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Anyone here waiting for the M5 Apple Vision Pro?
- Thread starter 212rikanmofo
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Would it not make sense to get rid of your Vision Pro as soon as possible.
With an M4 version before the end of the year, which will have 50% more CPU and 400% more GPU power.
No-one is going to want the 1st gen M2 model unless its priced really low.
With an M4 version before the end of the year, which will have 50% more CPU and 400% more GPU power.
No-one is going to want the 1st gen M2 model unless its priced really low.
You lose a lot of money that way. Would it make sense to get rid of an M2 MBA to get M4? In most cases, absolutely not because you’d lose about $500 in the process without much gain. Nothing has fundamentally changed with M4.
Well, yes, you what you could sell a Vision Pro for today, will be a LOT more than what you will be able to sell it for a little while after they launch of the M4 model.
Think What Apple will be able to make the headset do, with 4x the GPU power and 50% faster CPU power.
That's a GIANT jump in ability right there.
Once a few products come out that look/perform great on the M4 Vision pro are talked about that either don't run, or run poorly on the current model, no-one is going to want to touch the current 1st gen model.
Think how the 1st Gen Apple watch was regarded after it got replaced.
There's no way Apple (and devs) are going to have Four times the Graphical performance and 50% faster processing power, and not use it to it's full advantage.
What you've described is a solution in search of a problem.
There are no current apps that fail to run on Vision Pro due to performance. Nor are there killer apps that would run on M4 but not M2.
Fundamentally, nothing changes by having M4. There still needs to be a fan. Battery life will still be mediocre. The core VP experience is the same. This is similar to building M4 Ultra for MacBook Pro. It doesn't fundamentally change what can be done on Mac.
Also, the M4 GPU is only 20% faster than M2 in most cases and maybe up to 60% in extreme scenarios.
My 1st gen AVP will continue to do everything it's doing now after the M4 or M5 version is released. And the market is likely to remain small until there's a less expensive, lighter model, which is rumored to be at least another year off. Apple and third-party developers aren't likely to produce much software that doesn't support the M2 AVP for awhile.
I had the Series 0 Apple Watch for a few years, and it served me well until I upgraded. Similarly, my M1 MacBook Air still does everything what I need it to, despite several available upgrades since 2020.
We also don't yet know how much the revised AVP will cost and exactly when it'll be sold, so getting rid of a perfectly functioning 1st gen AVP now makes no sense to me.
Sorry, but can't quite follow you logic here.
To say no apps that have been written yet fail on the current model is simply because why would anyone knowing write an app that can't run on the current model! LOL.
When the new model comes out THEN people will be able to write apps that can use the extra power, and only then will we start to see the difference.
Regards how much better, well... I was only going by what Apple officially Quote (and they tell the truth don't they
)"Apple claims up to 50% more CPU performance and 4× more GPU performance on the M4 compared to the M2. "
Indeed, and I agree, as a dev, most are going to wish to be sure their apps run well on both the 1st and the new gen model.
Of course, that does mean, the M4 version may have a higher framerate, or the visual quality may be better.
Perhaps the Realistic Avatars will be higher quality when running on a M4 as opposed to an M2
I know if I was in the market and the M4 had just come out, there is no way I'd want the current model whatsoever, as all the new software will then start improving to take advantage of the new model, which is what I'd want.
Agreed, but you asked if it would "make sense to get rid of your Vision Pro as soon as possible," partly because the resale price of the current AVP will drop when the new one comes out. But that's not the same as making an informed decision after the M4 or M5 version is released and we know the price of a used AVP, the cost of the new one, and we find out if the faster hardware will make a real-world difference.
Sorry, but can't quite follow you logic here.
To say no apps that have been written yet fail on the current model is simply because why would anyone knowing write an app that can't run on the current model! LOL.
When the new model comes out THEN people will be able to write apps that can use the extra power, and only then will we start to see the difference.
Regards how much better, well... I was only going by what Apple officially Quote (and they tell the truth don't they
"Apple claims up to 50% more CPU performance and 4× more GPU performance on the M4 compared to the M2. "
Because app development doesn't work like the way you think.
If app can't run on M2, developers use low-fi elements, e.g. simpler graphics, reduced physics, less accurate AI models for M2. When M4 becomes available, the M4-level features are activated. This allows first to market.
M2 is M4 is an iterative upgrade. This is like thinking iPhone 17 is going to unlock apps that were impossible with iPhone 15.
Think of what Apple could do with ipad when they kept upgrading the chip. Basically nothing. I don't expect much from Apple in "think what they can do with M4 vision pro". Apple has to show it first..
I fully agree with one point.....
It all totally depends on Apple and what aspects of the M4 they allow to be used/unlocked.
The could quite easily do very little, and just use the M4 to increase battery life.
To be honest, I'd be surprised if this is all they did.
If you think back to the 1st Apple watch, almost everyone was convinced it was going to be around for years, some suggesting Apple may offer upgrades (internals) to the first loyal? customers.
But no, they dropped it like a stone, Much like the 1st iPad got dropped way faster than any other model.
the 1st models of each were almost experiments.
Of course, none of this will be known until perhaps a year+ from now, when the Vision Pro M2 and M4 versions are still pretty much the same, or the M4 will have apps that can do things that won't run at all, or won't run very well, or at as nice a quality / frame-rate on the original M2 model.
It's a gamble....
If not much happens, then the current model will still hold it's value pretty well.
If there are many articles over the next 12 months about how much nicer the M4 version is to own, the pass-thru quality, the frame-rates, the apps that don't run well on the M2 version, then it's not going to be wanted as much as now.
Going to be interesting to see if Apple really tries to push harder with what the upgraded model, possibly coming in a few months will be able/allowed to do.
It all totally depends on Apple and what aspects of the M4 they allow to be used/unlocked.
The could quite easily do very little, and just use the M4 to increase battery life.
To be honest, I'd be surprised if this is all they did.
If you think back to the 1st Apple watch, almost everyone was convinced it was going to be around for years, some suggesting Apple may offer upgrades (internals) to the first loyal? customers.
But no, they dropped it like a stone, Much like the 1st iPad got dropped way faster than any other model.
the 1st models of each were almost experiments.
Of course, none of this will be known until perhaps a year+ from now, when the Vision Pro M2 and M4 versions are still pretty much the same, or the M4 will have apps that can do things that won't run at all, or won't run very well, or at as nice a quality / frame-rate on the original M2 model.
It's a gamble....
If not much happens, then the current model will still hold it's value pretty well.
If there are many articles over the next 12 months about how much nicer the M4 version is to own, the pass-thru quality, the frame-rates, the apps that don't run well on the M2 version, then it's not going to be wanted as much as now.
Going to be interesting to see if Apple really tries to push harder with what the upgraded model, possibly coming in a few months will be able/allowed to do.
For most owners, a new chip is absolutely not worth selling/trading the current AVP. Anyone who actually uses the device already has an aftermarket head strap. Maybe they re-hired the ux employee that suggested “how about a head strap that doesn’t hurt the user after a few minutes?” The current device isn’t slow by any means and usage won’t change much. There are better ways to burn 1-2k dollars. Buy that orange iPhone instead.
Thanks to all for the interesting viewpoints.
I'm going to be very interested to see just how Apple plays this mid-cycle refresh, which we know isn't the next gen model, where bigger physical changes are expected.
Whether they just go for the Battery life, and a little crisper visuals type of comments, or they play up in a big way the power gains, and what they will now be able to do that was not possible on the 1st M2 model.
I don't suppose they want to annoy the early buyers, but then again, that are going to want to push the envelope of what's possible, and show what the new model is capable of.
Going to be really fun to see how they handle it.
I'm going to be very interested to see just how Apple plays this mid-cycle refresh, which we know isn't the next gen model, where bigger physical changes are expected.
Whether they just go for the Battery life, and a little crisper visuals type of comments, or they play up in a big way the power gains, and what they will now be able to do that was not possible on the 1st M2 model.
I don't suppose they want to annoy the early buyers, but then again, that are going to want to push the envelope of what's possible, and show what the new model is capable of.
Going to be really fun to see how they handle it.
Look at the way Vision Pro is marketed. Scroll the product page. The M2 chip isn't mentioned until the bottom of the page. Why? Because it's not marketed as a heavy duty computer. It's about delivering a smooth user experience. M4 won't change this message.
Vision Pro is a wearable like Watch. M4 will not be front and center. S10 SiP isn't front and center.
There is no power efficiency gain with M4. If you look at MacBook Air, the M2 and M4 have the same 18 hour battery life.
Apple will simply push AI and reinforce the existing spatial computing message.
Vision Pro is a wearable like Watch. M4 will not be front and center. S10 SiP isn't front and center.
There is no power efficiency gain with M4. If you look at MacBook Air, the M2 and M4 have the same 18 hour battery life.
Apple will simply push AI and reinforce the existing spatial computing message.
Perhaps so....
I guess I find it hard to believe that Apple won't fit an M4 chip in there, which has considerately more power (CPU and GPU) and do nothing with the additional ability.
Surely they will hope at least some current users will wish to have the newer model, so there must be something they are going to say/offer to show the reason why.
M4 keeps it relevant in the news and avoids the perception that Apple is letting it go stale. If app devs were calling for more power because it would enable XYZ killer apps, Apple would gladly stick an M5 in it.
If we look at the complaints about Vision Pro, it boils down to:
- The price tag is too high
- It's uncomfortable
- There aren't enough use cases for it
Apple coming out saying it's 1.6x faster than Vision Pro (M2) doesn't help these complaints. A new strap helps the second point. Adding AI (M4) helps the last point.
Agree, almost everyone agrees, the price is too high for a mass consumer product.
Agree, also that a lot of people complain about the comfort of wearing it.
To be fair, apart from the Big Screen Beyond, no headset is going to be regarded as nice to wear, but of course, Apple did not help with their design and material choices
Also agree, use cases is a BIG thing, Something I'm sure we all hope will change as years go by.
But of course, it's always catch 22. You need lots of units for most devs to want to invest time and money into so they get a good return, but of course, you need the great software to tempt new buyers.
The "Killer App" if you like..
I would still argue that Processing and GPU power are a big hurdle.
Give it the power of the highest end desktop GPU and a RTX 5090, which runs all day on a battery, and just watch the software experiences explode.
Then, vastly more people would see what it can do, and perhaps be willing to invest.
It's been said by many its the sports side which could draw in many normal folks, being able to see your favourite teams play in new ways.
For me personally it's better and better pass thru quality, and a LOT more field of view.
I can put up with the comfort thing for a while
"IF" the experience I get it worth it.
I will admit I'm a little worried, this, and other headsets are a dead end product (and I don't like saying this)
As it's a REAL struggle to get normal people to be interested in them.
Where I work, only a small company admittedly, onto 1 other person has even a Quest headset
Agree, also that a lot of people complain about the comfort of wearing it.
To be fair, apart from the Big Screen Beyond, no headset is going to be regarded as nice to wear, but of course, Apple did not help with their design and material choices
Also agree, use cases is a BIG thing, Something I'm sure we all hope will change as years go by.
But of course, it's always catch 22. You need lots of units for most devs to want to invest time and money into so they get a good return, but of course, you need the great software to tempt new buyers.
The "Killer App" if you like..
I would still argue that Processing and GPU power are a big hurdle.
Give it the power of the highest end desktop GPU and a RTX 5090, which runs all day on a battery, and just watch the software experiences explode.
Then, vastly more people would see what it can do, and perhaps be willing to invest.
It's been said by many its the sports side which could draw in many normal folks, being able to see your favourite teams play in new ways.
For me personally it's better and better pass thru quality, and a LOT more field of view.
I can put up with the comfort thing for a while
"IF" the experience I get it worth it.
I will admit I'm a little worried, this, and other headsets are a dead end product (and I don't like saying this)
As it's a REAL struggle to get normal people to be interested in them.
Where I work, only a small company admittedly, onto 1 other person has even a Quest headset
Any ideas when the AVP M4 announcement will take place? I heard that it will be out by the end of the year.
I'm sure many will do the same as you.
As I said previously.......
It is all going to totally depend if Apple "Allows" the M4 version to have better abilities than the current M2 model.
They may hold it back, and just allow a little few extra frames/sec here, or a little extra clarity there, but nothing that's super obvious.
And only fully unlock/allow new features when the REAL new model, perhaps with a M6 ? in it in another year or two's time.
Only time will tell
Remember we can often be wrong.
Lots of people were wrong with the 1st gen Apple watch, thinking that it would not get replaced very quickly or there would be trade in programs, or upgrade the internals.
So we'll just have to wait and see
I would't want 5G strapped to my head all the time. I've also never met someone with a subsidized watch. Most people buy those outright or give them as gifts.
Well more people than you know probably get them from the likes of Verizon: https://www.fierce-network.com/wireless/verizon-takes-lead-apple-watch-sales-q4
That’s an older article but I’m sure it isn’t much different nowadays.