AMD Kaveri For Apple Macbooks Petition!

[camtech]

AMD has developed their most powerful APU (CPU plus Hawaii class GPU) called Kaveri and it is designed for multiple form factors: from 15w to 35w notebooks, 35w/45w/65w HTPC/ITX desktops, all-in-ones to high power PCs and servers.

Overclock.net has a thread in the hardware section called AMD Tech Day Kaveri Presentation that covers what AMD is showing at CES 2014 in Las Vegas today.

Anyone that wants a new Apple Macbook that is both powerful, with Sony PS4 AMD APU game console quality audio video and runs cooler and quieter than Intel Haswell, and will likely be much more affordable than Intel-based designs, then you will want an Apple Macbook with AMD Kaveri technology!

http://www.overclock.net/t/1456706/purepc-pl-amd-kaveri-tech-day-relacja-na-ywo-z-las-vegas

 

[Hellhammer]

AMD may have an advantage in the GPU department but they are years behind in terms of CPU IPC. In other words, gaming performance would likely improve a little but anything CPU intensive would get downgraded. As for AMD running "cooler and more silent", that's just BS. It's all up to the thermal design and AMD's chips don't have lower TDPs.

 

[jav6454]

AMD may have an advantage in the GPU department but they are years behind in terms of CPU IPC. In other words, gaming performance would likely improve a little but anything CPU intensive would get downgraded. As for AMD running "cooler and more silent", that's just BS. It's all up to the thermal design and AMD's chips don't have lower TDPs.

This exactly. The problem with AMD mobile CPUs is that they are always running hot.

GPU wise, AMD got a big push due to their ATI purchase, nothing else. Also, all those CPU performance gains we've gotten thanks to Intel's architecture would go away.

 

[wgr73]

I think Apple knows what it's doing

 

[edddeduck]

AMD has developed their most powerful APU (CPU plus Hawaii class GPU) called Kaveri and it is designed for multiple form factors: from 15w to 35w notebooks, 35w/45w/65w HTPC/ITX desktops, all-in-ones to high power PCs and servers.

According to the slide it seems they are saying it 30% faster than the previous generation of the integrated cards by AMD.

3D Mark tests

Fastest "Richland" AMD Radeon HD 8650G - 3D Mark - 5699
Richland + 30% would be around 3D Mark 7408
Intel Iris (aka Intel 5200) - 3D Mark - 13123

Important to note their is a massive difference between HD5000/HD5100 and the HD5200 Iris when it comes to performance.

Now those figures are only from one (pretty reputable) site, but even if the AMD figure is a little low it doesn't look like the new AMD cards will blow the doors off what Intel are already offering. I suspect the AMD figure might be a little low but it's doesn't indicate that the Intel Iris will be massively beaten on performance.

The Iris in the same range as PS4/360 albeit a little slower, if it was a massive leap I think it would be more likely but as it is most likely a few percent points the effort might not be worth it.

Lets see when users get their hands on it and see the performance for themselves.

Edwin

 

[Acorn]

amd creating cool cpus? when did this happen...thanks but no thanks. i will stick to intel.

 

[maflynn]

I think it will be a poor move by apple if they went the AMD route. I think of budget PCs when I see AMD as the chipset.

 

[edddeduck]

I think it will be a poor move by apple if they went the AMD route. I think of budget PCs when I see AMD as the chipset.

I think Apple care about performance and energy usage if these are much better than Intel I am sure Apple will look at using them but it doesn't look like they are better than the Intel CPU series. In fact from a quick look it looks like these have helps AMD catch up but Intel are still leading.

We will see having competition is always good for development progress

Edwin

 

[SilvioM]

OS X is not written to run on AMD CPUs. If Apple would ever use AMD CPUs (I pray they never do) they would have to rewrite the OS

 

[edddeduck]

OS X is not written to run on AMD CPUs. If Apple would ever use AMD CPUs (I pray they never do) they would have to rewrite the OS

You're actually incorrect Apple would not need to do very much at all, perhaps a few AMD optimisations to replace Intel specific optimisations for performance reasons but they are not needed. AMD uses the same instruction set x86-64 as Intel you can boot OS X on AMD CPUs (Hackintosh) right now without any major issues just like Intel based Hackintoshes.

Here is a (Russian) YouTube video of someone with an AMD CPU Hackintosh as an example.

Edwin

 

[leman]

From what I see, Iris Pro beats the Richland IGPs in all graphics tests: http://techreport.com/review/24954/amd-a10-6800k-and-a10-6700-richland-apus-reviewed/4

Note, this is Intel's mobile CPU/GPU vs. a top-end AMD CPU/GPU! So 30% increase in GPU performance puts Kaveri at Intel's level. Not very impressive.

OS X is not written to run on AMD CPUs. If Apple would ever use AMD CPUs (I pray they never do) they would have to rewrite the OS

You overestimate the work necessary for that. Look here for OS X kernels working on AMD:

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Patched_Kernels#OS_X_10.9_Mavericks

 

[old-wiz]

OS X is not written to run on AMD CPUs. If Apple would ever use AMD CPUs (I pray they never do) they would have to rewrite the OS

Nope. the AMD CPUs are not that different. I would not be surprised if somewhere hidden within Apple there are Macs running various AMD processors. ** EDIT ** seems like there are already versions out there. AMD started with the x86-intel instruction sets

These days the compilers are quite good and handle a lot of the hardware differences. Only the lowest kernel levels have to pay much attention to the hardware.

Before I retired I worked on OS internals for a hardware mfgr and we had to handle some migrations and sometimes it was a pain, but the pain was mostly to us poor people having to deal with talking directly to the HW chipset. Still the compilers did most of the work.

 

[camtech]

Next Gen Gaming/Entertainment Based On AMD Architecture

This exactly. The problem with AMD mobile CPUs is that they are always running hot.

GPU wise, AMD got a big push due to their ATI purchase, nothing else. Also, all those CPU performance gains we've gotten thanks to Intel's architecture would go away.

That is not true for the new APUs. AMD's new mobile APUs in the 4w to 15w range called Mullins and Beema (evolved from Kabini and based on Jaguar micro core architecture) are based on 28nm chips manufactured by TSMC and are designed to run extremely cool and efficiently.

Both Sony and Microsoft chose AMD's Jaguar and graphics called GCN because the price and performance were exceptional.

At CES 2014 today, Sony announced they sold over 4.2 million next generation PS4 consoles which adds to the Microsoft Xbox One sales of over 3 million, for a total of over 7.2 million game/entertainment consoles by the end of 2013. (Now that China has lifted the ban on gaming consoles, there are millions of more users that will boost sales of AMD based systems in 2014.)

What this means is that much of the next generation gaming/entertainment software will be optimized first for AMD APU systems and users who have Intel based systems will likely have sub par performance for many more years.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...nits-in-2013-beating-the-xbox-one-comfortably

 

[camtech]

From what I see, Iris Pro beats the Richland IGPs in all graphics tests: http://techreport.com/review/24954/amd-a10-6800k-and-a10-6700-richland-apus-reviewed/4

Note, this is Intel's mobile CPU/GPU vs. a top-end AMD CPU/GPU! So 30% increase in GPU performance puts Kaveri at Intel's level. Not very impressive.

[/url]

The Intel Iris Pro models have expensive video memory and are all priced around $300-$450+ which is about double the price of AMD APUs, so I hope their performance beats the last generation IGPs.

With AMD Kaveri you have a versatile design that not only has powerful graphics, but a powerful GPU compute engine and audio co-processor called TrueAudio that can be utilized in applications like Adobe OpenCL acceleration, audio / video transcoding, 3D rendering, voice recognition / commands, music synthesis, etc.

The new HSA architecture of the AMD Kaveri simply outclasses similar priced Intel based APUs.

 

[edddeduck]

What this means is that much of the next generation gaming/entertainment software will be optimized first for AMD APU systems and users who have Intel based systems will likely have sub par performance for many more years.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...nits-in-2013-beating-the-xbox-one-comfortably

It's doesn't really, the chips in the 360 and the PS4 might be AMD but they use the same instruction set as Intel, additionally the programming layers on top of the hardware are different between the two consoles and Mac/PC machines. The software layers are more important than any minor vendor difference at the hardware level.

Given the speed the CPU/GPU performance progresses plus the fact Intel CPUs are faster on the high end already I doubt we will see any major performance deltas on Mac/PC due to the consoles using AMD CPUs.

The XBOX 360 used PPC (Similar to a G5 dual core) and the PS3 used a custom PPC chipset with a similar based execution set called Cell. I didn't see a massive sub par performance on Intel PCs compared to PPC Macs. In fact as Windows had a better software layer the performance was in fact better on Intel than PPC. As the instructions sets are the same in this case the chances of a delta will be even less likely IMHO.

If your theory is correct then PS4/Xbox One games that are also on PC will run faster on AMD CPU/GPU hardware which so far I don't think is happening.

I am completely happy to admit I am wrong in 12 months time but my gut is AMD CPUs in consoles will not effect Intel gaming performance at all.

Edwin

 

[gnasher729]

OS X is not written to run on AMD CPUs. If Apple would ever use AMD CPUs (I pray they never do) they would have to rewrite the OS

That's nonsense. That's such a big nonsense, how could you ever post this.

I'm quite sure there are Hackintoshes out there using AMD CPUs. I would bet that Apple has built a few prototypes with AMD CPUs (it would be criminally negligible not to check out what Intel's competition does). And the amount of code that needs to be written for a different processor is quite minimal.

 

[maflynn]

I think Apple care about performance and energy usage if these are much better than Intel I am sure Apple will look at using them but it doesn't look like they are better than the Intel CPU series. In fact from a quick look it looks like these have helps AMD catch up but Intel are still leading.

We will see having competition is always good for development progress

Edwin

My opinion is that a move to AMD is a backwards move, in both perception from the consumers and overall stability.

I remember the days when Motorola and IBM were unable to produce improvements to CPUs back in the PPC days. Like it or not, moving away from intel will only have a negative perception.

 

[edddeduck]

My opinion is that a move to AMD is a backwards move, in both perception from the consumers and overall stability.

.....

Like it or not, moving away from intel will only have a negative perception.

That depends as I said if AMD is faster and lower power then Apple will move as it will be faster and have better battery life. Perception is easy to defeat if you have a much better product, if a new AMD MacBookPro has faster performance and better battery negative perception will cease to exist (and it would only exist among some tech people not your average user).

Negative perception and stability issues care caused by fake promises / marketing if AMD do have a CPU that is demonstrably faster and uses less power then I think Apple would be extremely foolish to not look at using them. I see no point in ignoring a better solution because people think it might be slower as that is the easiest thing to prove in benchmarking. That said this CPU/GPU combo above doesn't seem to be faster than Intel so for this generation I don't think AMD will be used but it could happen down the line if AMD overtake Intel.

Apple don't have stickers on their machines so you would never know (and most users won't care) what is under the hood. They will judge it on how well it runs and how long the battery lasts.

Edwin

 

[Dustman]

I'd love to see some AMD APUs show up in Apple products... But, not the Macbook Air. That would be a horrible choice.

An AMD Mac Mini however would be great for the base config, and 'upgrade' to intel on the higher end Minis. I'd actually buy a Mac Mini in a second if they did this, as I love me a great iGPU.

The current AMD Mobile A10 chip is pretty decent when you include it's GPU capabilities. Although for it being AMD's highest end mobile chip, CPU-wise it sits between an i3 and i5.

AMD has a place in the world. $500-$700 laptops (not ultrabooks) and small/mid form factor PCs, as well as game consoles where power efficiency isn't a huge concern.

 

[fteoath64]

I'd love to see some AMD APUs show up in Apple products... But, not the Macbook Air. That would be a horrible choice.

An AMD Mac Mini however would be great for the base config, and 'upgrade' to intel on the higher end Minis. I'd actually buy a Mac Mini in a second if they did this, as I love me a great iGPU.

Totally agree with Mac Mini going Kaveri. Heck, it can diversify the range and also jump to smaller 20inch iMac/Kaveri with 2K displays. It is important for Apple to diversify becuase they are a big company and need to cover for more segments of the customer base to grow. Limiting model choices also limits the market size as "pissed customers" tend to jump to the competition in a heartbeat or decide to build their own machines with Linux.

 

[thebrobrah]

amd + thin form factor = loud fan when doing the simplest things

 

[kage207]

Totally agree with Mac Mini going Kaveri. Heck, it can diversify the range and also jump to smaller 20inch iMac/Kaveri with 2K displays. It is important for Apple to diversify becuase they are a big company and need to cover for more segments of the customer base to grow. Limiting model choices also limits the market size as "pissed customers" tend to jump to the competition in a heartbeat or decide to build their own machines with Linux.

You know Apple doesn't care if it pisses people off? Also if you listen to the mindset of the management is that they believe in a limited number of products (not just number but same product variation) for a reason. This style of thinking is due to the growth in customer base. Yes, you limit market size but they want the ones with more money.

I personally think Apple should stick with Intel because they are finally getting it together when it comes to power management. I'm not impressed with AMD as of lately. Now, the graphic cards? Yes, great job.

I'd love Intel to buy Nvidia. It'd make their iGPU much better. Though as with anything, it will come with time. I say it will pick up by Intel as soon as we have 3D CPUs as the other cores may be used for iGPUs or more dynamic depending on the usage.

 

[fteoath64]

You know Apple doesn't care if it pisses people off? .

I know and I can see karma coming back full circle on the Appstore Mediator dispute that Apple filed to the DOJ. DOJ said "sour grapes" you abide by the mediator and do your job!. Next time Apple complains on this issue, DOJ should slap a $5M file and do so each time!.

 

[JFreak]

I had to blink my eyes a few times; "kaveri" is a finnish word for "buddy"

 

[Hellhammer]

I had to blink my eyes a few times; "kaveri" is a finnish word for "buddy"

The origin of the name is the Kaveri river in India, though