Agree with this. MBP's already get extremely hot even with intel chips. AMD's get even hotter than intel, so yeah you can maybe even cook a steak on a MBP with AMD inside.
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Another Look at Apple's Core 2 Duo Choice for New 13-Inch MacBook Pro
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Agree with this. MBP's already get extremely hot even with intel chips. AMD's get even hotter than intel, so yeah you can maybe even cook a steak on a MBP with AMD inside.
For most people, the Core 2 Duo is fast enough, the i5 and i7 are fast enough, so the speed difference is zero. When running Flash, the processor speed doesn't make any difference, because Flash uses 100% of one CPU anyway, no matter how fast or slow that CPU is. And one day they will learn how to do multithreading and use 100% of both cores and drain your battery twice as fast
You might have missed the point there.
It's the fact that Jobs is in the habit of spewing BS to cover up shortcomings in his products.
On one hand, Apple advertises that "the new Intel Core i5 and Core i7 processors boost performance up to 50 percent over the previous generation," and on the other hand, Jobs tells us that Core i would provide a "very a very small CPU speed increase."
I suppose you don't see any problem with this?
As far as mentioning Flash, it was only to point out the even more ludicrous claims by Jobs why he would not allow it on the iPad.
Of course, nobody has ever gone broke by underestimating the public, and your post proves the point.
Relax guys.
The new 13" is a great machine.
I paid way, way, way more for my similary specced* 1.5 yrs old 15" Unibody MacBook Pro. A machine that still feels snappy and overall wonderful.
A 2.4 GHz C2D is a pretty damn fast processor. On top of that they doubled the RAM to a standard 4 GB - that improves everyday performance a lot. The harddrive went from a paltry 160 GB to a respectable 250 GB. And the 320M graphics sounds really, really fine.
All in all a very well balanced system.
Just ordered one for my wife.
*Excluding the screen size, naturally.
The new 13" is a great machine.
I paid way, way, way more for my similary specced* 1.5 yrs old 15" Unibody MacBook Pro. A machine that still feels snappy and overall wonderful.
A 2.4 GHz C2D is a pretty damn fast processor. On top of that they doubled the RAM to a standard 4 GB - that improves everyday performance a lot. The harddrive went from a paltry 160 GB to a respectable 250 GB. And the 320M graphics sounds really, really fine.
All in all a very well balanced system.
Just ordered one for my wife.
*Excluding the screen size, naturally.
I still make MP3 CDs. Beats having your car broken into and the iPod and retail CDs stolen with the stereo.
[Bold added by me]
Its called compromise. Not all of us have given up on optical drives. For us that wish to keep the drive and not connect it externally/ lug it in the laptop case and have an extremely portable laptop, Apple has graciously made us the 13" MBP. For those of us that want the ultimate in portability, there is the MBA. For those of us that want a portable power-house workstation, there is the 17" MBP. There are a myriad of options by Apple; all striking a hard but well made compromise among the features we want.
[I just realized while putting the above quotes together that I was quoting the same person in the last two.]
Well, that sorta begs the question, dunnit?
I don't have any cause to impress anyone. How the hell would I do that with a 6-year-old machine?
Have to admit, that's the same thing I thought when I read your first post.
A clear contradiction if Jobs was discussing the i5 and i7 in both instances. However, it has been generally suggested that the 13" would have received the i3 and what Jobs was comparing to when he said "very small CPU speed increase." There have been several threads that illustrate that with the i3 this is likely true, mainly because of the lack of Turbo Boost and lower clock speed.
Example thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/899572/
I believe the i5's are 2-core, not quad. Why did Apple go with C2D's on the 21.5" iMac refresh then? were they holding the quantity out for the MacBook Pro's?
Some things that I think would be "remarkable" on the MacBook Pro's:
- True quad-core's.
- 16" mid-range screen option.
- 1080p on 16" and above with IPS (switchable - if possible)
- I see laptop bags, calculators, flashlights, a LOT of things with solar panels, why not use the "black frame" around the screen to collect solar power? it would really send a Apple is green message if you made the Apple logo on the lid a solar power collector too! (get light on both sides!) Solar panel cells have gotten a lot better, they don't even require direct sun-light to charge. There's a way to extend battery life there I'm sure.
- Make the touch-pad flush with "laser-etch precision", and support a "digital pen" so it can be used with pressure levels as a drawing tablet. (would be useful for spot editing photos. Besides, you got the power button pretty darn flush, and looks great that way.)
- iSight 8mp with face tracking (can also double for security and user login recognition), and some software tech to detect basic "gestures" in front of the screen. If they can put you in front of a roller-coaster video, surely they can figure out how to implement gestures with the iSight, even if just simply move windows around, quick-view and zoom.
- ATI HD 5870/5970 w/1gb GDDR5 (dedicated) 'What's with 256mb videoram in modern-day (premium cost) systems? (especially on desktops!)
- Make opticals an "external" accessory, and put a little option when ordering to choose DVD or BlueRay
- 3x USB 3.0 ports. (or Light Peak of that ever see's the light of day.)
- 3G (as an option)
- 1tb drives.
A side-note that is irrelevant...Apple please "smooth" the edges out on the Magic Mouse! it gets painful (just-right of the middle finger) to use after a while!
Some things that I think would be "remarkable" on the MacBook Pro's:
- True quad-core's.
- 16" mid-range screen option.
- 1080p on 16" and above with IPS (switchable - if possible)
- I see laptop bags, calculators, flashlights, a LOT of things with solar panels, why not use the "black frame" around the screen to collect solar power? it would really send a Apple is green message if you made the Apple logo on the lid a solar power collector too! (get light on both sides!) Solar panel cells have gotten a lot better, they don't even require direct sun-light to charge. There's a way to extend battery life there I'm sure.
- Make the touch-pad flush with "laser-etch precision", and support a "digital pen" so it can be used with pressure levels as a drawing tablet. (would be useful for spot editing photos. Besides, you got the power button pretty darn flush, and looks great that way.)
- iSight 8mp with face tracking (can also double for security and user login recognition), and some software tech to detect basic "gestures" in front of the screen. If they can put you in front of a roller-coaster video, surely they can figure out how to implement gestures with the iSight, even if just simply move windows around, quick-view and zoom.
- ATI HD 5870/5970 w/1gb GDDR5 (dedicated) 'What's with 256mb videoram in modern-day (premium cost) systems? (especially on desktops!)
- Make opticals an "external" accessory, and put a little option when ordering to choose DVD or BlueRay
- 3x USB 3.0 ports. (or Light Peak of that ever see's the light of day.)
- 3G (as an option)
- 1tb drives.
A side-note that is irrelevant...Apple please "smooth" the edges out on the Magic Mouse! it gets painful (just-right of the middle finger) to use after a while!
Point taken
It er... might be?
I did miss that one entirely, it is true - forgot they could do that too lol...
Redesign for better cooling or make it slightly thicker or something wouldn't hurt too much - there are 13" out there with both current processors and discrete graphics after all...
It er... might be?
I did miss that one entirely, it is true - forgot they could do that too lol...
Redesign for better cooling or make it slightly thicker or something wouldn't hurt too much - there are 13" out there with both current processors and discrete graphics after all...
So where do you get those percentages from? Nobody I know that has a laptop, let alone a macbook 13" uses their DVD apart from the first time they buy their computer. They could just include the optical drive as a $99 addon, just like the air.Super idea. So instead of alienating the 1% of users who would be able to tell the difference between C2D and i3, they'll alienate the 95% of users who want an optical drive.
Trust me, that 320M will go entirely unused on most people's 13" macbooks just like the 9400M went unused. I never played a game on mine, why bother when I have a PS3 for home and a PSP to go.
To me any laptop bigger than 13" is a park bench and useless. An imac is pretty much just as portable as 15" and 17" pros, not to mention better looking. The 15 and 17 are hideous with the same size keyboard as the 13 and a TON of wasted space all around.
Apple, at least offer a real 13" pro, put the same hardware in it as the 15" and a higher resolution screen, ditch the DVD, and sell it for the same price as the 15". I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
Might be true also for the MBA. I foresee a late 2010/early 2011 "new 13' portable series" with upgraded/new MB, MBP and MBA. Fits to the end of the C2D production as well.
Agreed, though not expected for another 6 months, if not longer.
Why? Why do you want a 15", 16" and 17" model? That's absurdly complicated. 15" and 17" models are fine.
17" is already 1920x1200 (better than 1080p, which you won't get without going to 16:9, which is not a great plan). 15" has a 1680x1050 option, which is pretty close.
Unnecessary gimmick. Solar cells charging a batter of that type would get very minimal gain in that space. I wouldn't complain if they did (without raising the cost at least), but I can't imagine much benefit from doing so.
This is why I initially started to respond. The reason the trackpad sits a bit away from the edges of the metal (not flush) is because if the glass rubs against the metal, it can develop fractures along the edges, which would eventually lead to chipping or cracking across the entire trackpad. That's bad news. There's a reason Apple set it just a fraction of an inch offset.
No face tracking, no eye movement tracking. It's entirely the wrong approach, because the human mind doesn't function that way. We don't look at something because we want to do something with it, we look at it to figure out what to do with it. Let me use my hands to manipulate objects on screen, not my eyes. It's unnatural and unpleasant.
Eh, maybe, but not at the cost of increased prices or heat. Desktops, yes, I'd love to see that, although again only if it doesn't increase costs. I think there's a reason we haven't seen that on Macs so far (except for one card option in the previous gen Mac Pros).
Nope. They don't take up much space, unless you're going for Air-like thinness, and Blu-Ray isn't likely.
Yes.
Only if the radio supports at least T-Mobile and AT&T (waiting for LTE and supporting the three carriers moving to LTE would be best).
Coming as soon as the drives are readily available (they're still in short supply).
Sorry to do a blow-by-blow, but there's my thoughts on your thoughts.
jW
I see it the other way. Despite it's "Pro" designation, a 13.3" laptop with a 1280x800 resolution would not be a hardcore production machine requiring significant CPU and GPU power for me. This would be the laptop I carry around campus all day (requiring the 10-hour battery) downloading lecture slides, browsing the web, and typing papers. For these tasks, I would hardly notice a boost in processing power, but would definitely appreciate the long battery and small form factor.
But, you're right. If they are going to market it as "professional," then the current generation processor and discrete graphics should be standard. However, for my needs (a non-pro), this laptop is for me.
Thanks Intel
Between your crappy integrated graphics and your lack of USB 3.0 support.....I'm starting to think maybe AMD isn't all that bad of an idea to look into.
-Kevin
Apple seems to agree with you. This was my only real concern about the Intel switch (as opposed to a more generic x86 switch). Intel giveth and Intel taketh away. (Although, I don't mind Apple having to eat that sort of thing now and again since they dish it out too.)
You mentioned the 21.5" iMac using Core 2 Duo. In addition it uses an Nvidia 9400m. We can look at the 13" Mac notebook lineup (13" MBP, 13" MB, 13" MBA) since October 2008, and the Mac mini and 20/21.5" iMac lineup since Early 2009 and see the exact same level of CPUs, GPUs, and chipsets.
Apple uses massive economies of scale to not only buy the products for all five of those Macs, but also to lower the software/OS implementation and development costs for all those devices. One driver gets written for five devices. One set of instructions for h.264 and OpenCL utilization. This is not all about costs, because Apple also has to ensure that one model will work across all five of these devices. So what Steve might have left out, when he explained the 13" MBP graphics reasoning in an email reply, is the fact that the decisions were made based on all five of the devices using this same basic system and not just the 13" MBP itself.
Let's say Apple removed the optical drive from the 13" MBP... could it fit a dedicated graphics card in there? Sure. But could it do the same with the Mac mini and MacBook Air, NOPE! We always look at the 13" MBP or iMac and say why didn't Apple do this??? And what we should be thinking about is how the change or demand we want from this one component will affect and apply to Apple's system of one set of drivers and components to fulfill all five of these products.
The 13" MBP surely tells us what is coming up for the MacBook Air, MacBook, Mac mini, and 21.5" iMac very soon. The 13" MBP is the number one selling Mac, so of course it got the update the fastest. As soon as Apple's supply/production of 13" MBPs is capable of handling demand, I am certain Apple will setup production runs for new MBAs, MBs, Mms, and 21.5" iMacs. Even though the MB, Mm, and iMac were all updated last, they're all going on seven months old already - READY for an update. Don't be surprised when the new 21.5" iMac doesn't have a Core i5 nor dedicated graphics, as I think C2D and new Nvidia 320m fits the "system" better.
With the Core 2 Duos, Apple only has eight months until it has to select a new CPU/graphics system. At that time, Apple is not going to "stick us" with Intel HD as if that was the only choice it would have already done it. So we can expect that Apple is going to AMD/ATI or Apple is figuring out how to make a dedicated card work then (but it will probably not have dual graphics) and will just turn off the Intel GMA IGP because an extra chip is required for the switching which definitely wouldn't fit in the 13" MBP. I suppose that is when Apple could finally lose the optical drives to make way for the graphics systems. Either way, bigger changes are going to happen in late 2010 or early 2011, as the C2D will no longer be available from Intel.
A year old technology? I have the 2.4 C2D in my early 2008 white MB. Costed a fortune back then...Now it's early 2010, I want to replace my MB and... they have same processors in 13"
I believe in the next refresh... will be a major one!
Discrete GPUs than ran cooler than a lot of integrated GPUs today.
When my 486 was top of the line it didn't even need a fan.
The 12" PowerBook (my first Apple laptop) was a nice machine, but drawing comparisons isn't relevant. The hardware is from a different era.
I really wish they'd just drop the damn optical drives from all their Pro machines. Apple doesn't seem to have an issue requiring me to use some kind of adapter or dongle for EVERYTHING ELSE. I wouldn't even care if that entire area was used to house more battery. The optical drives are the most fail prone parts on the machines anyway.
Seriously, who uses their optical drive that much anymore? Since Apple seems to have some moral objection to using BluRay, why not drop the drive entirely?
Posting this from my Sony Vaio Z, i7 2.66, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, and Full HD screen all at 3 pounds. This thing is amazing.
Bottom line, Apple needs to hire some folks from Sony.
Bottom line, Apple needs to hire some folks from Sony.
Wow, someone defending Intel graphics. Something new every day. Intel has tried to get more usage from their IGPs for years and finally have gone the legal route to lock everyone else out. Next thing you know we'll be going back to all shared RAM.
If you want to talk about a typical user *needs* we could have stuck with core2s for pretty much ever.
Super idea. So instead of alienating the 1% of users who would be able to tell the difference between C2D and i3, they'll alienate the 95% of users who want an optical drive.
Where do you get this stat from? 95% of users want an optical drive? Says who? After the typical user loads up their CD collection do you think they keep using the optical drive daily? I can't remember the last time I used mine.
ROFL, I'd love to find a park bench that weighs less than 7lbs. At this point, I've carried my 17" MBP all over the world. I've even used it on airplanes without any trouble. People forget that the 17" is only 1lb more than the 15" and 2lbs more than the 13" while also giving you the 1920x1200 resolution and a lot more screen space.
I think that's what you call PR, as in, Jobs having faith in the products and decisions of Apple.
I agree, remove it. Include an optional 50$ superdrive external. Also bundle the operating system and everything onto a 16 gig or whatever jump drive. Then you can reinstall if you have to. Easy.
Then you have a huge spot to do what needs to be done.
That's a one-time install.
The optical drive is the only large part of my notebook that I don't use all the time.
Compromise can also mean giving up the optical drive for a notebook with 15" MacBook Pro specs in a 13" size. Removing the optical drive from a notebook does not automatically make it a MacBook Air.
(13" MacBook Pro)
Was going to upgrade my 2yr old 13" Unibody MacBook but the only real difference is the graphics. My old MacBook as the same CPU as the new one so i can't quite get my head round upgrading but on the other hand I like to upgrade every 2yrs and sell my old MacBook with a years Applecare which gives me a good price
I agree with getting rid of the superdrive, We are moving away from optical media just like we moved away from Floppy Disks, Apple could supply OSX on a SD-Card or USB Stick, It would also be a good idea if Apple included a Software store on itunes so we could download Apps and games direct like we can for the iPhone etc.
I definately don't want to go bigger than 13" though, for me anything over is just not portable.
I agree with getting rid of the superdrive, We are moving away from optical media just like we moved away from Floppy Disks, Apple could supply OSX on a SD-Card or USB Stick, It would also be a good idea if Apple included a Software store on itunes so we could download Apps and games direct like we can for the iPhone etc.
I definately don't want to go bigger than 13" though, for me anything over is just not portable.
I'd like to see a photo of the Vaio Z logic board, because I sure don't see any space for Arrandale on the 13" MBP.
Then Apple would be in direct competition with Intel, and I don't think they want that. Better to be a third-party that is able to choose the best chips between the two, if necessary.
The quad-core iMacs use Lynnfield cpus, the MBPs use dual-core Arrandale. So there's no competition between the two. I don't even think Arrandale was out yet when the 21.5 iMacs were released, was it?
The only possibility would have been to use Clarksfield cpus. No integrated graphics, so dedicated graphics would have to be used at all times. Between that and the extra power drawn, battery life would be significantly reduced and the systems would run hotter as well.