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Anyone interested in a Hi-def (1920 x 1200) mod for PB/MBP?
- Thread starter baxterbrittle
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ScottSummers said:
It would seem unlikely. The dell screen is a 16:9 or 16:10 display where as the 12" PB is 4:3. Having said that... It may work it's just getting in to the machine that would prove very difficult. One screen that may be possible is the toshiba one that ram 1400 x 1050 or something like that. That would be a nice screen for my 12".
Yeah, good luck with fitting a 16:10 display into a 4:3 housing. You have to remember that the 12" is diagonal. Therefore the height/width of a 4:3 housing is quite different than a 16:10 housing.
I can pretty much guarantee that you can't use a Dell display housing w/ a 12" Powerbook, as Apple's display hinges are quite different than Dell's.
Baxter is getting pretty famous for the PowerBook mod
If only we could get the MBP mod working...
Also, to acknowledge the display dithering issue: I believe dithering is done at a software/driver level, but the Apple display uses dithering as well, so it *shouldn't* be an issue.
I can pretty much guarantee that you can't use a Dell display housing w/ a 12" Powerbook, as Apple's display hinges are quite different than Dell's.
Baxter is getting pretty famous for the PowerBook mod
If only we could get the MBP mod working...Also, to acknowledge the display dithering issue: I believe dithering is done at a software/driver level, but the Apple display uses dithering as well, so it *shouldn't* be an issue.
I see. So the location of the hinges defines the placement of where teh cables are connected?
Did you mean this Toshiba Portege M200?
Did you mean this Toshiba Portege M200?
ScottSummers said:
Yep that's the one I meant. I wonder where I could get hold of one of those? The wacom tablet in the M200 would be nice also - PB 12" 1.33 1400 x 1050 pressure sensitive display.... hmm I'm in if I can find one.
Just a quick note that ever since the digg on this thread there has been quite a bit of talk about this mod on the net. The reason I brought it here to Marumors rather than anywhere else is because this is where I like to hang out. I didn't do it for exposure but for the greater good of Mac users. Having said that it has been suggested to me that I enter the Mod into The Great Mod Challenge at macmod.com - I hesitated but the allure of a possible macmini or other prize really drew me in. I didn't do it for a Mod comp I did the Mod for my own entertainment. Hope none of you are disappointed. On the upside there will be a more detailed how to appearing (hopefully) over there.
I still can't wait to get this going on a MBP - I only wish I had one to experiment with. I'd also like to see the trend continue to 17" PB/MBP 17" iMac etc... a couple of things that I'm working on also should be quite interesting.
baxterbrittle said:
I hope you do find one, because then I can see what you did.
But I've been looking around and wondering if that lcd would be too big for the 12" housing? I mean do lcd displays extend all the way in the housing?
Also since you worked on apple hardware before, do you have any experience with the 12" rev. A, like connectors and such? If mine is too old then, oh well.
Hmmm...
Just had a quick thought: has anyone tried booting off an install CD to see if that works? Wondering if there is something set in the install that carries through somehow. (vague enough? )
I'm mostly thinking to myself: how are the OSx86 people doing it? They are installing OSX on Dell laptops and other various hardware. There has to be something there. I'm going to take a look at the HCL for OSx86 and see what notes people have on a laptop that uses this same display - like the Dell D810 or something.
Just had a quick thought: has anyone tried booting off an install CD to see if that works? Wondering if there is something set in the install that carries through somehow. (vague enough?
)I'm mostly thinking to myself: how are the OSx86 people doing it? They are installing OSX on Dell laptops and other various hardware. There has to be something there. I'm going to take a look at the HCL for OSx86 and see what notes people have on a laptop that uses this same display - like the Dell D810 or something.
For those looking for OSX86, I got 10.4.6 pretty quick from newsgroups, couldn't resist playing around with it on my old Acer notebook. Everything seemed to work great 'out-of-the-box', except for Wifi. That being said, from my limited experience with it, it's probably far less than optimal way of solving this problem. I don't know if everything is going to work on a MBP. But PM me if you can't get a hold of it.
The 14" iBook would benefit greatly from this too, it would be a lot closer to a 15" G4 PB in functionality. It's a shame that the G4 15" uses a non-standard display size...
Finally, Leopard is going to be the icing on the cake with resolution-independent UI!
The 14" iBook would benefit greatly from this too, it would be a lot closer to a 15" G4 PB in functionality. It's a shame that the G4 15" uses a non-standard display size...
Finally, Leopard is going to be the icing on the cake with resolution-independent UI!
twwheeler said:Just had a quick thought: has anyone tried booting off an install CD to see if that works? Wondering if there is something set in the install that carries through somehow. (vague enough?
I'm mostly thinking to myself: how are the OSx86 people doing it? They are installing OSX on Dell laptops and other various hardware. There has to be something there. I'm going to take a look at the HCL for OSx86 and see what notes people have on a laptop that uses this same display - like the Dell D810 or something.
Well, back when I tried OSX86 out on my Dell 1920x1200 display I couldn't get 1920x1200 working at all, only 1600x1200.
But my guess is that it is less OSX86 that's causing the display to work and more OSX86 *failing* to modify the BIOS/EFI options for the color settings (which renders the display working, strangely).
Big update
And at that, a bad update...
I'm presently typing on my disassembled MBP, still haven't put it back together. Sadly, I'm typing w/ my 1440x900 display still.
The Display Override thing indeed did not work and may have actually HINDERED our progress. DO NOT TRY IT! I'm not sure how it happened, but my 1920x1200 display no longer functions properly in Windows now. The screen is now vertically interlaced with white lines (for whatever reason).
I have reset the PRAM, deleted the Override profile, let the computer sit with the battery out... everything I could think of. Still, the problem remains with the display in Windows now. The problem does not seem to affect the (ridiculously messed up) Mac OS X. My guess? Somehow something was written to the BIOS layer that handles displays.
Somewhat good news...? I took some pictures. I'll post them tomorrow afternoon to show you the present problems we're facing.
I was planning on switching to Windows for 1920x1200 too Apple hates me.
And at that, a bad update...
I'm presently typing on my disassembled MBP, still haven't put it back together. Sadly, I'm typing w/ my 1440x900 display still.
The Display Override thing indeed did not work and may have actually HINDERED our progress. DO NOT TRY IT! I'm not sure how it happened, but my 1920x1200 display no longer functions properly in Windows now. The screen is now vertically interlaced with white lines (for whatever reason).
I have reset the PRAM, deleted the Override profile, let the computer sit with the battery out... everything I could think of. Still, the problem remains with the display in Windows now. The problem does not seem to affect the (ridiculously messed up) Mac OS X. My guess? Somehow something was written to the BIOS layer that handles displays.
Somewhat good news...? I took some pictures. I'll post them tomorrow afternoon to show you the present problems we're facing.
I was planning on switching to Windows for 1920x1200 too
Apple hates me.vv-tim said:Big update
And at that, a bad update...
I'm presently typing on my disassembled MBP, still haven't put it back together. Sadly, I'm typing w/ my 1440x900 display still.Somewhat good news...? I took some pictures. I'll post them tomorrow afternoon to show you the present problems we're facing.
I was planning on switching to Windows for 1920x1200 too
Tim, while you have had significant issues because of the model of your display, do you think that it is safe to assume that if we use the same display as the OP that we will have less issues (since he didn't have any as far as I can tell)? I am really ready to take the plunge on this soon rather then buying a 20" external to go with my MBP.
venom600 said:
No the panel I have shouldn't work any better or worse than some of the other panels people have tested. I'm pretty sure at least one person has tried the Sharp panel with their MBP with no difference. You are welcome to try it, but, we still don't have this working. I think we need more info at this stage - I have been racking my brain ever since vv-tim's last post, I've got nothing! I find it really odd that it now doesn't work even under windows after resetting everything back to normal - This is concerning. When I have some time I will try and do some reseach into the EFI system on the intel macs. If anyone has any good refernce sites that may be useful it would be much appreciated.
Did anyone try one step down?
I saw someone write about trying to get OSX86 to run at 1920x1200 without success and that 1600x1200 was the highest they could achieve. As a step in the trouble shoting process has anyone tried to run their system at this resolution?
In particular, those of you that get a grey screen or mixed up colors. What if you set your conf files to Graphics Mode = 1600x1200@60 to see if at least that works.
While we would all love to have 1920x1200 bliss...I might be willing to be a MBP 15.4 if I could run it at the next step down from that.
Can anyone with the right hardware give this a try?
I saw someone write about trying to get OSX86 to run at 1920x1200 without success and that 1600x1200 was the highest they could achieve. As a step in the trouble shoting process has anyone tried to run their system at this resolution?
In particular, those of you that get a grey screen or mixed up colors. What if you set your conf files to Graphics Mode = 1600x1200@60 to see if at least that works.
While we would all love to have 1920x1200 bliss...I might be willing to be a MBP 15.4 if I could run it at the next step down from that.
Can anyone with the right hardware give this a try?
It might work, the main problem with OSX86 is that graphics support is spotty depending on the card. It sounds like vv-tim had tried it on a regular PC. Results with the MBP might be better, or worse.
Although I guess it is simply a hacked version of regular Mac OSX, which of course should support all Mac hardware. BUT...if regular Mac OSX isn't supporting this new display for whatever reason, I'm not sure that OSX86 would either. I guess the only way to know is to simply try-
You can go here to try to get info on how OSX86 might drive the MBP graphics card-
http://www.osx86project.org/
The forums in particular are useful, though I doubt anyone there has actually tried installing OSX86 on a Mac!
Although I guess it is simply a hacked version of regular Mac OSX, which of course should support all Mac hardware. BUT...if regular Mac OSX isn't supporting this new display for whatever reason, I'm not sure that OSX86 would either. I guess the only way to know is to simply try-
You can go here to try to get info on how OSX86 might drive the MBP graphics card-
http://www.osx86project.org/
The forums in particular are useful, though I doubt anyone there has actually tried installing OSX86 on a Mac!
psylance said:
psylance said:
psylance:
I tried a WSXGA (1680x1050) screen in my 15.4 MBP and ran into the same problems. (although it did work 'better' than the WUXGA) This, incidentally, is the same resolution as the 17" MBP. I didn't try setting the Graphics Mode in com.apple.Boot.plist as I did with the WUXGA, though.
Just to confirm, I have previously tried 1600x1200 on this display with no success.
OS X is horribly intolerant of things not being the way they should be. For example, leaving the resolution at 1920x1200 and booting using the normal panel results in a white/gray screen that you can't do ANYTHING with. It's ridiculous... it should just revert back to the proper resolution like Windows would :/ I had to swap the 1920x1200 display in so that I could *sort of* see what I was doing and reset back to 1440x900.
I'm still working on those pictures... my cheap memory card adapter isn't cooperating at the moment.
OS X is horribly intolerant of things not being the way they should be. For example, leaving the resolution at 1920x1200 and booting using the normal panel results in a white/gray screen that you can't do ANYTHING with. It's ridiculous... it should just revert back to the proper resolution like Windows would :/ I had to swap the 1920x1200 display in so that I could *sort of* see what I was doing and reset back to 1440x900.
I'm still working on those pictures... my cheap memory card adapter isn't cooperating at the moment.
Haha, there is just something fundamentally wrong with using OSX86 on an Apple product!
Sorry to hear what happened Tim, you deserve much respect for not giving up!
This has to be something related to that BIOS/EFI and how it interacts with the panel and the ATI card. I would be curious to see someone try a different panel on a MacBook, even if it didnt physically fit, to see if it ran.
If you have a MBP, you get the proper sized housing but no working panels; if you have a PB 15" you get the wrong sized housing, but the panels work. ARg.
Sorry to hear what happened Tim, you deserve much respect for not giving up!
This has to be something related to that BIOS/EFI and how it interacts with the panel and the ATI card. I would be curious to see someone try a different panel on a MacBook, even if it didnt physically fit, to see if it ran.
If you have a MBP, you get the proper sized housing but no working panels; if you have a PB 15" you get the wrong sized housing, but the panels work. ARg.
It's a conspiracy! Apple intentionally won't let you make your own high-def mod so you'll buy the new editions of MBPs with better resolution!
It makes perfect sense...
Although it's a big pain that Mac is so intolerant of changes it actually makes perfect sense. Remember, no technology just "works" out of the box. Anything that works does so because it has gone through extensive testing. Apple doesn't need to do extensive testing of anything outside of it's expected configuration and it doesn't need a fall back solution.
Windows XP has no clue what kind of a screen it is going to encounter so it has to address as many display options as possible or be labeled as "full of bugs." Apple, on the other hand knows exactly what it is going to see because it has complete control over the hardware (with rare exceptions such as plug in cards, cameras, etc).
It is actually a pretty good method on Apples's part to discourage people like us from tinkering with the hardware.
What a pain though. I really hope we can beat it.
Although it's a big pain that Mac is so intolerant of changes it actually makes perfect sense. Remember, no technology just "works" out of the box. Anything that works does so because it has gone through extensive testing. Apple doesn't need to do extensive testing of anything outside of it's expected configuration and it doesn't need a fall back solution.
Windows XP has no clue what kind of a screen it is going to encounter so it has to address as many display options as possible or be labeled as "full of bugs." Apple, on the other hand knows exactly what it is going to see because it has complete control over the hardware (with rare exceptions such as plug in cards, cameras, etc).
It is actually a pretty good method on Apples's part to discourage people like us from tinkering with the hardware.
What a pain though. I really hope we can beat it.
vv-tim said:Yes, and that's really something we have to keep in mind before bashing Windows and exclaiming Mac OS X's "it just works"... because if Apple didn't lock Mac OS X to their very limited range of hardware... "it just wouldn't"
AMEN! That is truly the miracle and downfall of Windows...
This is really an exciting thread, I have been following it for a couple of weeks. If the panel swap becomes truly sucessful, I would perhaps have to re-examine my decision to pick a MacBook over the MacBook Pro... I wonder if Leopards "resolution independent" UI means anything for your success... Not sure if any of you testers would be willing to give 10.5 a try, but maybe it will work... Just a thought
I really look forward to me eventual transition to Macs... I really am a HUGE fan of their laptops. I probably will never/am not likely to ever purchase a desktop from Apple... too expensive for my blood. I have been building PCs for almost 10 years and couldnt imagine giving that up. Im all about building a good performing compy for relativly little money. While I will not deny that the MacPro is a reasonably good value, thats a loooooooot of money for a computer. Period.
Here's to you guys!
Well... yet another problem with this stupid Mac.
I'm getting the random shutdowns now that have been talked about. I'm going to have to drive an hour and a half to the Apple store in Atlanta tomorrow morning (since I'm at college in the middle of nowhere, GA).
I'm going to have to test my aggressiveness tomorrow and demand a replacement MBP. I can't afford to be without a computer w/ school and work.
Problems with my MBP so far:
- Heat (fixed myself)
- Logic board whine
- My "Esc" key is bent down to the left, Eject key is bent down to the right, and my "End >" key is bent down to the left.
- The casing is coming apart.
- The hand rests are deteriorating! (small black marks are appearing, someone posted screen shots before)
- RANDOM SHUTDOWNS?!?!
... So yeah, hopefully they'll out and out replace it. I bought this one in Bethesda, MD... but I obviously can't drive 12 hours back home to get it replaced there.
I'm getting the random shutdowns now that have been talked about. I'm going to have to drive an hour and a half to the Apple store in Atlanta tomorrow morning (since I'm at college in the middle of nowhere, GA).
I'm going to have to test my aggressiveness tomorrow and demand a replacement MBP. I can't afford to be without a computer w/ school and work.
Problems with my MBP so far:
- Heat (fixed myself)
- Logic board whine
- My "Esc" key is bent down to the left, Eject key is bent down to the right, and my "End >" key is bent down to the left.
- The casing is coming apart.
- The hand rests are deteriorating! (small black marks are appearing, someone posted screen shots before)
- RANDOM SHUTDOWNS?!?!
... So yeah, hopefully they'll out and out replace it. I bought this one in Bethesda, MD... but I obviously can't drive 12 hours back home to get it replaced there.
So I've been following this thread for the past two days. I have a 2GHz MBP myself and am really interested in doing the screen swap eventually. I do have a suggestion. It's a wild shot in the dark though, so I might be totally off base.
The last time I looked at the partition map of the hard drive in Windows, there's a 200MB hidden "EFI System Partition" at the very beginning. I have no idea what's on it, or if EFI actually uses any info from it at present.
One thing you could try is to completely annihilate the data on the hard drive (making sure you backup first to eliminate the data on the EFI partition. Who knows, it might be worth a try?
Also, you could work with the person behind rEFIt. He seems very knowledgable about the inner workings of EFI in use by Apple and may be able to provide some insights. Also, even though I've read through all ten pages (thus far) I haven't seen any mention of somebody attempting to boot off the install CD, though. Here's another wild thought... Try booting from the CD and if it fouls up, remove the hard drive and try it again.
The last time I looked at the partition map of the hard drive in Windows, there's a 200MB hidden "EFI System Partition" at the very beginning. I have no idea what's on it, or if EFI actually uses any info from it at present.
One thing you could try is to completely annihilate the data on the hard drive (making sure you backup first
to eliminate the data on the EFI partition. Who knows, it might be worth a try?Also, you could work with the person behind rEFIt. He seems very knowledgable about the inner workings of EFI in use by Apple and may be able to provide some insights. Also, even though I've read through all ten pages (thus far) I haven't seen any mention of somebody attempting to boot off the install CD, though. Here's another wild thought... Try booting from the CD and if it fouls up, remove the hard drive and try it again.
Gangis said:So I've been following this thread for the past two days. I have a 2GHz MBP myself and am really interested in doing the screen swap eventually. I do have a suggestion. It's a wild shot in the dark though, so I might be totally off base.
The last time I looked at the partition map of the hard drive in Windows, there's a 200MB hidden "EFI System Partition" at the very beginning. I have no idea what's on it, or if EFI actually uses any info from it at present.
One thing you could try is to completely annihilate the data on the hard drive (making sure you backup first
Also, you could work with the person behind rEFIt. He seems very knowledgable about the inner workings of EFI in use by Apple and may be able to provide some insights. Also, even though I've read through all ten pages (thus far) I haven't seen any mention of somebody attempting to boot off the install CD, though. Here's another wild thought... Try booting from the CD and if it fouls up, remove the hard drive and try it again.
Booting from the install CD gives you problems with the refresh rate, sadly :/
vv-tim said:
What if you tried booting off the Leopard WWDC preview? My guess is that the copy of OSX that comes with the MBPs are extremely specific to the computer, whereas Leopard has to compensate for every compatible Apple system. Just a thought... It's certainly the only "general" OSX install CD out there that works for the Intel-based systems.