Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Why are there AMD and whatnot stickers on the Macbook? Thats so HP, Dell to have stickers advertising the components..
 
And its much much cheaper for that service than iTunes. So yes, an old no longer produced Mp3 player from Microsoft has a better Ecosystem than the iPod.

Zune has a great music service but how's Pandora or any other internet radio doing on your Zune? Audio Galaxy? Google Music? Amazon Cloud Music? iTunes Match, etc? ;) Sorry, it's not really a "better Ecosystem" unless your definition is different from everyone else's.

And my ZUNE HD has had better sound quality than any iPod I've ever heard.

You may convince that it's better but iPods and iPhones in fact do have very nice measurable sound quality. What they lack is sound customization.

heres the thing.

What do you get with an iPad? Nothing, you get a giant iphone.

So you have no argument other than an old farcical trite? You buy a swimming pool and what do you get? nothing, you get a giant soup bowl.

iPad and other ARM-based devices are getting more capable every year. Some of things I can do with iOS devices are just mind boggling considering what we got with the first iPhone just 5 years ago. Macintosh was also a limited OS when it first debuted and was called a "toy". I don't know why you hate iOS with such passion. If it wasn't for i-devices, your beloved Macs might not even exist now.
 
Really? Where did you get that idea from?

If you buy entire Albums, which I do. They seem to be EXACTLY the same price weather they be at Wal Mart, Target, Best buy or a local record store.........................................

Lets talk about your Zune HD, how big is it's storage? Can you fit all your lossless files on it? No? That's MY point, I stated I have an iPod Nano and NOTHING can beat it.
You said it yourself, you have a big arse MP3 player with 320GB, is it bigger then the iPod classic? Because iTunes can do lossless as well if you rip off a CD.

And who was before Zune? And where is Zune now? As for the sound quality, well I'm not sure but I would compare it to the new iPod Touch as that's the same class of device.

I also notice you missed out my comments on the made for iPod system. So many devices are made to seamlessly work with an iPod now which again adds to the ease of use and the eco system.

I'm sorry but no matter what you say, you cannot ever argue against the facts about the iPod and iTunes. You can try, but ultimately you won't win.
 
Last edited:
Zune has a great music service but how's Pandora or any other internet radio doing on your Zune? Audio Galaxy? Google Music? Amazon Cloud Music? iTunes Match, etc? ;) Sorry, it's not really a "better Ecosystem" unless your definition is different from everyone else's.

I don't use Pandora on my MP3 player, I'm one of those people who think's that a MP3 player, should just be an MP3 player, it doesn't need internet, it doesn't need a ton of Apps, it just needs to be a great music player. And my Zune HD is, and I'm not biased, I had a iPod mini for a long time, LOVED it, the sound quality was very good for the time, battery life was great. Apple had a great interface which they.....stole from creative but meh, loved it.

I don't care about the branding, I care how the product performs.

You may convince that it's better but iPods and iPhones in fact do have very nice measurable sound quality. What they lack is sound customization.

I'm not saying the iPhones and iPods have BAD souond quailty, but I've been more impressed by other products.

The star of the show has been my Zune HD, whatever hardware they used in that machine had to be very high end.

Again, no Bias, at the time. My iPod Mini had amazing sound quality for what it was.

So you have no argument other than an old farcical trite? You buy a swimming pool and what do you get? nothing, you get a giant soup bowl.

When I buy a swimming pool, I know what I'm getting. A big puddle of water :p Apple advertises the iPad as some kind of desktop replacement it seems like, and thats a total lie.


iPad and other ARM-based devices are getting more capable every year. Some of things I can do with iOS devices are just mind boggling considering what we got with the first iPhone just 5 years ago. Macintosh was also a limited OS when it first debuted and was called a "toy". I don't know why you hate iOS with such passion. If it wasn't for i-devices, your beloved Macs might not even exist n


Maybe for you, but for me, I've been blown away for years and years and years, to the point where I'm j ust not anymore.

I don't think an ything I can do with an iOS device is mind boggling, my Tablet PC can do it all, and then some.

The Mac would be here with or without the iDevices, they just wouldn't be a massive company at this point in time. Which, as a consumer I don't care how much money Apple makes or how big they are. I give them money, they give me a warrenty and the product I want, and I walk away, I leave it at that. If they sell me garbage, like my 2011 iMac. I criticize, if they sell me something great, like my Pismo, I praise and say, wow, what a great computer.

I think things like the iPad could be so much better, and Apple won't do it in the name of profit, which is fine. Because they are a company, they don't care about you or me, just our wallets.

Look at Microsoft! They're bringing out the surface RT for the consumer, and the Surface Pro for people like me and business, why can't Apple make a OSX based tablet? I bet it would sell well.

----------

Lets talk about your Zune HD, how big is it's storage? Can you fit all your lossless files on it? No? That's MY point, I stated I have an iPod Nano and NOTHING can beat it.

My Zune HD is 64gb, and I update it every month or so after I get bored of its current selection

Yes, my Zune HD beats the **** out of your nano is sound quality, battery life, build quailty, and music selection ( 10 bucks a month for whatever I want )

You said it yourself, you have a big arse MP3 player with 320GB, is it bigger then the iPod classic? Because iTunes can do lossless as well if you rip off a CD.

Yes I do, and it sits in my car, and pretty much doesn't go anywhere else.

I have a VERY nice home audio system, and a very nice car audio system, I want to take advantage of those systems with good quality music.

And who was before Zune? And where is Zune now?

Who cares? I have a great product. And it serves its purpose very well.

I also notice you missed out my comments on the made for iPod system. So many devices are made to seamlessly work with an iPod now which again adds to the ease of use and the eco system.

Its an Mp3 player that plays music, where is the eco system again?

I'm sorry but no matter what you say, you cannot ever argue against the facts about the iPod and iTunes. You can try, but ultimately you won't win.

Maybe to you, but I want quailty, and value for my hard earned money. If you want to settle for overpriced crap, go for it.
 
Who cares? I have a great product. And it serves its purpose very well.

Its an Mp3 player that plays music, where is the eco system again?

Maybe to you, but I want quailty, and value for my hard earned money. If you want to settle for overpriced crap, go for it.

Is your car stereo standard? Or have you paid for it to be upgraded? Can you go and by a standard new car, plug your MP3 players into it and use he car's built in systems to fully control the device?

Why are you so insistent to ignore Apple's eco system? I guess it's because as I stated you simply have NO argument against it.

You would also need to compare your Zune HD to a new gen iPod Touch as that's the same class, I am not going to accept your Zune would kick the snott out of my iPod Nano, because I've never heard one.

Oh, and you should have kept your dual 2.7 G5. Apple's computers are strong in some areas, weak in others. I've not had MacBook Pro without a problem, although my only current issues are my front feet have fallen off.
 
Last edited:
I don't think anything I can do with an iOS device is mind boggling, my Tablet PC can do it all, and then some.

I have a tablet PC from work a few years ago and it's terrible. That's no different from saying "My old IBM PC with DOS can do anything that Mac can do, and then some".

The Mac would be here with or without the iDevices, they just wouldn't be a massive company at this point in time.

Except the history says otherwise. Most have forgotten now but after the initial iMac boom, Apple's revenue and profit in the early 2000s dipped. In fact in 2001 they lost money.

revenue-and-profit.gif


See Apple's revenue and profit recover from 2004-05? What happnened then? Well, let's see:

400px-Ipod_sales_per_quarter.svg_.png


I think things like the iPad could be so much better, and Apple won't do it in the name of profit, which is fine. Because they are a company, they don't care about you or me, just our wallets.

Look at Microsoft! They're bringing out the surface RT for the consumer, and the Surface Pro for people like me and business, why can't Apple make a OSX based tablet? I bet it would sell well.

Of course! And Apple has to find ways to satisfy the consumers to make profits. From what we can see, what they are doing is working and people love using i-devices. That might not please Mac enthusiasts but the reality is that Apple most likely wouldn't have survived without i-devices.

Windows tablets had been in existence before iPad for nearly 10 years and it failed over and over again. In fact last year Samsung made a Windows tablet that's nearly identical to Surface Pro in size and the specs. As always, it was a failure and Samsung had to dump that tablet for cheap.

Yet that failed business model is what you're suggesting Apple should follow. Moreover if you dislike Mountain Lion because it's too much like iOS, how can you like what Microsoft is doing with Windows 8? It's far far more like the toy tablet OS that you hate so much than OSX.
 
Look at Microsoft! They're bringing out the surface RT for the consumer, and the Surface Pro for people like me and business, why can't Apple make a OSX based tablet? I bet it would sell well.

Well I'm pretty confident Microsoft isn't launching the Surface for the good of the consumer, but for the good of your wallet.

It is a good device though granted, but as always, it will depend on it's sales and pricing as to weather it's a success. The hardware is very nice though.
You could actually argue the pricing, their is no way it will be $200 just like any iPad Mini won't be, so will MS price it between the iPads and Galaxy's, and the Fire HD's because that is where I think any iPad Mini will be priced at.
 
Is your car stereo standard? Or have you paid for it to be upgraded? Can you go and by a standard new car, plug your MP3 players into it and use he car's built in systems to fully control the device?

I drive a 2010 Crown Vic, fully loaded with everything ( bought it off a bankrupt limo company with 3K miles on it ), the stereo is not stock, its aftermarket, and I can plug any MP3 player, or phone into it no problem, even my old MP3 players, its called line out, I hit play, and it just plays :p

Why are you so insistent to ignore Apple's eco system? I guess it's because as I stated you simply have NO argument against it.

I ignore it, because I have my own Ecosystem that works for me better than anything Apple, or Microsoft or whoever can provide.

I get the music I really like off CD's, totally lossless.

I get a ton of music of Zune store for my Zune, 10 bucks a month for as much as I want. They have pretty much anything I've ever wanted.

Why do I need to pay more for less with Apple?

You would also need to compare your Zune HD to a new gen iPod Touch as that's the same class, I am not going to accept your Zune would kick the snott out of my iPod Nano, because I've never heard one.

I would sitll put my old Zune HD 64GB above a nano, or any iPod for that matters. Better built quailty ( no offense to your product, but you need to hold an Zune HD, its kinda like the iPod Mini, they did an incredible job ), has an amazing sound processor, and imo a better UI.

That's just me. If Appler can make another iPOd as good as the mini was, I'd be into a purchase.

Oh, and you should have kept your dual 2.7 G5. Apple's computers are strong in some areas, weak in others. I've not had MacBook Pro without a problem, although my only current issues are my front feet have fallen off.

I have ALL my computers that I've ever had, inculding the first computer that was ever " mine " which was a hand me down Packard Bell 486DX4, 75mhz ;). Still runs to this day ;) As does the first computer I bought with my own money. A refurbed iMac G3.
 
I have a tablet PC from work a few years ago and it's terrible. That's no different from saying "My old IBM PC with DOS can do anything that Mac can do, and then some".

I have a Acer Dual Screen Iconia windows 7 tablet, I would not call it horrible in anyway.

Of course! And Apple has to find ways to satisfy the consumers to make profits. From what we can see, what they are doing is working and people love using i-devices. That might not please Mac enthusiasts but the reality is that Apple most likely wouldn't have survived without i-devices.

I think they would have, yes they did lose some money, but I think with the refinement of the Mac, they could have survived, and still done very well, but meh, I'm not a " Mac Enthusiast ", I love tools, not toys. I don't care what brand is on the back of it.

Windows tablets had been in existence before iPad for nearly 10 years and it failed over and over again. In fact last year Samsung made a Windows tablet that's nearly identical to Surface Pro in size and the specs. As always, it was a failure and Samsung had to dump that tablet for cheap.

Yes, it didn't catch on, and I think in the early years, it was because the average tablet PC/convertible ran 2000-3000 dollars. The tech was't there at the time imo. And yes I did have a HP tablet PC, and I'd still take it over an iPad at this point.

I don't think the Microsoft Surface will be a failure, with the Microsoft name on it, I think it could go far.

Yet that failed business model is what you're suggesting Apple should follow. Moreover if you dislike Mountain Lion because it's too much like iOS, how can you like what Microsoft is doing with Windows 8? It's far far more like the toy tablet OS that you hate so much than OSX.

Its not a failed business model, yes its not making the most weathly company in the world, but the Windows Tablets wouldn't not exist unless they made some kind of profit, and I prefer them to the iPad.

Windows 8? Here's what the difference is, I can click a Live Tile, and go back into explorer, if I want. On OSX 10.8, I have no such option.
 
Yes, it didn't catch on, and I think in the early years, it was because the average tablet PC/convertible ran 2000-3000 dollars. The tech was't there at the time imo. And yes I did have a HP tablet PC, and I'd still take it over an iPad at this point.

Nope. I've said it already. Samsung had a tablet last year that's very Surface-like. It didn't cost 2000-3000 dollars and still failed.

You will take your HP tablet PC over an iPad, OK. Most customers will not. Basically all your arguments come down to "I don't like iOS" which is fine. But your bias against it is clouding your judgement. iOS is successful, massively so. And what you're advocating - mixing up desktop with tablet interface, did not succeed. You have to separate "what I like" from the reality.

And I don't know about your hope, but I showed you the historical fact that Apple struggled without i-devices.
 
If there is a smaller iPad, and that's a BIG IF, Apple will just unveil it alongside the next iPad event.

And miss out on the Christmas sales? I don't think so. Nobody wants an iPod for Christmas any more but an iPad Mini - now that would be popular.
 
Nope. I've said it already. Samsung had a tablet last year that's very Surface-like. It didn't cost 2000-3000 dollars and still failed.

That tablet still runs well over 1000 dollars, most consumers won't blow that much on a tablet.

You will take your HP tablet PC over an iPad, OK

Indeed I will. Again, No Apple hate, I just buy the best.

Most customers will not.

True. but I dont let market trends infulence me.

asically all your arguments come down to "I don't like iOS" which is fine

No not really, I think iOS is good for tons of people, and with a few more features, it would great for me.


But your bias against it is clouding your judgement. iOS is successful, massively so. And what you're advocating - mixing up desktop with tablet interface, did not succeed. You have to separate "what I like" from the reality.


No bias, I buy the best on the market. And do you mean Windows 8? I think Windows 8 is pretty great, you have your touch based interface for tablets and touch desktops, and your old school explorer for real work.

I think Windows 8 will do VERY well.

And I don't know about your hope, but I showed you the historical fact that Apple struggled without i-devices.

Struggled for a few years? yes? could they have done well without the iToys? I think so, if they really made the Mac Different.

I just miss the old Apple personally.
 
I have a check here written out to Apple for exactly $299 with "iPad Mini" in the Memo Line. (no sales tax in Delaware)

As soon as Apple releases an iPad Mini for the exact amount of this check, they are free to cash it whenever they would like
 
So what if someone makes a mockup? There's no data involved here.

----------

As for sound quality? Your right. CDs rape sound files.

CDs contain sound files. You should be comparing CD sound files to lossy AAC from the iTunes Store. Why can't Apple give us ALAC files instead? I hate lossy compression! I'd rather just have the best quality possible instead of being a cheapo with my storage. I have 4.5TB in my Mac, and I am going to use them!

----------

I would pay to see someone use a device this large as a phone. It's already hilarious to watch someone use an S3, which covers the better part of their face.

The headset would work. Problem, carriers?
 
when is the question?

there are few things going on right now ...

1) new dock connector
2) A6 chip 32nm
3) FaceTime HD camera - may be negligible
4) screen resolution

I think apple caught in two minds with the new iPad and iPad mini

When they release iPad mini they have to update the iPad too (at least with A6, FaceTime camera and new dock connector)

can they pull off something like this resolution into 2048x 1536 7.85" iPad mini, that will through the entire competition off may be for extra $100? let us say 16GB iPad mini starts like $349/$399 (instead of $249/$399 targeted market)

also there is a confusion, what you do with iPad 2 @ $399?

It is coming!!! when, what features and what price, no one knows.
 
For the love of god, it's not going to happen. The whole idea seemed ridiculous in the first place.

What resolution would it get, and wasn't the resolution fragmentation something apple wanted to prevent?

Wow, you do realize all the rumors explaining why this IS a good idea right?
 
The only resolution that would make sense is 1024x768, which is the same as the iPad 2

Here is my crystal ball view. These mock-ups are for the case manufactures to design their next series of cases. One got out and are now being knocked off on the grey market. Apple will call a press conference just before Thanksgiving launching this new iPad-mini (bet the name is very close to that) for Black Friday at the Apple stores and other retail.

A 1024 x 768 resolution is just right for this screen and doesn't cause a resolution break. It will price at right around $245 base with high end models for more flash. If they really want to hit hard have the base sell for $195. That is almost an impulse buy for many in the Apple ecosystem.

Other tablet makers have shown there is a market for these smaller form factors (not to mention it is a lot easier to get screens these size) and Apple is following along. I also bet this iPad-mini is the another project to be green lit after Steve died since Mr. Jobs hated the idea of a miniature tablet.
 
I have a check here written out to Apple for exactly $299 with "iPad Mini" in the Memo Line. (no sales tax in Delaware)

Wow. Who still writes checks? My current checking account didn't even offer checks as an option. Call the 800 number on your debit card and activate it. The people in the grocery store waiting behind you in line while you finish scribbling out that antiquate payment method will appreciate it.
 
Wow. Who still writes checks? My current checking account didn't even offer checks as an option. Call the 800 number on your debit card and activate it. The people in the grocery store waiting behind you in line while you finish scribbling out that antiquate payment method will appreciate it.

you missed the point
 
All these mockups look really neat! Surely, Apple will release an iPad mini to compete with Amazon's line of tablets. The only thing that concerns me personally is the price. I hope the cheapest offering will be around $300.
 
At this point I think a tablet with less than 200dpi is useless. The text will be blurry. I'm used to retina display quality.
This tablet will be for the segment that doesn't like buying the best and who doesn't mind settling - they're targeting the people who buy Android and Windows tablets.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.