Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple != Legacy support

Apple = Jumping on new tech with little regards to the past

Overall I'm happy with my 2006 Mac Pro.....don't really need the 64-bit kernel since the machine will still run 64-bit apps and I can have my 11GB of RAM in it. :D

Apple kind of gives a false sense of future upgrades with the Pro because it's a tower and you can open it! They don't really want it to be like the PC world with endless options.


In other news... I have some good news for everybody. I contacted my local Apple Certified Dealer/Repair Shop and told them my story about the 4870 dying. They said that they might be able to get a replacement for me through Apple. Since they deal directly with Apple, it may be a bit easier for them to get a warranty replacement than one single customer. I explained to the guy that Apple wouldn't acknowledge my warranty because of the computer I was using, but he's still going to try to help me out. If I can get my 4870 back, I'll be a happy camper again.

Aren't you in NH? If so who is the local shop you deal with?

-Kevin
 
Bingo!!! Maybe they change every 2 years if there is a significant increase in system horsepower.

The bottom line is anyone that actually needs the power is not going to keep a system long enough for what is being whined about here to be an issue. Those they don't need the power are going to be just fine with the 32-bit kernel.

Heck, there are many people out there using Tiger that are happy as a cat!

S-
In my case, those that are in the position they have to upgrade, do have a little bit to be upset over. But it's not every user with an EFI32 based system.

My reasoning for the true workstation user, is that the CPU's are still quite capable, as the vast majority of software is still quite behind the hardware. 4 cores can do a lot of work, and there's precious little out that can use more than 4 at a time (multiple instances of fewer cores is another story).

But to be able to keep up, the subsystems need to be upgradable. In this specific case, that's a problem with graphics, and will be with OS X. Not out of necessity, but lack of support. If it were a consumer system, I'd say fine. Deal with it, you got 3yrs, and that's a good run. But given the use of enterprise components (Xeon & ECC RAM), I'd expect full support at least through all of 2011 (5yr support is expected for such systems from the intitial release, and provided by other vendors).
 
In my case, those that are in the position they have to upgrade, do have a little bit to be upset over. But it's not every user with an EFI32 based system.

My reasoning for the true workstation user, is that the CPU's are still quite capable, as the vast majority of software is still quite behind the hardware. 4 cores can do a lot of work, and there's precious little out that can use more than 4 at a time (multiple instances of fewer cores is another story).

But to be able to keep up, the subsystems need to be upgradable. In this specific case, that's a problem with graphics, and will be with OS X. Not out of necessity, but lack of support. If it were a consumer system, I'd say fine. Deal with it, you got 3yrs, and that's a good run. But given the use of enterprise components (Xeon & ECC RAM), I'd expect full support at least through all of 2011 (5yr support is expected for such systems from the intitial release, and provided by other vendors).

You obviously have never worked in the workstation market in sales or support. Because there are plenty of instances where 3 and 4 year old systems were unable to upgrade to the latest graphics hardware. This was common with SGI systems. There were several NT-based systems that could not be upgraded to newer hardware. Some because they did not have the correct slots and some because the correct drivers were not made available.

Apple will support the systems for at least 5 years. That does not mean those systems will get the latest and greatest hardware and software. That is unreasonable.

S-
 
I had a 2006 mac pro and was an awesome machine. Even upgraded the processors to make it an octo. Made a would of difference. My render times increased allot. Sold it to build an octo pc for half the price of a mac pro. The efi is a problem but snow leopard is supposed to allow you to run 64 bit apps (as far as I know). You might want to seriously consider running a linux distro that runs apps you need. Linux runs very well on these mac pro's. Otherwise, sell your mac pro and get a 2008 refurb. You should be able to get a good price.
 
Apple != Legacy support

Apple = Jumping on new tech with little regards to the past

Overall I'm happy with my 2006 Mac Pro.....don't really need the 64-bit kernel since the machine will still run 64-bit apps and I can have my 11GB of RAM in it. :D

Apple kind of gives a false sense of future upgrades with the Pro because it's a tower and you can open it! They don't really want it to be like the PC world with endless options.


Aren't you in NH? If so who is the local shop you deal with?

-Kevin

MacEdge in Portsmouth. They're great. I just went there today with my card and they took it and they're gonna have it sent in to Apple for a warranty replacement. They didn't ask for my computer serial number either. So hopefully, since they're higher up on the chain, they'll be able to replace my card under warranty.

I guess I'll have to wait and see.


Anyways... as I was saying... it's not that I *need* a 64bit kernel right now... I'm just afraid that Apple will drop 32bit support in the next OS upgrade and I'll be stuck on Snow Leopard on this machine and I won't be able to use the new features that Apple will tout about in 10.7. Plus, the amount of graphics cards you could choose from would be much greater if we had a 64bit EFI. That's what it's all about for me. To me, this machine is still the greatest Mac I've ever owned in my life. I don't think I'll ever downgrade to a non Mac Pro. I love the power and expandability, but my choice of graphics cards are pretty slim (especially since Apple doesn't even sell a legit card for these machines anymore).

So hopefully I'll get my 4870 fixed and sent back to me and I won't have to buy another one. That's what all started this in the first place. I was mad at Apple for not supporting a card that obviously works in any Mac Pro, yet they say it doesn't. All they have to say is that it works in all Mac Pros and people would be much happier. Is there any technical reason why they can't support the 4870 in the first gen Mac Pro?

Edit: MacEdge just emailed me back asking for my Mac Pro serial number. Looks like the same thing is going to happen and I'll get denied a replacement because of my unsupported machine. Effing Apple! :(
 
You obviously have never worked in the workstation market in sales or support.
Actually, I have back in college, but that's been awhile, and the technology has long since changed. Fortunately, for the better these days (namely PCIe bus, rather than a succession that required new boards,... to keep up).

Because there are plenty of instances where 3 and 4 year old systems were unable to upgrade to the latest graphics hardware. This was common with SGI systems. There were several NT-based systems that could not be upgraded to newer hardware. Some because they did not have the correct slots and some because the correct drivers were not made available.
In some cases, particularly graphics workstations, yes prior to the introduction of the PCIe bus. The GPU bus kept changing often enough that the smartest thing to do was get a new system each time, which would have been required at ~3yr cycle. But that's no longer the case, as we're now on PCIe, and what my statement was based on. Beyond that, it's more determined by software and CPU requirements. As you can swap CPU's in some cases, that means the majority of the system can remain in service longer.

But like anything, it's all down to a case by case basis. But my point was, that with PCIe, there's more ability to retain systems that otherwise would have had to be re-purposed for another task (typically a different user that doesn't have as high a requirement for performance) or sold off/disposed.

Then there's workstation use that's not 3D intensive, such as what I do with it. Some 3D (layouts), but it's small overall, and I can get away with a decent consumer card. What interests me, is GPGPU use, as adding 2 or 3 inexpensive cards have the potential of making a drastic improvement, even over a DP system, as the software isn't capable of using all the cores in such a system. The software's too far behind. Even if it could, the GPGPU performance will be more than that a second CPU can provide anyway.

Apple will support the systems for at least 5 years. That does not mean those systems will get the latest and greatest hardware and software. That is unreasonable.
I look at it this way. Extended Apple care provides 3yrs from the date of purchase. So an '07 system would be ending now. That means before 2011 is done, the last of it will have completed (presuming there were '07's sold in 2008 either before the early '08 MP's shipped, or as a refurbished system). That's all that Apple really seems to care about. Any support afterwards seems to be by happenstance.

For example, the HD4870 can actually work in those systems (though it has certain limitations, namely GPGPU floating point calcs are only single precision). They could choose to sell it to EFI32 system owners with a proviso that it's not really suited to GPGPU use under SL. Rather easy to do, IMO. But they choose not to, and tell users that it won't work.
 
Well, MacEdge just got back to me and they talked to Apple. Apple has accepted my Mac Pro serial and my new card should be here at the beginning of next week! Yessssssss!!!

I'm excited now.
 
Well, MacEdge just got back to me and they talked to Apple. Apple has accepted my Mac Pro serial and my new card should be here at the beginning of next week! Yessssssss!!!

I'm excited now.

Good to know and thanks for setting a precedent! I'm not that far from Portsmouth myself, though hopefully I won't ever have go through this :)
 
Well, MacEdge just got back to me and they talked to Apple. Apple has accepted my Mac Pro serial and my new card should be here at the beginning of next week! Yessssssss!!!

I'm excited now.

Good news! I know if I spent $350 on Apple's card and they wouldn't replace it I'd be angry.
 
MacEdge in Portsmouth. They're great. I just went there today with my card and they took it and they're gonna have it sent in to Apple for a warranty replacement. They didn't ask for my computer serial number either. So hopefully, since they're higher up on the chain, they'll be able to replace my card under warranty.


Awesome....thanks. I thought there was one in Portsmouth but couldn't remember.

Good luck with your replacement.

-Kevin
 
Well, MacEdge just got back to me and they talked to Apple. Apple has accepted my Mac Pro serial and my new card should be here at the beginning of next week! Yessssssss!!!

I'm excited now.
You got lucky. Enjoy. :)
 
You really got lucky. Ironic it happened on the same day this showed up on the front page. ;)

Well, they didn't commit fraud because they used my actual serial number and my machine is out of warrany… However, the video card warranty is not out. So they're replacing the card due to a defect in the card only since the card itself comes with a 1 year warranty.

So, not the same thing.
 
Well, they didn't commit fraud because they used my actual serial number and my machine is out of warrany… However, the video card warranty is not out. So they're replacing the card due to a defect in the card only since the card itself comes with a 1 year warranty.

So, not the same thing.

Waaait, isn't this the exact thing you told Apple when you tried to get them to replace it? Sounds to me someone at MacEdge has access to "proper channels" :)
 
Well, they didn't commit fraud because they used my actual serial number and my machine is out of warrany… However, the video card warranty is not out. So they're replacing the card due to a defect in the card only since the card itself comes with a 1 year warranty.

So, not the same thing.
I wasn't aware of the specifics, and it's really cool that they got Apple to replace the card (seems like a defective unit to me, and should support the warranty, no matter the system it was installed in).

But the comment was only to tease anyway, and I'm glad they got Apple to do the right thing, and replace a defective product within the warranty period. :D
 
Waaait, isn't this the exact thing you told Apple when you tried to get them to replace it? Sounds to me someone at MacEdge has access to "proper channels" :)

When I called Apple in the beginning, they told me that I was using an unsupported machine. Then the guy said he'd try to replace it anyways. He told me to hold on the phone while he figured out a way to do it. A few minutes later, he came back and said their system won't let him replace it because of the way it's designed... because he entered my serial number.

MacEdge also needed my serial number, but the guy must have figured out a way to get a replacement card. Apple knew the entire situation... there was no fraud going on. They are replacing the card on their own free will even with the knowledge of having an unsupported system. It just turns out they got a nicer guy.

By the way... the same thing happens when I talk to different AT&T reps. Some people say it's impossible and others have no problems.

I wasn't aware of the specifics, and it's really cool that they got Apple to replace the card (seems like a defective unit to me, and should support the warranty, no matter the system it was installed in).

But the comment was only to tease anyway, and I'm glad they got Apple to do the right thing, and replace a defective product within the warranty period. :D

Yeah. I extremely doubt that my computer is the reason for the defect. Many third party cards for the PC come with a 2 year warranty and you can put them in any case and computer configuration you want... you know?
 
I'm in the same boat.

The Mac Pro is an amazing machine, speaking on behalf of my computer hardware experience. Apple does a top-notch job of picking and choosing internals that will output the best power-per-penny, compared to other workstation vendors.

I'm running Windows 7 via Bootcamp, and for the first time I'm considering removing the Mac OS X completely from my workstation, and running W7 full-time. I do video editing in Sony Vegas primarily, used to only use Photoshop/Lightroom in Mac OS X, but I'm finding the 64-bit compatibility in W7 far surpasses the "slimmed down" compatibility in SL.

Not to mention, the ATi HD4870 I purchased last year runs 100% in W7, but in SL the support is wonky at best (I have to switch DVI outputs every time I boot?).

I'm more disappointed in software developers for not coding their software for the Mac than I am at Apple. Though, I think Apple's hardware for the Mac Pro is severely overpriced (the GTX 285 for $450, give me a ******* break).
 
Yeah. I extremely doubt that my computer is the reason for the defect. Many third party cards for the PC come with a 2 year warranty and you can put them in any case and computer configuration you want... you know?
I'd be amazed if the cause was the computer. The card being defective is far more likely, and just needed time to break itself (i.e. enough hours being run hard).

I'm more disappointed in software developers for not coding their software for the Mac than I am at Apple. Though, I think Apple's hardware for the Mac Pro is severely overpriced (the GTX 285 for $450, give me a ******* break).
Software developers are going to follow the largest OS share, and that's still Windows. Apple also has a reputation of being difficult to work with in terms of both software and hardware. It's no secret that Adobe and Apple have no love for one another, and I wouldn't be surprised that that's the case with other vendors as well (or why some that were interested in making OS X compatible software never released anything).

The PC has a lot of competition that drives the prices down on hardware (i.e. ATI or nVidia based card made by mulitple vendors). That's not the case with Mac compatible graphics cards cards though. It's a limited market, and Apple wants high margins, resulting in the prices are much higher.
 
Listen to yourself!!

Does your computer do less now than it when you bought it? No. By your own admission, it runs better now than ever. Did Apple say that you system would work with all new video cards and displays? If they did, you have a case for complaining. That didn't, so............

S-

Are you serious? He is saying he purchased Apple's premier computer -- their only machine that is designed to be "upgradeable" -- and when you purchase a 64-bit machine in '06 you are investing in a product that has some level of future-proofing built in. A botique-type shop like apple that positions itself as customer friendly should do better by it's customers... it's this image that Win/PC customers have found appealing in recent years and started making the switch -- watch how fast they all turn and run if everyone has a similar experience...

I know I cancelled my new 27" iMac after reading some of the posts highlighting problems... AND then there are all of the awful time capsule complaints. As I sat and considered my $2400 imac and the fact that there was no BR/HDMI (yes, i'd like to use it as a multi-purpose machine), I realized I might be buying more hype and less computer, so waiting seemed more prudent.

So I'm sitting here on my 2004 Dell/XP/3ghz hyper-threading PC I purchased 6years ago (about as fast as they were making them back then) and it was future-proofed enough to handle 2010 and beyond. So, until I see BR/HDMI or an impressive tablet, I'm stuck on the outside looking in with nothing but an iPhone and a dream...
 
Are you serious? He is saying he purchased Apple's premier computer -- their only machine that is designed to be "upgradeable" -- and when you purchase a 64-bit machine in '06 you are investing in a product that has some level of future-proofing built in. A botique-type shop like apple that positions itself as customer friendly should do better by it's customers... it's this image that Win/PC customers have found appealing in recent years and started making the switch -- watch how fast they all turn and run if everyone has a similar experience...

And indeed IT IS "upgradeable": you can add RAM, you can add/change hdd, you can change CPU, you can change VGA card.
Upgradeable don't mean that you can keep it "top notch" forever ...

And please stop whining about "64-bit" if you don't really know what are you speaking of.
This is NOT Windows. Here you can actually RUN 64-bit Application even with a 32bit EFI.
 
And indeed IT IS "upgradeable": you can add RAM, you can add/change hdd, you can change CPU, you can change VGA card.
Upgradeable don't mean that you can keep it "top notch" forever ...

And please stop whining about "64-bit" if you don't really know what are you speaking of.
This is NOT Windows. Here you can actually RUN 64-bit Application even with a 32bit EFI.
Exactly. Simply delaying the purchase of RAM and HDD storage over the years one could have easily saved the amount of cash probably equal to the cost of the machine itself.
 
And indeed IT IS "upgradeable": you can add RAM, you can add/change hdd, you can change CPU, you can change VGA card.
Upgradeable don't mean that you can keep it "top notch" forever ...

And please stop whining about "64-bit" if you don't really know what are you speaking of.
This is NOT Windows. Here you can actually RUN 64-bit Application even with a 32bit EFI.
It's a bit different though. The PC's firmware (BIOS) is capable of running either 32 or 64 bit versions, but the OS has to be one or the other. The 32 bit version cannot run 64 bit software. The 64 bit version can run 32 bit software.

OS X by contrast, can run 64 bit software on a 32 bit Kernel. But some of the new features in SL can't work on the EFI32 systems as intended, such as GPGPU with 64 bit graphics cards (limited to single precision floating point calculations). And the newest card that will work is the HD4870 (EBC based firmware), which Apple claims as unsupported on those systems. :rolleyes: nVidia's offerings won't work at all, as their firmware is EFI64.

For most, this probably won't matter. But for others, it will, such as video/graphics pros. They're going to have to get a newer system ('08 on) to be able to keep up with OS X (once exclusively K64, and graphics cards).
 
It's a bit different though. The PC's firmware (BIOS) is capable of running either 32 or 64 bit versions, but the OS has to be one or the other. The 32 bit version cannot run 64 bit software. The 64 bit version can run 32 bit software.

OS X by contrast, can run 64 bit software on a 32 bit Kernel. But some of the new features in SL can't work on the EFI32 systems as intended, such as GPGPU with 64 bit graphics cards (limited to single precision floating point calculations). And the newest card that will work is the HD4870 (EBC based firmware), which Apple claims as unsupported on those systems. :rolleyes: nVidia's offerings won't work at all, as their firmware is EFI64.

For most, this probably won't matter. But for others, it will, such as video/graphics pros. They're going to have to get a newer system ('08 on) to be able to keep up with OS X (once exclusively K64, and graphics cards).
AFAIK the only thing that it's limited is GPGPU with a 64bit VGA Card.
How many users are doing this kind of work on his MP here ? Maybe only you ;)


C'mon, you perfectly know that all the whining here is about "gaming&3dmark", and people speaking of 64bit without really knowing what is really involved. They only would like to have the latest vga card.
The question is: can you run 64bit applications on a 2006's MP ?
The answer is: yes, you can.

I know that there is pro people actually limited using a MP with EFI32, but this kind of people usually upgrade his workstation every 3 year or less, just because they really need the "top notch" for business.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.