Anti-Vista Marketing at Apple Stores

[janstett]

Apparently many fail to recognize the reality of corporate marketing. Tens of thousands of dollars are spent on research and test marketing these advertising ideas to various demographic groups before release to the general public. Advertising ideas are quickly scrapped if they're proven ineffective in their goal.

They certainly won't avoid extremely effective advertising if a tiny percentage of people get hurt feelings when the competition gets the truth slammed in their face.

I also took marketing in college. I question the effectiveness of these in-your-face ads. It's one thing to point out your product's virtues in an a-b comparison. It's another to be a 13-year-old about it (e.g. the back and forth wars of the past, such as Coke vs. Pepsi, Ford vs. Chevy, McDonalds vs. Burger King, etc.). It's juvenile, it's negative, it makes consumers uncomfortable, and IMO it leaves a negative halo around the attacker. The objective consumer is generally isolated and turned off by these ads. They don't want to be involved in religious product wars. I question whether it improves anything whatsoever. The only kind of company that can benefit from these are (1) insecure in their market position, and (2) desperate that their product cannot stand on its own merit. Is that what Apple wants to convey?

You don't see Toyota and Honda slugging it out by negatively slandering each other. You see also-rans like Isuzu doing it.

I thought Apple had grown out of this phase. Apparently they were just keeping it in the closet until the time was right to bring it out again. The Mac-vs-PC ads should have been a warning as such, but I think overall we've tolerated them.

If you've found bliss with Apple products (and to a degree I have), do you need to be bombarded with arrogant, snarky advertisements bashing something else, which you also may use and not have a religious hatred for? If you take the Mac for what it is, no. If it is your religion and you define your personal identity through it, yes.

Maybe I'm just getting old but when you talk about "the OS wars", I must admit I snicker just a bit. Did you lose a limb? Of course you didn't... don't take it all so seriously, you'll be a happier person.

That's what they were called in the press, I didn't invent the term. Maybe you're just not into computers to the degree I am (what, a Mac user who doesn't care about other computers? Perish the thought.). Perhaps you can enlighten me with your clinical definition of the time period between the mid 80s and mid 90s when there were more than a dozen competing platforms (CPM, DOS, DR-DOS, AIX, AUX, Xenix, BSD, Solaris, SCO, Netware, Windows, GEM, OS/2, NT, BeOS, Linux, Taligent/Pink, etc.). Do you even know what I'm talking about?

No one should have regrets. Perhaps you shouldn't give them any more blood money.

Perhaps.... so I should be excommunicated from the church now because I'm not a true believer?

Believe me, I think this HURTS Apple and I hate to see it turn back into the petty also-ran that it used to be. I hope they take the high road.

Snicker away, in ignorance of the lessons of the past...

 

[sparky672]

I also took marketing in college. I question the effectiveness of these in-your-face ads. It's one thing to point out your product's virtues in an a-b comparison. It's another to be a 13-year-old about it (e.g. the back and forth wars of the past, such as Coke vs. Pepsi, Ford vs. Chevy, McDonalds vs. Burger King, etc.). It's juvenile, it's negative, it makes consumers uncomfortable, and IMO it leaves a negative halo around the attacker. The objective consumer is generally isolated and turned off by these ads. They don't want to be involved in religious product wars.

Apple has a whole team of college grads with marketing degrees working on these issues. They'd never intentionally run a campaign that hurts their overall market position. They'll spend hundred of thousands of $$$ researching various demographics before proceeding with anything.

And after all that they may still lose a tiny fraction of overly sensitive people, but no campaign will please 100% of the people 100% of the time. That's life.

 

[janstett]

Apple has a whole team of college grads with marketing degrees working on these issues. They'd never intentionally run a campaign that hurts their overall market position. They'll spend hundred of thousands of $$$ researching various demographics before proceeding with anything.

Actually, I think you're revealing some naivete here. Companies don't come up with their own campaigns. They hire external agencies to do it. Sometimes they can suggest a direction, but the ad agency takes it from there. Steve Jobs even said as much when he showed the new unaired iPod ads at MacWorld a few scant weeks ago.

And after all that they may still lose a tiny fraction of overly sensitive people, but no campaign will please 100% of the people 100% of the time. That's life.

Look, I don't want you to think I stay up at nights worrying about this stuff; I can enjoy the train-wreck too and giggle at it. In fact, I could make a sport of it and watch predictively how it backfires against Apple. However, one thing is clear -- the companies that resort to this are generally losers and end up vanquished in the end. I still have my nice collection of OS/2 propoganda shirts including the Nice Try classic, but OS/2 is dead while NT lives on through its descendent Vista. Who is laughting now? Resorting to "kick me" signs in the Apple stores will only help ensure that Apple throws away the gains it has made and give some future former Apple Store employees a similar story to tell in 10 years.

It's low class, desperate, and leaves a foul stench in the air. It works against Apple.

 

[coffey7]

I think Apple needs to rework there image so Business people think an apple would be good for them. They are the people with the big money. When I go on lunch break with my macbook I am encircled by people using IBM thinkpads that are running business programs. After watching some of the recent mac ads, people would think that macs are just for photos and videos. Of course they are not, but they should have some ads with some dudes in suits running a multi billion dollar company with a macbookpro.

A perfect Apple ad would be: A guy with a macbook is running his business while out on lunch and his friend from a rivial company is having his credit card and imformation taken right off his IBM laptop at the same time. Basically show that apples can do anything well and are safer to use without getting owned by hackers who can slice holes in windows like a knife through cheese. You would think Steve Jobs would love this since he hates IBM so much.

 

[sparky672]

Actually, I think you're revealing some naivete here. Companies don't come up with their own campaigns. They hire external agencies to do it. Sometimes they can suggest a direction, but the ad agency takes it from there. Steve Jobs even said as much when he showed the new unaired iPod ads at MacWorld a few scant weeks ago.

That's really nit-picking isn't it? Of course corporate marketing teams hire advertising agencies... sorry I didn't spell out all the detailed steps for you when I just said "marketing department".

And when they're ready to spend all that ca$h on advertising, they'll hire one or more "marketing research" firms. However, in the end, the Apple team (comprised of marketing grads) in charge of marketing will choose and hire the various ad agencies, hire the research firms, and make all the final decisions.

Yeah right, I'm naive.
But then again, I'm not a decorated veteran of the great "OS Wars" either.

I'm just another end-user of Macs, PCs, etc. for the last 22+ years.

 

[matticus008]

Exactly. Imagine if BMW had its salespeople wear shirts saying "Audi Sucks!" or something like that, and sales literature poked at the fact that they're overweight wrong-wheel-drive Volkswagens.

BMW would do well to avoid calling attention to their own weight problems, and they'd never refer to them as wrong-wheel drive VWs because as any car enthusiast knows, VWs are based on Audi components where possible, and not the other way around. They'd be laughed out of their own showrooms.

The problem with comparing Audi and BMW is that they're both upscale, niche markets, and discerning customers won't put up with trivial bickering. They do have a sense of humor, though, so maybe they'd try something like, "Audi: it took them four circles to do what we can with one."

Apple isn't marketing to discerning customers. If you've done an in-depth analysis of the two operating systems from a versed, technical standpoint, you're not going to make your decision based on a 30-second commercial or a T-shirt--you've already made up your decision, or you'll only be swayed by technical discussion. Advertisers know that. Advertising campaigns appeal to baser crowds and educate through entertainment (and negative ads are entertainment).

If you're selling BMWs, you don't need to do it because the merits speak for themselves and the consumer KNOWS what the other guy is up to and can make an intelligent, rational decision on their own.

Exactly. And Apple customers generally are that kind (or are after the "trendy" logo). Advertisers don't care about those people for TV campaigns or t-shirts or posters on the wall. They want the people who aren't invested in the topic and don't really care to be. Those people aren't going to be here reading threads or reading reviews on Ars Technica or making lists of virtues and features for the OSes.

The only way to get those customers to pay attention to substance is to slip it in humor or to dress it up with a celebrity or buzzworthy marketing move. Apple's gone with humor. They've done the other kinds before, and they'll do them again in the future.

 

[Pac a Mac]

Sure, Apple is blowing millions of dollars on advertising just to have a little fun.

You can't be serious.

Sorry missed the bit about them spending millions over the normal budget. "having a little fun" can be read "taking the ****" in this context.

Oh and I can be serious, but not about a rumour on a website

 

[bill4588]

so has anyone gone to the store and seen the advertisements yet?

 

[Alpinism]

The ads will do good to those all too typical trust fund 15 yr old rotten yuppy baby (my cr@p is more expensive than yr cr@p) crowd. Read around, they are plenty of those here. It is funny to see how these kids spent $3000 on a mac pro just to use iLife and have a bragging right.

One of the reasons, why apple is enjoying such new switcher, is the ability to run windows on their machine. Switchers will want to continue running windows/VISTA on their mac. The ads will shine apple a bad light.

The second other big user of the MAC are your video semi-pro/pro production house. This is due to the excellent Final Cut Studio suites. These people would not have a reason wanting to install Windows.

Which one do YOU belong in?

 

[Turkish]

I was in my local store today.

The employees have shirts that say "Go Beyond Vista" on the front and "Time to get a Mac" on the back.

Hardly the libelous attacks so many here are whining about.

There was no signage or any other displays in the store...

 

[sparky672]

I was in my local store today.

The employees have shirts that say "Go Beyond Vista" on the front and "Time to get a Mac" on the back.

Hardly the libelous attacks so many here are whining about.

There was no signage or any other displays in the store...

Another bloody OS War successfully diverted. Hooray! I can sleep soundly tonight knowing my reputation and virtue as a responsible member of the Mac community remains untarnished by wicked attacks on Windows.

Seriously though, I'm a little disappointed they're not going harder for Vista's jugular.

 

[Maxx Power]

Corporate giants make marketing decisions only after months of careful research. Anything else would be about as wise as setting stacks of $100 bills on fire.

Yeah, like Agent Orange and Posilac, XFL, Sony Xplode Batteries, Dell's Dump of "Recycled" computers on third world countries using prison labour, Lipitor, Prozac (more than 1 in 10 suicide rate after using it, class action lawsuit, so on).....

Giant corporations wouldn't have giant PR departments with a giant fleet of lawyers if it didn't make any giant mistakes.

The point is, any corporation is as short sighted as you or me, trusting them to make the "right" decisions have disastrous effects as history have proven. You should decide for yourself if attacking someone else can really accomplish anything after reducing yourself to their level, regardless who's doing it.

 

[Maxx Power]

Another bloody OS War successfully diverted. Hooray! I can sleep soundly tonight knowing my reputation and virtue as a responsible member of the Mac community remains untarnished by wicked attacks on Windows.

Seriously though, I'm a little disappointed they're not going harder for Vista's jugular.

Vista is too bloated. Don't like giant monolithic OS's like that.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, ones with DRM infection and phones home by itself.

 

[sparky672]

Corporate giants make marketing decisions only after months of careful research. Anything else would be about as wise as setting stacks of $100 bills on fire.

Yeah, like Agent Orange and Posilac, XFL, Sony Xplode Batteries, Dell's Dump of "Recycled" computers on third world countries using prison labour, Lipitor, Prozac (more than 1 in 10 suicide rate after using it, class action lawsuit, so on).....

The point is, any corporation is as short sighted as you or me, trusting them to make the "right" decisions have disastrous effects as history have proven. You should decide for yourself if attacking someone else can really accomplish anything after reducing yourself to their level, regardless who's doing it.

And when did I ever say that after careful research the outcome is always 100% perfect and there's never a failure? Right or wrong, pass or fail... when money is at stake, the decisions are not made hastily.

 

[mrat93]

My bad... sorry about that bad link before

Individual links:

Poster:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/mrat93/get-attachment.jpg

Shirt front: (iMac symbol) "Go beyond Vista."
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/mrat93/get-attachment-1.jpg

Shirt back: "It's time to get a Mac."
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/mrat93/get-attachment-2.jpg

 

[Maxx Power]

And when did I ever say that after careful research the outcome is always 100% perfect and there's never a failure? Right or wrong, pass or fail... when money is at stake, the decisions are not made hastily.

Sure, but whether or not they make money doesn't correspond to what an individual would consider to be the "right" choice. They can, will and have made money at the price of consumer suffering, but if it makes $, they will do it. You are saying that they occasionally make tactical mistakes, which they do. But i'm saying that even if they think its not a mistake, backed by research, doesn't mean it is necessarily not a mistake from a non-money driven perspective. Take a look at the whole DRM fiasco for example, and the examples I have already mentioned. Posilac will eventually have you and your kids develop infections that traditional antibacterial medicine won't work.
That's making money at the cost of lives despite the fact it doesn't help farmers, or the users, yet it is deemed a correct corporate decision by a giant.

The bottom line is, I was taught to be a graceful winner and respect those who are different, and not to provoke them. I don't think Apple is setting a good example for my kids, or other people's kids, with or without iPods.

 

[sparky672]

The bottom line is, I was taught to be a graceful winner and respect those who are different, and not to provoke them. I don't think Apple is setting a good example for my kids, or other people's kids, with or without iPods.

You had me right up until that last part. Apple is corrupting your kids?! They're selling computers for Gosh sakes! And doing it without T & A, no jokes about sex or homosexuality, no violence, no blood, no rap lyrics... Just using clever humor loosely based on fact.

They say "Mac is easier to use than Windows", "Switch to Mac", "Avoid Vista", and you think that's bad for your kids?

Please be very specific in what part of Apple's campaign you seem to be so ashamed.

 

[Maxx Power]

You had me right up until that last part. Apple is corrupting your kids?! They're selling computers for Gosh sakes! And doing it without T & A, no jokes about sex or homosexuality, no violence, no blood, no rap lyrics... Just using clever humor loosely based on fact.

They say "Mac is easier to use than Windows", "Switch to Mac", "Avoid Vista", and you think that's bad for your kids?

Please be very specific in what part of Apple's campaign you seem to be so ashamed.

Okay, if you want specifics. "Avoid Vista" for example and "Beyond Vista", translating to kids language - "he's inferior", "avoid him", and "he's different". Those quotes you made aren't very sensitive to us since we're grown up with crap like that, and learned one way or another to deal with it. For kids, that sets a bad example. It is very prejudicial if you ask me. Especially since Apple is not including any reasons why and on what specifics OS X is better than windows. I guess whoever has already grown up in this environment wouldn't find this surprising. However, I'm certain I don't want my kids to grow up criticizing others while having no merits, and to be prejudicial. My kids will have to learn the hard lesson that what is okay between the corporations is not okay between individuals, and no one should be treated as such.

Even then, it doesn't make it better than windows as a "whole OS". Just specific features, and only if you make use of those features. For one, sufficiency seems to be the key for a lot of windows users, that as long as it functions, its fine.

Blood and violence are part of life, as conflict is a part of life. But the important thing is to learn to resolve conflicts without violence before being exposed to blood and violence . Homosexuality ? I'm impartial to that, how someone choses to gather his/her pleasures is up to them, just to have them remember, that if you want to pass on your genes, you'll eventually have to find a heterosexual partner.

Back to the topic at hand, I think the entire corporate culture is corrupting, not must my, but entire generations of children, and I think there are many good reasons to believe so.

ps. almost forgot to mention, all those Mac vs. Pc commercials were very very stereotypical, and the latest ones are in particular degrading for windows users who respect mac users.

 

[zblaxberg]

um does anyone have picture proof of any of this and can you post it??

 

[sparky672]

Okay, if you want specifics. "Avoid Vista" for example and "Beyond Vista", translating to kids language - "he's inferior", "avoid him", and "he's different". Those quotes you made aren't very sensitive to us since we're grown up with crap like that, and learned one way or another to deal with it. For kids, that sets a bad example. It is very prejudicial if you ask me. Especially since Apple is not including any reasons why and on what specifics OS X is better than windows. I guess whoever has already grown up in this environment wouldn't find this surprising. However, I'm certain I don't want my kids to grow up criticizing others while having no merits, and to be prejudicial. My kids will have to learn the hard lesson that what is okay between the corporations is not okay between individuals, and no one should be treated as such.

Even then, it doesn't make it better than windows as a "whole OS". Just specific features, and only if you make use of those features. For one, sufficiency seems to be the key for a lot of windows users, that as long as it functions, its fine.

...

ps. almost forgot to mention, all those Mac vs. Pc commercials were very very stereotypical, and the latest ones are in particular degrading for windows users who respect mac users.

Wow.

Get a grip... it's just an operating system... one that 90+% of the world uses. Oops did I just say something too mean about it? Maybe the poor Vista children are reading this?

And I think you may have insulted a few minority groups by saying that the slogan "Beyond Vista" is the same as being prejudicial.

prejudice- (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

 

[Maxx Power]

Wow.

No wait, I get it now. Everyone is a winner. There are no losers.

That's real life.

Get a grip... it's just an operating system... one that 90+% of the world uses. Oops did I just say something too mean about it? Maybe the poor Vista children are reading this?

And I think you may have insulted a few minority groups by saying that the slogan "Beyond Vista" is the same as being prejudicial.

I'm sorry, but if I claim to be better than you and provide no proof, because there can't empirically be any, by definition, and the only thing that does exist is that I'm different than you, that wouldn't be prejudice ? If i said "Avoid Sparky" because I'm better, with no proof, except that you are different than me, that wouldn't be prejudice ?

 

[sparky672]

I'm sorry, but if I claim to be better than you and provide no proof, because there can't empirically be any, by definition, and the only thing that does exist is that I'm different than you, that wouldn't be prejudice ? If i said "Avoid Sparky" because I'm better, with no proof, except that you are different than me, that wouldn't be prejudice ?

I wonder why you seem so very angry and hurt that Vista is being criticized.

However Vista's criticism may be based on real experiences. Prejudice, by definition, is based on nothing but thin air. Whether or not you can measure or prove anything has little to do with the word. All you have to prove is that you tried the product... once tried, your opinions are no longer preconceived from thin air... then you're no longer prejudiced, you're just being critical of it.

prejudice- (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion:

"Preconceived" meaning you formed the negative opinion without having ever used Vista.

prejudice- (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics:

Since Vista has been released and people can try it, opinions have not been "formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge". It further describes irrational personal hostility towards groups of people. Vista is not a group of people, it's a product.

 

[Maxx Power]

I wonder why you seem so very angry and hurt that Vista is being criticized.

However Vista's criticism may be based on real experiences. Prejudice, by definition, is based on nothing but thin air. Whether or not you can measure or prove anything has little to do with the word. All you have to prove is that you tried the product... once tried, your opinions are no longer preconceived from thin air... then you're no longer prejudiced, you're just being critical of it.

prejudice- (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion:

"Preconceived" meaning you formed the negative opinion without having ever used Vista.

prejudice- (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics:

Since Vista has been released and people can try it, opinions have not been "formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge". It further describes irrational personal hostility towards groups of people. Vista is not a group of people, it's a product.

I'm not trying to portray myself as angry because of this or that, vista or not.

It doesn't matter if you tried the product, if I had interactions with black people and use that as an excuse to say they are "this" or "that" and justify it using my so called interactions with them, that's an unfair generalization. If you feel that vista has features which are of particular importance to you which are inferior to Apple's implementation, and with good proof, then that particular feature is then justified as inferior, but that in noway justifies the saying "Beyond Vista" and so on.

If you read those reviews of Vista, you'll see they try to rate it using categories, whether or not against the current OS X. Apple is pushing to the consumers, who are not the likely candidates of walking encyclopedias on modern operating systems an idea that "OS X is beyond Vista", and all without conclusive evidence of being so. That idea then becomes preconceived notion in people's minds about vista and os x, and then the consumers fall prey to basic marketing. You actually think Apple's trying to recruit existing Vista users ? Apple is targeting "would-be" vista users, who otherwise would have bought Vista machines. These users cannot possibly form an educated opinion about an operating system they have not themselves used.

Numerous studies, by marketers and exactly the opposite (those who point out problems with our current market) have shown, repeatedly that people will blindly make purchasing decisions based on one-sided ads because they instill an preconceived notion. Sony's walkman used to be a walking success of that ideal. Nike's shoes, also. Some of the market studies found that most people actually bought a specific brand of an item, with absolutely no prior experience with it, just preconceived notions from Ads.

"an uninformed consumer is an ideal consumer" puts this situation the best way possible. "FUD" is another excellent term.

 

[EricNau]

Links don't work.

Here:

Individual links:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/mrat93/get-attachment.jpg


http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/mrat93/get-attachment-1.jpg


http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/mrat93/get-attachment-2.jpg

 

[mrat93]

Here, these are right.

Sorry about the screw-up before.
Individual links:

Poster:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/mrat93/get-attachment.jpg

Shirt front: (iMac symbol) "Go beyond Vista."
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/mrat93/get-attachment-1.jpg

Shirt back: "It's time to get a Mac."
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/mrat93/get-attachment-2.jpg