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Anyone here waiting for the M5 Apple Vision Pro?
- Thread starter 212rikanmofo
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I'm likely going to wait for the Vision Air/SE whatever they may call it, and for a few reasons:
1) It will almost certainly have far better radios, and this includes 5G capabilities. This will also make it far more accessible to millions more thanks to subsidization and deals at carriers. Think about it. How many people do think are actually paying $450-900 for a watch versus those that get it subsidized on a phone plan? This will likely be the same case for the Vision Air/SE
2) Apple will likely encourage people to walk, possibly even jog with the Vision Air/SE in stuff like the fitness app. The Vision Air will be far, far slimmer and likely even come with an arm strap, or longer cord to have in your pocket or clip to your belt. If it's made mostly of plastic, possibly with glass lenses where needed, and metal inside where needed for structure and functionality, we would get something significantly lighter, possibly as light as an iPhone 16 or lighter, but that would be the weight of the whole thing, minus the battery/CPU combination which I would assume is what they are doing.
3) It will likely be better than the current AVP (M2) thanks to the fact that the chip that will power it likely will be the new 2NM process, and will match the ram at 16GB. If the 16 Pro Max is almost as fast as a M1 Mac, it stands to reason this will be the same way if it comes out next year, or the year after.
4) AVP is a very niche product. I think this could be a plus depending on how much of an Apple fanboy you are, as it was all a "niche" back in the day with us. Still, even back then we had a hell of a lot more we could do with our Macs. I learned HTML, PHP, MySQL, Photoshop, started a business, learned Objective-C, made my first app, etc etc etc on my first Mac back in 2003. Much of what makes the AVP super cool and makes you wow, you can do inside the Apple Store and trust me man, they really don't care how long you mess around with it. I do it for at least half an hour every time I go into the Apple Store, all my info is saved and ready to go from the times before. The market as a whole is still incredibly very niche even though every company that competes in it now is incredibly high profile. I think the M5 AVP may spur interest with developers much more and we will start seeing a slow trickle, but it won't really ramp up until rumors or hints from Apple at a consumer version is coming. But hey if you have over $4k burning a hole in your pocket (the price it would be after taxes and their insanely expensive AppleCare+) then by all means go ahead and buy it.
5) Which brings me to my last point I can think of off the top of my head and that's price. The Air will certainly be $2k, likely closer to $1500, and this is with modems, and likely far better battery life in a package that is lighter and better than the original AVP which is probably the best AR/VR product you can currently buy. Even better, as I said before it is not just likely but guaranteed that this product gets subsidized by carriers.
I don't hate the AVP I just hate things about it, and there are things that it has to overcome that all headsets also have to overcome that it just hasn't yet. I don't know, if there was a surprise $1k price drop, along with the upgrade to M5, then honestly I would say go for it, but all the rumors seem to say no price drops are happening. Hell if there is a price drop and it goes down to $2500 I might even consider it, but I really doubt that happens with its current over engineered, decadent design.
1) It will almost certainly have far better radios, and this includes 5G capabilities. This will also make it far more accessible to millions more thanks to subsidization and deals at carriers. Think about it. How many people do think are actually paying $450-900 for a watch versus those that get it subsidized on a phone plan? This will likely be the same case for the Vision Air/SE
2) Apple will likely encourage people to walk, possibly even jog with the Vision Air/SE in stuff like the fitness app. The Vision Air will be far, far slimmer and likely even come with an arm strap, or longer cord to have in your pocket or clip to your belt. If it's made mostly of plastic, possibly with glass lenses where needed, and metal inside where needed for structure and functionality, we would get something significantly lighter, possibly as light as an iPhone 16 or lighter, but that would be the weight of the whole thing, minus the battery/CPU combination which I would assume is what they are doing.
3) It will likely be better than the current AVP (M2) thanks to the fact that the chip that will power it likely will be the new 2NM process, and will match the ram at 16GB. If the 16 Pro Max is almost as fast as a M1 Mac, it stands to reason this will be the same way if it comes out next year, or the year after.
4) AVP is a very niche product. I think this could be a plus depending on how much of an Apple fanboy you are, as it was all a "niche" back in the day with us. Still, even back then we had a hell of a lot more we could do with our Macs. I learned HTML, PHP, MySQL, Photoshop, started a business, learned Objective-C, made my first app, etc etc etc on my first Mac back in 2003. Much of what makes the AVP super cool and makes you wow, you can do inside the Apple Store and trust me man, they really don't care how long you mess around with it. I do it for at least half an hour every time I go into the Apple Store, all my info is saved and ready to go from the times before. The market as a whole is still incredibly very niche even though every company that competes in it now is incredibly high profile. I think the M5 AVP may spur interest with developers much more and we will start seeing a slow trickle, but it won't really ramp up until rumors or hints from Apple at a consumer version is coming. But hey if you have over $4k burning a hole in your pocket (the price it would be after taxes and their insanely expensive AppleCare+) then by all means go ahead and buy it.
5) Which brings me to my last point I can think of off the top of my head and that's price. The Air will certainly be $2k, likely closer to $1500, and this is with modems, and likely far better battery life in a package that is lighter and better than the original AVP which is probably the best AR/VR product you can currently buy. Even better, as I said before it is not just likely but guaranteed that this product gets subsidized by carriers.
I don't hate the AVP I just hate things about it, and there are things that it has to overcome that all headsets also have to overcome that it just hasn't yet. I don't know, if there was a surprise $1k price drop, along with the upgrade to M5, then honestly I would say go for it, but all the rumors seem to say no price drops are happening. Hell if there is a price drop and it goes down to $2500 I might even consider it, but I really doubt that happens with its current over engineered, decadent design.
I'm waiting for the AVP
Apple Vision Poverty
Which is likely the one that will be priced where I can stomach it.
Apple Vision Poverty
Which is likely the one that will be priced where I can stomach it.
I'm strongly considering one. I expect the M5 to provide a number of benefits-- efficiency for one, but AI advantages as well. AVP and visual intelligence make an interesting pairing. It's amazing what they've managed to do with an M2, and M5 will be a significant leap.
A niche product, as you say, with a desktop processor and a whole slate of additional features, weighing and costing what an iPhone costs? Not a chance. I'm pretty sure they're already selling the AVP at low-for-Apple margins to seed it into the market.
A niche product, as you say, with a desktop processor and a whole slate of additional features, weighing and costing what an iPhone costs? Not a chance. I'm pretty sure they're already selling the AVP at low-for-Apple margins to seed it into the market.
They definitely aren't selling it for low margins. The price was the most surprising thing about AVP. It was significantly more expensive than anyone predicted. Also the next ones will not have desktop processors but rather iPhone processors. A $2000-1500 Apple Vision is almost certainly going to happen by the end of 2027, and what's more as I said it will be subsidized for most people when they buy it.
Appreciate it man. I 100% am interested in the Apple Vision market. It's all about it getting to a price that I'm willing to deal with and If I'm willing to deal with a certain price, then that means most will want at least that price if not lower. If I'm being honest I thought the AVP was going to be $2k. I just don't see this thing truly taking off unless it's super cheap or heavily subsidized. With Apple working on their own radio chips now, I would be shocked if the AV Air/SE doesn't have a custom Apple radio chip in it. I wouldn't be surprised if the way they market their full radio chip was with the latest Apple Vision product in fact.
You are confusing price with margin. AVP lacks the economy of scale of the iPhone and probably the Mac. How you're going to get more functionality than an iPhone, in package significantly harder to manufacture than an iPhone, with more physical material than an iPhone, at significantly lower volumes than an iPhone at prices in line with an iPhone is beyond me.
$3500 wasn't far from the speculation leading up the the release. It wasn't a surprise.
https://advisorator.com/members/2024/11/19/beware-of-carrier-ipad-and-apple-watch-deals/
There's really no advantage for 5G on a mostly indoor device... Some of us may opt for cellular options, just as some do for watches and iPads, but the added cost of the plan would make these less affordable rather than more affordable.
Not sure what your whole argument is here. There definitely is more cellular watches out there than there are non-cellular, sure technically they cost more, but to someone splitting the cost out for a few years, it's just $20-40 a month for them to have an $800 watch that there is no way in hell they would get in any other circumstances. Same thing will happen here if it's an "indoor device" (whatever that means) or not.
M2 or M5 doesn’t fundamentally change the usefulness or social acceptance of the product. I doubt many people are waiting for it.
Yup. Was hoping for a Gen 2 but it seems it's still a long way off, especially if we actually do get an M5 update which might lend some credence to Kuo's timeline. In which case I'll just get this Gen 1 version while I wait for an "Air."
If the M5 also boasts improved battery life then I'm more likely to get it. I need to figure out the size though. All the facial interfaces I tried were uncomfy.
If the M5 also boasts improved battery life then I'm more likely to get it. I need to figure out the size though. All the facial interfaces I tried were uncomfy.
What’s your take on meta? They might release a very slim quest pro next year.
I don’t really like their software at all. I just don’t want to wait until 2027 for Apple to release a cheaper headset.
The meta quest pro 2 might have a very slim profile with a wireless connected puck for cpu and such for under 1k price tag
My argument is that you keep asserting things with great certainty without backing up your statements. Do you have any evidnece that there are more cellular vs. non-cellular watches? $800 is the list price of an Ultra 2. Do you think that's what most people are buying? An SE is $250-280. $20-40 a month for 3 years is $520 to $1040.
The AVP is not something people are likely going to wear walking the streets, that's what I mean by an "indoor device".
Nothing you're saying is backed by any sort of logic that I can see-- you're simply asserting what you wish the world would be and then saying "guaranteed".
I am. If you remember, there was a lot of commentary at the time AVP released that it was 4 or 5 months after the M3 reached the market and wasn't using the latest hardware. Adding more dedicated AVP functionality in the chip will make the AVP a more capable product. A lot of people avoid first gen hardware, so this will satisfy them. I'm not really interested in it doing anything significantly different than it does now, but I missed the initial wave and it makes sense to wait for the next one. As I said, more AI capability in a headset that sees everything around you has a lot of potential.
Yesterday's M4 news makes more sense. As I said, M2 or M5 makes no practical difference. The success/failure of this Gen 1 form factor has already been determined.
Updating to M4 is relatively cheap and avoids VP becoming a brown banana. Instead of wasting R&D efforts on integrating M5, Apple's efforts are better spent on Vision Air and Gen 2 VP.
Updating to M4 is relatively cheap and avoids VP becoming a brown banana. Instead of wasting R&D efforts on integrating M5, Apple's efforts are better spent on Vision Air and Gen 2 VP.
Well it's just common sense really. When AVP first came out, I made a thread called what will the Vision SE/Air be? A lot of people thought it was stupid to assume such a product would be possible in the timeframe I gave and oh would ya look at that lots of analyst are predicting something very similar, at a similar time.
As for the watch, best info I can find from an analyst firm in from the time of the Series 3, before Apple offered the watch as an option that didn't need a phone, but makes much more sense with data (for kids), and they estimated at the time a third of Apple's sales came from carrier contracts. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/wir...-all-apple-watches-us-last-quarter-2018-02-21
Also I never said the AVP. Of course the AVP isn't something you should wear out and about and Apple warns against it. But it would be much more attractive to consumers if say, it works for fitness, or even AR experiences such as Pokemon Go in a lighter plastic model. Their future modems, advancements in miniaturization, etc etc. I thought it was obvious Apple would do this? I'll tell you what, come back here when they announce the Apple Vision Air/SE whatever they call it and we'll see how right (or wrong) I am.
It’s always interesting to me to read about what people are hoping for from Apple in future releases.
MacRumors often quotes industry experts with access to supply chains or internal Apple people.
Many of us enjoy speculating what Apple might do. To me the most interesting and often convincing posts offer some sort of reasoning behind their statements. When AVP released, many speculated about a non-Pro version in the future because Apple chose to call this one a Pro model. It’s pretty likely, for example, Apple will use the M5 in the next iPad Pro because new models typically get new processors. The reasoning behind both examples is stated explicitly.
Some of the statements in your posts seem to be written with great certainty and little stated reasoning which could be misleading to some. If you’re just speculating like the rest of us, you might consider stating that and provide your reasoning behind those statements. You wouldn’t want readers to assume you know more than others. But, if you do have a friend at Apple or some other source then that would be good to know.
I don't have any want for the M5 Vision Pro. I don't use the AVP for anything with 3D processing really. I use it for movies and as an extended display for PS5/PC/Mac's. Now when they come out with the lighter one I might be really interested depending on the price and how much lighter it is. With the current roadmap of Apple's Vision devices, I'm pretty happy with my launch purchase of the AVP. I think getting 3+ years out of the AVP is perfect.
If this was £1000, I’d be interested. At £4,000 (base spec with AppleCare+) it’s a big “no” from me.
M2 or M5 doesn’t fundamentally change the usefulness or social acceptance of the product. I doubt many people are waiting for it.
Once you experience large applications windows in AR you will hate working on a regular screen or laptop.