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Antivirus...Do you use it?

Forget the multiple user accounts - what a pain. Definitely not necessary.

I do not run any anti-virus on Mac. I dual boot via Boot Camp into Windows. In Windows, I run one app only. I never download "fun" apps or anything while in Windows. I use it for a VB app and I go back to OS X.

Basically, your Mac is safe. If you Boot Camp Windows, either do not download anything questionable or use an anti-virus program in Windows only.
 
Scottsdale said:
Forget the multiple user accounts - what a pain. Definitely not necessary.

I do not run any anti-virus on Mac. I dual boot via Boot Camp into Windows. In Windows, I run one app only. I never download "fun" apps or anything while in Windows. I use it for a VB app and I go back to OS X.

Basically, your Mac is safe. If you Boot Camp Windows, either do not download anything questionable or use an anti-virus program in Windows only.
Click to expand...

why forget multiple user accounts??? its not a pain i have had it on my MBP ever since i bought it. i find it very secure, knowing that there will always be the need for the Admin password to make any changes to the system. if somebody gets my password, no biggy.. all they can do is modify my account. they cant delete anything else.

with regards to Bootcamp, as long as you dont use a program like MacDrive or that 3something program you will be fine. Windows cannot natively read Mac HD's, the programs i listed allow read/write access. just make sure that everything is safe * backed up and your sweet :)
 
MacDrive can be configured only to allow read access to HFS+ formatted discs. Only pain is you get a fugging annoying pop up bubble thingy informing you of the fact everytime you boot up Windows. There must be a way of disabling those things ("something was just connected"...wow, I didn't realise that I just leaned round the back of the iMac and plugged a USB drive in !) but I've never got around to finding it.
 
On my Mac - no, never have.

On my work desktop and laptop (both running XP) - absolutely, they would disintegrate within minutes otherwise.
 
DoFoT9 said:
why forget multiple user accounts??? its not a pain i have had it on my MBP ever since i bought it. i find it very secure, knowing that there will always be the need for the Admin password to make any changes to the system. if somebody gets my password, no biggy.. all they can do is modify my account. they cant delete anything else.

with regards to Bootcamp, as long as you dont use a program like MacDrive or that 3something program you will be fine. Windows cannot natively read Mac HD's, the programs i listed allow read/write access. just make sure that everything is safe * backed up and your sweet :)
Click to expand...

Whatever makes you happy. But I want the admin account. If I were letting others use the Mac, sure, I would want it so they could not install stuff. But there is NO WAY I would ever use multiple accounts or expect anyone else to use multiple accounts. Seriously, everytime you want to update it or want to install a program you log out, log back in, log back out, and log back in just to go from standard to admin to standard. That is not safety in my opinion, it's a hassle!
 
jbstew32 said:
oh ok. sorry for the misinformation then :)

I was speaking from my unix/linux experience more than anything. I wasn't aware that OSX still required a password. I guess that's because Admin accounts still aren't actually root accounts?
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The root user is disabled by default in OS X as a safety precaution. You can enable it, and Apple document how here. Most of the time though, it's unnecessary and for the majority of tasks that one would login to root for on *nix, you can just use sudo for in OS X instead. :)
 
I do, but...

I do use some AV software - specifically a set of Intego tools (VirusBarrier, NetBarrier and Personal Antispam) but that's only because my school insists any laptops connected to their network have AV software. As a Mac user, I refused to, so they pay for my license. :)

My parents were using Mac's since before I was born, and I recently took it upon myself to see just how many files (they back up everything) had Windows viruses from the past 15 or so years. Although it took almost half a day to scan everything, I found an incredible statistic that shows just how many Windows viruses get onto the Mac...

ONE!!!
 
Scottsdale said:
Seriously, everytime you want to update it or want to install a program you log out, log back in, log back out, and log back in just to go from standard to admin to standard. That is not safety in my opinion, it's a hassle!
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Except that isn't how the process works. If you want to install something, or change something as a normal user, it will give you a password prompt. Type in the name and password of an admin and bingo, it's done. No logging out and back in.
 
Scottsdale said:
Whatever makes you happy. But I want the admin account. If I were letting others use the Mac, sure, I would want it so they could not install stuff. But there is NO WAY I would ever use multiple accounts or expect anyone else to use multiple accounts.
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it makes me extremely happy :) i know that to some extent, my computer is safer than pretty much 95% of the rest of the computing community.

Seriously, everytime you want to update it or want to install a program you log out, log back in, log back out, and log back in just to go from standard to admin to standard. That is not safety in my opinion, it's a hassle!
Click to expand...

thats not how it works.. it works exactly the same as an admin account for all software apart from OS updates or updates to the original "Applications" folder applications. if there is an iTunes update, you go into Software Updater, hit update, type in the password & username and its all done.. there is no need to loging in and out.
 
You dont need it. Macs dont need it. and when the new Apple Operating Sytem "Snow Leopard" comes out in 4 months you wont need Antivirus even more. End of story.
 
kastenbrust said:
You dont need it. Macs dont need it. and when the new Apple Operating Sytem "Snow Leopard" comes out in 4 months you wont need Antivirus even more. End of story.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Also still think multiple user accounts is a waste of time and rather stupid/pointless when there is only one person using the computer. I really don't care/see any point no matter how "easy" it is. Good luck to whoever thinks that is going to secure a system if there's only one person using it.
 
Scottsdale said:
Agreed.

Also still think multiple user accounts is a waste of time and rather stupid/pointless when there is only one person using the computer. I really don't care/see any point no matter how "easy" it is. Good luck to whoever thinks that is going to secure a system if there's only one person using it.
Click to expand...

I know that Administrator accounts aren't nearly as robust as an actual root account, but they still carry more power over the OS, right?

I think the idea is to prevent anything too bad from happening if you inadvertently run malicious code. Assuming admin accounts really do have that much more privileges than regular accounts, software could run in a hidden terminal and do damage without the user even knowing it.

It's not so much that you're trying to keep an actual person from physically walking up and using your computer as an Administrator and screwing it up.

does anybody know specifically what admin accounts can do vs normal users and root? I've tried google to no avail.
 
I use ClamXav. I once downloaded a free trial of MacScan but the program didn’t detect anything in the 30 days I had it, so I ended up deleting it. But as a long time PC user before buying my MacBook, I just don’t feel comfortable not having some kind of AV on the computer. Plus, as Macs become more popular, who knows if things will eventually change. So I just like to have something.
 
hpcf28 said:
I use ClamXav. I once downloaded a free trial of MacScan but the program didn’t detect anything in the 30 days I had it, so I ended up deleting it. But as a long time PC user before buying my MacBook, I just don’t feel comfortable not having some kind of AV on the computer. Plus, as Macs become more popular, who knows if things will eventually change. So I just like to have something.
Click to expand...

The Operating System doesnt need an antivirus even if every person in the world used a Mac.
 
r.j.s said:
No, it couldn't.

The os still asks for the admin password, even if the user is an admin. It's standard unix security.
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so if an admin account has write privileges to some important directory and you do 'rm -rf /important/directory' or 'chmod -R 777 /important/data/here' in a terminal, you're saying it would make you enter a password again to make sure you want to do that? no. If the user has permission, standard unix security (as far as I've ever experienced) is to let that action happen, no questions asked. I'm not talking about trying to drag some software program to the trash in the OS X gui. I'm talking about shell commands.

that's why I'm curious as to what the admin accounts are actually capable of. I can't seem to find it! from what I can tell, it looks like they aren't much more than glorified user accounts...meaning all they can do is change "System Preferences" and install/remove software. If that's the case, then yeah, I 100% agree that creating a normal user account is kind of pointless.

if admin accounts have any extra privileges that could be exploited and used to do something malicious or give a cracker access to the system, it would make perfect sense to have an extra normal user account.

I said I couldn't find any specifics on actual privileges, but I've read similar statements to this on various security websites:

The administrator is a less powerful user than root but a more powerful user than any individual user on the system. Administrators can do things such as install system-wide software, create users, and alter system settings and preferences. In simplistic terms, the administrator account can do most of the tasks that root can do but with a few but critical limitations. The most important is that it cannot directly modify, add, or delete OS X system level files, the core files that make up the operating system. Although an administrator can access the directories and files of a normal user, the administrator still needs to authenticate themselves via the administrator username and password. The same holds true for some tasks such as making changes to the system. The Administration Account should only be used to install software and to setup/configure your Mac. You should use a "User" account for daily use, even if you are the only user on your Mac.
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it should be noted that a normal account can't su directly to root, whereas an admin account can.


I'm of the opinion that it's not stupid or overly cautious to create an extra account and run as a normal user. After all, if it prompts you to enter the admin password again anyway, what difference does it make to the end user anyway? either way you have to type it in again.
 
not being judgemental, but there are a lot of misconceptions on here... i am a relatively new (first year still) mac user, but did a ton of research before moving to the dark side, and not needing anti-virus was one of the key reasons for switching...
as of today - it just isn't required and neither is logging in/out, alternative users, and other (possibly windows influenced) paranoia

it's a shame that apple are too frightened to come out and make some definitive statements about the unix architecture and the security / robustness etc

sort of understand why (especially with US litigious culture) but i am sure they could think of something to say...

or maybe they have and i can't find it...

enlightening thread though - in many ways...
 
virtuosity said:
or maybe they have and i can't find it...
Click to expand...

http://www.apple.com/getamac/faq/
"Is a Mac reliable?"
"Are Mac computers secure?"


Scottsdale said:
Agreed.

Also still think multiple user accounts is a waste of time and rather stupid/pointless when there is only one person using the computer. I really don't care/see any point no matter how "easy" it is. Good luck to whoever thinks that is going to secure a system if there's only one person using it.
Click to expand...

Actually he doesn't realize that OSX will require admin password for software install,
even when running Admin account.
 
jbstew32 said:
so if an admin account has write privileges to some important directory and you do 'rm -rf /important/directory' or 'chmod -R 777 /important/data/here' in a terminal, you're saying it would make you enter a password again to make sure you want to do that? no. If the user has permission, standard unix security (as far as I've ever experienced) is to let that action happen, no questions asked. I'm not talking about trying to drag some software program to the trash in the OS X gui. I'm talking about shell commands.

that's why I'm curious as to what the admin accounts are actually capable of. I can't seem to find it! from what I can tell, it looks like they aren't much more than glorified user accounts...meaning all they can do is change "System Preferences" and install/remove software. If that's the case, then yeah, I 100% agree that creating a normal user account is kind of pointless.

if admin accounts have any extra privileges that could be exploited and used to do something malicious or give a cracker access to the system, it would make perfect sense to have an extra normal user account.

I said I couldn't find any specifics on actual privileges, but I've read similar statements to this on various security websites:

it should be noted that a normal account can't su directly to root, whereas an admin account can.

I'm of the opinion that it's not stupid or overly cautious to create an extra account and run as a normal user. After all, if it prompts you to enter the admin password again anyway, what difference does it make to the end user anyway? either way you have to type it in again.
Click to expand...

You are right about command line abilities. When you are an administrator, it makes you a member of the Unix admin group. This does two things: (1) you are now able to run sudo (%admin ALL=(ALL) ALL is in /etc/sudoers) which, I assume, is how Apple handles the whole "enter an administrator's username and password to do X" and (2) you can modify anything that has group write permission for admin. A quick ls -l /Applications shows that most apps are owned by root:admin with rwxrwxr-x permission. I verified that I can add files into an app bundle from my administrator-level account without any need to authenticate and cannot from a non-administrator account. This means that an adversary could at the very least change apps for nefarious purposes. Not a virus, but still potentially dangerous.

I also tested having a non-admin account run either su or sudo. Non-admin accounts just get "su: Sorry" when running su. And since they are not a member of the Unix admin group they get "xxx is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported." when they run sudo. By default root has an undefined password so su won't work at all (Ubuntu Linux installs are done the same way) but if an admin does a sudo passwd root then any admin user (with the root password) can now become root.

I'm with you that it it can make sense to have a non-admin account for daily use. I don't actually do this, but I know what security I am giving up by doing so. I do run ClamXav on my macs. Work policy requires me to run AV on my MBP and since ClamXav is lightweight and unobtrusive I added it to my Mini at home as well. I also run clamAV on my Linux fileserver.
 
Consultant said:
http://www.apple.com/getamac/faq/
"Is a Mac reliable?"
"Are Mac computers secure?"

Actually he doesn't realize that OSX will require admin password for software install,
even when running Admin account.
Click to expand...

But not all software comes in a pkg that requires installation. An administrator can modify many of these apps to add functionality like sending keystrokes to an IRC channel, delete data files, etc. Is this a vulnerability? yes. Does this pose a threat? yes. Is the risk high? probably not.

As an information security consultant myself I find it best to not think in absolutes and instead weigh the risks involved in any given configuration. Novice users will probably not, so unless you can assess the systems vulnerabilities and determine the threats it faces in order to determine risk, it might be better to run in a safer configuration where your account can't exploit the vulnerabilities in the first place. But that's just the CISSP in me talking.
 
One of the reasons I use a Mac is so I don't have to spend time working for the computer. The computer works for me. I don't use any anti-virus software on my macs. I look at my friends PCs and it looks like half the apps are needed just to make the computer run safely - I don't have time for that.
 
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