. The e-ink is great, the battery last days and not hours. The difference between the Kindle1 and the newer version is that I can swap out my battery but the newer version got it's idea from Apple and is fixed. The reader is thinner and last longer between charges but you can not open it up and change to a new battery (you can but it takes skill and will prob screw your warranty). The design is better than the first but it isn't what you call a beauty. Books are heavy, they take up a lot of space. I love having hundreds at my fingertips, let alone my USToday and Newsweek. When ever I want. I have never had a problem with Wispernet and it is additive, like buying digital music or movies.

I believe ebooks will become very common place, in a couple of years. Remember MP players were not an instant hit.
 
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