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bingeciren

macrumors 65816
Sep 6, 2011
1,069
1,009
why would anybody bother backing up MacOS if everything is on the cloud these days?
I'll give you one simple example: My Macbook died suddenly and unexpectedly but it was still under Apple Care Plus. So, the logic board was replaced and I had the machine back the way it came out of the box. Since the ssd was soldered to the logic board, all my data and installed programs plus my settings were gone.

Using my CCC backup, I restored my Macbook to where it was in less than an hour. Good luck doing that with your cloud backup.
 

MilaM

macrumors 6502a
Nov 7, 2017
694
1,479
While I do understand the frustration towards Apple over this bug, Apple did release developer betas before the public release. Did CCC test against the betas and report bugs then?

They did report it.

"Last Monday (May 18) I filed a bug report with Apple on this subject (FB7706647). I also opened an incident with Apple's Developer Technical Support. I got a sympathetic ear, and someone to advocate my case with Apple Engineering – which I greatly appreciate. However, it was for naught. The last 10.15.5 beta shipped last Wednesday (May 20) – without a fix. Then today, Apple shipped 10.15.5 with this nasty little bug, and here we are, creating whole, but slightly less functional backups."

 

fcortese

macrumors demi-god
Apr 3, 2010
2,219
5,167
Big Sky country
why would anybody bother backing up MacOS if everything is on the cloud these days?
I use backups from both the cloud but also external Hds. This is mainly for my large photography collection and for critical files. I use CCC, so this is yet another reason why I have not upgraded to Catalina.
 
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cmaier

Suspended
Jul 25, 2007
25,405
33,471
California
While I do understand the frustration towards Apple over this bug, Apple did release developer betas before the public release. Did CCC test against the betas and report bugs then?
Of course they did. What does that have to do with anything?

The bug doesn’t just affect CCC, either.

And we’re at version .5 and Apple still hasn’t fixed the bug introduced in Catalina where remote shares can’t be reconnected to via the finder unless you restart finder (or kill a certain background process and restart it). And it’s been reported thousands of times by a dozen vendors of NAS hardware, IT support staff, and tons of users.
 

AnakinMac

macrumors member
Sep 24, 2014
34
22
They did report it.

"Last Monday (May 18) I filed a bug report with Apple on this subject (FB7706647). I also opened an incident with Apple's Developer Technical Support. I got a sympathetic ear, and someone to advocate my case with Apple Engineering – which I greatly appreciate. However, it was for naught. The last 10.15.5 beta shipped last Wednesday (May 20) – without a fix. Then today, Apple shipped 10.15.5 with this nasty little bug, and here we are, creating whole, but slightly less functional backups."

It's always a question is this a bug bad enough to block the release cycle. Look like no for this one.
 

Mr. Dee

macrumors 603
Dec 4, 2003
5,990
12,828
Jamaica
The problem for Apple is, once they announce a new version at WWDC the feature set along with the bugs are froze. I think the only thing they fix is level 1 severe issues or what are known as showstoppers.

What Apple likely needs to do is introduce are sort of long term beta similar to the Windows Insider program. They could have a public and private build. Private builds contain features in development while the public build does not. Focus on fixing any bugs found in the public build so when a GA is reached you won’t have severe issues like this.
 

Madhatter32

macrumors 65816
Apr 17, 2020
1,452
2,910
so outside of people trying to steal Apple IP to load newer MacOS versions on older systems or create hack-instoshes it must be a very small community of people that's affected by this.
As John McEnroe would say, "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS." Many people rely on bootable clones for their everyday business. Please do not extrapolate your personal belief or experience as a widely accepted norms. It's bad critical thinking.
 

Ronlap

macrumors 6502
Sep 7, 2007
269
202
San Francisco Bay Area
so outside of people trying to steal Apple IP to load newer MacOS versions on older systems or create hack-instoshes it must be a very small community of people that's affected by this.

Um, no. It affects users who are trying to create bootable backups of their systems in case their primary drive is corrupted or fails. Some folks cannot wait around for Apple to repair their system for them.

10.15.5 also fixed a problem which the SoftRAID developers pointed out (copying large volumes of data to RAID volumes causes a Finder hang or kernel panic). And it took them nearly 6 months of work to prove to Apple it was their bug and not a SoftRAID bug.
 

RumorConsumer

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2016
1,608
1,085
Of course they did. What does that have to do with anything?

The bug doesn’t just affect CCC, either.

And we’re at version .5 and Apple still hasn’t fixed the bug introduced in Catalina where remote shares can’t be reconnected to via the finder unless you restart finder (or kill a certain background process and restart it). And it’s been reported thousands of times by a dozen vendors of NAS hardware, IT support staff, and tons of users.
Jesus Christ this bug I know well. They MUST see the same behavior using their own network shares, no??
 

jezbd1997

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2015
928
1,243
Melbourne - Australia
Aah..could we please just get a stable release at WWDC. No new features. Just fix what is there.

My 16” MBP has had wonderful sleep issues (every time I put it to sleep for more than 4 hours it’ll reboot randomly in that period.) Amazing machine otherwise...but sleep was one of the most solid features in every mac laptop i’ve owned since my first plastic Intel Macbook. And in 2020 somehow they’ve screwed that up.
I had very weird sleep issues on my 2015 MBA when I upgraded to Mojave, downgraded to Sierra within 3 weeks..
 

thejadedmonkey

macrumors G3
May 28, 2005
9,180
3,328
Pennsylvania
This is so accurate! Catalina is a truly terrible release, but I seriously cannot comprehend the praise Microsoft gets for Windows 10... In my experience as a software developer, macOS is still miles ahead of Windows.
Microsoft gives you 10,000 ways to do something, and 10,000 ways to hang yourself.

Apple gives you 10 ways to do something, and hangs yourself for you.
[automerge]1590678497[/automerge]
- And I wonder why Apple still sticks with HFS cs instead of APFS for Time Machine - there would be a much higher performance and storage size advantages, too....
No reason to fix what isn't broken. Especially when what you're touching is a backup solution that has to work 100% correctly, 100% of the time. It's a massive lift for what offers very little in the way of user facing features.
 

rumplestiltskin

macrumors 6502
Apr 12, 2006
284
103
...{snip}...- And I wonder why Apple still sticks with HFS cs instead of APFS for Time Machine - there would be a much higher performance and storage size advantages, too....
Why HFS+ instead of APFS for TimeMachine? Consider that APFS uses Copy-on-write so a file you use as a template for many other files only has its changed portions written to disk; therefore the files you've created with "Save as..." or "Duplicate" don't really exist except as tiny snippets containing only the changes and if you use a generational approach to your templates (as many people do), re-assembling those tiny snippets into a usable file becomes more of a tenuous thing due to bit rot or a hundred other possible occurrences. Using an HFS+ TimeMachine backup re-assembles all your files as those files are copied to the HFS+ backup so at least you have bona fide files that may be recovered should your original (on the APFS volume) bite the dust. BTW: Should that original file bite the dust on your APFS volume, all of your generational copies from that "template" are, likewise, ****-canned because their unchanged portions (unchanged from the original file) are no longer available.

Still want APFS everywhere? Be careful for what you wish because you just might get it.
 

KPOM

macrumors P6
Oct 23, 2010
18,026
7,868
This. There was a point where win10 sucked big time but it's actually stable and generally runs the apps faster because of software features (e.g. CUDA) that pull it ahead in various apps. You just gotta tweak some of the telemetry stuff but then again, whenever i do a macOS clean install, i also have a script of about 30 lines to tweak macOS to my liking.
Windows 10 has gotten better, but I still need to reboot more often than in macOS. And Windows 10’s migration feature is nowhere near as convenient as Migration Assistant.
 
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Moshe1010

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2010
874
99
I'll give you one simple example: My Macbook died suddenly and unexpectedly but it was still under Apple Care Plus. So, the logic board was replaced and I had the machine back the way it came out of the box. Since the ssd was soldered to the logic board, all my data and installed programs plus my settings were gone.

Using my CCC backup, I restored my Macbook to where it was in less than an hour. Good luck doing that with your cloud backup.
I did it with my cloud backup many times. I just backed it up to the cloud, all my apps, and settings. Who needs that useless Time machine that takes ages to backup useless files and configurations? And please remind me how many times your laptop is getting a logic board failure in a decade? so you want to keep using useless slow, old apps, that come with your OS just to backup your configurations so you can just load it up once in a decade? now calculate how many hours you lost waiting for that useless time machine backup vs. how much it would take you to install and set-up everything from scratch.
 
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superiska123

macrumors regular
Jun 5, 2014
124
156
Time for MacOS OSX get LTSB version without feature updates, just stability.

Honestly Apple ruined OSX since annual release adopted, Desktop don’t need to this way, I need my good stable OS for work. (and have fun)

Agreed! I miss releases like Snow Leopard, Mavericks and even High Sierra... I miss the rock solid, bug free experience of using macOS.
 
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ruslansv

macrumors member
Oct 2, 2019
37
47
And in other news; getting massive kernel panics on a brand new Mac Pro running 10.15.5 here. What are you even doing, Apple?!

Yes - happens every time with Radeon cards and Power nap enabled. I mean 100% of the time. I reported it and Apple wants me to get kernel crash dump for them (which requires 2 Macs and a lot of pain). For a bug that is reliably reproducible. Seems like they don't even bother to QA anything properly.
 

dspdoc

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2017
1,955
2,360
Yes - happens every time with Radeon cards and Power nap enabled. I mean 100% of the time. I reported it and Apple wants me to get kernel crash dump for them (which requires 2 Macs and a lot of pain). For a bug that is reliably reproducible. Seems like they don't even bother to QA anything properly.
I do not have napping turned on at all. It is disabled.
 
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