Out of curiosity, have you used an anti-static mat and grounded it as well as yourself while doing the upgrade? Not saying this is the cause, but there are so many youtube videos of electronic repairs/upgrades of people who lack the proper equipment and try to show others how it's done.
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Any T2-related crashes with 2018 Mini?
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PJivan
macrumors 6502
90% of people don’t even know what you are talking about, they get concern if the cpu runs at 90c but they are happy to swap parts with no precautions
Just visited Apple Store Hong Kong (@APM) today, the only one Mac mini is there which is connected to an LG display.
The screen is BLACK!😕😱 NOTHING! Absolutely nothing is on screen but the little white LED of the mini is on.
The Genius told me the display is dead. 😀
I suspect the same boot problem and the mini is dead.
The screen is BLACK!😕😱 NOTHING! Absolutely nothing is on screen but the little white LED of the mini is on.
The Genius told me the display is dead. 😀
I suspect the same boot problem and the mini is dead.
iZeljko
macrumors regular
That is one very good point you've made.
It is not that hard to create safe working enviroment
Thanks for sharing. I will definitely put my purchase of MM on hold.
Shame on you APPLE!
EDIT:
I'm glad to correct myself as it turned out that it was a display fault after all!
I've made an order for i7/16/256/APP+ and I'll get it on Christmas eve on the soonest.
It was far less gamble to purchase that machine than the new "new" 2018 MPB i7/16/512/Vega?APP+ that would put me off at about $5kUS in the EU.
This solution might keep me running till the MBP regains it's reliability and reputation.
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Not really. I am both software and electronic engineer. I know what it is. The DRAM is a module in which all chips are connected to PCB. In this case, chips are not easy to be damaged by ESD (as pins are protected or grounded, or connected to capacitors which can help protection a bit ).
We do coding for micro-controllers with huge no. of development modules every day from different suppliers. I believe no one will use ESD anti static wrist strap band during handling of the modules. We also hold them in hands to connect to USB ports or jumper wires and other works. And in years of works, I never see one is damaged by ESD.
But we will never touch bare chips directly without ESD protection. 😀
For sensitive device or do in at home, the easy way is to touch any machine chassis which has an earthing wire (Mac Mini does not have earthing wire). This can help to discharge your body in a short period of time.
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iZeljko
macrumors regular
It only takes a nice wool pullover that your grandma made ...
On the other note, I often do work with electronics and my habit is to discharge myself to a grounded power socket - that comes as a benefit of living in EU where sockets are having exposed ground terminals.
I have seen few ESD damaged devises and in every case it was a cause of someone who was wearing clothes that would not be worn in industrial environment.
If I'd be given a one of prototype of something that is really important to stay alive I'd probably wash my work desk mat with diluted soap, take a metal clip and ground that mat to the power socket. Have a seat and discharge myself to the same power socket and go on.
Diluted soap is conductive - I remember that from my days of making electrostatic speakers where I'd treat Mylar film to become conductive. Once dried it is enough to bring the entire surface to a same potential. - cheap and practical.
I've seen lads having a grounded copper sheet on their work benches but that is a little too much for me.
There are many ways to skin a cat... What ever works is good but ignoring a high potential to cause an electrostatic discharge damage is not to be neglected.
So true. Don't get me wrong, I do electronics work every now and then in addition to software and a lot of times I don't use a proper mat and don't ground myself. I've also done a fair amount of damage this way, so for anything above a specific price point, I do it properly. Touching something like a radiator might help, but better safe than sorry.
iZeljko
macrumors regular
Do not get me wrong, I was not trying to say you were doing anything wrong. I just highlighted that the possibility is there and if the hazard is not understood it will not be addressed correctly.
There are a lot of folks who have neglected that in the past but still got away with no problems, but there are also cases where a pro user might have had a bad day.
PJivan
macrumors 6502
I'm puzzled like, is this how rumors start? I saw a black screen so therefore T2 chip on the Mac mini has issue, shame on Apple. quite a forensic job!
I just want to say, I visited the same store, checked out the same mini on the same table, and noticed the same LG Ultrafine 5K going black as well. Can confirm it was only the display being broken, I could raise the panel up and down to get the picture back and then out. It was some cabling inside the vertical column that was borked, typical LG.
harriska2
macrumors 68020
I don’t know if it helps but I leave my windows cpu plugged in and discharge myself by touching the powersupply. I then unplug and stick in the ram. I haven’t done many machines over the years, maybe 20? and not had a problem. I also avoid carpet and nylon clothes ...
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I wish there were more companies making 5k monitors. I’d love a 32-34” 5k monitor!
iZeljko
macrumors regular
That procedure is good for power supplies that are grounded. The PC PWS uses a 3 pole plug that has a middle ground pin.
Mac Mac mini on the other side has only two pole plug and cable with no ground conductor. It is good to find alternative method of discharging yourself.
I'm also going to allow booting from external media, but why'd you choose medium security?
Synchro3
macrumors 68000
In my understanding medium security allows 'older' macOS to boot, while full security allows only the latest revision of macOS.
The next macOS 10.15 will eliminate 32 Bit support, and I have plenty of 32 Bit apps.
Quote: https://www.idownloadblog.com/2018/01/09/how-to-imac-pro-secure-boot/
- Full Security—The default setting that brings the highest level of security. An active Internet connection may be required at software installation time so that your iMac Pro can confirm that it’s booting up a macOS or Windows version that hasn’t been tampered with in any way. Leave this setting enabled to run a macOS or Windows version that’s currently installed on your iMac Pro, or any cryptographically signed operating system trusted by Apple.
- Medium Security—This setting verifies the macOS or Windows version on the startup disk only to see if it’s been properly signed by Apple or Microsoft, but doesn’t require an Internet connection or updated integrity information from Apple. It does not prevent the machine from running an operating system that’s no longer trusted by Apple. Use this setting to boot into older versions of macOS regardless of Apple’s level of trust.
- No Security—This is the lowest security setting which doesn’t enforce any security requirements for the bootable operating system on your startup disk. Use it to boot into Linux or any other operating system supported on your hardware, no signing or verification with Apple required. This is the way all other Macs currently start up.
I just returned my second I7 to apple both machines appeared fine at first but both had serious problems after a long handbrake encode. The first would not reboot and just went into a power down power up boot cycle, The second could not read the internal flash drive both ccc and time machine would fail. Not sure if the first failure was related to the T2 chip but the second failure most likely was ,When booting in recovery mode i did not have the security option menu. Looks like is is back to my 2012 or maybe a coffee lake hackintosh.
iZeljko
macrumors regular
I think I'm falling down the MM cliff right now.
I'll probably grab one myself and then buy a MacBook Pro when they iron out the problems with it.
Thinking of i7 / 16GB / 128GB.
It make too small of a difference to upgrade ram from 8 to 16 GB myself, and 16 should be plenty for now.
The SSD on the other hand can be external for cheap.
You have returned your MBP, not the MM right?
Once the older OS is signed, if you don't modify it then it shouldn't need a T2 instance unique signature again. The signage here here is this specific Mac equipped with a T2. If there is another machine need to boot from then may need to drop down to medium.
Apple tends to stop signing previous iOS versions ( even at 'dot' level increments), but I'm not sure macOS has the same issue. Especially since a reasonable number of Macs has access to more than one drive. And if Apple is shipping out security patches. As long as folks are running it and there are new security patches coming out they can't 'turn off' the signing completely for a specific major version.
After Apple stops all patching then perhaps Medium may be necessary if have some 'floating' boot drive that hook up to different Macs, but the older system, now stable that was matched to the T2 wouldn't have that specific signature rovoked over time and really shouldn't need a new one ( unless hacking around in Apple's code).
Synchro3
macrumors 68000
Yes, I ordered two of these Thunderbolt enclosures for M.2 NVME drives: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...YPE-C-aluminium-TYPE/710516_32952100894.html?
iZeljko
macrumors regular
Thanks for sharing!
Let us know how it performs when you set it up.
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That is very discouraging.
Synchro3
macrumors 68000
How long did the handbrake encode? Did you increase the fan speed? The i7 in the Mac Mini reaches up to 97°C, and the RAM and SSD on the motherboard are near: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2018-mini-3-2ghz-i7-temps.2153133/page-6#post-26799227
I the past I had to increase the fan speed manually when using the i7-CPU heavily for a long time (Mac Mini 2012): https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-to-keep-a-mac-mini-from-overheating.1884378/#post-21610445
You have to click on utilities in the menu bar and then choose Firmware Password Utility or Startup Security Utility.
The only option was disk utility (just like there was no T2 chip.
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The encode run over night maybe 10 hrs of so. I did not increase the fan speed on the 2018. The same encode ran for 23 hrs on the 2012 which ran fine without adjusting the fan speed.
Thanks for being our guinea pig. I'll definitely pass on the 2018 Mac Mini. Hopefully the next version irons out these problems.