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Amazon Working on Echo Successor to Rival Apple's HomePod
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I’m suppose that’s possible with poor media reporting. But Apple’s pitch at WWDC was a great sounding speaker and pretty much all about music. The pitch focused very little on Siri queries (outside of music).
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Or perhaps they’re not as popular as the media wants us to believe. You wouldn’t discount a product that’s selling really well. Also discounting could get people to wait thinking a new model is around the corner.
I must say, it'll certainly be easier to give Echo better sound than to make Siri a better helper.
Here's one of a thousand examples, screen shot from yesterday. Why do I even bother anymore?
Siri = Total Crap
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
As soon as HomePod hit, it seemed obvious that the competitors in this space faced certain challenges.
For Apple, the biggest challenge appeared to be to evolve Siri to be as good as or better than Alexa in all functions that Alexa does with one of these products.
For Amazon, the biggest challenge was updating the quality of the speaker to be as good or better than the (apparent superior) speaker quality in HomePod.
Now ponder this: which challenge seems easiest to realize?
In other words, how relatively difficult will it be for Apple to rapidly evolve Siri to be better than Alexa to help justify the HomePod price vs. how hard will it be for Amazon to change the speaker? And note the latter could change the speaker and charge upwards of double+ their (oft-run sale) price and still be priced substantially lower than HomePod.
The magic in Apple being able to command an Apple premium is always in the software, not the hardware. In this case, I foresee Amazon being able to match+ the quality of sound of HomePod AND significantly undercut HomePod's price... or even spin 2+ Alexa 2s/Pros for the price of 1 HomePod.
This is akin to the long-term idea of an Apple Television. We all know Apple would have sourced the panel from Samsung, LG or similar. And those suppliers would probably put the exact same panel in their own-branded "case" priced without Apple's margin. Nobody could make an argument that the Apple-branded version of that TV had a superior picture because the panel would be the exact same panel. So what might justify the Apple markup? (Maybe) the unique software that would be exclusively available in the Apple version?
So back to topic. If one buys the above, it seems the challenge for Apple is to make Siri superior to Alexa in how it is used with this kind of product. Else, Amazon, Google, etc are all well capable of assembling the same or better hardware and pricing it lower than Apple. And if Amazon, Google, etc software is generally deemed superior, HomePod is going to be challenged to win over the non-fanatic masses.
That's no Apple attack or putdown- just basically pointing out that it appears Apple is trying to rationalize the Apple price on a hardware advantage (that is not yet objectively verified in the field). Yet Apple traditionally "wins" support for Apple pricing with superior (and exclusive) software. Putting a better speaker into this kind of product is probably as tough as putting better speakers in place of the factory ones in our cars. IMO, the challenge for Apple to "win" at about triple the (oft-sale) pricing of competitors is in making Siri leap well ahead of the next generation Siri's owned by the competition. If they don't do that, then it seems it's a match of who will sell comparable hardware for less... a game that Apple seems to be unable to ever win because Apple loves it's fat margins. Amazon, Google, etc tend to trade margin for share... just as PCs did vs. the technically-superior Macs long ago.
For Apple, the biggest challenge appeared to be to evolve Siri to be as good as or better than Alexa in all functions that Alexa does with one of these products.
For Amazon, the biggest challenge was updating the quality of the speaker to be as good or better than the (apparent superior) speaker quality in HomePod.
Now ponder this: which challenge seems easiest to realize?
In other words, how relatively difficult will it be for Apple to rapidly evolve Siri to be better than Alexa to help justify the HomePod price vs. how hard will it be for Amazon to change the speaker? And note the latter could change the speaker and charge upwards of double+ their (oft-run sale) price and still be priced substantially lower than HomePod.
The magic in Apple being able to command an Apple premium is always in the software, not the hardware. In this case, I foresee Amazon being able to match+ the quality of sound of HomePod AND significantly undercut HomePod's price... or even spin 2+ Alexa 2s/Pros for the price of 1 HomePod.
This is akin to the long-term idea of an Apple Television. We all know Apple would have sourced the panel from Samsung, LG or similar. And those suppliers would probably put the exact same panel in their own-branded "case" priced without Apple's margin. Nobody could make an argument that the Apple-branded version of that TV had a superior picture because the panel would be the exact same panel. So what might justify the Apple markup? (Maybe) the unique software that would be exclusively available in the Apple version?
So back to topic. If one buys the above, it seems the challenge for Apple is to make Siri superior to Alexa in how it is used with this kind of product. Else, Amazon, Google, etc are all well capable of assembling the same or better hardware and pricing it lower than Apple. And if Amazon, Google, etc software is generally deemed superior, HomePod is going to be challenged to win over the non-fanatic masses.
That's no Apple attack or putdown- just basically pointing out that it appears Apple is trying to rationalize the Apple price on a hardware advantage (that is not yet objectively verified in the field). Yet Apple traditionally "wins" support for Apple pricing with superior (and exclusive) software. Putting a better speaker into this kind of product is probably as tough as putting better speakers in place of the factory ones in our cars. IMO, the challenge for Apple to "win" at about triple the (oft-sale) pricing of competitors is in making Siri leap well ahead of the next generation Siri's owned by the competition. If they don't do that, then it seems it's a match of who will sell comparable hardware for less... a game that Apple seems to be unable to ever win because Apple loves it's fat margins. Amazon, Google, etc tend to trade margin for share... just as PCs did vs. the technically-superior Macs long ago.
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I must say, it'll certainly be easier to give Echo better sound than to make Siri a better helper.
Here's one of a thousand examples, screen shot from yesterday. Why do I even bother anymore?
Of course you can get the Amazon Dot which has an Audio jack and plug it into your expensive stereo and you have the best of both worlds. High quality Audio and a better assistant.
Discounting is common practice when a replacement tech product is imminent, as I'm sure you're aware.
As for popularity, without taking the time to research this properly and just replying from my own (albeit limited) observations of friends and family, I know many people who own an Echo.
Where the market penetration may have been particularly impressive is that most of these owners are not "tech geeks" and I'd imagine would've been attracted by the extreme ease of use that Echo offers.
Also all of the owners I know, love them.
Mad Mac Maniac
macrumors 601
I agree. I bought a refurbished echo and echo dot (for $90 and 30, respectively) when they were on sale a few days before prime day (so I could use some of Alexa's exclusive deals for prime day). I'm surprised how much I love it. Sound on the Echo is more the sufficient for me (a non-audiofile) and honestly even the echo dot is sufficient sound for a bedroom. I already have prime music (and just paid the $.99 for 4 months). It really does about everything I need for it. I got a second dot on prime day so now I have an echo and 2 dots, which sufficiently covers my home for $145.
Surely this article was written in a parallel universe. HomePod won't be out for months and is 2x more expensive than Echo. The only thing HomePod has going for vs. Echo is security -- no minor thing and why I adopted HomeKit not Echo. But HomePod is still wildly too expensive even for an Apple product. It's also too narrowly focused. The way it's priced it's only suitable for people that live in a one room apartment or have a grove of money trees in the garden of their multi-room estate.
But, of course Amazon is looking to improve it's products. It does so every year like most companies. I don't think it's in reaction to HomePod. Wishful thinking.
How do you have the old fashioned signal bars (next to AT&T)? Ever since an iOS update a few years ago — iOS 7, maybe? — I've had 5 dots instead of the traditional bars.
Attachments
Ease of use, that is what used to be Apple's "halo effect". Yes, I am looking at you Apple Music. In any case the Amazon Echo is now just so simple, and affordable, plus Prime benefits. I picked up an Echo Dot to compliment my Echo, and while I was at it also a Fire Tablet. Halo effect!
An upgraded Echo would be welcomed, I do enjoy they look of the Google Home, because well... it has a warm "home" feeling to it.
An upgraded Echo would be welcomed, I do enjoy they look of the Google Home, because well... it has a warm "home" feeling to it.
Siri can't compare to Alexa, at all. What good is the sound quality of the speaker if it doesn't do what you want? Most of the people I know have a Dot they link to their pre-existing high end audio systems anyway. Where exactly is the market of people who would spend $350 on a smart speaker that don't already have such a system?
On the other hand my 70 year old mom has an Echo and loves it. She would never buy a HomePod. So there's another market demograhic that isn't going to go Apple on this.
On the other hand my 70 year old mom has an Echo and loves it. She would never buy a HomePod. So there's another market demograhic that isn't going to go Apple on this.
iOS 11 beta -- they're coming back (probably to fit better in the "shoulder" area of the rumored iPhone 8 design).
iOS 11 has returned to traditional bars...
****edit- got beaten to it several times!!
I bought an echo dot on prime day for just this reason ... I have 4x Sonos speakers spread around my house
I think you are 90% correct, but there are some features similar to Echo and Alexis, from the descriptions of features of what the Homepod is supposed to be able to do, such as smart home control, answering general spoken questions and the like.
I think a bigger problem is that the HomePod is feature-wise in between Echo and Sonos without a good reason to chose it over its competitors. It reportedly has better sound quality than Echo/Alexis but it's a lot more expensive, and so far Apples ability to accurately get results from voice commands isn't stellar. It might be equal to a Sonos 3 or 5 speaker but it can't be used as a surround sound system in a home entertainment setup the way Sonos can.
I realize that Apple promises to keep your personal data encrypted and not data mine or allow access by businesses or governments to that data, but honestly most people don't care if they are being tracked unless it visibly and immediately impacts them. And using that data makes their searches more accurate.
I doubt apple makes the home pod if amazon had not made the echo. This is a direct competitor to the echo.
I love how Apple enters a product category and raises the bar 10 levels, then other companies have to try to catch up (and sometimes surpass). Without Apple we'd only have clumsy, unrefined devices (though we'd probably be ignorantly blissful), and without competition we would never be able to afford these better products.
Granted Apple falls short sometimes (Siri).
Granted Apple falls short sometimes (Siri).
Just because he bought one "2 days ago" doesn't mean he's never been exposed to one before he bought it for himself. SMH
I'm surprised people in this thread think Alexa is a better assistant than Siri. I've got multiple Echo's around the house because they're cheap and cheerful and can do basic stuff quite well - but it's doesn't understand natural speech like Siri. You can ask Siri to turn my Hue lights on in multiple ways - you have to ask Alexa in one very specific way - and it's like that across the board.
While Alexa can do more on the whole - it feels more like talking to basic speech recognition which triggers actions based on it hearing you say very specific phrases.
I'll likely buy two Homepods on release to see what the stereo sound is like and how well they go into using no power during standby by leap into action during use - if only I could use them as left and right channels in a home cinema setup i'd be more excited - maybe an Airplay 2 enabled AV receiver could do that. If the sound doesn't blow me away i'll send them back (and i'm expecting it won't...i'm expecting it to be terrible boxy, boomy, noisy, sound like Bose/HK/B&W and all that other crap, rather than neutral, detailed, clear sound like Adam)
I'll still keep the Echo Dot's in the other rooms though.
While Alexa can do more on the whole - it feels more like talking to basic speech recognition which triggers actions based on it hearing you say very specific phrases.
I'll likely buy two Homepods on release to see what the stereo sound is like and how well they go into using no power during standby by leap into action during use - if only I could use them as left and right channels in a home cinema setup i'd be more excited - maybe an Airplay 2 enabled AV receiver could do that. If the sound doesn't blow me away i'll send them back (and i'm expecting it won't...i'm expecting it to be terrible boxy, boomy, noisy, sound like Bose/HK/B&W and all that other crap, rather than neutral, detailed, clear sound like Adam)
I'll still keep the Echo Dot's in the other rooms though.
£350 is a lot of money to pay for a device that only streams Apple music. If Amazon release a upmarket product with improved sound quality then it will beat Apple hands down through total functionality. It will force HomePod to compete with Amazon.
Apple needs to get smart about this and ensure that 5 months investment leading up to December is focused on revamping Siri and connecting to iTunes.
Apple needs to get smart about this and ensure that 5 months investment leading up to December is focused on revamping Siri and connecting to iTunes.
Well yes and No it doesn't play Apple Music but the Apple doesn't play Spotify! The Amazon Dot and Who sound ok haven't heard the Apple home but I've been hearing very good things about the sound quality from it . That's where the difference in pricing comes in if your into quality sounding music or a poor slightly better than average your choice
Apple HomePod isn't even out, so anything is better.
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So Siri only understands if you ask questions in a very specific way. Useless.
Not at all 'massive'. But obviously a lot of key companies think it has potential