Anybody Using The Dx4? (4x SSD In PCIe)

[Transporteur]

Just a quick question from my side.
Are you sure that you wanna settle with a 40GB drive for the OS AND apps?

Seems to be a little on the small side to me. I've got no idea which applications you'll run, but keep in mind that SSD's want to have spare space for levelling.
In addition to that, unless you've found out how to move the systems swap files, those are also going to be written to the OS drive.

During my work, which doesn't involve any media files whatsoever, the swap files can easily get to 20GB during a week. But then I've got only 12GB of RAM, which although more than sufficient for my work, doesn't prevent the system from creating massive swap files.

All I'm saying is that you have to be very certain on how to configure and use your system with a 40GB OS and app drive.

 

[JulianBoolean]

Just a quick question from my side.
Are you sure that you wanna settle with a 40GB drive for the OS AND apps?

Seems to be a little on the small side to me. I've got no idea which applications you'll run, but keep in mind that SSD's want to have spare space for levelling.
In addition to that, unless you've found out how to move the systems swap files, those are also going to be written to the OS drive.

During my work, which doesn't involve any media files whatsoever, the swap files can easily get to 20GB during a week. But then I've got only 12GB of RAM, which although more than sufficient for my work, doesn't prevent the system from creating massive swap files.

All I'm saying is that you have to be very certain on how to configure and use your system with a 40GB OS and app drive.

Transporteur-

Cool, thanks for pointing out the swap thing. i can fit all my apps and OS on 25GB, and thats my home system which has 3D apps on there. my work computers need a bit less. having said that, I might consider a larger volume for the reason you've mentioned

Thanks!

-JB

 

[nanofrog]

I just got the green light for funding on the following upgrade proposal. Will get 1 workstation up and running first, then the following three workstations after. Talked to the IT guys and mentioned my concerns about the areca card playing nice with the SSDs. They seemed open to working out the issue.

Good. Now to wait for all the parts, and let the testing begin...

Request: Just need help finalizing the exact model of areca 1800. Interested to hear about the battery thingy and the cache thingy options available. Currently planning a need for 7 ports on the card (4 HDs and 3 SSD) The Boot and apps would go on the ich. Also intrested in adding more ports for a bit of future proofing.

Ah, so now you're interested in adding ports. What happened to not needing more than 8?

Now you see the potential and the beginnings of a potential addition to RAID?
Wait 'til you test the card and drives.... then you're screwed.... er.... hooked. Muhahaha

• Areca 1880i Series Raid Card
Will determine exact model needed when configuration is finalized

Well, in this instance, I'd go with the ARC-1880ix12 as a bare minimum. By going with this card (or the 16 or 24 port versions), the cache is contained on a DIMM rather than soldered to the board. Which allows you to upgrade the cache capacity to 4GB (here). I wouldn't go past the 16 port version for what you've listed so far (presuming say adding 4x SSD's to the stripe set, and 4x HDD"s to the mechanical RAID 5 set for capacity/performance expansion).

I'd recommend bookmarking the links, as they're the correct P/N's to do what you need (especially the battery and DIMM). BTW, I've used Provantage many times, and haven't had any problems with them (great prices and decent packaging, especially when compared to newegg for HDD's).

The ARC-1880ixY models are the ones that use the newer BBU (higher mA rating than previous cards). You can find it here (P/N ends in T113; ARC-6120 version would be used with the other models in the series, such as the ARC-1880I). Please note, that they're new enough, that it's special order for most of these Areca products.

• 1x 40GB OWC Mercury Extreme Pro SSD (OS + Apps)

I'm with Transporteur here; get a bigger drive.

• OWC Mercury Elite-AlPro, Qx2

Don't forget the eSATA card to get this working (go with one of the newertech cards from OWC; you don't have to have the PM capable version, but it could open up other options later, and the cost difference is only $30).

• Newertech (non RAID version) $50
• Newertech RAID version (has PM support) $80

 

[JulianBoolean]

Good. Now to wait for all the parts, and let the testing begin...

(Barry White Voice Here) Oooooh baby, …. testing... that'sa ma faaavorite word. I'm downright giddy at the prospect of building four of these killer retouching machines.

Ah, so now you're interested in adding ports. What happened to not needing more than 8?
Now you see the potential and the beginnings of a potential addition to RAID?
Wait 'til you test the card and drives.... then you're screwed.... er.... hooked. Muhahaha

Yeah man, I got the fever. Speed fever they calls it. And regarding the 8 ports, I'm deserving of any humorous ridicule thrown my way, fine sir. That was the first question you asked me on day one. But... that's how we roll in ad agency land! We change direction on ya two feet from the goal line. The good news is that nothing is ordered at this point. I can still work out the finer points and am currently collaborating, conversing with the IT guys. Ordering won't happen until next week friday. I was also very clear that the exact model of card is yet to be determined and mentioned the battery backup and cache upgrade options. It's all good.

Well, in this instance, I'd go with the ARC-1880ix12 as a bare minimum. By going with this card (or the 16 or 24 port versions), the cache is contained on a DIMM rather than soldered to the board. Which allows you to upgrade the cache capacity to 4GB (here). I wouldn't go past the 16 port version for what you've listed so far (presuming say adding 4x SSD's to the stripe set, and 4x HDD"s to the mechanical RAID 5 set for capacity/performance expansion).

The 16 Port is 50 bucks more than the 12, so I'll go with the 16, and the 4GB upgrade. We'll be living with this configuration for at least three years, and while I don't currently see any need for expansion, I also thought my Beige G3 with 32MB of ram was all the computer I'd ever need. Lesson learned.

I'd recommend bookmarking the links, as they're the correct P/N's to do what you need (especially the battery and DIMM). BTW, I've used Provantage many times, and haven't had any problems with them (great prices and decent packaging, especially when compared to newegg for HDD's).

Cool beans, all links have been bookmarked. Big thanks on this man.

The ARC-1880ixY models are the ones that use the newer BBU (higher mA rating than previous cards). You can find it here (P/N ends in T113; ARC-6120 version would be used with the other models in the series, such as the ARC-1880I). Please note, that they're new enough, that it's special order for most of these Areca products.

Slight confused here, but now that the exact model has been selected, is it apparent which option would be better?

I'm with Transporteur here; get a bigger drive.

Good catch Transporteur, much appreciated, and will do. I'm thinking either the 200GB OWC RE's for $649.00, or the 240GB for $569.00. So that's basically a more cells & capacity vs. 27% over provisioning but less capacity, and fewer cells. Both are in the price range. Thoughts?

Don't forget the eSATA card to get this working (go with one of the newertech cards from OWC; you don't have to have the PM capable version, but it could open up other options later, and the cost difference is only $30).

• Newertech (non RAID version) $50
• Newertech RAID version (has PM support) $80

Good catch. I'm liking the RAID version as I'll be running 4 disks in the external back up box in a RAID5. Reading from the promotional blurbs.. those thinga ma jiggles make the transfer speeds double yes? instead of ~300MB/s I'd get ~600MB/s, correct? But… (obvious black hole in my knowledge base, and being intellectually curious) this goes in one of two PCI slots, and there is one pci slot that is a 4 lane, and one that is an 8 lane?

Thanks to all for all the continued support!

-Julian

 

[philipma1957]

Julian see this thread https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1035193/

If you are getting all that gear from OWC you could ask them >

 

[nanofrog]

We change direction on ya two feet from the goal line.

That's almost always the case. So don't go feelin' special.

I can still work out the finer points and am currently collaborating, conversing with the IT guys.

Glad to hear it's collaboration, not "staring daggers" at each other.

The 16 Port is 50 bucks more than the 12, so I'll go with the 16, and the 4GB upgrade. We'll be living with this configuration for at least three years, and while I don't currently see any need for expansion, I also thought my Beige G3 with 32MB of ram was all the computer I'd ever need. Lesson learned.

These cards can also be moved from one system to another, so the additional ports could allow them to be functional for than the system they're planned in.

They could also be re-tasked to say an archival storage system in the future (even a SAN, if the archival capacity needs to be available to more than 4 systems, on the presumption of expansion).

Slight confused here, but now that the exact model has been selected, is it apparent which option would be better?

What I meant was, the ARC-1880ix12, ARC-1880ix16 (one you seem to want), and the ARC-1880ix24 must use the T113 version for the BBU (one with the higher current rating; mA = milli Amps).

Good catch Transporteur, much appreciated, and will do. I'm thinking either the 200GB OWC RE's for $649.00, or the 240GB for $569.00. So that's basically a more cells & capacity vs. 27% over provisioning but less capacity, and fewer cells. Both are in the price range. Thoughts?

Go with the Pro version = 240GB model. Both actually work out to 256GB of total storage capacity, which includes the over-provisioning (200 * 1.28 for the RE, 240 * 1.07 for the Pro).

Given they're the same total capacity and the Pro is cheaper, the cost/GB is lower (wear leveling for the same capacity fill = same for both drives).

Good catch. I'm liking the RAID version as I'll be running 4 disks in the external back up box in a RAID5. Reading from the promotional blurbs.. those thinga ma jiggles make the transfer speeds double yes? instead of ~300MB/s I'd get ~600MB/s, correct? But… (obvious black hole in my knowledge base, and being intellectually curious) this goes in one of two PCI slots, and there is one pci slot that is a 4 lane, and one that is an 8 lane?

Unfortunately, you won't get 600MB/s for a few reasons (bottlenecks due to the specifications).

1. The card is a single PCIe Gen 2.0 = 500MB/s max over the PCIe slot. Unfortunately, this isn't the slowest bottleneck, so it will be worse.
2. The Qx2 is spec'd out at SATA 3.0Gb/s, and the best real world throughput over 3.0Gb/s is ~270 - 275MB/s.
3. There will be a bit of overhead with the controller (built to be cheap, not performance oriented), so it will probably be less. I'd figure 200 - 250MB/s realistically (actual disks used will have a notable effect on this).

But it's sufficient for a backup solution, and it's inexpensive. BTW, make sure it's attached to the UPS as well.

 

[JulianBoolean]

Thanks for above info and follow up, much appreciated.

Q: I'm guessing the cache upgrade to 4GB on the card is for faster reads/writes? This is like ram?

Q: I'm guessing the Battery Back up thingy option on the card is for power failure?

-Julian

 

[JulianBoolean]

If you are getting all that gear from OWC you could ask them >

Good idea, thanks.

 

[nanofrog]

Q: I'm guessing the cache upgrade to 4GB on the card is for faster reads/writes? This is like ram?

Yes.

The larger cache can allow the system to move data to be written to the card, and allow the system to keep running. This can help with large files up to the capacity limit of the DIMM (4GB is currently the largest capacity available right now, but will be able to handle 8GB sticks when available).

Q: I'm guessing the Battery Back up thingy option on the card is for power failure?

Yes.

It keeps the data stored on the cache active in the even there's a power outage (UPS runs out of power). It's not fool-proof, as you can find yourself in a situation that the processed data is larger than the cache, and the application cannot automatically resume (pick up where it left off). In such cases, there will be a need to re-perform work that was running when the power was lost.

BTW, you can use the Multi Quote icon (far right; see below for the image), and reply to multiple posts in one (there's a rule on this, so it will keep the mods happy).

 

[JulianBoolean]

Nanofrog - Your reply below was in response to this question: "Is there something else (instead of the Areca 1800) that I could hook three SSDs into, and get some write times that would kinda look like there's 3 ssds in there and not two?"

Areca and ATTO Technologies (R6xx series). Of the two companies, Areca is a better price/performance ratio (extremely similar performance, cheaper, and even better, Areca will include Fan-out cables per internal connector on the card). ATTO makes a non-RAID version (H6xx series), which is cheaper, but you'd have to use Disk Utility to create the RAID set (physically, they look nearly identical, but they're not; the H series doesn't have the RAID processor or recovery options that go with it). But it is cheaper (need to verify if it will boot EFI (I'd think so, but it's not explicitly stated), but it does have drivers for OS X.

Other options are just SATA cards, and those that are 6.0Gb/s compliant, are 2 port eSATA versions (none yet with internal SATA ports that have OS X drivers). The 4 port SATA versions are all still 3.0Gb/s.

Sadly, there's just not a lot of options right now (may never be, as the MP market is rather small).

So... If it turns out that the 1800ix16 card does jive with 3x RAID0 SSDs, some plan B options would be those you've listed above.

Question: But would those options be in addition to, or instead of, the 1800ix16? I'm not hip to how these thingys plug into the 2 avail PCIe slots.

Thanks!

 

[nanofrog]

Nanofrog - Your reply below was in response to this question: "Is there something else (instead of the Areca 1800) that I could hook three SSDs into, and get some write times that would kinda look like there's 3 ssds in there and not two?"



So... If it turns out that the 1800ix16 card does jive with 3x RAID0 SSDs, some plan B options would be those you've listed above.

Question: But would those options be in addition to, or instead of, the 1800ix16? I'm not hip to how these thingys plug into the 2 avail PCIe slots.

Thanks!

They're separate cards (not used in tandem, but as alternatives to what we've discussed before).

They come in 2x basic "flavors"; RAID, and non-RAID HBA (HBA = Host Bus Adapter). The first version (RAID), have separate processors, cache, and the firmware to handle RAID levels (that cannot be done on the MP or XServe without such a card, as Disk Utility is limited to 0/1/10). The second (non-RAID), is essentially a SAS/SATA card (really good one, but there's no RAID functions; it will however work with Disk Utility to do 0/1/10 at a light/small expense of system usage to handle the RAID functions/calculations,...).

So a non-RAID HBA has it's uses (i.e. less expensive way to get SSD's on 6.0Gb/s ports than one of the 6.0Gb/s RAID cards), but the for an 8 port model, you can get the RAID version for ~$150USD more (gives you more options in terms of RAID levels and features <recovery and transferability>, as well as takes the load off of the system).

For Atto's products, there's the R series = RAID (i.e. R608), and the H series = non-RAID version (i.e. H608). Be careful, as the letter is the distinction in the model number, though the price is also a major clue (H models are cheaper).

In the case of Areca, they've 6.0Gb/s RAID cards out (1880 series), but no 6.0Gb/s non-RAID units yet (they do have 3.0Gb/s non-RAID versions; ATTO went the reverse, so the H models came out first).

Hope this helps.

 

[JulianBoolean]

They're separate cards (not used in tandem, but as alternatives to what we've discussed before).

They come in 2x basic "flavors"; RAID, and non-RAID HBA (HBA = Host Bus Adapter). The first version (RAID), have separate processors, cache, and the firmware to handle RAID levels (that cannot be done on the MP or XServe without such a card, as Disk Utility is limited to 0/1/10). The second (non-RAID), is essentially a SAS/SATA card (really good one, but there's no RAID functions; it will however work with Disk Utility to do 0/1/10 at a light/small expense of system usage to handle the RAID functions/calculations,...).

So a non-RAID HBA has it's uses (i.e. less expensive way to get SSD's on 6.0Gb/s ports than one of the 6.0Gb/s RAID cards), but the for an 8 port model, you can get the RAID version for ~$150USD more (gives you more options in terms of RAID levels and features <recovery and transferability>, as well as takes the load off of the system).

For Atto's products, there's the R series = RAID (i.e. R608), and the H series = non-RAID version (i.e. H608). Be careful, as the letter is the distinction in the model number, though the price is also a major clue (H models are cheaper).

In the case of Areca, they've 6.0Gb/s RAID cards out (1880 series), but no 6.0Gb/s non-RAID units yet (they do have 3.0Gb/s non-RAID versions; ATTO went the reverse, so the H models came out first).

Hope this helps.

Awesome, this makes total sense! I'm often missing the meaning behind acronyms, having that stuff spelled out really helps me. Thanks for your continued assistance.

- Julian

 

[nanofrog]

Awesome, this makes total sense! I'm often missing the meaning behind acronyms, having that stuff spelled out really helps me. Thanks for your continued assistance.

- Julian

NP.