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Any news on the non-glossy MBPs?

Tomorrow said:
Okay, I was gonna let this go like the other 46,659 matte vs. glossy threads, but then you went there...
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I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that most admins won't be using their MBPs at the beach.

Its not being snobby, its predicting the environments the machine will be used in. Its not being snobby to assume that an outdoor photographer will have more glare issues than someone who works in a dark room.
 
darngooddesign said:
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that most admins won't be using their MBPs at the beach.

Its not being snobby, its predicting the environments the machine will be used in. Its not being snobby to assume that an outdoor photographer will have more glare issues than someone who works in a dark room.
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I agree with your point, but the example you give is certainly an extreme case. If you're outside with a computer then (1) even a matte screen is NOT going to give you a flawless representation, and (2) you can avoid glare, reflection, etc. from the sun by simply turning the computer around. A screen can't reflect light that isn't directly hitting it.
 
jawzzy said:
I've read so many "matte vs. glossy" threads that I am surprised that this point hasn't been brought up:

Older CRT monitors. They were glass screens. Many had anti-glare/anti-reflection coatings.

Anti-glare...glass. Without a stick-on sheet of plastic.

Is it not feasible for Apple to put this same type of coating on the glass surface of the MBPs? It doesn't make sense to me that people say that glass inherently has to be glossy. If Apple chooses not to do it, I'm sure some company would be able to make a killing offering a third party solution, something like those tablet Macbooks that that one company sells. Either send in your existing unibody MBP to get treated or buy a new, treated one from them.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned this?
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These are good points, but keep in mind those CRTs were anti-glare, not anti-reflection. Most of the complaints I see in these threads are really anti-reflection. If you took one of these CRTs and put in in the same conditions you can put a MBP in, then I think you would see similar reflections. It might be a little less but not a ton less. But you couldn't do this with those big heavy CRTs, you used them in a light controlled environment.

What is funnier to me though is that apparently "professionals" didn't exist until the invention of the matte LCD display. Because it's apparently unprofessional to use anything else. :rolleyes:

Last comment I'll make here. If you think using a matte screen in a non-light controlled environment is giving you something more "accurate" than the new glassy screen then you aren't a professional. True color accuracy requires both calibration and controlled lighting. Anything not meeting those requirements is just personal preference.
 
As Chief of Professional Janitorial Services, Inc. (CPJS), I agree wholeheartedly that glossy is not good for some environments (harsh bathroom lighting is a big one).

Design pros aren't the only other market aside from "average Joe."

No, no new news on non-glossy MBPs.
 
Different people have different eyes. Different people see things in a different way. I, for myself, hate driving in the night when its raining cause all I see are reflections of light all over the street. Its even worse when I had to look at a display all the day. Did you think of this comparison, when people say they hate glossy displays ? That is true for me, too.

So does anybody has the right to call me a whiner cause I don't like all the reflections on the display in the way I see them ? Should I care about people that don't see any reflection, does it help me ?

I remember when we all switched to LCD displays cause they didn't have any reflections (software development). And we all were happy.

This is why options are quite good and this is why Apple should bring back an option. I really start to hate this kind of discussions, is this the Apple community - just hate and flame ?
 
I love how everyone think they're a professional and Apple's sales are mostly geared towards professionals. hahahh. If you truly were a "professional" you better not be using any kind of laptop display.

I'm sick of reading these threads. Move on.
 
no such thing as "matte glass substrate". So as long as apple sticks to their glass screen design, it's a glossy road ahead =P
 
SDAVE said:
Obviously the designers and the movie industry are one of Apples most loyal user bases. This dates back to print design where people stuck with the G3's and on. And the market share is not as big as regular users like yours. The bloggers or whatever.

You're not seeing reflection because you have your screen adjusted to a certain position and you're probably hiding away from the light.

Try sitting somewhere where the light hits the screen directly and you have no choice to move.

Yes I've tried the new MBPs. They are lovely, except for the screen. How hard would it be for Apple to add a matte screen? I sent them feedback, hopefully others do as well. If a matte screen MBP comes out in a few months, my wallet shall be emptied.
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Also musicians!
;)
 
I'm a recent convert to Apple and just bought one of the Early2008 MBPs and couldn't be happier with it at this point. I was in the Apple store this weekend and played around with the Unibodies a bit, being careful not to stay long enough to find too many things I went ga-ga over. I will say that the displays look nice, but I agree with the OP that I would prefer matte.

Being a new convert, I do remember that one big thing that turned me off about Apple was the "Jobs-ego" factor. That is what I call it when there are many things that Jobs decides "will be", and the users don't have a say in it. He wants glossy screens, then that is the way it is. He's OK with a lot of people not liking it. That's the Apple way and its not going to change as long as he's in charge, so there is no point losing sleep over it. When you got in bed with Jobs, you had to know that HE decides what is best for us, not us. No removable battery in the iPhone... no single processor conventional tower... etc., etc... But with that negative, you get the positive of all that Apple does so well. Nothing is perfect, but given the comparison of life in Jobsville vs. life in Gatestown... I like this side better.
 
Seriously guys - after having worked with the new MBP for 3 weeks I have to say that the screen SUCKS. It just sucks. It sucks so badly that I'm about to sell the computer. Anyone claiming a) that "glossy is the future" and/or b) that "they're not that bad" is either lying or trying to justify his or her purchase or both.

No other vendor sells pro notebooks without a matte option - so don't tell me this is the future. For most other vendors, the matte ones are the default and the glossy screens are the option.

The screen is extremely irritating. Not only are the constantly visible reflections (and they're ALWAYS visible, varying from mildly annoying to unbearable, depending on the room lighting) a major pain, they also give me sore eyes and a headache. They make proper calibration close to impossible. The glossy screen also displays colors in an unnatural, overblown way, no matter how you calibrate the screen.
 
Apple needs to figure out a way to implement matte with their screens so they can provide options... just so these stupid debates that are way off topic can stop showing up.

For me being an outside person, who spends hours and hours on the computer.. I feel paying 2000 bucks for a laptop that has a handicap when being taken into broad daylight is absolutely ridiculous. I'd prefer a matte option. No I haven't used the new MBP (only the early 08 matte), but I know if ANYONE is going to have issues with glare/reflection, it's going to be me, sitting at the beach enjoying the sunset editing my diving shots from the day
 
From Apple ergonomics page

"Eye strain refers to ocular fatigue, eye discomfort and headaches associated from intensive use of the eyes. Common causes include:

* glare on the computer screen
* poor visual correction (out of date eyeglass prescription)
* reading small character sizes on the screen
* poor contrast between text and background on the monitor
* noticeable screen flicker
* dry eyes"
 
Glare: a light within the field of vision that is brighter than the brightness to which the eyes are adapted; "a glare of sunlight"

reflections aren't glare. just saying. glossy is still ridiculous.

sinser said:
From Apple ergonomics page

"Eye strain refers to ocular fatigue, eye discomfort and headaches associated from intensive use of the eyes. Common causes include:

* glare on the computer screen
* poor visual correction (out of date eyeglass prescription)
* reading small character sizes on the screen
* poor contrast between text and background on the monitor
* noticeable screen flicker
* dry eyes"
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I'm glad this thread being a bit civilized and thank the others who do not like the spoon feeding given by Apple...

Please guys, use this forum to send Apple feedback and ask for a matte screen option:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html

Apple does listen, no doubt about it.

I mean how hard could it be to have a matte option? They are going to lose MBP customers by not having this option.

There shouldn't be any excuses for not having a matte option. Imagine going into Best Buy and seeing all of the HDTV's are Plasma TV's with glass. You would go crazy. Not everyone wants reflective coating on their display, especially if you use these products as tools.

I mean if I bought it for web surfing, light photo editing or whatever, I wouldn't mind.
 
Not again, do we really need a seperate thread for everyone who doesn't like glossy?

*covers ears and screams*
 
wow. most everyone that's responded has been pretty douchebaggy.

1) Read the OP. He's inquiring about a future Matte MBP. if you don't know or are sick of people "complaining" then the easy solution is to not respond, because you are not being helpful. just douchey.

2) if you "lol" because you retardedly opened another annoying matte vs glossy thread, just to respond that you find it lol there is another matte vs glossy thrad, then you have no one to blame but yourself and only did so to add another douchey response

3) for those getting offended because he stated design/graphic professionals are more affected by the glossy screens. get over it. we are VISUAL communicators. i repeat VISUAL communicators. so if we do visual design as our livilihood, then think about it. yah. if we have to stare at a screen, and know how best our work will look on screen, then maybe it's important to not have extra annoyances or distractions. maybe? you think?

4) those that say the glossy is ok, and it won't prevent you from doing what you need. do you really not think that if something is annoying and distracting, that it shouldn't be improved? really? that's your reasoning? my car only has one headlight. i drive fine. everyone should only drive with one headlight.

man, no wonder why PC users find Mac users annoying. cause of most of you guys. the whole "that's the way apple is doing it now, so live with it" attitude is ridiculous.
 
nyutnyut said:
1) Read the OP. He's inquiring about a future Matte MBP. if you don't know or are sick of people "complaining" then the easy solution is to not respond, because you are not being helpful. just douchey.

2) if you "lol" because you retardedly opened another annoying matte vs glossy thread, just to respond that you find it lol there is another matte vs glossy thrad, then you have no one to blame but yourself and only did so to add another douchey response

3) for those getting offended because he stated design/graphic professionals are more affected by the glossy screens. get over it. we are VISUAL communicators. i repeat VISUAL communicators. so if we do visual design as our livilihood, then think about it. yah. if we have to stare at a screen, and know how best our work will look on screen, then maybe it's important to not have extra annoyances or distractions. maybe? you think?

4) those that say the glossy is ok, and it won't prevent you from doing what you need. do you really not think that if something is annoying and distracting, that it shouldn't be improved? really? that's your reasoning? my car only has one headlight. i drive fine. everyone should only drive with one headlight.

man, no wonder why PC users find Mac users annoying. cause of most of you guys. the whole "that's the way apple is doing it now, so live with it" attitude is ridiculous.
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1. No one knows what the hell Apple is planning, but based on product cycles its going to be at least three years before they do a redesign. The OP knows that we have no idea so this thread is just passive-agressive whining; summed up perfectly by the last sentence of his original post.

2. LOL

3. Its usually stated that all professionals are affected by it, when I for example am not. I don't appreciate someone being condescending that if I like the glossy screen then I am less of a professional. Condescending as in using phrases "maybe? you think?".

4. See my response to #3. Not all of us find it annoying.

If you should be allowed to bitch about the glossy screens, then we should be allowed to counter your bitching because its not nearly as bad as some of you think. The OP's solutions are. Get over it, buy a PC and use Windows, or buy a PC and Hackintosh it.
 
I think the solution is pretty simple. Just don't buy it. If it's a deal breaker, then why would you sacrifice? There are other options. Obviously most of us would agree that OS X is far superior to other options, and it's easy to see how you might feel out in the cold, but the best you can do is voice your concern with feedback to Apple and your wallet. Or find a mod solution. Hopefully someone is working on a mod.

By the way, for those who are graphic designers, can you point to an intelligent discussion from a reputable source about what exactly the technical issue is regarding glossy screens and color accuracy? Can these screens not be calibrated? Do hoods not work? How much color accuracy is lost with anti-glare filters? Can these not be calibrated? Is it a question of optics? Surely these things can be accounted for digitally or even optically. I want to see numbers and reasoning more than I care to read any more opinions (which often amount to generalizations and feelings) on the subject.

Anyone who has any good resources, please share them. I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the context surrounding the complaints.
 
Laptop screens can be calibrated, but they will never be 100% accurate. If it bothers you that much you will have an external display, and you will be upgrading every year or so because over time laptop displays fade so what you see after a year is not what you saw when it was new.

The crux of the issue is not color accuracy, but rather if you see reflections on the screen you will not see a true representation of your work. This is in fact true, the argument is over how bad the glare is and that's subjective to your work environment. It is not, however, a blanket rule.
 
In regards to a future non-glass MBP:

1.) Who knows, Apple doesn't publish it's plans.
2.) If you look carefully at the current design, the lid is 100% dependent on the glass for it's structure. It's too thin to work without the glass to provide strength.
3.) To make the current design work you would need glass or a glass substitute that is non-smooth.

I really doubt that you will be able to get a matte type display to work with the current design. Maybe such a material exists but I've never seen it. So, if the current display really bothers you that much then I'd start looking for alternatives or complaining directly to Apple rather than on these forums.
 
SDAVE said:
...A laptop is used to do quick drafts or do unfinished designs if you have a quick idea in your head. You finalize it on a workstation, which is why I have a professional Mac Pro setup with calibrated monitors. And no, print is CMYK, not RGB. There are dozens of high end LCD monitors out there for professionals (NEC, etc).

That was my whole point regarding Apple and their catering to the masses. They forgot their loyal base: designers. A lot of people do rough cuts on their laptops in FCP so I am sure they also will have a hard time with the glossy screens...\
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If you are a professional or just an "average Joe" it seems to me that all this arguing is irrelevant. It really just comes down to a matter of preference.

However SDAVE, you just proved that it really doesn't matter what screen a "laptop" comes with because most "professional" users probably won't be producing a finished product on a laptop. Just about any screen will work for doing rough work.

So, what does it matter what kind of a screen is on it? If you don't like what they offer, you don't have to buy it.
 
SubZer0 said:
So, what does it matter what kind of a screen is on it? If you don't like what they offer, you don't have to buy it.
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Yes, very much. People think we're BSing here regarding the useless display (for US). Obviously I'm not going to buy it, I already tried it. Also have another laptop that has a gloss display, I don't do anything besides browse the web and check my email on it, the glossy display is a deal killer.

Feels like I am repeating myself here...anyways to everyone else who is not satisfied with Apple, please send them feedback ASAP. The sooner they get it the better, maybe they will introduce new ones at Mac World. There's hoping! I like the Apple bandwagon and don't plan on leaving it any time soon.
 
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