Android Smartphones Expected to Follow iPhone With Ultra Wideband Technology Starting Later This Year

[Pupi]

1)Most cars have had alternative to physical keys for at least 30 years. Keyfobs have been extremely popular for past 15 years. Back in the 80s there were several American cars that used keycodes on the door handle.

2)I'm not against technology. But my iPhone/Watch can get lost, stolen, fogotten, etc. too! It can also get corrupted. Apps can (and as I provided with my banking apps) and WILL stop working until you upgrade the app. Oh, don't forget to upgrade iOS (which will very likely force you to upgrade some other apps as well as change/break something else) so the new app can be downloaded in the first place. Don't forget to register your car/id/home address/email/phone/license plate/etc for "safety" in case there's ever a problem and/or you need technical support. Do think maybe...just maybe...it would be somehow beneficial to the app creator (or Apple) to know that you live in zip code 06498 and drive a 2019 BMW 5-class automobile and usually unlock your car every weekday at 8:15am, lock it at 8:55am, unlock it again at 5:05pm, and lock it again at 6:15pm? And then you wonder why your phone magically rings at 6:20pm every night trying to sell you 3rd party car insurance as you barely got your coat off and hugged the kids?

3)You really want to throw in the "increases safety" line? Really? Every company in the USA has used that line for decades whether they are selling me technology or flowers. Seriously. And each and every time I ask them "how?" and far often they can't explain it. Ask your bank the next time how their policy against you depositing money into your son's account is increasing safety. They have no answer, yet they loudly promote it.


My point is that the iPhone (or whatever comes next) is trying to be the central hub for 100% of everything you do/touch in your physical life. This may not be directly responsible by Apple, but the quest is there to do it. The problem with this general "hub" is that it has so, So, SO many dependencies (some of which I listed) and in addition to the dependencies come opportunities for things to fail.

The keyfob that came with my car (and yes I have to replace that stupid battery every 16 months) works just fine thank you very much.

1-I meant keyfobs as well! Many times I scramble to find them before leaving the house. I can misplace them accidentally. I always know where my phone is, or I can just ping it.

3-your stuff is at the very least passcode protected instead of mostly available to use for anyone with physical access to the item. You lose your fob, you may lose your car. You lose your house key, you may get burgled. You lose your bank card, someone may use it before you realise and cancel it. You lose your ID, someone can use it for their benefit. You lose your phone with all those things, and in theory you may be just fine.

 

[konqerror]

I have no idea what you are getting at with those 2 examples.

The truth.

Are you trying to say that the 2 physical problems should/could be solved by some fancy software-based wireless technology rather than fire/sue the people who made the defective parts/designs? Also, you're not really trying to convince us that software, even "safety-critical software" is safer than a physical object are you? You'd rather rely on a piece of code, that requires an OS to run it, which requires electricity and is dependent on temperature, to act as a safety device instead of the metal plug?

You realize the engine already requires safety-critical software that runs every time a cylinder fires? This has been true for 4 decades, triggered due to laws in California. Additionally, you now need software to steer. This was a secondary effect due to laws passed by Obama.

All they have to do is add logic that says, if the transmission is in drive, ignore any signal to turn off the ignition unless it lasts more than 3 seconds uninterrupted.

This is easier than making a switch that lasts 20 years and has no interruption of power at all during a crash sequence.

The GM investigation also revealed that people put large number of keys on their keychains which swung in a crash. This is outside the automaker's control.

 

[jntdroid]

Just because of the comments about tech and laziness... this movie was genius (especially when he falls out around the 1 minute mark)...

 

[rpe33]

bringing ultimate laziness one step closer. Technology at its finest. It's just so hard to flip a switch or turn a key with that thing on the end of your arm called a hand

Right. Because the way we've been unlocking car doors the past 90 years is difficult. </sarcasm>

I, for one, have absolutely no need for this garbage. Others may. It's just more mishmosh and junk to manage as I constantly need to upgrade iOS and then the app...or I can't update the app without updating iOS (I've had this problem with bank apps and I stopped using them). Then the battery (on the other device) dies or needs charging. Blah blah blah.

What's next? Flush the toilet from my iPhone using the free iFlush app with ads? It's easy! Just swipe open your phone with your dirty finger, tap the iFlush app with your other dirty finger, watch the 15 second ad about 1/2 price colonoscopy screenings in your area, then choose which toilet you want to flush, then hold down the "drop" icon for 4 seconds to flush urine or hold down the "log" icon for 9 seconds to flush fecal matter. You can also spend $5.99 to rid the ads and be able to shake your iPhone 4 times for urine or 9 times for fecal.

I detest the term "ok boomer", but it really is appropriate in this situation.

 

[mannyvel]

Technology - it's not about making life easier and more convenient, it's, uh, well, hmm.

You know in my day we had to crank the handle for the electric to work. I had to go out to the barn and milk the cow to get milk. Air conditioning was opening the window when I passed gas. Don't even get me started about them grocery stores. We had to hunt, gut, and forage for our food. Heck, I remember foraging for wild potatoes in the desert. Have you ever foraged for wild potatoes? They're sneaky little critters. I tell you what.

 

[justperry]

What's next? Flush the toilet from my iPhone using the free iFlush app with ads? It's easy! Just swipe open your phone with your dirty finger, tap the iFlush app with your other dirty finger, watch the 15 second ad about 1/2 price colonoscopy screenings in your area, then choose which toilet you want to flush, then hold down the "drop" icon for 4 seconds to flush urine or hold down the "log" icon for 9 seconds to flush fecal matter. You can also spend $5.99 to rid the ads and be able to shake your iPhone 4 times for urine or 9 times for fecal.

Here you go...

As for this Ultra wide, bit scary it can locate you (with a UW device) with mere centimetres.

 

[ericinboston]

You realize the engine already requires safety-critical software that runs every time a cylinder fires? This has been true for 4 decades, triggered due to laws in California. Additionally, you now need software to steer. This was a secondary effect due to laws passed by Obama.

All they have to do is add logic that says, if the transmission is in drive, ignore any signal to turn off the ignition unless it lasts more than 3 seconds uninterrupted.

This is easier than making a switch that lasts 20 years and has no interruption of power at all during a crash sequence.

1)I'm not a gear head but of course there is some safety-critical software in cars. And I'm sure some of those software packages have some kind of contribution to the hundreds of "error codes" that come up on your dashboard and then your mechanic fairly often says it's a blip and he doesn't know why it came up and bring it back again if it fails again...oh, and that'll be $89 for the computer/service/labor/diagnosis fee. The most infamous in my memory are the oxygen sensors.

2)My CRV has a push button parking break. I don't like it at all. A)I don't trust it vs. the physical brakes that I can feel clicking into place with my foot and B)I've experienced at least 2 times in the past few months where my car magically has the parking brake enabled the next time I get in it. I'm the only driver. It is possible it has been the Automatic Parking Break feature which I never heard of until a few days ago: https://www.rensselaerhonda.com/activating-deactivating-honda-cr-v-automatic-parking-brake/ but even so, it is intermittent to me and the steps to enable/disable seem confusing. If this is the problem, then somehow I magically turned it on and then magically off later. I, the consumer, should be able to magically/accidentally enable a parking brake. The steps should be much simpler and and yet require longer input from the user. I still think it's a bug/problem since I have never touched the parking brake...let alone the 5-step sequence.

3)My wife's car's transmission is completely controlled by the arm on the steering wheel. There is a button on it to put it in Park. Because the "arm" is opposite of every Honda and American car I've driven since 1986 in that it does NOT control the wipers or squirters, I am forever paranoid that I will accidentally press the Park button when I mean to press the squirt button as I'm driving, sending the car into Park and probably destroying the entire engine. I don't think cars should have buttons for the operation of the transmission...any of my kids could easily touch/play with it and cause an accident.
[automerge]1578683210[/automerge]

Here you go...

View attachment 887879



As for this Ultra wide, bit scary it can locate you (with a UW device) with mere centimetres.

That is amazing and hysterical!!! And you have far better art skills than I!

If you want to make a change, I was looking for a log (as in a piece of wood) as the icon for the poop flush.

 

[podlasek]

Right. Because the way we've been unlocking car doors the past 90 years is difficult. </sarcasm>

I, for one, have absolutely no need for this garbage. Others may. It's just more mishmosh and junk to manage as I constantly need to upgrade iOS and then the app...or I can't update the app without updating iOS (I've had this problem with bank apps and I stopped using them). Then the battery (on the other device) dies or needs charging. Blah blah blah.

What's next? Flush the toilet from my iPhone using the free iFlush app with ads? It's easy! Just swipe open your phone with your dirty finger, tap the iFlush app with your other dirty finger, watch the 15 second ad about 1/2 price colonoscopy screenings in your area, then choose which toilet you want to flush, then hold down the "drop" icon for 4 seconds to flush urine or hold down the "log" icon for 9 seconds to flush fecal matter. You can also spend $5.99 to rid the ads and be able to shake your iPhone 4 times for urine or 9 times for fecal.

Funny, I’m going to copy your post.

However, I already start my car remotely on cold days from my watch and/or phone using an app, key fob won’t reach. Car also has keyless entry, would be nice to not have to carry the fob, especially when going fishing Or to the beach or for a run(yeah right). The keyless fobs cost a bloody fortune to replace.

As for home, how many times has someone left and forgot if they closed the garage door? Or come home late to a dark home, it’s nice to walk into a lit room rather than dark.

And yes, all of these things are ‘nice to haves’ not needs. They are all conveniences. The physical key on my fob still works, the key in my door. I can have a manual garage door with no opener, I can flick on a switch.

but it wasn’t that long ago, people said I can get up and change the channel on the tv, I can get out of my care and open the garage, etc. etc.

Just 13 short years ago, every analyst and a bunch of people said, I don’t need a smart phone, my phone is for talking and works fine.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything, just pointing out that the world moves forward, right wrong or indifferent.

 

[ericinboston]

I detest the term "ok boomer", but it really is appropriate in this situation.

I was born in 1970. Not a boomer (in the voice of Arnold Schwarzenegger). I have worked in high tech my entire life...software developer, architecture lead, network admin, building computers, etc. You may not like my dad-like crankyness today (which I admit there is) but that does not discredit me. Most see a lot of the tech stuff today as black-boxes; I know how they work from the guts up.

 

[tongxinshe]

...and people don't lose phones?

The more physical item you need to keep track of, the higher chance to forget or lose one, or multiple, of them.

 

[konqerror]

My CRV has a push button parking break. I don't like it at all. A)I don't trust it vs. the physical brakes that I can feel clicking into place with my foot and B)I've experienced at least 2 times in the past few months where my car magically has the parking brake enabled the next time I get in it.

Two reasons: 1. Obama-era regulations again. The electric parking brake system is lighter than a mechanical one, saving fuel. 2. Rollaway accidents. The intent is to electronically force parking brake activation when you get out of the car. Rollaway accidents are less prevalent in the US over Europe because we drive mainly automatics that add an extra layer of protection (park position locks, for example), but they do kill.

I am forever paranoid that I will accidentally press the Park button when I mean to press the squirt button as I'm driving, sending the car into Park and probably destroying the entire engine.

It should not. This is not a problem unique to your specific shifter: Even semi-modern traditional shifter automatic transmissions have a protection to prevent you from shifting into the reverse position above a certain speed. Either software or a physical solenoid will prevent that.

To sum, there are real engineering reasons why things are the way they are. They literally hire people with a PhD in automotive engineering. The industry isn't dumb as you assume, especially compared to IT and computing. The engineers that sign off on designs require government licensure and attract civil and criminal liability. When does that happen in the IT world?

 

[justperry]

That is amazing and hysterical!!! And you have far better art skills than I!

If you want to make a change, I was looking for a log (as in a piece of wood) as the icon for the poop flush.

Grohe Sensia App

 

[Infinite Vortex]

Here you go...

View attachment 887879



As for this Ultra wide, bit scary it can locate you (with a UW device) with mere centimetres.

Yikes… having to constantly handle your phone between finishing your business and needing to flush and the need to hand wash. 😒

 

[ericinboston]

Funny, I’m going to copy your post.

And yes, all of these things are ‘nice to haves’ not needs. They are all conveniences. The physical key on my fob still works, the key in my door. I can have a manual garage door with no opener, I can flick on a switch.

I understand your thoughts, however it's all marketing you/we have been convinced of:

However, I already start my car remotely on cold days from my watch and/or phone using an app, key fob won’t reach.

My keyfobs for the past 3 cars we've owned since 2005 reach at least 100 feet. The "old days" automatic car starters that were 3rd party would often reach 200+ feet.

Car also has keyless entry, would be nice to not have to carry the fob, especially when going fishing Or to the beach or for a run(yeah right). The keyless fobs cost a bloody fortune to replace.

You can lose anything. Me? I've never lost a key/keyfob to my car in 25+ years. And honestly, I don't know anyone who has. And even if they did, the dealership always gives you 2...sometimes 3. You'd rather carry an iPhone that weighs 20 times as much as the fob?

As for home, how many times has someone left and forgot if they closed the garage door?

Never. I open the garage, pull my car out of the garage, and push the button to close it and drive away.

Or come home late to a dark home, it’s nice to walk into a lit room rather than dark.

It's called a wall timer...been in existence for 50+ years. But even sarcasm aside, if you can't come home, unlock your door, reach around the corner and hit the light switch, you've got a problem.




The problem with this overall technology is 1)the single smartphone is aimed as a general "hub" for 100% you do in the physical world which requires all sorts of dependencies (that I described in detail earlier)...most especially electricity and 2)it's a solution to a problem that does not exist. We have keys, we have keyfobs. We have wall timers.

The term "don't keep all your eggs in 1 basket" has been around forever...and for a reason.

This concept/thread reminds me of the WTF Blanket. Look it up on Youtube.

 

[justperry]

Yikes… having to constantly handle your phone between finishing your business and needing to flush and the need to hand wash. 😒

It's (*App) optional, it comes with a remote with physical buttons and display.
*Think about it, guests don't have this App on their phones.

It's a shower toilet, you don't use your hands to flush/wipe/whatever.

 

[coolfactor]

JUST WAIT ONE MOMENT !

I thought Android phones always got features first???? What's going on? What universe are we in???

🤣 🤣

 

[ericinboston]

The industry isn't dumb as you assume...

I never assumed, inferred, implied, or claimed that 100% of the auto industry is dumb and I agree (and previously aware) with you on who they hire to create mission critical/safety critical systems. However, there are millions of examples every day across the globe of cars having some kind of software failures whether they are false negatives or bugs or poor logic/programming. Also, there are millions of examples with mechanical problems, some so bad that mass recalls occur every few years and billions of dollars are spent on fines/lawsuits/etc.

This thread is talking about the ability to unlock car doors with an iPhone. Not start a car. Not operate a car. Given the track record of various apps/services with wireless technologies on the iPhone/smartphone and their dependencies on the remote devices, I have little faith that this upcoming service will work as designed better than an 80% success rate. There will be plenty of people ranting about bad apps, bad app versions, bugs, poor wireless reception, battery life whining, etc.

I'll stick with my keyfob.

 

[manu chao]

Right. Because the way we've been unlocking car doors the past 90 years is difficult. </sarcasm>

I guess you also consider all kind of automatic (or remote-controlled) doors to be completely superfluous? When customers want to get into a store, they can please open the door themselves.

I, for one, have absolutely no need for this garbage.

Does this feeling apply to anything wireless? I mean we managed to survive the age of phone booths.

 

[podlasek]

My keyfobs for the past 3 cars we've owned since 2005 reach at least 100 feet. The "old days" automatic car starters that were 3rd party would often reach 200+ feet.

Mine do not reach near that distance, but why are you using a keyfob, following your point, did your key stop working? /s

I know what you are saying, but key fobs a a convenience as well, all you need is a key.

You can lose anything. Me? I've never lost a key/keyfob to my car in 25+ years. And honestly, I don't know anyone who has. And even if they did, the dealership always gives you 2...sometimes 3. You'd rather carry an iPhone that weighs 20 times as much as the fob?

Not the iPhone, the watch, my wife has one set of keys I have the other. The new fobs are like over $300.00 each and the lasercut keys add even more, and of course they don’t make the fobs waterproof.

Never. I open the garage, pull my car out of the garage, and push the button to close it and drive away.

Again a modern convenience, push the button. I get your points, but you keep referring to conveniences. The world is just offering more or different as time moves forward.

It's called a wall timer...been in existence for 50+ years. But even sarcasm aside, if you can't come home, unlock your door, reach around the corner and hit the light switch, you've got a problem.

Wall timers have a problem with light switches, sure turn on a table lamp, but an overhead light in a mud room is harder.

The problem with this overall technology is 1)the single smartphone is aimed as a general "hub" for 100% you do in the physical world which requires all sorts of dependencies (that I described in detail earlier)...most especially electricity and 2)it's a solution to a problem that does not exist. We have keys, we have keyfobs. We have wall timers.

I get all your points, but the smartphone/watch isn’t the hub, it’s interacting with the hubs or directly with the devices. To your point if electricity goes out, unlock with the key, can’t open the garage door if you have an opener. Battery on your car dies, you unlock with a key. People should always have a manual backup.

like I said before modern conveniences keep moving forward

 

[manu chao]

The part I really don't like is that it requires "everything" to be powered… constantly powered… typically battery powered. I like my tech as much as anyone but a big part of me wants to leave this planet to the next generation in a better shape that I received it from the previous generation. This isn't the way forward to achieving that in more ways than one.

I think you've sort of already lost that battle with watches and headphones. Or any kind of camera, or any kind of payment card (well, you might classify externally power electronic devices like NFC differently).

The invention of human-controlled electricity was one of the most life-changing technologies looking at what it all enabled. The invention of batteries followed up on that by extending the use cases.

 

[nebo1ss]

That seems needlessly cynical. The way we've been unlocking car doors isn't difficult but requires a physical key that can get lost, stolen, forgotten, etc. Digitalizing more and more of our daily objects like keys, cards, IDs into the devices we use everyday, especially the phone, reduces clutter, increases convenience and safety. Do you also hate Apple Pay?




-----
That aside, shouldn't Apple have built UWB into AirPods Pro case at least? AirPods tracking isn't worth a damn and yet they are working on small tracking tags lol.

Much more likely that my phone "can get lost, stolen, forgotten, etc."

 

[manu chao]

To your point if electricity goes out, unlock with the key, can’t open the garage door if you have an opener. Battery on your car dies, you unlock with a key. People should always have a manual backup.

Regardless of how they are controlled, many garage doors are driven by an electric motor and cannot be easily operated without electricity. And I am not sure all modern cars can be push started if the battery is completely dead.

 

[Infinite Vortex]

I think you've sort of already lost that battle with watches and headphones.

No… I think you're talking about yourself when it comes to that battle.

My watch is a Seiko Kinetic that needs an overhaul once every 10-15 years. I got mine in 1998 and it needed the service about 2 years ago. As for my headphones, they're all the Apple in-ear model (I have 4 or 5 of them scattered about) that goes into a headphone jack.

 

[mannyvel]

Regardless of how they are controlled, many garage doors are driven by an electric motor and cannot be easily operated without electricity.

FYI, most garage doors can be pushed open if there's no power. It's actually a security problem in most homes, but most people don't really think about it much.

 

[konqerror]

FYI, most garage doors can be pushed open if there's no power. It's actually a security problem in most homes, but most people don't really think about it much.

Depends on the design of the garage door opener. For example, we have a screw drive opener, and there's no way you can reverse that without breaking anything. Similarly, if the door opener has a worm gear transmission internally, you can't force it back.

Regardless of how they are controlled, many garage doors are driven by an electric motor and cannot be easily operated without electricity.

Also, California law now requires battery backups on garage door openers because apparently some old people couldn't figure out how to pull the release cord during the recent wildfires and burned to death. This is among other hand-holding laws like smoke detectors have permanent batteries since poor people were stealing the batteries out of them.