Another Longtime Industrial Designer Leaves Apple

[CarAnalogy]

People dreamt about what strange new products Apple can make, and they exceed imaginations. That was Apple’s peak.

Now people don’t even talk about how Vision Pro could be built differently

I think they tried to Think Different but did it in the wrong direction. To me the two major flaws with Apple Vision Pro (TM) are iPadOS as a base, and that front glass.

It’s too locked down in software to truly be the future of computing on its own.

And I admire the idea of keeping people present while in the headset, but the glass isn’t working for that and it’s just adding weight and coming off as more of a gimmick than anything.

One is fairly easy to fix, the other not so much.

 

[CrysisDeu]

And it seems it has been relegated to history. Really sad that they literally wrote the book on how to do this right, and have been outright defying that wisdom on the very platform that it was born with.

Oh yeah and don’t get me started on “slightly modifying” some iPad Apps and iPadOS and call it VisionOS. And still have an interaction paradigm of literally a mouse and a keyboard.

VisionOS needed sooo many new things to be thought out, from the very root.

One crazy example is that you need to move eyes outside of a modal to click and dismiss it if it doesn’t have a close button

 

[J InTech82]

It’s good looking, but it didn’t have to be a bulky heavy headset. It didn’t have to be a better Quest3. It could be DIFFERENT

I'm not sure if you understand how much technology is in the product. I think they made it as small as possible while still looking good

 

[CrysisDeu]

I think they tried to Think Different but did it in the wrong direction. To me the two major flaws with Apple Vision Pro (TM) are iPadOS as a base, and that front glass.

It’s too locked down in software to truly be the future of computing on its own.

And I admire the idea of keeping people present while in the headset, but the glass isn’t working for that and it’s just adding weight and coming off as more of a gimmick than anything.

One is fairly easy to fix, the other not so much.

I think basing on iPadOS is fine, because MacOS is not cross platform, but iOS is.
But the thing is they need to fully leverage this benefit. Airplay iPhone/iPad/watch screens directly in Vision Pro, allow for more in device interactions that feels magical when Vision Pro literally knows where each of your devices are in real world.
And also make significant changes to the interaction modal so it’s fundamentally different from iPad.
iOS is a good base, but it needs so much more work. It’s like the original iOS, it’s based on MacOS, but every single thing is reasonably different.

On the second point, I could not agree more. They put two cameras that doesn’t even handle hand tracking to achieve pass through. They needed to do object occlusion. They need to have eyesight. They needed to do so much to achieve some sort of vision transparency, which is still not perfect and might never be. And the functionality it brings? Ipad 2d apps running in 3d. Like wtf? Why not just start with a pair of glasses and do what the current tech allows them to do, and think some more interesting use cases.

 

[CrysisDeu]

I'm not sure if you understand how much technology is in the product. I think they made it as small as possible while still looking good

I can reiterate what I meant.
For a good pair of AR glass, you don’t need full immersion, you don’t need digital pass through, you don’t need to run iPad apps.

An Apple GPT running on my iPhone and display critical information on my glass? Object recognition when needed without needing to pull out my iPhone? Notifications? Turn by turn navigations? Real time translations? Any of these use cases could have a huge user base. And the glass could be lightweight and could be worn 24/7
These hardware needs are choices because of the requirements, and I felt the requirement are wrong from the beginning, because the hardware needed for those can only be so small, and maybe for a long time

 

[1129846]

Yeah and they released the abomination of the Vision Pro lol.

Apple rode on the success of iPhone for a decade, and when the momentum dies, it not going to look good on them.


All of the new products: Apple Watch, Airpods, all of the services, are heavily dependent on iPhones. If a true paradigm shift comes and Apple is not in the boat. They are in big trouble.

Someone gets it. Since the iPhone almost everything else is built around it. Take away the iPhone and Apple loses a lot. The iPad is a separate device built on top of the phone but everything else is just an iPhone extension and requires an iDevice to really work.

Before the iPhone Apple made really neat new things. They had the iPod. A few new versions of it. Then came the iPhone and from there so much stuff just got redirected to the iPhone and sacrificing everything else.

I doubt Apple could survive if the iPhone market collapsed.

 

[CrysisDeu]

Someone gets it. Since the iPhone almost everything else is built around it. Take away the iPhone and Apple loses a lot. The iPad is a separate device built on top of the phone but everything else is just an iPhone extension and requires an iDevice to really work.

Before the iPhone Apple made really neat new things. They had the iPod. A few new versions of it. Then came the iPhone and from there so much stuff just got redirected to the iPhone and sacrificing everything else.

I doubt Apple could survive if the iPhone market collapsed.

The fact that what I said can get so much support on the forum really means Apple is losing fan bases. Just a few years back I won’t even dare to say it.

And with AI’s trend, the next paradigm could very well be around the corner.

 

[Surf Monkey]

It’s good looking, but it didn’t have to be a bulky heavy headset. It didn’t have to be a better Quest3. It could be DIFFERENT

Honestly, I think the issue with the device is that Steve once asked about “headphones for your eyes” and Cook got fixated on it to the point of ramming through Vision.

But is the concept truly valid? Do we want or need headphones for our eyes? Had Steve developed such a thing he would have made a point of showing us why we wanted and needed it. Cook hasn’t done that at all. And in the end, it’s possible that “headphones for your eyes” are limited practically to binoculars and night vision systems. It may not make any sense to do basic computing tasks inside a headset.

 

[CrysisDeu]

Honestly, I think the issue with the device is that Steve once asked about “headphones for your eyes” and Cook got fixated on it to the point of ramming through Vision.

But is the concept truly valid? Do we want or need headphones for our eyes? Had Steve developed such a thing he would have made a point of showing us why we wanted and needed it. Cook hasn’t done that at all. And in the end, it’s possible that “headphones for your eyes” are limited practically to binoculars and night vision systems. It may not make any sense to do basic computing tasks inside a headset.

I am not gonna lie, I really want headphones for my ears. But even when I wear headphones, I can still hear what’s outside, without needing digital pass through. And when it’s technically possible, I am not against it at all.

AR in full immersion is just not possible at this moment, and people will not accept it. A good lightweight glass could be a really good start to add some music to my eyes.

I am afraid Cook is going to see Vision Pro’s “failure” as a turning point which proves AR is not the future and terminates the project. And it’s very possible after Meta suffered the market cap loss with deep investment into VR. I just think AR should arrive, in Apple’s ecosystem, in a more accessible way

 

[Surf Monkey]

I am not gonna lie, I really want headphones for my ears. But even when I wear headphones, I can still hear what’s outside, without needing digital pass through. And when it’s technically possible, I am not against it at all.

AR in full immersion is just not possible at this moment, and people will not accept it. A good lightweight glass could be a really good start to add some music to my eyes.

I am afraid Cook is going to see Vision Pro’s “failure” as a turning point which proves AR is not the future and terminates the project. And it’s very possible after Meta suffered the market cap loss with deep investment into VR. I just think AR should arrive, in Apple’s ecosystem, in a more accessible way

Right. If headphones for your eyes are a valid concept they’d better do a lot of genuinely unique things, not just replicate the same computing experience you can already get with any other Apple product and do it far more conveniently and efficiently. Basic computing tasks are probably not suited to the system. It should be doing something much more imaginative and useful than that.

 

[CrysisDeu]

Right. If headphones for your eyes are a valid concept they’d better do a lot of genuinely unique things, not just replicate the same computing experience you can already get with any other Apple product and do it far more conveniently and efficiently. Basic computing tasks are probably not suited to the system. It should be doing something much more imaginative and useful than that.

Yeah, during WWDC 2023, when I saw the only thing they can talk about are floating 2D apps, especially 2D Apple maps, I know there’s something wrong with the vision.

Again, I am not being obnoxious here, 2D apps are still needed because there are so many out there. But no 3D maps, no 3D home app for smart home, seriously? There was nothing that excites me. And not to mention there were so many cool ideas online for AR.

Yeah sure I can use my eyes as pointers, but why? Steve explained why fingers were used for iPhones, and demoed so many cool new things only two fingers can do. Why eyes? What’s new?

 

[jwolf6589]

Apple silicon was Steve Jobs’s doing when he bought PA semi. The M series chip is just a modified A series chip.

Aesthetics has always been a big part of Apple’s ethos, dating back to the Apple computer then the Mac, iMac, iPod, etc. not all designs were successful but the point people are making is that Apple took bold risks. Now they’re driven by numbers on a spreadsheet.

I remember using the Apple II in school in the 1980's.

 

[Karma*Police]

I agree but who's left? Name one visionary at any company anywhere anymore. That's why Steve was so unique, there's nobody left with (mostly correct) opinions that strong and the chutzpah to see them through.

Uh, Elon Musk? He’s not only a visionary, but he dreams much bigger than Steve ever did… PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX, Boring Company, Neuralink, Starlink, Optimus.

Steve did amazing things, but it was all within the realm of computing and entertainment whereas Elon has done/is doing things that many people thought were impossible or the stuff of science fiction.

 

[smulji]

Somebody retires after being at a company for 30 years. Why does Bloomberg (and Mac Rumors) think this is newsworthy?

Per the article, this is why;

"Having an operations person oversee a division dedicated to design and innovation has rankled some staff,”

”Cost-cutting measures also have added to the unrest, they said."

 

[Surf Monkey]

Per the article, this is why;

"Having an operations person oversee a division dedicated to design and innovation has rankled some staff,”

”Cost-cutting measures also have added to the unrest, they said."

It is amusing how quickly people rush to comment on these short articles without actually reading them first.

 

[Naraxus]

Jobs never could hire a CEO who got what Apple is all about. First Scully and now Cook.

Cook has been nothing short of an abysmal failure in every respect except financial.

 

[Naraxus]

Don't you love it when people with no actual knowledge just give their opinions anyway though?

That's ok. Keep hiding your head in the sand while reality hits you in the face.

 

[Edgecrusherr]

Funny enough, I’m very happy with Apple’s hardware design over the last few years (starting when they decided to do away with the obsession with laptops are too thin for their own good), but it’s the software side of things that have been extremely disappointing to me recently.

 

[t0rqx]

This ship is gonna sink. No innovation. Products are produced with scratches. New devices get downgraded WiFi chips. App Store is full of malware and ads filled apps.
Forced firmware upgrades that degrade the device to initiate upgrades. The list goes on.

 

[Motorola68000]

Sensationalist news creation....Man retires after working for 32 years with same employer....

Doesn't have quite the same news pull as the headlines does it.

Gives someone younger a chance to put their stamp on innovation, but of course we can't put that in a sensationalist story can we.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Sensationalist news creation....Man retires after working for 32 years with same employer....

Doesn't have quite the same news pull as the headlines does it.

Gives someone younger a chance to put their stamp on innovation, but of course we can't put that in a sensationalist story can we.

Read the article. There’s a lot more going on than that.

 

[diddl14]

It's 2024. Probably a lot more early day wizards are or will soon be retiring.
Not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Motorola68000]

Someone gets it. Since the iPhone almost everything else is built around it. Take away the iPhone and Apple loses a lot. The iPad is a separate device built on top of the phone but everything else is just an iPhone extension and requires an iDevice to really work.

Before the iPhone Apple made really neat new things. They had the iPod. A few new versions of it. Then came the iPhone and from there so much stuff just got redirected to the iPhone and sacrificing everything else.

I doubt Apple could survive if the iPhone market collapsed.

Don't agree 100% but you certainly have a good point. I've made that comment many times and in my opinion its why we are restricted on high end computing as everything as you suggest is based on iPhone or combinations thereof.

 

[Jim Lahey]

This ship is gonna sink. No innovation. Products are produced with scratches. New devices get downgraded WiFi chips. App Store is full of malware and ads filled apps.
Forced firmware upgrades that degrade the device to initiate upgrades. The list goes on.

Not sure about sink, but it's been taking on water since 2011. In my mind the company has long ago lost its lustre. Myself and most people I know personally believe the X factor left the building quite some time ago and it's now just another big tech megacorp but wearing a fancy frock.

 

[Surf Monkey]

It's 2024. Probably a lot more early day wizards are or will soon be retiring.
Not necessarily a bad thing.

Again, there are several big red flags in that article.