Anyone had trouble with Apple Pay on Pre-Orders?

noobinator

macrumors 603
Original poster
Jun 19, 2009
6,305
5,260
Pasadena, CA
I ordered with Apple Pay in the past and had a problem and was curious if any of you had encountered the same. I think I didn't get in the fastest batch so my delivery was like 2-3 weeks. So an initial pending charge hit the CC associated with my Apple Pay. It dropped off a few days later.

Then when my order was ready to ship they tried to charge me again but it failed and I got an email. The Apple rep said something about since I did it with Apple Pay the number that was generated was a one time use number when I placed the order. Then when my order went to ship the original number that was generated was denied because it was a 1 use number. I'm going by memory but this is similar to what they said.

They said no matter how many times they tried to hit my CC it would fail. So they allowed me to give them a new CC number but this pushed me to the back of the line. This caused me to get my item like 5-6 weeks after this and they said there was nothing they could do.

Anyone ever had any similar issues or maybe it was a glitch of some sort and the rep had no clue what was going on?
 

Macalway

macrumors 68030
Aug 7, 2013
2,718
1,093
Then when my order was ready to ship they tried to charge me again but it failed and I got an email.
Why did it fail a second time?

The problem sounds like its was rejected for lack of funds (we need more details)
 

noobinator

macrumors 603
Original poster
Jun 19, 2009
6,305
5,260
Pasadena, CA
Why did it fail a second time? Sound just like any ol credit charge, with drop off and final withdraw.

The problem sounds like its was rejected for lack of funds (we need more details)
It's a CC with a $10k limit tied to apple pay and never has more than $100 or so balance on it. The denial reason was the number they were using Apple Pay generated number of some sort was no longer valid because it was a 1 use number. Like it generates a CC number or something? Not sure how this all works. They just said, they kept trying to charge my initial Apple Pay account and they got a failure. It may have just been a glitch but it annoyed me and was worrisome for future apple pay purchases.
 

FoxD

macrumors 6502a
Apr 28, 2010
503
247
I did too, Apple Pay sometimes will fail because we had a zip code change years ago. It works fine half the time, other times it says wrong information and I have to redo it....sucks, made me miss iPhone 7 at launch last year.
 

Macalway

macrumors 68030
Aug 7, 2013
2,718
1,093
It's a CC with a $10k limit tied to apple pay and never has more than $100 or so balance on it. The denial reason was the number they were using Apple Pay generated number of some sort was no longer valid because it was a 1 use number. Like it generates a CC number or something? Not sure how this all works. They just said, they kept trying to charge my initial Apple Pay account and they got a failure. It may have just been a glitch but it annoyed me and was worrisome for future apple pay purchases.
Yikes, sound like a cluster F. We all need more info. Hopefully, this is a fluke, as it happens, although hopefully vary rarely.
 

rsxmachine

macrumors 6502a
Dec 19, 2007
591
75
maybe apple pay not worth the risk and just do other payment method, its just one more click
 

Macalway

macrumors 68030
Aug 7, 2013
2,718
1,093
I did too, Apple Pay sometimes will fail because we had a zip code change years ago. It works fine half the time, other times it says wrong information and I have to redo it....sucks, made me miss iPhone 7 at launch last year.
thanks

Very useful info. So in other words, with a sensitive purchase (and this certainly qualifies), it may be wise to avoid this method.
[doublepost=1508858161][/doublepost]
maybe apple pay not worth the risk and just do other payment method, its just one more click
looks like it. We may have dogged a bullet.
 

noobinator

macrumors 603
Original poster
Jun 19, 2009
6,305
5,260
Pasadena, CA
I'm not saying don't use Apple Pay since it's obviously the fastest. I may have been the only person this has ever happened to. :D Lucky me.
 

rsxmachine

macrumors 6502a
Dec 19, 2007
591
75
I'm not saying don't use Apple Pay since it's obviously the fastest. I may have been the only person this has ever happened to. :D Lucky me.
The thing is your logic makes sense, it is a one time number generated but there must be a fail safe in place to allow for this. if you couldn't re-use the number once authorized how could you return a purchase.
 

Macalway

macrumors 68030
Aug 7, 2013
2,718
1,093
I'm not saying don't use Apple Pay since it's obviously the fastest. I may have been the only person this has ever happened to. :D Lucky me.
It does save a number of steps. I may use it anyway, as I don't really care. I just sort of like the game. I've practiced the steps. I'm pretty quick....thanks :D So if they **** it up, whatever. Only problem is iOS 11 on my 6+ is pretty bad (makes me wonder if that's intentional :D )
 

noobinator

macrumors 603
Original poster
Jun 19, 2009
6,305
5,260
Pasadena, CA
The thing is your logic makes sense, it is a one time number generated but there must be a fail safe in place to allow for this. if you couldn't re-use the number once authorized how could you return a purchase.
Yeah that's what's so confusing to me. I was thinking there is no way someone at Apple didn't think of this and allow for this to happen seamlessly. And if it was a huge issue I'm guessing we would have heard about it more often than this one thread I just created.
 

ssrij

Suspended
Dec 16, 2016
644
474
United Kingdom
The thing is your logic makes sense, it is a one time number generated but there must be a fail safe in place to allow for this. if you couldn't re-use the number once authorized how could you return a purchase.
There's a Device Account Number that's specific to your device, created by the bank when you add a card, which is used to locate transactions - so it's used when you want to return something, as this can be used to track the purchase back to you by the retailer (i.e Apple in this case). Apple doesn't store your card details, just the DAN, in the Secure Enclave.

When you pay for something, a transaction-specific dynamic code is used for authorisation. Now, those codes are different for each transaction, so Apple (or anyone else) can't use the same code or authorisation to charge you for something more than once or charge you for something else.

That explains why people have had issues with Apple Pay, because the transaction-specific dynamic code cannot be used to authenticate the transaction again. It gets authenticated when you pre-order, which is when Apple places a hold or deduct $1/£1 from your card for verification or to ensure the funds are there, so the same code cannot be used to charge the card again.
 

Givmeabrek

macrumors 68040
Apr 20, 2009
3,378
1,046
NY
So preordering with Apple Pay will not work if the item is shipped after the original $1 drops off of the account??
Sounds like a problem to me....
 

Macalway

macrumors 68030
Aug 7, 2013
2,718
1,093
There's a Device Account Number that's specific to your device, created by the bank when you add a card, which is used to locate transactions - so it's used when you want to return something, as this can be used to track the purchase back to you by the retailer (i.e Apple in this case). Apple doesn't store your card details, just the DAN, in the Secure Enclave.

When you pay for something, a transaction-specific dynamic code is used for authorisation. Now, those codes are different for each transaction, so Apple (or anyone else) can't use the same code or authorisation to charge you for something more than once or charge you for something else.

That explains why people have had issues with Apple Pay, because the transaction-specific dynamic code cannot be used to authenticate the transaction again. It gets authenticated when you pre-order, which is when Apple places a hold or deduct $1/£1 from your card for verification or to ensure the funds are there, so the same code cannot be used to charge the card again.

I doesn't seem possible that this could be this broken, as what you're suggesting is a non-functional, random process.

So what should we do, any advice?
 

noobinator

macrumors 603
Original poster
Jun 19, 2009
6,305
5,260
Pasadena, CA
So preordering with Apple Pay will not work if the item is shipped after the original $1 drops off of the account??
Sounds like a problem to me....
That's what it sounds like based on what ssrij wrote and my experience. However, I'm highly doubtful this is actually the case. Wouldn't we have heard about this last year? Surely Apple would not allow this to happen? I'll keep hoping mine was a glitch and Apple has this all figured out!
 

Macalway

macrumors 68030
Aug 7, 2013
2,718
1,093
That's what it sounds like based on what ssrij wrote and my experience. However, I'm highly doubtful this is actually the case. Wouldn't we have heard about this last year? Surely Apple would not allow this to happen? I'll keep hoping mine was a glitch and Apple has this all figured out!
this

Doesn't seem possible. Fortunately, we have a few days to research this (keep this thread alive)
 

haqsha23

macrumors 6502a
Oct 22, 2017
696
493
Mississauga
i'm using a gift card with the full amount of the phone already on it and i've already uploaded it to my wallet. I purchased something else using the same method and while it adds a good 5-10 seconds, credit card/apple pay is one less thing i have to worry about. While there could also be issues with paying with a gift card, I've had enough credit card transactions randomly decline over the years that I won't take that risk (and no, not insufficient funds, it was always a CC company error that i had no control over).
 

rsxmachine

macrumors 6502a
Dec 19, 2007
591
75
I have looked at some other sites where companies have disabled apple pay for pre order purchases since they can only charge once. It's possible since apple created apple pay they have a work around set up in their system, but its concerning especially if someone mentioned it. Furthermore, apple did nothing for the OP. Apple should have shipped one immediately to OP.
 

Givmeabrek

macrumors 68040
Apr 20, 2009
3,378
1,046
NY
It's pretty clear that Apple Pay is not the solution for ordering quicker. I hope I'm proven wrong on this one....
 

ray737

macrumors 6502
Sep 11, 2014
413
163
I ordered with Apple Pay in the past and had a problem and was curious if any of you had encountered the same. I think I didn't get in the fastest batch so my delivery was like 2-3 weeks. So an initial pending charge hit the CC associated with my Apple Pay. It dropped off a few days later.

Then when my order was ready to ship they tried to charge me again but it failed and I got an email. The Apple rep said something about since I did it with Apple Pay the number that was generated was a one time use number when I placed the order. Then when my order went to ship the original number that was generated was denied because it was a 1 use number. I'm going by memory but this is similar to what they said.

They said no matter how many times they tried to hit my CC it would fail. So they allowed me to give them a new CC number but this pushed me to the back of the line. This caused me to get my item like 5-6 weeks after this and they said there was nothing they could do.

Anyone ever had any similar issues or maybe it was a glitch of some sort and the rep had no clue what was going on?
I have been using Apple Pay for several of my Apple products using the Apple Store app and have had NO problems at all. My air pods were pending for a few weeks then I was charged once it was to be shipped. No issues at all.