This is an awesome thread. I'm waiting for vv-tim to come back and report, and if it works, I'll be doing this myself.
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Anyone interested in a Hi-def (1920 x 1200) mod for PB/MBP?
- Thread starter baxterbrittle
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theheadguy said:Do you not see the iSight or something? ::checks your eyesight::
Do you not read threads or something? ::checks your brain::
Its a 15.4" WUXGA screen in a MacBook display housing connected to a G4 PowerBook because the G4 PowerBooks have a slightly smaller screen, 15.2" if I remember correctly and there aren't any WUXGA screens available in that size.
Besides which, you replied to a post on the first page, that was weeks ago!
If I had an MBP here I would try the screen from my Dell in it in a heartbeat. I always thought Apple were seriously lacking in not having 1920x1200 as an available option in the 15 and 17" 'books.
Have we confirmed that the Sharp works?
First of all, I want to say that this is an AMAZING thread. I've been using a Powerbook for 3 years and I recently switched to a Thinkpad because I just couldn't take the low resolution any more (that and the fact that I wanted to be able to run Linux natively).
If I could buy a MBP and a Sharpe 15.4 WUXGA screen and not have a Frankenbook...I would do it in a second.
I see there are problems with LG and other makes but what about Sharp?
Baxter...do you think that the Sharp is going to work in the MBP or no opinion since you don't have one to work with yet?
First of all, I want to say that this is an AMAZING thread. I've been using a Powerbook for 3 years and I recently switched to a Thinkpad because I just couldn't take the low resolution any more (that and the fact that I wanted to be able to run Linux natively).
If I could buy a MBP and a Sharpe 15.4 WUXGA screen and not have a Frankenbook...I would do it in a second.
I see there are problems with LG and other makes but what about Sharp?
Baxter...do you think that the Sharp is going to work in the MBP or no opinion since you don't have one to work with yet?
no
ok read the nine-letter word before 1GHz PowerPc G4
yes that is the processor, not the computer. also, at the top of the forum it says powerbook, not macbook
Chundles said:Yeah, but this is a MacBook Pro:
saying that it's a 1GHz PowerPC G4.
ok read the nine-letter word before 1GHz PowerPc G4
yes that is the processor, not the computer. also, at the top of the forum it says powerbook, not macbook
Very interesting read. Although I do not own an apple notebook I have had some experience in dealing with frankenstein LCD projects so hopefully I can add some good to this thread.
My observations have more or less been that regarless of the LCD type and the connector on it, most of them use one of a only a few standards. Confirm the standard being used by the LCD controller which is most likely integrated into the logic board and you can find just about any display from there. It might be a whole lot of soldering to get the correct plug on it but if you are willing to do it, odds are it would save someone a bit of money trying to find a direct replacment... Especially if the prices of said panels become inflated from everybody doing this.
Inverters are all pretty much the same, I've used a bunch all with different tubes of varying diameters and lengths and have had no issues with it.
To the fellow who has the backlight issues, do not replace the entire screen. It may be possible just to order a $12 tube and replace it yourself. During a carPC project I broke one of the two tubes in my display. I measured it and found a suitable replacment from mouser.com and it was less than $7.
Timings can get real fun, although I think I got lucky working at the lower resolutions. Windows XP doesn't support 640x480 out of the box so most of the testing I did with my mac. (only other wintel box is a dell laptop that has some serious issues when it comes to displays). I was going to suggest switchresx but it's been posted and has had little to no sucess from the looks of it. I'm not really an expert in this area but since all seems to be booting fine until a desktop state and then the colors go insane, it's most likely colorsync profiles that are the culprit of that. On my box, I can see when it switches from a generic profile to the calibrated profile. It happens quite quickly and does it right when it hits the desktop. Try and find somebody with one of the USB devices you put over the display and have it make a calibrated profile. It may correct the problem, and give you the added benefit of a color correct high rez screen.
My observations have more or less been that regarless of the LCD type and the connector on it, most of them use one of a only a few standards. Confirm the standard being used by the LCD controller which is most likely integrated into the logic board and you can find just about any display from there. It might be a whole lot of soldering to get the correct plug on it but if you are willing to do it, odds are it would save someone a bit of money trying to find a direct replacment... Especially if the prices of said panels become inflated from everybody doing this.
Inverters are all pretty much the same, I've used a bunch all with different tubes of varying diameters and lengths and have had no issues with it.
To the fellow who has the backlight issues, do not replace the entire screen. It may be possible just to order a $12 tube and replace it yourself. During a carPC project I broke one of the two tubes in my display. I measured it and found a suitable replacment from mouser.com and it was less than $7.
Timings can get real fun, although I think I got lucky working at the lower resolutions. Windows XP doesn't support 640x480 out of the box so most of the testing I did with my mac. (only other wintel box is a dell laptop that has some serious issues when it comes to displays). I was going to suggest switchresx but it's been posted and has had little to no sucess from the looks of it. I'm not really an expert in this area but since all seems to be booting fine until a desktop state and then the colors go insane, it's most likely colorsync profiles that are the culprit of that. On my box, I can see when it switches from a generic profile to the calibrated profile. It happens quite quickly and does it right when it hits the desktop. Try and find somebody with one of the USB devices you put over the display and have it make a calibrated profile. It may correct the problem, and give you the added benefit of a color correct high rez screen.
Hacked OS X
I don't think downloading a hacked OS X for generic x86 will help much, unless you download the 10.4.3 release (which may have additional drivers, but nothing more to your advantage) as after that the only differences were the patches applied to fool OS X into thinking it was on Apple hardware.
Now, as for setting the resolution, might I suggest booting into osx with the option "Graphics Mode"="1920x1200x32@60" (including the quotes). I don't know if this is possible on Apple hardware, because I have only used that in the darwin x86 bootloader compatible with BIOS. If that doesn't work, you could try editing the file com.apple.Boot.plist and adding the following:
<key>Graphics Mode</key>
<string>1920x1200x32@60</string>
As soon as I get enough money to get a 17" MBP and a high res lcd, I'd love to try this out. Hell, I'm really close to trying the same thing for the IBM that I'm on right now, because 1024x768 sucks. I dont think I can go much higher though, I only have a 16mb Radeon 7500
Edit: Also, the forums at insanelymac (where the OSx86 project forums moved) may be of some help: http://forum.insanelymac.com/
I don't think downloading a hacked OS X for generic x86 will help much, unless you download the 10.4.3 release (which may have additional drivers, but nothing more to your advantage) as after that the only differences were the patches applied to fool OS X into thinking it was on Apple hardware.
Now, as for setting the resolution, might I suggest booting into osx with the option "Graphics Mode"="1920x1200x32@60" (including the quotes). I don't know if this is possible on Apple hardware, because I have only used that in the darwin x86 bootloader compatible with BIOS. If that doesn't work, you could try editing the file com.apple.Boot.plist and adding the following:
<key>Graphics Mode</key>
<string>1920x1200x32@60</string>
As soon as I get enough money to get a 17" MBP and a high res lcd, I'd love to try this out. Hell, I'm really close to trying the same thing for the IBM that I'm on right now, because 1024x768 sucks. I dont think I can go much higher though, I only have a 16mb Radeon 7500
Edit: Also, the forums at insanelymac (where the OSx86 project forums moved) may be of some help: http://forum.insanelymac.com/
vendor ID
An idea for finding the vendor ID or other information relating to the monitor. In windows with the high res panel in, go to start > run and type devmgmt.msc then expand the monitor tab and double click on the lcd panel under monitor. Then click on the details tab. Maybe do this with the original panel first (ex. look up the orig panels vendor id in osx, then go to windows and try this, figure out where the vendor id is in windows, etc.)
An idea for finding the vendor ID or other information relating to the monitor. In windows with the high res panel in, go to start > run and type devmgmt.msc then expand the monitor tab and double click on the lcd panel under monitor. Then click on the details tab. Maybe do this with the original panel first (ex. look up the orig panels vendor id in osx, then go to windows and try this, figure out where the vendor id is in windows, etc.)
OK, but what about the physical issues
OK, so I'm not rushing out at this point to buy an LCD and a brand new MBP to try this. (I actually had a bid in on a Sharp LCD at eBay but it's way up to $300 and there are still a few hours to go.) But this is something I would really like to see working. I'm been frustrated with Apple for years due to their relatively low rez screens.
So, apart from the color problems that, hopefully, some bright person here will figure out what about the other physical issues? If you replace the LCD, now that the MBP is 15.4 does that mean it fits in perfectly without any problems in closing the lid? What about the wireless card and iSight?
OK, so I'm not rushing out at this point to buy an LCD and a brand new MBP to try this. (I actually had a bid in on a Sharp LCD at eBay but it's way up to $300 and there are still a few hours to go.) But this is something I would really like to see working. I'm been frustrated with Apple for years due to their relatively low rez screens.
So, apart from the color problems that, hopefully, some bright person here will figure out what about the other physical issues? If you replace the LCD, now that the MBP is 15.4 does that mean it fits in perfectly without any problems in closing the lid? What about the wireless card and iSight?
Read the thread and think this mod is awesome. Although, I doubt there's a way to do this with older powerbook models?
Gave it a shot
Ok, got so excited after reading this thread at the possibility of having WUXGA on my MBP that I stopped by a friend's business. (he refurbishes Dell Laptops, always has everything as far as laptop parts are concerned...) Thanks Baxterbrittle - would have never thought it possible.
15.4" MBP. Popped it open, disassembled everything. I've pulled the body apart before, but never removed the display - getting the display out was a whole other experience - first LCD I've ever seen GLUED to the bezel!
Now, after all that, stripping one of the hinge screws (who needs threads anyway - stupid torx!?) we tried just about every display he had. We started with a WUXGA: it lit up, showed a blotchy pattern, and just kind of sat there. Rats. So we tried the next step down. (WSXGA, I think - yeah - 1680x1050) Lit up, but just kind of sat there. Confused, I tried connecting the MacBook to external video. Sure enough, it was booting. Intrigued, I popped into the monitors control panel. Saw the display, guessed the correct resolution. So I put the WUXGA back in, shampoo, rinse, repeat. Saw the display, set the resolution, and rebooted ... and...
BINGO!
Apple logo, spinning status, the works. I was psyched. The possibility of having a lovely 1920x1200 display coursing through my veins. Jumping about, doing a dance. It was great. Until...
Damn. As soon as it got past the Apple logo and started booting the OS, it went blank. Rats. Double rats.
Booted into single user, and the damn thing works perfectly. Text fills the screen, everything displays in ultra high-resolution goodness. Once it gets to graphical mode in OSX however, it goes blank. The machine is still running, the display is still lit, but it just goes grey. The display is seen in the Monitors control panel, but nothing.
I've read through this entire thread, hoping that someone has solved this little riddle - it seems that once everything gets past EFI, OSX somehow doesn't know what to do with the display.
So, I ask everyone - any suggestions? Not afraid of cracking this open again and giving it another shot - I've been teased by the boot screen, and now my spinning Apple just looks huge. If we can figure this out together, my friend here has dozens of these displays - and I know he'll be better on the price then fighting on e-bay for 'em.
Would love suggestions - drop me a line - I'd love to be a beta for your ideas.
Edit: forgot to mention - yes, the displays just fit in. You would have to trim the tabs that Dell (or other makers) add to the display casing, but yes, the screws all match up, and the displays are pretty much identical. There are only three or so makers of these LCDs, so they are pretty standard. We tried with a Sharp and a Samsung - both worked up until graphical mode in OSX. Wireless card & isight remain the same. (BTW - never thought a camera could be so tiny - was afraid I'd break it - impressive!)
Ok, got so excited after reading this thread at the possibility of having WUXGA on my MBP that I stopped by a friend's business. (he refurbishes Dell Laptops, always has everything as far as laptop parts are concerned...) Thanks Baxterbrittle - would have never thought it possible.
15.4" MBP. Popped it open, disassembled everything. I've pulled the body apart before, but never removed the display - getting the display out was a whole other experience - first LCD I've ever seen GLUED to the bezel!
Now, after all that, stripping one of the hinge screws (who needs threads anyway - stupid torx!?) we tried just about every display he had. We started with a WUXGA: it lit up, showed a blotchy pattern, and just kind of sat there. Rats. So we tried the next step down. (WSXGA, I think - yeah - 1680x1050) Lit up, but just kind of sat there. Confused, I tried connecting the MacBook to external video. Sure enough, it was booting. Intrigued, I popped into the monitors control panel. Saw the display, guessed the correct resolution. So I put the WUXGA back in, shampoo, rinse, repeat. Saw the display, set the resolution, and rebooted ... and...
BINGO!
Apple logo, spinning status, the works. I was psyched. The possibility of having a lovely 1920x1200 display coursing through my veins. Jumping about, doing a dance. It was great. Until...
Damn. As soon as it got past the Apple logo and started booting the OS, it went blank. Rats. Double rats.
Booted into single user, and the damn thing works perfectly. Text fills the screen, everything displays in ultra high-resolution goodness. Once it gets to graphical mode in OSX however, it goes blank. The machine is still running, the display is still lit, but it just goes grey. The display is seen in the Monitors control panel, but nothing.
I've read through this entire thread, hoping that someone has solved this little riddle - it seems that once everything gets past EFI, OSX somehow doesn't know what to do with the display.
So, I ask everyone - any suggestions? Not afraid of cracking this open again and giving it another shot - I've been teased by the boot screen, and now my spinning Apple just looks huge.
If we can figure this out together, my friend here has dozens of these displays - and I know he'll be better on the price then fighting on e-bay for 'em.Would love suggestions - drop me a line - I'd love to be a beta for your ideas.
Edit: forgot to mention - yes, the displays just fit in. You would have to trim the tabs that Dell (or other makers) add to the display casing, but yes, the screws all match up, and the displays are pretty much identical. There are only three or so makers of these LCDs, so they are pretty standard. We tried with a Sharp and a Samsung - both worked up until graphical mode in OSX. Wireless card & isight remain the same. (BTW - never thought a camera could be so tiny - was afraid I'd break it - impressive!)
Welcome to the fold
Hey*twwheeler welcome aboard. It is nice to know that someone has access that so many different panels without having to spend a heap of money first. Just out of curiosity how much is your friend willing to sell these panels for? I need a good one as mine is pretty b-grade.*
Where you are up to is about the same point as everyone else I'm afraid. Did you try changing the color sync profiles by fooling the computer by changing the vendor ID's? This is about all we've got at the moment but nobody has been able to test it yet. I've done it and has restored my brightness control but mine doesn't have any issues with colour so I can't tell if it has made a difference in that dept. Anyways if you have time it would be great to see what happens if you could try that.
I'm really hanging out to see if we can get this working because I wan't a MBP real bad but if we can't get this working soon I might just settle on a MB.
Hey*twwheeler welcome aboard. It is nice to know that someone has access that so many different panels without having to spend a heap of money first. Just out of curiosity how much is your friend willing to sell these panels for? I need a good one as mine is pretty b-grade.*
Where you are up to is about the same point as everyone else I'm afraid. Did you try changing the color sync profiles by fooling the computer by changing the vendor ID's? This is about all we've got at the moment but nobody has been able to test it yet. I've done it and has restored my brightness control but mine doesn't have any issues with colour so I can't tell if it has made a difference in that dept. Anyways if you have time it would be great to see what happens if you could try that.
I'm really hanging out to see if we can get this working because I wan't a MBP real bad but if we can't get this working soon I might just settle on a MB.
Nice work twwheeler!
I posted the pics of my MBP Disassembed, it was a very different experience than taking apart the body! Snaps, delicate metal, delicate electronics, a little more stress
Glad to see you tried the 1680x1050, which I though may have a better chance of working, because the MBP 17" runs the same resolution.
We need a 17" volunteer to try the 1900x1200, and, if we had the same access twwheeler had, try the 1680x1050 15" in the 17 just to see if it works. More data we have, the closer we can get to realizing this!
I posted the pics of my MBP Disassembed, it was a very different experience than taking apart the body! Snaps, delicate metal, delicate electronics, a little more stress
Glad to see you tried the 1680x1050, which I though may have a better chance of working, because the MBP 17" runs the same resolution.
We need a 17" volunteer to try the 1900x1200, and, if we had the same access twwheeler had, try the 1680x1050 15" in the 17 just to see if it works. More data we have, the closer we can get to realizing this!
Hello everyone. I've been wading through the pages of this discussion/endeavor and I've decided to jump in because I'm intrigued. I currently own a 3rd-gen aluminum PBG4 and I certainly stand to benefit from the results of this research if a reproducible process is determined.
Here's a couple of thoughts I had:
- Do we know for sure that the video card actually supports the 1920 x 1200 resolution? Has anyone tried hooking it up to an external display that is running at that resolution?
- What about running a second display in tandem? If you can boot all the way into the operating system (even if the primary display isn't functioning), perhaps you can see what display mode the primary display is running at.
- If the system does not boot all the way in, is there a way to enable/view some sort of boot logging?
- I could be wrong, but my gut instincts tell me that Apple's EFI is not completely to blame. Although I know virtually nothing about it, from what I do know it's just the layer that sits in between the firmware and the boot loader. If someone was able to get single-user mode to display text, it seems like that layer isn't totally rejecting the new display. Especially since Windows can use the new display without a problem and that has to hook its calls through the EFI layer.
- It's probable that Mac OS X relies on the information provided in the manufacturer file to specify safe resolutions and refresh rates. If you simply point the new display at the old file, it's still going to read the same display rates which will now be wrong. Does anyone have better information on this?
If you've already tried any/all of this, just ignore me. I may have accidentally skimmed over parts of this discussion.
Here's a couple of thoughts I had:
- Do we know for sure that the video card actually supports the 1920 x 1200 resolution? Has anyone tried hooking it up to an external display that is running at that resolution?
- What about running a second display in tandem? If you can boot all the way into the operating system (even if the primary display isn't functioning), perhaps you can see what display mode the primary display is running at.
- If the system does not boot all the way in, is there a way to enable/view some sort of boot logging?
- I could be wrong, but my gut instincts tell me that Apple's EFI is not completely to blame. Although I know virtually nothing about it, from what I do know it's just the layer that sits in between the firmware and the boot loader. If someone was able to get single-user mode to display text, it seems like that layer isn't totally rejecting the new display. Especially since Windows can use the new display without a problem and that has to hook its calls through the EFI layer.
- It's probable that Mac OS X relies on the information provided in the manufacturer file to specify safe resolutions and refresh rates. If you simply point the new display at the old file, it's still going to read the same display rates which will now be wrong. Does anyone have better information on this?
If you've already tried any/all of this, just ignore me. I may have accidentally skimmed over parts of this discussion.
Hello again everyone - glad to see this thread keep going. I'm going to try to answer everything from today's questions and keep everything moving.
First - baxterbrittle; thanks for getting the ball rolling! Not sure what the panels are going for, but I will find out for you. Not wanting to spam the forums, but you can get in touch w/them at www.laptopu.net. Talk to David, tell 'em Todd sent you. They've always been good to me on pricing, and I let him know that if we could get this working there would definitely be some interest in the panels. I haven't tried the ColorSync profile - I'll have to give that a shot. It doesn't appear to be a color issue, as the whole display just goes grey once it gets to the OS. The strange thing is that after the spinner on boot, you see the blue of the desktop for about 1/2 a second - so it's close. It has to be something simple.
RichP: you aren't kidding. The glue around the inside of the bezel was the most stressful part - we just weren't sure if we were missing a screw or what. The only saving grace was that we had an identical panel just in case. As for trying the panels on a 17" - good thought. That might help narrow this down.
sentin3l: Lots of good ideas - your thought that single user is getting past EFI is very true. There has to be something in OSX that identifies the panel that is stopping the process. I think we're onto something with the vendor id thoughts. I'm going to try to identify how OSX 'sees' the existing panel to find if there's some way to hack or define recognition of the new panel. The fact that they do work in Windows is a telltale sign that there is something with the OS at play. Unfortunately, I don't have Bootcamp installed, so I can't test that - although if it makes things easier to figure out, then perhaps I'll have to install it. The only thing that confuses me is that I can see the panel & the suggested resolution of 1920x1200 in the Monitors Control Panel. I'm going to trawl the OSx86 forums for hints to see what I can find.
Oh yeah: one more note - the 1680x1050 panel we tried was one model revision higher than the built in display, curiously enough - so they should be pretty close. However, I'm shooting for full WUXGA !
First - baxterbrittle; thanks for getting the ball rolling! Not sure what the panels are going for, but I will find out for you. Not wanting to spam the forums, but you can get in touch w/them at www.laptopu.net. Talk to David, tell 'em Todd sent you. They've always been good to me on pricing, and I let him know that if we could get this working there would definitely be some interest in the panels. I haven't tried the ColorSync profile - I'll have to give that a shot. It doesn't appear to be a color issue, as the whole display just goes grey once it gets to the OS. The strange thing is that after the spinner on boot, you see the blue of the desktop for about 1/2 a second - so it's close. It has to be something simple.
RichP: you aren't kidding. The glue around the inside of the bezel was the most stressful part - we just weren't sure if we were missing a screw or what. The only saving grace was that we had an identical panel just in case.
As for trying the panels on a 17" - good thought. That might help narrow this down.sentin3l: Lots of good ideas - your thought that single user is getting past EFI is very true. There has to be something in OSX that identifies the panel that is stopping the process. I think we're onto something with the vendor id thoughts. I'm going to try to identify how OSX 'sees' the existing panel to find if there's some way to hack or define recognition of the new panel. The fact that they do work in Windows is a telltale sign that there is something with the OS at play. Unfortunately, I don't have Bootcamp installed, so I can't test that - although if it makes things easier to figure out, then perhaps I'll have to install it. The only thing that confuses me is that I can see the panel & the suggested resolution of 1920x1200 in the Monitors Control Panel. I'm going to trawl the OSx86 forums for hints to see what I can find.
Oh yeah: one more note - the 1680x1050 panel we tried was one model revision higher than the built in display, curiously enough - so they should be pretty close. However, I'm shooting for full WUXGA
!For those playing catch-up, there seem to be a lot of misunderstandings so far as to the status:
- The panel works fine in Windows -unless- you start Mac OS X first and allow it to do... whatever it does and push settings to PRAM.
- We can get the panel working with messed up colors / distortion by using DisplayConfiguratorX or whatever it's called and setting the display timings correctly. This gets you passed the gray screen / jumpiness problems.
- Mac OS X does SOMETHING that messes up the display and pushes that setting to the PRAM which is used by EFI/BIOS, thus when you try to reboot into Windows after having the color issue in Mac OS X, the color issue is present in Windows as well.
- The video card IS CAPABLE for 1920x1200.
- The panel works fine in Windows -unless- you start Mac OS X first and allow it to do... whatever it does and push settings to PRAM.
- We can get the panel working with messed up colors / distortion by using DisplayConfiguratorX or whatever it's called and setting the display timings correctly. This gets you passed the gray screen / jumpiness problems.
- Mac OS X does SOMETHING that messes up the display and pushes that setting to the PRAM which is used by EFI/BIOS, thus when you try to reboot into Windows after having the color issue in Mac OS X, the color issue is present in Windows as well.
- The video card IS CAPABLE for 1920x1200.
I just had a thought about what vv-tim said. If the problem exsists even when you go into windows with the colour then I don't think the colorsync profiles will help. Colorsync from memory doesn't kick in until most of os x is booted (the screen changes color around the same time as the desktop appearing) meaning it's not written to PRAM and as such wouldn't affect windows. Therefore I think we will have to loook more closely at what we are doing with displayconfigx. vv-tim can you post all your timing details that you set in dcx? Also still hoping for a photo of the panel playing up - LCD's behave in different ways depending on the video signal being fed as such a picture may give us more info into what the issue may be.
One thing worth trying is to set up a whole heap of resolutions/display timings in dcx and then hook up an external monitor. Set the external monitor as the main (you can switch mirroring on to help) and then just go through and try all the newly installed resolutions.
Also resetting PRAM should get colour working properly in windows.
One thing worth trying is to set up a whole heap of resolutions/display timings in dcx and then hook up an external monitor. Set the external monitor as the main (you can switch mirroring on to help) and then just go through and try all the newly installed resolutions.
Also resetting PRAM should get colour working properly in windows.
Just a random guess regarding the color issues but... TN panels often have a color resolution of only 16.2M, not 16.7M colors, maybe that's the problem (e.g. old panel was a TN, new panel is an MVA/PVA/IPS or vice-versa). I believe that the color "loss" of TN panels occurs in the panel's logic board, so maybe that's not the problem here. Sorry if that is total nonsense, I'm not really an expert