App Store Delivery Lets Apple Slash Lion Pricing

[wovel]

And you propose they run around logging into the App Store and download lion ? You're suggesting they break the terms of the license by installing 1 copy on multiple computers when that is not allowed for commercial use ? You're suggesting they forgo their NetInstall infrastructure in favor of the MAS, completely outside the corporate LAN ?

I think you shouldn't tell people that they have no place in IT if you don't even understand the problems faced with the current, only, installation method officially announced.

These companies will license their upgrade with Apple however they have done it in the past and distribute the upgrade through whatever mechanism they currently use. The licensing mechanisms used by these organizations were never publicly announced in the past. Do you think they went to Apple.com and ordered 250 copies of snow leopard?

http://www.apple.com/education/licensingprogram/
http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/browse/campaigns/sb_volume

They have not updated the pages yet but they will. Perhaps they are planning an enterprise Mac app store to go along with the enterprise iOS app store. Apples public announcements cover the consumer market because it is massive and harder to reach. In business and education one person can represent hundreds or thousands of users.

People really need to stop basing complaints on use cases that they obviously do not understand and obviously do not affect them.

The install file is an "App bundle" that resides in /Applications. That is the self-contained application bundle.

The app you're sold is not Lion the OS, it's Lion the installer. You simply run it as you would any other app.

There is a complete bootable dmg image in the location another poster just mentioned.

 

[KnightWRX]

They have not updated the pages yet but they will.

And until they do, we won't know for sure. So saying IT people are concerned about the direction Apple is taking don't belong in IT is quite disingenuous.

Hence my "officially announced" comment. You have a few Mac IT people in this thread who very much know what they are doing and are concerned. Just like you have consumers who are because the MAS method is not convenient for them.

 

[wovel]

And until they do, we won't know for sure. So saying IT people are concerned about the direction Apple is taking don't belong in IT is quite disingenuous.

Hence my "officially announced" comment. You have a few Mac IT people in this thread who very much know what they are doing and are concerned. Just like you have consumers who are because the MAS method is not convenient for them.

Only foolish IT people are concerned. If they were concerned, they would simply call their rep and ask. If they are professionals with real concerns, they should be contacting a rep and not posting on forums about how concerned they are. There are no posts in this thread from someone who did make the call and was told that they would have to use the Mac App store.

Note too foolish person about to make such a post. Don't forget to include the full name of the rep that told you that.

 

[JGowan]

They should make a boxed copy a luxury item that can be ordered over the phone or online that can be mailed to those that live in low speed areas.

I'm sure that for those that can at least GET to an Apple store, they can load on and authorize your copy of Lion so that you can take that download home and load it on the rest of your computers. 4GB is a lot for my little town.

... No the difference is a change in business strategy to get new OS updates into users' hands at a more affordable price. Why? Because Lion add to the system lockin attributes of the Mac ecosystem.

What a crappy/negative way to spin it, friend. How about they want more of their existing users/fans to enjoy their services at a very affordable price to keep them a very happy and contented customer. They want them to never forget Apple is a quality company that does what it takes to be the best and to offer more in all situations, and can offer many goods and services that others simply can't match and never will. You call it "system lock-in" ... I call it "freaking great service".

They explicitly said it in their latest keynote. I remember this because they said something along the lines of, "...and since this will be a Mac app store download, it can be downloaded on up to 5 machines." Then the audience was cheering like crazy.

You're remembering it WRONG. I just rewatched and Phil said "and because it's of the Mac App Store and the Mac App Store rules, it follows the same rules... when you purchase it, you can use it on all your personal authorized Macs. You don't have to buy multiple copies. That's Lion."

If you own a lot of Macs, you can use it on all of them (not just 5), just like the other Mac software bought on the MAS. You're thinking about the 5-computer limit Apple places on stuff bought on iTunes (music/video). They did that to appease the content creators. Apple doesn't care about that. They just want all their customers on the same page and on the latest version of the OS.

 

[wovel]

Why would I have an admin account on my GF's Mac ? It's hers. If you to even start making changes and different scenarios up, you're probably not being 100% legit. I am 100% legit.

Again, I'll probably just cave if there's really no other option, but I'd rather have a more convenient option, which the DVD was.



Implicit. Obviously, "others" who don't share my scenario aren't peeved, so they aren't the others I'm talking about. Reading comprehension, elementary school level.

So burn a DVD then... Mac App Store is only distribution method, not only installation method. You should read TUAW more.

 

[coccodrillo]

Wrong calculation

Sorry, but your calculations are completely wrong.

The US Dollar lost more than 30% of its value compared to Swiss Francs in the past two years. Therefore the price compared to US Dollar stayed more or less the same for Snow Leopard and Lion.

Actually the price for Lion is quite high in Switzerland compared two the US. Taking in account the actual currency conversion Lion should cost around 25 Swiss Francs...

 

[Dr McKay]

Much better deal for the UK now, we normally get shafted with Apples pricing. Lion will be $34.50 by exchange.

 

[iIngo]

merci beaucoup

Ah, finally! Le tricolore waving over all of Europe! Vive la France!

 

[KnightWRX]

So burn a DVD then... Mac App Store is only distribution method, not only installation method. You should read TUAW more.

Burning a DVD is not legitimate to install on both. Didn't you read the whole sub-thread before interjecting ?

My GF's Mac and my Mac don't share any accounts, including the MAS accounts. It is not legit for me to install my copy of Lion onto her computer if I do buy it through the MAS.

 

[cmwade77]

Except -- the price actually dropped much more than this. These prices (at least the US price, presumably the others) are for the single user pack. Lion only comes in the family pack now (all app store downloads can go on 5 machines), so the price actually dropped in the US and everywhere from $49 (or whichever) to $30. That's a $19 price drop in the US -- 38%!

Exactly what I was going to say. In addition, right now Target has App & Bookstore iTunes gift cards on sale for 20% off. Which means that you could save another $6 if you went that route, making it only $24.

 

[Pablo90]

Actually in Switzerland the VAT changed from 7.6% to 8% on January 1st, so the discount it's even higher than it looks.
Chapeau, Apple.

 

[Fraaaa]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

It's ridiculous to conclude that the lower price is solely from online delivery. There's no way it cost Apple $100 tondistribute a DVD.

No the difference is a change in business strategy to get new OS updates into users' hands at a more affordable price. Why? Because Lion add to the system lockin attributes of the Mac ecosystem.

Beside that they are going to print way less copies because most of us are going to download, and the proof is in the many downloads already done in the Mac App Store. Second, some don't care and won't upgrade, some that run older operating sistem such as tiger won't upgrade, and all the new Macs are going to be with Lion in.

 

[gnasher729]

I presume though that the app store downloads an installer rather than a straight forward app, and that all future OS updates will go through Software Update, rather than the App Store.

Out of wonder, are app store apps signed? I presume (again) that if they were, the installer for Lion would be signed, but there'd be nothing related to the purchaser ID in the actual OS (i.e. for confirming legitimacy, or downloading updates, or whatnot).

If you download any Mac App Store application X onto a Macintosh Y, there will a receipt somewhere in the application that says "application X was downloaded onto Macintosh Y". Apple publishes code that allows a developer to check this. If the developer doesn't care, they don't check it, the receipt is still there. If the developer cares, then they check, and the app will immediately exit if it is a copy. There was a story that some developers messed up and only checked the "was downloaded onto Macintosh Y" part. So I could download an app, copy it to your computer (receipt is completely wrong), you downloaded another app for 99 cents, copied the receipt and it worked, even though the receipt you had was for the wrong app.

 

[el3ktro]

A French flag for the Eurozone? Come on ... vive la France, but hey there exists a European flag after all!

 

[Thunderhawks]

In your hurry to berrate me, did you miss this part of my post ?



Seriously ? I think everything you stated is something I realise tyvm. The fact remains : The more you limit options the more you hurt adoption. That's a fact, undeniable. With more options, you reach more people. I would gladly pay 49.99$ for a DVD. I'd gladly pay for 39.99$ for a .ISO or .DMG download outside the MAS as I have been installing my OSes over the Internet for the last 12 years or so (Apple isn't quite being innovative here).

I'm just very hesitant to use the Mac App Store for this. I know I don't want to have anything to do with it for applications.

My point is simple. Apple cannot anticipate everybody's personal situation, be that slow internet, no Apple store nearby or plain dislike of the app store way to get apps.

Apple has not just fallen off the tree NOT to realize this.

So, they put things out for the majority of users.
There will be solutions that we have not heard yet for users who cannot follow what the main stream does.

When a product is launched it is spread as fast as possible to as many people as possible.

After that you take care of the exceptions (I am confident there will be a solution)

There isn't enough detailed info out yet to get worried or upset!

As for people with slow internet, they need to go after their providers, not claiming their downloads don't work because Apples files are too big etc.

 

[KnightWRX]

Only foolish IT people are concerned. If they were concerned, they would simply call their rep and ask. If they are professionals with real concerns, they should be contacting a rep and not posting on forums about how concerned they are. There are no posts in this thread from someone who did make the call and was told that they would have to use the Mac App store.

Note too foolish person about to make such a post. Don't forget to include the full name of the rep that told you that.

Since when do Apple reps give information that wasn't officially released by corporate first ?

Remember, as far as entreprise IT goes, Apple operates under the same "No Roadmap, No pre-announcement" policies as they do in the consumer world. Only foolish IT people wouldn't be concerned when it comes to Apple.

 

[iMacDragon]

Much better deal for the UK now, we normally get shafted with Apples pricing. Lion will be $34.50 by exchange.

But not right.. by the normal app store pricing conversions, $30 should be £18 here, not £21. I wonder what's up with that, I hope they're not planning on adjusting the pricing structure.

 

[coccodrillo]

But not right.. by the normal app store pricing conversions, $30 should be £18 here, not £21. I wonder what's up with that, I hope they're not planning on adjusting the pricing structure.

Same here: with the correct currency conversion we would pay 5 Swiss Francs less.

 

[Kebabselector]

But not right.. by the normal app store pricing conversions, $30 should be £18 here, not £21. I wonder what's up with that, I hope they're not planning on adjusting the pricing structure.

Are you including VAT?

 

[iMacDragon]

Are you including VAT?

It's included in pricing, not added on top like in US. And EG pixelmator is on sale currently for $30 on MAS, which in uk translates to £18, same should apply to Lion.


The app store pricing conversion was set when pound was somewhere near $2, and thus is nicely favourable to UK currently.

 

[dempson]

A typical business with multiple computers each used by one person will need to pay $29.99 per computer to upgrade to Lion via the App Store, and will need a separate Apple ID for each employee or computer

That will NEVER - EVER happen. Not the paying part, the separate Apple ID for each employee or computer. Which is why I asked the question in the first place. How would one go about getting Lion for 100 machines - legit - if it's only a download from the Mac App Store??? I don't see any mention of it anywhere from Apple. I thought maybe someone would know.

That's why I pointed to volume licensing, which is the correct solution for businesses with at least ten employees or computers. What we don't know yet is how much it will cost, since Apple hasn't announced volume licensing prices for Lion. Ring Apple and ask. See the link in my previous message.

I haven't dealt with volume licensing but I expect it works on the basis of Apple supplying a single copy of the installer which may be branded in some way to identify the owning company, and you use your own internal distribution method to manage installing it on multiple computers. There would be a single point of contact with Apple, and possibly a single Apple ID involved (if it uses Apple IDs at all). The only change for Lion is likely to be the method by which the company IT department obtains the master install image (download instead of a DVD).

Remote Desktop can be used to install software on other computers from a management console, and Mac OS X Server has features like NetInstall to support installing from a networked image.

The App Store and multiple Apple IDs will probably be the cheapest option for companies which have fewer than ten computers or employees, but some in that category may prefer to go with volume licensing to simplify the management procedures, even if it costs more.

 

[gnasher729]

But not right.. by the normal app store pricing conversions, $30 should be £18 here, not £21. I wonder what's up with that, I hope they're not planning on adjusting the pricing structure.

You are "wondering what's up with that"? Just ask yourself what you have forgotten. I mean this is ridiculous, every time someone says "UK price should be much less" and every time someone tells them "you forgot to add...". Well, figure it out yourself.

 

[dempson]

Pretty sure no computer that shipped with Tiger can be upgraded to Lion anyway, so the point is moot. Lion requires a 64 bit processor (Core 2 Duo or later).

Most Mac models between late 2006 and late 2007 shipped with Tiger and can upgrade to Lion.

Here are a couple of lists of early Intel Mac models, sorted by release month. I've given the Model Identifier for each, and where necessary a brief description based on Apple's official name for that model.

The following Mac models originally shipped with Tiger (10.4) and have a 32-bit Intel processor, so they won't be able to upgrade to Lion, but can run Snow Leopard:

Jan 2006: iMac4,1 (Early 2006)
Feb 2006: MacMini1,1 (Early 2006)
Feb 2006: MacBookPro1,1 (15")
Apr 2006: MacBookPro1,2 (17")
May 2006: MacBook1,1
May 2006: MacBookPro1,1 (15" glossy)
Jul 2006: iMac4,2 (Mid 2006)
Sep 2006: MacMini1,1 (Late 2006)

The following Mac models originally shipped with Tiger (10.4) and have a 64-bit Intel processor, so they will might still be running Tiger but are supported by Lion:

Aug 2006: MacPro1,1
Sep 2006: iMac5,1 (Late 2006 17", 20")
Sep 2006: iMac6,1 (Late 2006 24")
Sep 2006: iMac5,2 (Late 2006 17" with combo drive)
Oct 2006: MacBookPro2,1 (17" Core 2 Duo)
Oct 2006: MacBookPro2,2 (15" Core 2 Duo)
Nov 2006: MacBook2,1 (Late 2006)
Nov 2006: Xserve1,1 (Late 2006)
Apr 2007: MacPro2,1 (8-core)
May 2007: MacBook2,1 (Mid 2007)
Jun 2007: MacBookPro3,1 (Mid 2007 15" and 17")
Aug 2007: MacMini2,1 (Mid 2007)
Aug 2007: iMac7,1 (Mid 2007 20" and 24")

There is a bigger list of models which originally shipped with Leopard (10.5), and might still be running Leopard. All of them are supported by Lion.

 

[iMacDragon]

You are "wondering what's up with that"? Just ask yourself what you have forgotten. I mean this is ridiculous, every time someone says "UK price should be much less" and every time someone tells them "you forgot to add...". Well, figure it out yourself.

No, I've not forgotten anything. as I noted, I'm referring how the app store pricing works, it's been very much in UK's favour for last couple of years. On app store/ mac app store $0.99 = £0.59, with slight variance as you go up the scale, and on that scale, $29.99 = £17.99. this is why £20.99 is not right.

Yes, by any other apple pricing other than app stores, I'd expect £25 as the comparitive price, but not on the app store, as things stand right now.

When the app store currency conversions were originally set, the price was set when £1=$2, so even including VAT £0.59 was equivalent to $0.99. this rate has not been changed on app stores since, so I'm wondering are they planning to suddenly change it to our detriment. Remember, the pricing can't be set per region without submitting separate apps for each region, it's set to a $price, and everything is based off of that.

 

[KnightWRX]

No, I've not forgotten anything. as I noted, I'm referring how the app store pricing works, it's been very much in UK's favour for last couple of years. On app store/ mac app store $0.99 = £0.59, with slight variance as you go up the scale, and on that scale, $29.99 = £17.99. this is why £20.99 is not right.

VAT UK people, VAT.

$29.99 does not include sales tax. Then your country seems to suffer from an additional "import fee".