Antitrust Investigation of Apple Led Nortel Patent Purchase

[mazz0]

I just don't fundamentally 'get' this anti-trust stuff at all...

We live in a capitalist society. Its dog eat dog out there, but you guys (talking as a Brit to you US guys and girls over there...) really have this communist, lefty stance towards anti-competitiveness when it comes to some aspects of business.

Why not let companies screw each other over, isn't this the most fundamental rules of a capitalist society. He who dares wins, etc...

Because capitalism is far from perfect and unrestricted would be bloody awful. Remember the goal of a capitalist company is to destroy the competition and have a monopoly so they can make themself rich at everybody else's expense.

It's just the same here in Britain/Europe anyway, the EU vs Microsoft is evidence for that!

 

[darkplanets]

You don't see an issue with one group being able to have the other players withdraw from the market because they hold key patents? You don't understand patents at all.

They don't have all the key patents. Nokia has the lion's share of mobile patents for future generation devices. Furthermore, regulators could just demand that the IP be licensed at FRAND in order for the deal to go through-- that of course would be under the pretense anyways that the consortium would therefore deny any new licenses to said IP-- something that's highly unlikely given the nature of many the patents ("technical") over "design" related ones (like many of Apple's). Money is money-- regardless of what the regulators think, it's likely that they'll license anyways.

Think of the patent pool as a bargaining chip for cross licensing agreements.

 

[Huhn]

Most of the people bitching here against google, never used an android devide.
same goes for ios devices and apple.
Competition is always good! For everybody because it makes companys work harder.
I used to own an android device but i am currently using an iphone4.
It´s good but still I think ios 5.0 is a huge disappointement, when you compare it to android 3.0+ (especially on tablets)
Next device will be an android again....keep the competition going!

 

[HyperZboy]

There's a reason Paypal sued Google. Google has absolutely no ethics.

Are you kidding me?

Someone is actually defending the corrupt monopolistic Ebay/Paypal system?

Why do you think Ebay accepts few forms of payment outside of Paypal?

Because they make money on both ends of the transaction and control the system.

Why do you think Ebay purchased an interest in Craigslist?

To protect the closed Ebay/Paypal system and see what the competition is up to.

Oh, and Ebay chose not to accept Google's payment system. How convenient.

If we want to argue ethics here, we might be here for years arguing! LOL

Oh, and I'm not even defending Google here. I'm just pointing out that's a very bad comparison to prove an ethics point! LOL

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Most of the people bitching here against google, never used an android devide.
same goes for ios devices and apple.
Competition is always good! For everybody because it makes companys work harder.
I used to own an android device but i am currently using an iphone4.
It´s good but still I think ios 5.0 is a huge disappointement, when you compare it to android 3.0+ (especially on tablets)
Next device will be an android again....keep the competition going!

Have both GingerBread and iOS 4. Prefer iOS for somethings and GingerBread for others. Overall for me, it is iOS presently. Though that might change down the road.

 

[dethmaShine]

I may have missed what you are trying to say here but you should remember that many of the UI elements on the Desire HD are a part of HTC Sense and not Android as an OS.

I have used the Desire and I did buy Nexus S for a university project in January this year.[oops - not that I'm a university student. ] I was probably one of the first in line out of a Vodafone store to get one so I my argument still stands correct for all the propositions I've stated.

The only difference with sense is that the UI controls are now more glossy. The core still belongs to Android which in my opinion was an iOS rip-off.

To be honest, I don't really mind an Android phone at the moment cause the other phone I'm using still doesn't have good applications and applications for my use - HTC Mozart7. But I don't want another iPhone ripoff shoved up in front of me and then tells me that it's original. At least I have a phone that does not lag.

Maybe I have some strong feelings towards Android but that doesn't necessarily void the context and the argument just because they are strong. I have an opinion and I do think that Android is a very sad rip-off.

Hats off to Microsoft for such an awesome and a different operating system.

 

[a.gomez]

Yet.

People use Windows because everyone else uses Windows. People are sheep.

same argument people use for iPad and iPhone - usually does not paint the entire picture

 

[radiohead14]

It's their own stupidity for the spot they are in and their Android system blows anyway. It's fragmented and bloated and has no eco-system or direction.

is there an orientation where newbie kids get spoon fed this mantra of blurting out "fragmentation" and "eco-system"? i swear this phrase gets rehashed here over and over again. i have a MacBook Pro as my main computer and a Win 7 PC, but guess what.. i use an android phone as well. i have all my email, music, storage, documents, and media all sync'd up nicely. so i don't know why you think there's a lack of an "eco-system". is it because it's not all tied to iTunes?.. "fragmentation"? i call it as having options, and it's the manufacturers and carriers who are to blame for the few that get screwed over with updates.. not Android OS itself.

i don't understand why some of you put so much personal/emotional investment in a piece of gadget. use whatever works for you. it's not like these companies are paying you to defend their products. i don't recall this much close mindedness when i first joined here.

 

[dethmaShine]

Are you kidding me?

Someone is actually defending the corrupt monopolistic Ebay/Paypal system?

Why do you think Ebay accepts few forms of payment outside of Paypal?

Because they make money on both ends of the transaction and control the system.

Why do you think Ebay purchased an interest in Craigslist?

To protect the closed Ebay/Paypal system and see what the competition is up to.

If we want to argue ethics here, we might be here for years arguing! LOL

No buddy! I don't defend the paypal system. There are companies that manipulate in business. All of them do it. Apple, Ebay, Amazon.... every one does it. But have a look at the paypal-suit and tell me what you think. Not saying that everything is true as the courts are meant to decide that but there's hardly any false statement in that. On another note - Google does it whenever they want to - however they want to. Whether its the iPhone, skyhook, Android, Paypal - Google is just the same.

 

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Nexus S Build/GRJ22) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

I do agree with you dethmaShine on WP7. The originality and design is like no other and it's nice to see Microsoft push something so new. It's a shame to see WP7 struggling as it is but I have faith that the Nokia deal will help immensely (in Europe at least).

 

[assb10yr05]

They regulators should first begin by figuring out how much of Android is copied from iOS and strip it of all those features.

 

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Nexus S Build/GRJ22) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

They regulators should first begin by figuring out how much of Android is copied from iOS and strip it of all those features.

Features like?

 

[radiohead14]

There's a reason Paypal sued Google. Google has absolutely no ethics.

i find it funny that you put PayPal and ethics in the same statement.

 

[dethmaShine]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Nexus S Build/GRJ22) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

I do agree with you dethmaShine on WP7. The originality and design is like no other and it's nice to see Microsoft push something so new. It's a shame to see WP7 struggling as it is but I have faith that the Nokia deal will help immensely (in Europe at least).

Just to support them, I bought 2 more Mozart7s for my mom and my aunt.
(I had to buy them anyway )

 

[unlinked]

Google+ is far better than Facebook, except for the current lack of users. Google+, with Circles, replaces twitter, facebook, and linkedin.

I mean, if you want to say that Android is not coming out with original stuff, what does that make what Apple is coming out with?

I can see Google+ replacing Facebook , Twitter and blogs but Linkedin?

 

[unlinked]

Tell me I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

 

[Azathoth]

What??? If Google was threatened don't you think they would/should have taken the bidding a little more seriously and not bid numbers like Pi and Avogadro's number (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/02/us-dealtalk-nortel-google-idUSTRE76104L20110702)?

So Google is not allowed to "think different"?

This thread is high on bigotry.

 

[dethmaShine]

You are wrong.

Right.

 

[dashiel]

Yeah, I'm not saying he stole it. Just saying it was xerox that came up with the first GUI type interface. Lots of companies use it, but didn't come up with it.

And Xerox lifted a of lot of ideas from Doug Englebart’s work at SRI, who was inspired by Bush’s Memex designs, which in turn borrowed ideas from Dialexis and I’m sure a whole host of works that I’m forgetting/unaware of. There are no original ideas, just building on the work that has come before.

The problem I have with Android is the lack of imagination in it the overall user interface. It has some really clever ideas, but as a whole it’s far more derivative of iOS than the MacOS was of Xerox’s Altair/STAR systems. When you compare that to Windows Phone Series 7 and WebOS, the derivative nature of Android becomes even more obvious. WebOS and WPS7 both tackle the problems of small screens in ways that show they either had considerably philosophical differences with how iOS works or they simply didn’t want to be compared to iOS.

I was really disappointed when Matt Duarte left Palm for Google and the result seems to be the hugely underwhelming and naive Honeycomb UI at least I understand he worked on it.

Now over the last week we’ve seen some radical shifts in Google’s approach to UX/UI. They may have started to realize the importance of having an engaging and emotive UI. Perhaps we’ll see a unified Android UI in 4.0. Bad news for the OEM’s though and probably a sign Google is going to become the new Nokia, perhaps going so far as to acquire HTC. You can see some OEM’s already aware of this; Motorola has been quietly acquiring companies that basically show they’re creating their own OS. It will fail and Moto will probably go out of business or again maybe get acquired by Google.

Ironically Android’s best chance to remain a “premium” brand could be Adobe and Flash. If Adobe ever manages to get Flash running well without qualifications it’s the only other significantly large developer base that understands the intricacies of creating delightful experiences. The cross-pollination between Flash developers and OS X developers during the early years of both Flash and OS X is abundant – in fact the original OS X dock was actually written in Lingo, which I know isn’t Flash, but is illustrative of the type of developer needed for mobile app development.

Of course Google might not want to be a premium brand at all. Free powerful phones for everyone might be exactly what they want.

 

[Macs In LA]

Buuuuut....

Google gives away their OS in order to get market share. That is pretty anti-competitive as well.

Now Google has to pay for the IP that is contained in the OS they give away. Seems like there is actually a market being established here, not an anti-competitive practice.

 

[koruki]

You buy some patents, you get investigated.

You use some patents, you get sued.

You just can't win. Sigh

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

What do you mean late? Android still doesn't support GUI Acceleration? What's the point? The iPhone's hardware limited multi-tasking and battery was more important to Apple's core idea then. They were late - but they never copied any multi-tasking implementation. On android, it just looks like Symbian. Tell me I'm wrong.

I'd like to say otherwise, but you still don't get it. yg17 isn't saying Google has a monopoly on innovation or that everything Apple does is a copy. His entire point was that the people saying Apple is the hugely innovative company to Google's complete lack of innovative capability is downright laughable.

I just wonder why Google is trying to be in the phone business anyway. They seem to have their fingers in too many pies lately. I think they would be better off just staying in the search, advertising and map businesses.

I think they are. All of the stuff they do is to serve up more/better ads.

Well, then you shouldn't talk about it. It's a freaking copy of Facebook. From suggestion - to wall - to likes and comments UI design.

Seriously? I cannot believe you for saying that. The screenshots clearly reveal that its a pathetic Facebook ripoff.

Except it's not. I have Google+, I have facebook. Google+ is not a copy of facebook.

I can see Google+ replacing Facebook , Twitter and blogs but Linkedin?

For networking with current colleagues, having a Work Circle eliminates the need for linkedin. The thing linkedin has now is the ability for companies to look for new employees (making Monster irrelevant). My statement could just be a byproduct of thinking linkedin shares are massively overbought.

 

[cmaier]

Except it's not. I have Google+, I have facebook. Google+ is not a copy of facebook.

Sure it is.

1) both have three columns, with a top row of menu-type stuff.
2) the left column of both includes contacts for chat,and the ability to navigate to different "feeds."
3) the center column of both has a "wall" (or "stream"). Just like facebook, each entry has a thumbnail photo on the top left, a top row listing the name of the person who posted, and underneath lists the actual feed. Facebook has links for "like - comment - share" and google has links for "+1 - comment - share," in each case on the bottom of the entry.
4) google, like facebook, puts a "share what's new" on the top (changing the words from facebook's "what's on your mind." Innovative.
5) The box where you enter status updates is very similar

Those are just the massive similarities that jump out at me on the first page, and none of those things have to be that way - google intentionally looks a lot like facebook.

 

[organerito]

Yet.



The function of a patent is to have something you created or purchased that your competition does not have. If you can't use a patent to produce a better product and run your competition into the ground, patents are meaningless.



People use Windows because everyone else uses Windows. People are sheep.

That's why people call all MP3 players and "iPod" even if they not made by Apple. Are people who buy and an iPhone and/or an ipod sheep too? Let me guess, those people who buy Applestuff, are cool, yeah cool man.

 

[Kwill]

I'm sure we can come to some sort of agreement

Mr. Google, we certainly appreciate the Google maps app we co-developed, which you then spread on the Android platform. It is also remarkable how much you have "flattered" us with the Android phones. Apple is preparing to become a leader in 4G technology. Certainly, you wish to come along.

With respect to our recent patent portfolio acquisition, you may license specific technologies we deem appropriate (after our lawyers and technicians have fully digested them). As you know, they were quite expensive, so licensing fees won't be cheap. We are both aware you have deep pockets. We don't expect you to touch your toes, but be prepared to reach your ankles.​