Anybody else disappointed with Leopard?

Discussion in 'macOS' started by jonschoen, Nov 10, 2007.

  1. jonschoen macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Location:
    Albuquerque NM, USA
    #1
    Hello. Am I the only one who is very disappointed with Leopard? I mean, I paid $130 and waited in line for the 'Leopard Opening' at 6pm, on the Friday it came out. I have been using Mac OS X since BEFORE the $30 'Public Beta" of version 10.0, and I have been using Macs and the Mac OS since System 7, so I consider myself a professional user. I make my living fixing computers. I even had access to the developer edition of 10.5, but chose not to use it, because none of my apps were compatible.

    I have had nothing but trouble on the four computers I have installed Mac OS 10.5 'Leopard' on. Here are the computers I have it installed on:

    1. My Macbook 2.0ghz Core Duo, with 2GB ram, and an upgraded 100GB hard drive. I did a completely clean install on this computer, as it is my main computer I use daily. I backed everything up, formatted the hard drive, and installed 10.5, and then migrated my documents and applications over, except for Adobe Photoshop, which required a new install.

    2. A 1.25Ghz Power PC Mac Mini, with 1GB ram.

    3. A 2.16ghz Core 2 Duo 20" iMac, with the original 512mb ram.

    4. a 2.16Ghz Core 2 Duo 17" iMac, with the original 512mb ram.

    The Mac Mini refused to let me install 10.5 unless I formatted the hard drive. It said that I HAD to partition the drive as GUID. Why GUID? Don't know, thought that was only required for hard drives in Intel Macs. So I backed everything up, formatted the drive, and reimported apps and docs. What a pain! Especially since I was doing it for family, and didn't get paid.

    The last two computers, I did an 'Archive and Install".

    Here are the problems I have experienced with Leopard so far, and also my comments and concerns.

    1. On all 4 computers I installed Leopard on, even the computers with clean installs, various apps (Safari 3, Firefox, Adobe Photoshop CS2, the Finder itself, pretty much every app I use, they all tend to lock up and freeze the computers, as if some background app is hogging all the memory. The Finder freezes up constantly, and CANNOT be force quit.

    2. Applications at times will stop launching. I mean, an app I used earlier in the day, will simply NOT START AT ALL. Bouncing Icon, and then the app closes. Trashing prefs for that app does nothing to solve the problem.

    3. Parental Controls: Is this the lamest software approach Apple has ever come out with, or what? I have tried the Parental Controls on both Intel iMacs, for my kids, and it just doesn't work like it is supposed to. The preferences panel for Parental Controls seem to make sense, they just DON"T WORK like they are supposed to. For instance, even if I allow my kids to modify the dock, they can't do so. No apps can be added or removed from the dock at all. I was forced to temporarily enable the 'Full Finder' and add Aliases to their games on the desktop! This completely disables the purpose of the dock.

    4. Even after updating Kid Pix, sometimes it launches, and sometimes it refuses to. Is this Apple's problem? Probably not, but they use Kid Pix every day, so it IS my problem.

    5. The sidebar, I HATE IT! I hate the new look, and I CANNOT 'close-up' the sidebar. It is always there, always! Apple eliminated the option of 'sliding' the sidebar closed, if you don't use it.

    6. Heirarchical menus in the dock are gone, in favor of 'Fan' and 'Grid' view, neither of which are of use to my. They seem childish. And if I have 5000 images in a folder.... well, fan, or grid, are not very practical.

    7. How hard is it for Apple to make the cursor adjustable? I mean, the ability to change your cursor to whatever you want it to be, the same idea that has been in Windows for as long as I can remember, Windows 95 I think. None of Unsanities apps have been updated, so I can't use Mighty Mouse.

    8. The Dock... I know for a fact, that the dock, when put on the left or right side, in the Developer editions, the dock still had the 'Glass Table' look. But when Leopard was released officially, Apple decided to make the dock 'flat' when it is put anywhere but on the bottom of the screen. I think it looked just fine in the developer editions.

    9. File Sharing. Don't get me started! What a mess.

    10. Safari. ARGHHHH! I hate it. Lack of features and lack of security compared to Firefox. No Flash Block, No Ad Block, No Themes, No nothing, all the things I use in Firefox just aren't available for Safari. I have been using the demo of SAFT, which is 'supposed' to have the ability to block images, ect. It sucks. It doesn't work at all. And no Flash Block. I can't stand Flash animations on web sites. Give me back the web sites of 1995 any day.

    11. Time Machine. I don't even now where to begin. I hate it. Is not configurable. It gobbles up hard drive space on my external drive, sometimes it just refuses to work.

    12. Apple STILL has not fixed the problem that Mac OS X has had since 10.0.... that is, the inability of windows to retain their view settings. When I go to my hard drive, if I had previously set the view to Icon view, and then set that to the default, and to 'Always show In Icon View' I EXPECT IT TO STAY THAT WAY. But view settings change in an apparently random manner.
    No matter how many times I tell the windows to go to Icon, Or List view, they do whatever the hell they want to. Very frustrating.

    13. Labels. How hard is it to make the colors of labels adjustable? I don't want Apple's idea of what colors I should use. I want the color picker, to chose my own colors.

    The good things? Hmm. Really short list...

    1. Quick Look
    2. Slideshow Mode in Preview
    3. Spaces

    That's it! For $130, I want my money back!
     
  2. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    #2

    That's why I've switched back to Vista. Hopefully we'll get more colours for labels in 10.5.1 though.
     
  3. greenmeanie macrumors 6502a

    greenmeanie

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Location:
    AmigaWarez
    #3
    Works solid on my MBP I am happy with it.
    Some of the 3rd party software runs a little funky thou.
     
  4. synth3tik macrumors 68040

    synth3tik

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2006
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    #4
    I am more then pleased. I can ot stand using a pre 10.5 Mac now-a-days.
     
  5. sblasl macrumors 6502a

    sblasl

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Location:
    Heber Springs, AR
    #5
    You need to invest some money into memory. Some of the other things you mention are more or less personal likes/dislikes, I'll let you sort that out.

    My Mac Pro, MacBook Pro, and my Wife's MacBook are all very stable and have had absolutely no problems whatsoever. Yes, there are third party applications that need to be updated but all applications that keep me productive are doing just fine.

    I go back to the Apple II and then purchased my first Mac in the spring of 1984 with the wide carriage ImageWriter. I also had a HyperDrive 10MB hard drive installed in the Mac 128.:)

    I was disappointed when 10.5 was delayed and then over the summer I was thinking I don't see what 10.5 really has to offer. I received it from the Apple store on the Friday of its release. I really have grown to like it and since all of our systems are Intel, they all benefit from 10.5's underpinnings.
     
  6. ingenious macrumors 68000

    ingenious

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    #6
    No.

    I love Leopard.

    It has some rough edges, but they'll be cleaned up in 10.5.1.
     
  7. Hmac macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    #7
    It works fine on my computer, but then again I didn't have the expectations that you apparently did. I guess if I didn't have a life and were willing to wait in line for...(fer chrissake)...an operating system, then yes, I guess I'd be disappointed too.

    Geez...what kind of magic did you think Leopard was going to give you, anyway?
     
  8. jonschoen thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Location:
    Albuquerque NM, USA
    #8
    Thanks

    Thanks for your comments. I DO like Leopard, I just think Apple could have done better, given that they had, what, 2, 2.5 years?

    And you are right, a lot of what I wrote are 'personal preferences', I just can't see why Apple continues to 'fix' things that are not broken, like the sidebar, it worked fine before. But I do like one thing about the sidebar, the fact that they brought back the little 'zip-up' triangles, missing since Mac OS 9.
     
  9. ingenious macrumors 68000

    ingenious

    Joined:
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    #9
    Those triangles have always been there in list view...:confused:
     
  10. jonschoen thread starter macrumors newbie

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    May 15, 2007
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    Albuquerque NM, USA
    #10
    Not 'Magic', but at least Stability. I just think there really isn't much for the money. And as a person who makes money repairing computers, I guess I should be happy people are having trouble, but I'm not.

    As far as standing in line for an operating system, well, to each their own. Some people stand in line and pay hundreds for Super Bowl tickets. Me, you couldn't get me to a football game if you paid me.
     
  11. Big-TDI-Guy macrumors 68030

    Big-TDI-Guy

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    #11
    My biggest gripes with Leopard, are the things that have been removed since Tiger.

    I'm in the process of hunting down fixes / hacks to return the usability I once had.

    Still working on: Nestled folders within Dock / Old Spotlight Interface / Stationary Icons On Stacks / Window Size / Icon Layout Preferences for Finder Windows.
     
  12. jonschoen thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Location:
    Albuquerque NM, USA
    #12
    Hmm

    Really? Hmm, guess I didn't pay any attention, because the very first thing I did on all Pre- 10.5 computers, was to completely close the sidebar (disabled now in 10.5). I guess I am just old fashioned. I prefer just opening up the hard drive and navigating.
     
  13. Hmac macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    #13

    But Jon...it's just an operating system. If you had that much at stake that some instability could break your heart like that, why in the world didn't you wait for 10.5.1? What was the rush? What magic did you expect from Leopard that having it on day one was so important? You're a computer professional and you thought an OS upgrade with "300 new features" was going to be rock stable enough that you should wait in line to be one of the very first to have it?

    :rolleyes:
     
  14. benlee macrumors 65816

    benlee

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    #14
    Actually i really dont like the look of Tiger anymore. I have both installed on my system out of necessity because my exam software isnt certified for Leopard yet. I love the new look ad have had only minor problems with Leopard so far. I agree tha some of your problems could be solved with more memory. Ive seen some minis with only 512 run like crap with Tiger. Apple cant account for you personal preferences in there operating system. Granted more customability would be nice, it might come at the cost of stability.

    Madjew, you switched to Vista because of the labels?
    You must really need those labels. Hahah
     
  15. kresh macrumors 6502a

    kresh

    #15
    Well I see the problem right there. It's in number "9. File Sharing".

    It's like this, you purchased the single user edition of Leopard and installed it on four machines. Now you have the audacity to complain about something you appear to be stealing for three computers.

    If you are stealing from a company I love, then I have no compassion for your troubles in this instance.
     
  16. jonschoen thread starter macrumors newbie

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    May 15, 2007
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    Albuquerque NM, USA
    #16
    Do I expect more from Apple than I do Microsoft? Absolutely! Do I expect there to be bugs? Yes. I know there will be. I just feel that my experiences with 10.2.0, 10.3.0, and 10.4.0 were more solid than 10.5.0. I'm not saying it's a bad OS, it's still the best available. And no, my heart isn't broken, come on... But I expect more from Steve and Co.
     
  17. jonschoen thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Location:
    Albuquerque NM, USA
    #17
    What are you? The OS Police?! Please! Get off your high horse.. It's not worth $35 for each computer. And I'm going to spend $200 for a family license, FOR THE EXACT SAME DISK? I think not. And besides, I have already PURCHASED 4 brand new Mac computers in the last year and a half. I don't feel bad for Apple.

    Why doesn't someone here actually address my real concerns? Did you even read the posting? Everyone here is quick to attack me, but how long have you been a mac user? Or a computer user? My first computer was the original IBM 5150, so I think I know what the hell I'm talking about.

    Yes, thanks for your Smart Ass comment, it was REALLY helpful. (Hear the sarcasm?)

    Thanks for your comment, unlike some here, it actually has substance... instead of attacks. and you are right, the 2 computers I have with 512MB do need to be updated, which could account for problems on those computers.
     
  18. kresh macrumors 6502a

    kresh

    #18

    I'll see your IBM 5150 introduced in 1981 and raise you with my original TRS-80 (pre Model I) introduced in 1979 (Got it new on my 13th birthday), my second computer was an Apple ][ that I traded for a few months later.

    You can't justify theft by declaring that in your opinion it's not worth x. Try going into Walmart and walking out with an XBox 360 for $150 because that's all you think it's worth.

    It doesn't matter if you were the founding member of the Sinclair computing club, the length of computer ownership does not justify theft.

    Of course there is no use arguing with you, because you have already justified theft in your mind, and I will not post anymore about it.
     
  19. Big-TDI-Guy macrumors 68030

    Big-TDI-Guy

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    #19
    If the response from the UI is jittery or slow - apart from adding ram (which would likely help you a bit) try:

    Turn off some of the unnecessary eye candy. Eliminate the 3D dock (made a difference on mine) there are a bunch of threads explaining how to do this.

    Also, if your desktop changes every couple of minutes - extending the time period, or shutting that off, should help too.

    Don't forget, the Spotlight indexing in the background and/or Time Machine performing the initial runs, will temporarily degrade system performance.
     
  20. benlee macrumors 65816

    benlee

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    #20
    No one addressed your original post because it had no substance. You basically complained about problems you had with no specifics and other problems were just personal preferences.

    I'm sorry but I could care less what your first computer was. That has no bearing on what you know. If you want to go somewhere and complain thats fine, but don't get pissed when peoples responses try to address those complaints for what they really are.

    Maybe its karma for not paying what you should have! And if you knew what you were talking about like you say, you wouldn't have installed a brand new .0 OS on four computers without wading in the waters (so to speak) for a bit.
     
  21. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

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    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    #21

    No. I don't read out loud.
     
  22. jonschoen thread starter macrumors newbie

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    May 15, 2007
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    Albuquerque NM, USA
    #22
    No substance huh? Then stop stop reading this thread. And hop on the morality bus with the other guy.
     
  23. benlee macrumors 65816

    benlee

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    #23
    is there a way I can get the schedule for the bus?
    Sorry man, I just can't seem to find a preference in Safari 3 to make your comment more substantial. Guess I'll have to see if it is there in 10.3.0
     
  24. gr8tfly macrumors 603

    gr8tfly

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Location:
    ~119W 34N
    #24
    Then you should know the majority of changes in Leopard are not in the UI and you make no mention of them. The UI features you're complaining about were widely publicize, so shouldn't have been any surprise.

    Myself, friends and family (running combinations of Intel and PPC, down to 1GHz G4) aren't having any of the launch issues you are experiencing. 512MB is really a minimal amount of RAM, which could be part of the performance issues you're seeing. The 1.67 GHz G4 PB, with 2GB RAM, runs great and is noticeably faster than Tiger. Buy more RAM.

    I've had virtually zero stability issues. Less than I recall with Tiger x.0. Finder has an issue where it can't remember what's mounted and what isn't, but that's a x.0 level issue too. Overall, performance is noticeably improved across the board.

    I don't think playing the "experience card" really helped much. With that kind of experience and a bit of research (like the recent Ars Technica 80 page review), you'd realize $130 (or in your case, $32.50) is a bargain. (IBM 5150 isn't old, btw. I'll raise you an Altair 680b and a bunch of LSI-11's running RT-11. ;) )

    As for the "high horse" comment - it's hard to be sympathetic when openly admitting to pirating. If you're gonna do it, that's your business, but announcing it isn't going to help your case any here.

    If you really think it's a downgrade, uninstall it and wait for the free 10.5.x update. I can just about guarantee there will be visible tweaks to the UI within a few updates, along with addressing the x.0 bugs.
     
  25. jonschoen thread starter macrumors newbie

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    May 15, 2007
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    Albuquerque NM, USA
    #25
    I never admitted to anything. The other guy brought up the 'assumption' that I pirated Leopard. And so what if I did install it on more than one machine? Everyone here does, you all just don't have the balls to admit it.
     

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