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Anyone wanting to let Apple know how we feel?
- Thread starter Necrotique
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I think it's safe to safe that most Macs don't ever see upgrades, so just pretend that they weren't upgradeable. Those same computers are floating all around the second hand market.
The rMBP will survive the next decade at least. I could be completely wrong here but it seems that the need for new computer tech is slowing down. Software just isn't demanding more computational power at such a fast rate anymore, and so lesser specs are becoming more suitable.
The rMBP will survive the next decade at least. I could be completely wrong here but it seems that the need for new computer tech is slowing down. Software just isn't demanding more computational power at such a fast rate anymore, and so lesser specs are becoming more suitable.
I don't think Apple is doing it on purpose at all.
In order to get the laptop that thin, sacrifices had to be made, the same way they are made on the Air.
It's the design that forgoes user upgrade-able Ram, it's the design that dictates the blade SSD, it's the design that dictates what and how Apple lets users upgrade their laptops.
Not that Apple has motives other than wanting to give the consumer the best product possible. Compare a new 2012 15 MBP non-retina and add a SSD and high res display, and compare that to the base RMBP. The Retina doesn't seem like a bad deal then now does it?
I ordered a base model. Cancelled when I changed my order from 8gb base model retina to 16GB. Went to order the 16GB high spec model and was told the wait time will two to three weeks.
I now think I will wait until Apple works out the bugs in the new RMBP. I currently have a late 2011 15 2.2 with 16GB ram and 256 SSD. The new Retina MBP is faster, but now not by much more than what I have now. Is it thinner yes, lighter yes, but for a extra $1000 for what I paid for this one? With the bugs? I think I will wait. For now. It isn't like the previous gen MBP is a thick laptop.
Or I might order the new one now, I keep on going back and fourth. Damn you Apple!
In order to get the laptop that thin, sacrifices had to be made, the same way they are made on the Air.
It's the design that forgoes user upgrade-able Ram, it's the design that dictates the blade SSD, it's the design that dictates what and how Apple lets users upgrade their laptops.
Not that Apple has motives other than wanting to give the consumer the best product possible. Compare a new 2012 15 MBP non-retina and add a SSD and high res display, and compare that to the base RMBP. The Retina doesn't seem like a bad deal then now does it?
I ordered a base model. Cancelled when I changed my order from 8gb base model retina to 16GB. Went to order the 16GB high spec model and was told the wait time will two to three weeks.
I now think I will wait until Apple works out the bugs in the new RMBP. I currently have a late 2011 15 2.2 with 16GB ram and 256 SSD. The new Retina MBP is faster, but now not by much more than what I have now. Is it thinner yes, lighter yes, but for a extra $1000 for what I paid for this one? With the bugs? I think I will wait. For now. It isn't like the previous gen MBP is a thick laptop.
Or I might order the new one now, I keep on going back and fourth. Damn you Apple!
....and it's that type of complacency that led to the consumer losing power.
@imusings + /dev/toaster - it's a real pity and I do wish they'd think more of the consumer, though I know they won't.
People will buy anything with an apple on it, paying premium prices for a slight spec bump. I think this is a bad turn for Apple. Not bad for their profits but ethically bad.
I wonder if I can stick a retina 15" screen on my 2011 MBP?
This isn't true of everyone, I actually just bought a perfectly fine 2011 refurb model. I wanted a mac machine and what better way to get a great deal! I am performing my own upgrades to it, and I love it!
Not all consumers need the latest, greatest un necessary technology. I am thoroughly enjoying my 2011 model
Meh, I bought an old G5 just to run OSX Tiger, which I can't do on my current Macs; while not the latest and greatest tech the G5 will meet my needs too.
Pretty good point. My biggest reason for more power/memory is to be able to load it down more; speed is not an issue with me.
Then people like you would be whining about why the battery life went from 7 hours to 3 hours. Putting a Retina display in the old design is "possible" in that it could be done, but it would not provide a good user experience.
The reality is, the only component that's become non-user upgradable is the RAM. Maybe the battery, though I think the number of people who actually replace their MBP battery is pretty small.
So all of your complaints are complete hyperbole.
If you want a slightly more upgradable MBP, then buy the regular one. If you want a retina display, then stop whining about RAM and buy a RMBP.
Either way, stop bitching, please.
Would the people complaining about the non-upgradable parts on the new rMBP be saying the same thing had they just called it a retina air? Really the only thing that isn't upgradable is the RAM; the SSD is replaceable. Sure there is a taxed price on these beauties, but that's far from new with apple products.
also, when has apple ever been known for being a major player among gaming hardware?
also, when has apple ever been known for being a major player among gaming hardware?
i feel the exact same way as you. i'm EXTREMELY disappointed in the choices Apple is making.
this isn't true of everyone, i actually just bought a perfectly fine 2011 refurb model. I wanted a mac machine and what better way to get a great deal! I am performing my own upgrades to it, and i love it!
Not all consumers need the latest, greatest un necessary technology. I am thoroughly enjoying my 2011 model
amen to that!!
Yup plus getting ~30-45% margin on it.
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SSD is not. It's soldered with the RAM
Cheers for the replies everyone. I'll try to respond to you all but thankyou for having a polite discussion with me.
I follow this logic. The current (2011) form factor is larger and could house a bigger GPU then the RMBP. All internals, while smaller as all technology is becoming, could fit a hell of a lot more than the new chassis.
Hell, I'll probably get a RMBP when they iron out the issues.
Seriously though, does anyone think you can place a 15" retina screen on the old '11 MBP? If you can, I'm pretty game.
I agree with you. Got mine for $700 for base model, from a friendly guy I trade bits and pieces with, and spent about $800 all up for 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD II+ 120GB SSD III and self-installed a hi-res antiglare monitor (which increased my battery life - is that normal?)
So, it was $1500 for a top-end MBP, which I'm stoked about. To top it off, it ain't even fat. Makes my old Win7 blu-ray laptop from earlier this year look like an obese heifer.
They did in a round-about way when they showed Diablo 3 on Retina at the WWDC. It's a bit deceptive to use it as a flagship program/selling point when it runs at 20fps in non-combat situations.
For the record, I might not complain if it was called the 15" air, but I hated airs anyway due to their 4GB RAM in the last one I used
Mind you, I'd be fine with the reiterations of the "old" MBP if the spec boost was more impressive. But since it wasn't, I'm a bit put out with the new MBP selections.
I know not everyone would agree, but that's what makes this a forum. I respect all opinions, but will debate them if I disagree. Sorry if I come off as an ass.
Cheers all
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My last MBP had its battery run down twice, and was given away on its third battery to a relative. Gave me 4 good years and will continue to provide more.
If less people were adopting the "throw-away" mentality and seeing the value of a dollar then they'd reap the benefits too.
stop making unfounded assumptions, please :rolleyes
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"They may say I'm a dreamer..."
Cheers for agreeing mate. It's nice to see different views on this forum
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"They may say I'm a dreamer..."
Cheers for agreeing mate. It's nice to see different views on this forum
I don't think Apple is doing it on purpose at all.
I now think I will wait until Apple works out the bugs in the new RMBP. I currently have a late 2011 15 2.2 with 16GB ram and 256 SSD. The new Retina MBP is faster, but now not by much more than what I have now. Is it thinner yes, lighter yes, but for a extra $1000 for what I paid for this one? With the bugs? I think I will wait. For now. It isn't like the previous gen MBP is a thick laptop.
Or I might order the new one now, I keep on going back and fourth. Damn you Apple!
I follow this logic. The current (2011) form factor is larger and could house a bigger GPU then the RMBP. All internals, while smaller as all technology is becoming, could fit a hell of a lot more than the new chassis.
Hell, I'll probably get a RMBP when they iron out the issues.
Seriously though, does anyone think you can place a 15" retina screen on the old '11 MBP? If you can, I'm pretty game.
This isn't true of everyone, I actually just bought a perfectly fine 2011 refurb model. I wanted a mac machine and what better way to get a great deal! I am performing my own upgrades to it, and I love it!
Not all consumers need the latest, greatest un necessary technology. I am thoroughly enjoying my 2011 model
I agree with you. Got mine for $700 for base model, from a friendly guy I trade bits and pieces with, and spent about $800 all up for 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD II+ 120GB SSD III and self-installed a hi-res antiglare monitor (which increased my battery life - is that normal?)
So, it was $1500 for a top-end MBP, which I'm stoked about. To top it off, it ain't even fat. Makes my old Win7 blu-ray laptop from earlier this year look like an obese heifer.
They did in a round-about way when they showed Diablo 3 on Retina at the WWDC. It's a bit deceptive to use it as a flagship program/selling point when it runs at 20fps in non-combat situations.
For the record, I might not complain if it was called the 15" air, but I hated airs anyway due to their 4GB RAM in the last one I used
Mind you, I'd be fine with the reiterations of the "old" MBP if the spec boost was more impressive. But since it wasn't, I'm a bit put out with the new MBP selections.
I know not everyone would agree, but that's what makes this a forum. I respect all opinions, but will debate them if I disagree. Sorry if I come off as an ass.
Cheers all
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The reality is, the only component that's become non-user upgradable is the RAM. Maybe the battery, though I think the number of people who actually replace their MBP battery is pretty small.
So all of your complaints are complete hyperbole.
stop bitching, please.
My last MBP had its battery run down twice, and was given away on its third battery to a relative. Gave me 4 good years and will continue to provide more.
If less people were adopting the "throw-away" mentality and seeing the value of a dollar then they'd reap the benefits too.
stop making unfounded assumptions, please :rolleyes
----------
"They may say I'm a dreamer..."
Cheers for agreeing mate. It's nice to see different views on this forum
----------
"They may say I'm a dreamer..."
Cheers for agreeing mate. It's nice to see different views on this forum
To be honest I don't really see the point in complaining. Old 15" MBP's batteries will eventually die, and even if they are replaceable you still have to find a replacement for them which will be near impossible as they aren't in production any more. Same goes for any brand laptop 2-3 years down the line.
The only reason people care about RAM upgrades is that they can save a few bucks by doing it themselves. The amount of RAM is most likely limited to 16GB by the motherboard anyways, so this hardly affects longevity (Unless you are planning on going from 8->16 when it is cheaper.)
SSD should be replaceable in a few months once OWC figures out the connector.
The one thing I don't like is that they glued in the battery. That feels a bit sloppy for a $2000 computer.
EDIT: Also, why would you need to buy a new machine after 2 years? You have ultra fast external storage available for when your 256GB SSD fills up (Or just get the OWC replacement if you need all that data all the time.) So the only thing that is changed is not having an available RAM upgrade, but with 8GB of RAM and 1GB VRAM you should be fine for anything for the next few years.
The only reason people care about RAM upgrades is that they can save a few bucks by doing it themselves. The amount of RAM is most likely limited to 16GB by the motherboard anyways, so this hardly affects longevity (Unless you are planning on going from 8->16 when it is cheaper.)
SSD should be replaceable in a few months once OWC figures out the connector.
The one thing I don't like is that they glued in the battery. That feels a bit sloppy for a $2000 computer.
EDIT: Also, why would you need to buy a new machine after 2 years? You have ultra fast external storage available for when your 256GB SSD fills up (Or just get the OWC replacement if you need all that data all the time.) So the only thing that is changed is not having an available RAM upgrade, but with 8GB of RAM and 1GB VRAM you should be fine for anything for the next few years.
Didn't know they'd glued the battery, but can't say I'm surprised.
I bought 2 spare batteries for my '11 MBP so I'm safe
I bought 2 spare batteries for my '11 MBP so I'm safe
Or... As it's been said in the past.
Many Mac users have provided feedback via official channels, only to fall on deaf ears.
My last MBP had its battery run down twice, and was given away on its third battery to a relative. Gave me 4 good years and will continue to provide more.
If less people were adopting the "throw-away" mentality and seeing the value of a dollar then they'd reap the benefits too.
stop making unfounded assumptions, please
And? Anecdotal evidence is a meaningless measure. I still maintain that the number of people actually replacing MBP batteries is a small fraction of their total owners.
In any event, the retina Pro's battery is replaceable. So this is a complete non-issue. Of course, that hasn't stopped you from making unfounded assumptions and whining about it.
what percent of the population actually upgrades their laptop in a significant way?
Most laptops ARE disposable already. This 6 year old laptop I'm on now is mostly the way I bought it now. I replaced the hard drive a couple months ago. Same memory as new.
The only thing I don't like about this is it should be costing apple less money per unit to make laptops that are non-upgradable. (gotta be cheaper to solder memory to the motherboard than to have dimms and connectors and such)
are the gouging us?
edit: I guess the glued-on battery ticks me off.
Most laptops ARE disposable already. This 6 year old laptop I'm on now is mostly the way I bought it now. I replaced the hard drive a couple months ago. Same memory as new.
The only thing I don't like about this is it should be costing apple less money per unit to make laptops that are non-upgradable. (gotta be cheaper to solder memory to the motherboard than to have dimms and connectors and such)
are the gouging us?
edit: I guess the glued-on battery ticks me off.
Look, it's great for you that you don't use your computer in that way, but the point is that some of us do. Not meaning to single you out, it's just that this is one example of something I see frequently here that frustrates me: an assumption that everyone uses their computers exactly the way the poster does, and that if they don't they should.
Guess what -- some people use their laptop for web surfing and watching TV, and can use the same specs for 6 years with no problem. Some people use their laptop for programming, and need tons of memory and great CPU performance. Some people use them for photography or video editing, and need increasing amounts of memory and drive space and great graphics processing power to handle ever-larger media files. A few use them for gaming, and always want to be able to run the latest-greatest games that assume you have a bleeding-edge system.
Me, I do web development. Today I can run Photoshop CS5 and a Win7 VM side-by-side (barely) on 6 GB of RAM -- I'm about to upgrade to 8GB, which would have cost me $600 from the factory 2 years ago but costs $100 (or less) online today.
A $500 difference in what it costs to upgrade the memory may be only 20% of the cost of the computer, but I saved for years to afford this computer, and that's two months' worth food and utilities for me. If it's not a lot of money to you, well, you're very very fortunate.
I'll probably still be good with 8GB in the new machine I'm planning to buy in about 12 months, but in 3 years I'll need Photoshop CS7 or CS8 (not because I need the new features but so I can open files sent to me by designers) and Windows 8 or 9. (And the amount of memory web browsers will consume by then is horrifying.) So my requirements will gradually grow to 16GB or even perhaps 24-32GB.
Similarly for an internal hard drive. If you want the retina display but will ever need anything more than 512GB (which is not a whole lot of storage these days) you need to a) purchase the high-end machine for an extra $600 plus b) upgrade the hard drive for $500. Whereas if it were upgradable on your own, you could save the $600 plus 18 months from now when SSD prices have halved again, buy a 1TB (instead of 768GB) SSD for less than the current price to upgrade to 768 (plus have the old 512GB left over to sell).
But, as they say, 640K is enough for anybody.
So I should just buy the base model and use it for the next 10 years. Or spend the extra $1000 and be grateful that Apple is so kind as to let me give them my hard-earned money in return for the very specific options they've decided to grace me with.
And if the very limited set of options they offer don't fit my budget and use case perfectly, well that means there's something wrong with me, right, and I shouldn't be trying to use my computer for something as bizarre and stupid and outside-the-mainstream as web development. Who am I to want a computer as anything other than a status symbol?
This is false. the 670 and 675 GTX (mobile versions) are powerhouses and blow the Mac Pro's stock GPU away (the 5870 is pretty sick though). Look at the benchmarks they provide in the link.
But saying you can't get a good gaming experience out of notebooks is just ignorant. D3 on ultra getting 75 fps, Skyrim on ultra getting 40-45 and Bf3 on high getting 50+. I certainly don't need ultra settings to enjoy games, but I'd like more than a Macbooks 20 fps with everything on low-medium.
Video cards aren't only important for gaming, but they can perform certain calculations faster than any processor available. A GPU is designed specifically for performing the complex mathematical and geometric calculations that are necessary for graphics rendering. Some of the fastest GPUs have more transistors than the average CPU.
Yeh and soon as you put on AA it goes down by 50%, I'm running 8xAA with 16xMSAA and a shed load of other image enhancing features on 1900x1200 display.
Those reviews don't show the settings which are turned on or off in each game. Nor does it show how often it chokes and goes down to 15fps.
Gaming performance does not constitute average FPS when you get parts of a level which are at 20fps and others at 100 fps.
The quality of gaming on notebooks is poor and average at best with a number of serious compromises which affect the enjoyment.
Lets not forget how BIG the notebooks have to be to accommodate GTX level mobile GPU's, They get noisy and they get seriously HOT.
So not only are you having to lower the quality down to around PS3 level you have to use external keyboards and mouse and put up with the noisy fans on laptops and 1080p resolutions on 15-17 inch screens.
Im an avid gamer and i own both desktops and MacBooks and gaming on a notebook is a mediocre experience at best.
i liken it to watching a Cam copy of a movie vs a blu ray, its the same film just not as good
Fair enough, though it still isn't a Retina display.
And I'm interested to know, which Dell model uses that method of cooling? I'm not in the market for a new laptop, which is why I haven't looked.
Half the posts here are missing the OP's point. The days of taking off the bottom MBP cover are numbered and the new RMBP15 is just a precursor to where Apple is taking us.
One day very soon, your only option to upgrade will be to either pay the inflated BTO prices when you buy or nullify the warranty by doing it yourself. (Assuming there's some decent SSD's made that will fit).
By sealing off the innards, in essence we're being force to use the cloud. On the surface that's not bad because one can share devices but I feel insulted because Apple knows my free 5GB won't last long and I'll have to pay for more space.
One day very soon, your only option to upgrade will be to either pay the inflated BTO prices when you buy or nullify the warranty by doing it yourself. (Assuming there's some decent SSD's made that will fit).
By sealing off the innards, in essence we're being force to use the cloud. On the surface that's not bad because one can share devices but I feel insulted because Apple knows my free 5GB won't last long and I'll have to pay for more space.