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they do not go hand in hand. And because Google will sell more phones than apple does not mean google will have a better smartphone.

Google has stated they will never have a smartphone. At best they just guide (rather closely) companies when producing Android handsets.

That said, if the iPhone isn't on verizon by midway next year with no solid rumors of it coming, I'm probably going to get an HTC Eris (or the Eris II will be out by then). Cheap, sexy, and running a decent OS (which will hopefully by 2.0 by then).
 
Interesting debate

Or because it's an interesting debate that engages many minds in varying aspects of the possibilities.

Or maybe you're just incapable of recognising the fact that Mac users, on average, are smarter than PC users.

And by smarter, I mean we're more enquiring. We also tend not to write using lower case letters at the beginning of sentences, and use poor grammar. Why does that matter?, you might ask. Well, for a start, it's incorrect. But it's also ignorant and rude and immature.

So, when we debate, for five minutes or for a few days, maybe the smart thing to do is pay attention. The experience may just fill in the obvious gaps in your education.


the reason this topic has gotten so long is due to the fact that most apple fans have no idea what they're talking about..
they love apple and they will defend it to the death, even when their argument has no logic..

this has nothing to do with which product is better..

it's the simple fact that android will be available on a greater number of handsets compared to apple..

you guys need to look at the Microsoft vs Apple situation..
regardless of what you prefer or believe is a better product,
the one that makes software and licenses it out dominates the market share

you really must have a thick skull not to understand that..
 
Or because it's an interesting debate that engages many minds in varying aspects of the possibilities.

Or maybe you're just incapable of recognising the fact that Mac users, on average, are smarter than PC users.

And by smarter, I mean we're more enquiring. We also tend not to write using lower case letters at the beginning of sentences, and use poor grammar. Why does that matter?, you might ask. Well, for a start, it's incorrect. But it's also ignorant and rude and immature.

So, when we debate, for five minutes or for a few days, maybe the smart thing to do is pay attention. The experience may just fill in the obvious gaps in your education.

thanks for proving me right. Facts are facts. 2 +2 = 4, there is no debate about it. It's like saying apple dominates the os market share compared to msft.
 
Not sure why anyone would care that an android device would surpass iPhone in 2012 when we will all be dead on December 21, 2012 anyways. :cool:
 
Google has stated they will never have a smartphone. At best they just guide (rather closely) companies when producing Android handsets.

That said, if the iPhone isn't on verizon by midway next year with no solid rumors of it coming, I'm probably going to get an HTC Eris (or the Eris II will be out by then). Cheap, sexy, and running a decent OS (which will hopefully by 2.0 by then).

Gooooooooogleee phone!!!
 
I think the realistic expectation is: "If Apple doesn't make any more changes to the iPhone for the next 10 years, there will be an Android phone to beat it by 2020!!"

I feel like the trend is going to stay the same as it was with the G1. They're like "ooo look at our neat new features!!" Unfortunately, the iPhone/iPod just got those features, only better, just before you launched.

The competition just can't stay ahead, and Apple is going to keep it that way.

Yeah I mean what with the iphones Bluetooth transfers, tethering, awesome camara, Flash support, excellent reception, fantastic battery life etc..

Yeah way ahead.

No.

The iphone is successful because of the user-experience; Its one a child can pick up and use, it is slick and fluent experience and its packaged in something attractive.

People see it and are drawn to it because of this, the other phones require time and effort to navigate between menus and options to figure out how to use it - The iphone is simple. Pick up and play.

It has pushed the boundaries on user-experience and how a phone should try and work Yes and that has been a very attractive feature because it does everything all other phones can do but presents it far better.
 
i really divided on the matter i think android has a possibility of surpassing iphone market share only because android platform is on more then just 1 smart phone. However iphone is simplistic and has the app store which has way more developer backing then android does at the moment. Mainly because there is money to made from the app store where android simply does not have enough popularity for developers to make money from its store. I think the biggest thing hurting the iphone is the fact that it is locked on ATT. I think it needs to be on all major US cell networks or at least on verizon.
 
Android SDK - crapfest

I tried installing the android sdk, it is the usual linux crapfest of having to fix and tweak everything. After 1 hour I still could not get it working. Absolutely appalling, makes me wonder about google. Aapl wants max lockdown on all their **** but at least it works.
 
I've been an iPhone for years, starting with the original iPhone then the 3G, then the 3GS. I firmly believed that I would be getting the next iPhone...until I had a chance to play with the Motorola Droid!

Let me explain. I'm not brand loyal won't go on a stupid forum to claim the iPhone is the best phone...because..I happen to own one. That is rather childish. I choose to own whatever i deem best for me. A few years ago it WAS the iPhone..now it IS the Droid.

Open source, yes could be hard for developers to develop Apps for different versions of hardware, but many developers are not focusing their Apps to the most popular phone (ie..Droid) so the Apps runs bug-free.

The UI interface and ability to customize is amazing!

External memory card allows for apps as well as data to be easily backed up. If an Iphone craps out...you may have your iTunes backup. What if your PC dies too (yes it happened to me) your data is lost! And to restore data, you need another iPhone to get AT your data. Not so with Droid, all your data is on your memory card!

Ability to install and load what you want. Wow, it feels so nice to be able to do what you want, with what's YOURS! No need to Apples approval, especially when it comes to 'moral' stuff. We're all adults, let us do what we want..even if it's porn.

Ability to run programs in the background. This is the single MOST important feature to me. Imagine reminders that SPEAK to me to buy Milk when I'm close to my grocery store!!!! Or to mail something when I'm close to the Post office!

Calendar that automatically synch with Google calendar. No extra fees for Mobile Me..and works absolutely perfectly! Unlike Mobile Me..which I had.

Same for Gmail..instant notification!

The list goes on and on!!!!

Please don't take this as IPhone bashing. It's a great phone, especially with iTunes and I can integrate into my car stereo. But the benchmark has been raised.
Just have an open mind, try other phones and you'll be impressed!!!
 
I tried installing the android sdk, it is the usual linux crapfest of having to fix and tweak everything. After 1 hour I still could not get it working. Absolutely appalling, makes me wonder about google. Aapl wants max lockdown on all their **** but at least it works.

Load Sholmod..it's a open step, one package to root (hack) your phone.

And the coolest part about it is, it's made for people like you...meaning it's dummy proof! ;)
 
I've been an iPhone for years, starting with the original iPhone then the 3G, then the 3GS. I firmly believed that I would be getting the next iPhone...until I had a chance to play with the Motorola Droid!

Let me explain. I'm not brand loyal won't go on a stupid forum to claim the iPhone is the best phone...because..I happen to own one. That is rather childish. I choose to own whatever i deem best for me. A few years ago it WAS the iPhone..now it IS the Droid.

Open source, yes could be hard for developers to develop Apps for different versions of hardware, but many developers are not focusing their Apps to the most popular phone (ie..Droid) so the Apps runs bug-free. Debatable about apps running bug free on any platform.


The UI interface and ability to customize is amazing!
This would be nice

External memory card allows for apps as well as data to be easily backed up. If an Iphone craps out...you may have your iTunes backup. What if your PC dies too (yes it happened to me) your data is lost! And to restore data, you need another iPhone to get AT your data. Not so with Droid, all your data is on your memory card!

Ability to install and load what you want. Wow, it feels so nice to be able to do what you want, with what's YOURS! No need to Apples approval, especially when it comes to 'moral' stuff. We're all adults, let us do what we want..even if it's porn.

Ability to run programs in the background. This is the single MOST important feature to me. Imagine reminders that SPEAK to me to buy Milk when I'm close to my grocery store!!!! Or to mail something when I'm close to the Post office! This would be nice..



Calendar that automatically synch with Google calendar. No extra fees for Mobile Me..and works absolutely perfectly! Unlike Mobile Me..which I had.
You can do this too without Mobile Me on the iPhone

Same for Gmail..instant notification! You can get this on the iPhone

The list goes on and on!!!!

Please don't take this as IPhone bashing. It's a great phone, especially with iTunes and I can integrate into my car stereo. But the benchmark has been raised.
Just have an open mind, try other phones and you'll be impressed!!!

See bold area's.
 
Calendar that automatically synch with Google calendar. No extra fees for Mobile Me..and works absolutely perfectly! Unlike Mobile Me..which I had.

Same for Gmail..instant notification!

If you don't need to access an Exchange server, you can do this with Google Sync on the iPhone.

http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/answer.py?answer=138740&topic=14252

EDIT: I'm not keeping track, but did they ever get around to fixing the memory storage on the droid so you can have more than 256 MB of apps? The microSD is kind of useless if you can't you know use it.

B
 
Honestly. The only things I want from an internet empowered phone is to work well with my email (gmail) and calendar.

So far my blackberry serves me alright. But it sucks in everything else.
 
All I'm going to say is that Apple isn't doing enough to keep iPhone users...well, iPhone users!

Two of my cousins now own droids. One had an iPhone and got a Droid once he started working at a Verizon store. The damn phone is jampacked with features that Apple refuses to include.

In order for Apple to improve their device, they must first be beaten. Otherwise, they will sit on their asses just watching the cash come in. They do it with their current line of computers and they are doing it now.

I love my iPhone but I think it is just that time. Hopefully they can come back. It is time to loosen their grip on the App Store, let Google do their "thang" and add numerous features that are available NATIVELY!
 
I can believe this, but only since the Android OS is open source. This means companies are making phones with their OS, not because its better. The iPhone is the superior phone, but Google is doing a great job at making the Android available to the masses.
 
alienating a lot of developers?

Erm.. you're being closed minded.

The SDK is limited only to the Apple OS, granted, it relies on hooks, however, you are alienating a hell of a lot of people from developing on the platform.

Interesting thought... I guess that's why so few people develop for the Iphone. Probably explains the paltry 150,000 apps written in the last eighteen months and the pitiful 3,000,000,000 downloads.

I wish we had more .net developers cranking out apps a rate of 4 a year. Hopefully, Apple will learn from the folks in Redmond and really start making useful stuff.
 
That's like arguing Linux will rule all computers in 201xyz.

Interesting thought... I guess that's why so few people develop for the Iphone. Probably explains the paltry 150,000 apps written in the last eighteen months and the pitiful 3,000,000,000 downloads.

I wish we had more .net developers cranking out apps a rate of 4 a year. Hopefully, Apple will learn from the folks in Redmond and really start making useful stuff.

Plus the apple app store is confirmed to own close to 95% of mobile app market.
 
Google^

Yes Android will surpass the iPhone OS as all the phone manufacturers are adopting it (the smart ones anyway, sorry Microshaft). That being said however, Apple does have a problem on it's hands. Google is refining its product and very soon it will give Apple a good run. Right now Apple is king of the good smartphone market and if you want one you have to go to AT&T and give up call reliability for it. Once there is a great option, Apples foray into the cell market is going to be hit hard. Other manufacturers are giving AMOLED screens and are getting better and better. Once they get a decent music program or they make their phones play nice with iTunes and get some really good apps (Hey Google I don't like shopping for apps on my phone) the iPhone will have serious competition. Hey Steve Jobs, you better quit being so hardheaded and give us Flash. Yeah I know it is old tech but most websites use it...get it? The other manufacturers gotta love this about Jobs. I am pretty much an Apple fanboy but I am really starting to think Jobs is a douche. Hopefully he will review the history of other American companies who get successful and sit back and let the others pass them by, taking the marketshare with them. If Jobs and Co. aren't careful that is exactly what is going to happen to Apples wireless share.
 
I can believe this, but only since the Android OS is open source. This means companies are making phones with their OS, not because its better. The iPhone is the superior phone, but Google is doing a great job at making the Android available to the masses.

That is pretty delusional talk right there. The iPhone is superior...how? I can tell you that I like the iPhone UI better but that is where it ends. The droid marketplace is better or will become better (mostly because it is open source). I have already seen some apps that do a better job than their counterpart on the iPhone. Now don't get me wrong, the App Store has SO MANY more choice but it wouldn't surprise me if this quickly changes. The Android Marketplace is still relatively new.

The Droid is superior in native features and this is my main concern. Apple is very behind on this...and it is nothing new to know that Apple doesn't pick up anything new until everyone else has it. Still waiting for hdmi on macbooks. The UI is nothing to laugh at either. THese aren't poorly designed phones and it is the type of delusional thinking that "Apple rules, other developers drool" that is getting us no where. The worst part is that it just requires a new software update...they just don't want to do it until their last string begins to break.

When I originally bought my iPhone, I came on here and posted some negatives about the phone. 90% of this community grabbed their pick forks and demanded to know where I lived. Of course, no one had any input on my points because there are none. The mentality here is take it like it is (long and hard) or go somewhere else.
 
Two issues :

1) From the original post "In 2010, as many as 40 models of Android devices will ship, . . . "

How the heck is a developer supposed to support that many different devices? Even if there were 5 different screen resolutions, it would be hard to optimize your app for each. Now different RAM configurations, different CPU's, different everything, OUCH.

2) 3 BILLION downloads! If you have had an iPhone for the last few years and have purchased maybe 50 to 100 applications; are you willing to give up not only your hardware, AND the software you purchased but all the DATA that you've put into those applications just to switch OSs? I can see if you're someone who only uses it for gaming or social networking, yeah, but many people have TONs of time and energy put into USING their applications. Yes, I know, some people will, but the masses will think twice about it.
 
The Android Marketplace is still relatively new.
The Android Marketplace "opened for business" roughly 90 days after the iTunes App Store did, no?

07/10/2008 = iTunes App Store launches
10/22/2008 = Android Marketplace launches
 
Open Source

I can believe this, but only since the Android OS is open source. This means companies are making phones with their OS, not because its better. The iPhone is the superior phone, but Google is doing a great job at making the Android available to the masses.

What is it with open source fanatics? I mean let's talk about the great open source achievements of the past 15 years. There are many, but they never really seem to turn into market leading commerce, it's like profitable communes, mutually exclusive/oxymoronic. Google is not the king of open source. They protect their algorithms with all the secrecy that Apple does it's product releases. No one seems to notice this.
Google rips people off right and left and has a monopoly with adwords, but no one says a thing. The whole android platform is about making sure that they can sell as many ads as possible for the highest price possible. Steve Jobs was right when he called them evil. Apple doesn't pretend to be your benevolent friend, google sucks, and I hope the android platform is the beginining of the end!
 
No one seems to notice this.
i don't agree with much of your post, but i agree with the sentiment. i'm tiring of the Google = Good, Apple = Evil heard around the boards.

they are both companies that are just trying to make money. sadly, people paint Apple as the bad guy either because 1) the iPod was extremely successful or 2) they assumed apple would eventually go bankrupt 10 years ago and are upset that it didn't happen. luckily Gen Y'ers who don't care about what computers run facebook the best are buying products based on what they want, and not which processor is in it.

will there be more android phones than iPhones in the world? probably. but right now there are more blackberrys, more symbian based phones being sold. the iPhone is selling just fine. just because there are a lot of great phones on the market doesn't mean apple will sell less than 8 million iPhones a quarter.
 
That is pretty delusional talk right there. The iPhone is superior...how? I can tell you that I like the iPhone UI better but that is where it ends. The droid marketplace is better or will become better (mostly because it is open source). I have already seen some apps that do a better job than their counterpart on the iPhone. Now don't get me wrong, the App Store has SO MANY more choice but it wouldn't surprise me if this quickly changes. The Android Marketplace is still relatively new....

It's a bit rich calling people delusional and then coming out with with wish list statements as if they're bound in volumes of 'The Future History of Smartphones vol ll'

The Android market has potential, but only for as long as lazy phone manufacturers, who have never learned how to do operating systems and software, are happy to grab a freebie. This situation is the same as you or me going to a fair and picking up a free dev copy of some new software... and then running a business off its capabilities. No license fee! That's the attraction.

The saved costs derived from having much lower in-house dev costs and shorter route to market make Android a gift. But not without major issues. CylonGlitch [above] makes this very valid point:

"... as many as 40 models of Android devices will ship, . . . "

"How the heck is a developer supposed to support that many different devices? Even if there were 5 different screen resolutions, it would be hard to optimize your app for each. Now different RAM configurations, different CPU's, different everything, OUCH."

It's a ludicrous state of affairs. A wet dream for the armchair geek maybe, but for the non geek buyer, the proposition is entirely different. It already gives me a headache just thinking about it.

With the iPhone, Apple have demonstrated one of the oldest marketing principles still holds true in the 21st Century. If you give people three models to choose from with two colour options, you make the proposition simpler.

But all other manufacturers are still depending on the old marketing model of offering a bewildering array of models to try and catch the entire market. Now, that model has failed already - because it doesn't work. The market is automatically diluted. So why are they still using it?

speedriff [also above] has decided Steve Jobs is a "douche" because he's being "hardheaded" over Flash, while "Other manufacturers are giving AMOLED screens and are getting better and better."

Apple make more profit from all their products than anyone else. One way they do this is by waiting until they can demand a very high proportion of a large enough production of a component [NAND flash memory, screens etc] at the most competitive price, or can manufacture in-house [CPUs]. That's not just good business, it's vital for long term survival.

Wait until June this year and we'll see the new iPhone with a longer [HD aspect ratio] OLED screen. And HTML5 is the future. in reality, Adobe are better candidates for the 'douche' epithet here. If Flash had fewer issues, maybe Apple would add it.

What you need to understand is that Apple is better at seeing, predicting and exploiting the WHOLE picture, than any other company in this game. And anyone who seriously thinks a disparate group of not for profit developers and a market full of lazy manufacturers with a 19th Century sales mentality are going to win this one, is simply not even looking at it properly.
 
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