App Store Developers Form a 'Union' Ahead of WWDC Calling for Free App Trials, Better Rates

[Inkling]

Free trials also must include an authorization for payment at the end of the trial, something developers would also like to see eliminated.

I'm behind everything but that charge without authorization. Agreeing to the charge would only take a few seconds. In fact doing that is likely to mean more sales not less. I'm not going to buy a pricey app for testing if I know I'll be charged without an option to refuse. Forgetting is too easy.

 

[bluecoast]

As many others have said, Apple are clearly moving to a subscription model for their services - and that includes App Store revenue too.

Why? So that every month they can bank predictable subscriptions revenue so that in the they can present this in their quarterly earnings to Wall Street as a sign of clear and predictable growth.

So I fear that the app Union guys are on a losing end.

I think that Apple would all like us (consumers) to see apps as ‘services’ that we pay for each month.

I don’t know if that’s a good or a bad thing, but that’s clearly where Apple at.

I think the bigger problem is more that we’ve all become accustomed to getting high quality software ‘for free’ (i.e. by giving up our privacy).

And Apple arguably encouraged this in the early days of the App Store to grow the platform as much as possible to help the iphone’s growth.

I’d love to see Apple find a way to persuade consumers that x dollars a month is a good price for these ‘services’ (i.e. apps).

Perhaps there will be an enhanced privacy guarantee that Apple will provide that will only be available to paid subscription apps, I don’t know.

I hope that they solve this issue though.

 

[Rogifan]

It's a monopoly within the iOS / OSX ecosystem. It's like getting a car that can be tanked only at a specific gas station.

Then get a different car. Again, no one is forced to use iOS.

 

[Piggie]

I guess it would be seen as unfair, and I'm not sure how it could be worked, but it would be nice to see the percentage cut from Apple vary on a sliding scale dependent on the dev or the money made.

eg: I may be one person, with one small app, I develop in my spare time after work.
I don't sell many, it's just a hobby and I sell just enough to buy the odd Subway and a Starbucks.

So, hell, only take 10% from me.

If I have a group of people full time, churning out constantly good apps, raking in perhaps tens of thousands each month in profit, then hell yeah 30%

I know that will smack Americans hard as it screams of punishing success, which is always viewed as a no-no concept.

I just feel hey, give the little guy some slack.
Perhaps keep as normal, but if your sales are tiny and you only make a few dollars a week if lucky, then why not reduce it for those people. Will be minimal impact on anyone anyway.

 

[albebaubles]

Let’s see if John Gruber discussed any of this when he has Schiller on his podcast during WWDC. He’s worked with Brent Simmons and I’m sure knows most of the others who signed this petition.

Dont you think he's told what questions to ask? He's a shill, and will walk the line. Remember his whining when he didnt receive an iPhoneX review unit?

 

[gnasher729]

30% does seem absurd. Does Amazon or eBay take a 30% cut from sales? Of course not. It's nowhere close to that because they're not actually creating any of the value.

Of course they do. In addition, Amazon has this beautiful feature where they can decide to lower your price at any time.

And lots of commercial sites have free apps that produce lots of revenue for them. Banks, estate agents, supermarkets, furniture stores, they all have free apps where Apple doesn't get a penny.

My current company makes good money with an iOS and Android app, and Apple doesn't get a penny because the app is free.

 

[truthertech]

The group lost all credibility when they let slip --

"Free trials also must include an authorization for payment at the end of the trial, something developers would also like to see eliminated. "

In other words, they want Apple to let them offer free trials mainly to take advantage of people forgetting to stop the automatic charges that will ensue. If they truly had confidence in the free trial model being needed to showcase how great their apps are, they wouldn't be advocating to eliminate the requirement for people to authorize the charge after the free trial.
[doublepost=1526744127][/doublepost]

30% does seem absurd. Does Amazon or eBay take a 30% cut from sales? Of course not. It's nowhere close to that because they're not actually creating any of the value.

"Not creating any of the value." Odd statement when Apple spends tens of billions of dollars to build and maintain the iOS , MacOS, TVOS, etc., platforms that make it possible for the developers to even have a business. They then spend billions to build and maintain the advertising, billing, and the App store, etc.. Finally, they bring a market of pre screened hundreds of millions of customers that you can sell your wares to.

It works the same way with brick and mortar, only they charge an even higher percentage. Typically 50% or more of the price you pay at Walmart, Target, etc., doesn't go to the seller, it goes to Walmart, etc., because they spent the billions of dollars to create that pool of customers and platform for you to buy from.

 

[Jefe's MacAir]

I'd like to see free trials too. I'd likely buy more apps w/ the addition of free trials. It would certainly encourage me to go the App store more often and try more apps.

30:70 split seems extremely fair. There would be 0% w/o the App Store. That 30% if far from full profit. Apple spends a lot of money advertising and maintaining the App Store space. You also get Apples stellar reputation when you sell on the App Store.

 

[jinnj]

Trials are long, long overdue and would benefit everyone.

Everyone but the person paying for the bandwidth.

 

[Janichsan]

30% does seem absurd. Does Amazon or eBay take a 30% cut from sales?

Fun fact: Amazon does take in fact 30% of the revenue on their own app store. (Forgot they had one, hm?)

As does Google.

As does Valve (usually).

As did Microsoft for the longest time, and they still do for games.

The 70/30 revenue split is pretty much industry standard. And another fun fact: Apple introduced it and they were lauded for taking that little. Before Apple, digital storefronts used to take much higher revenue shares than just 30%.

 

[jinnj]

30% does seem absurd. Does Amazon or eBay take a 30% cut from sales? Of course not. It's nowhere close to that because they're not actually creating any of the value.

Steam takes 30%. Xbox, Playstation and Nintendo take more by forcing more requirements to developers. Sure they now all have some sort of indie developer program but that just came around to fight the PC Indie market when Minecraft made them all crap their pants.

Retail markup is normally about 40%.

Yes but the developer never sees more than 30% of the retail price. This really was bad during the 90's when all of those software stores were around.

 

[tom5304]

A group of App Store developers calling themselves "The Developers Union" today published an open letter to Apple asking the company to commit to allowing free trials for apps and a "more reasonable revenue cut."

The group says that it is first aiming to get Apple to implement free trials for all apps in the iOS and Mac App Stores by July 2019, with plans after that to advocate for other changes.The initiative is led by Brent Simmons (MarsEdit, Vesper, and NetNewsWire creator), Jake Schumacher (App: The Human Story documentary maker), Loren Morris (product designer), and Roger Ogden (software designer).

The Developers Union is not a "trade union" in the traditional sense of the word, but it is aiming to bring developers and supporters together to advocate for App Store changes.

In an interview with WIRED, the team behind The Developers Union said the aim is to gain a thousand members this week and 20,000 by early June, when the Worldwide Developers Conference takes place.
Free trials for apps in the Mac and iOS App Stores have been something that developers have wanted implemented for years. Right now, apps that offer subscriptions are able to provide customers with free trials before requiring payment, but for apps that do not have a subscription offering, there is no way for a free trial to be offered.

This is a major downside for apps that are on the more expensive side that people might not want to purchase without trying first, and it has been a major issue for Mac App Store developers in particular.

The Developers Union is hoping to persuade Apple to expand free trials to all apps, not just those that offer a subscription-based service. Free trials also must include an authorization for payment at the end of the trial, something developers would also like to see eliminated.

Revenue sharing, another topic the group hopes to broach with Apple, could be trickier than convincing the company to implement a free trial feature. Apple currently receives a 30 percent cut of all revenue developers earn from the App Store, and the App Store makes up a huge portion of its services business.

Apple has, however, made some tweaks to its revenue split in recent years. For subscription apps where a customer maintains a subscription for more than a year, developers are entitled to an 85/15 split, with Apple taking a 15 percent cut rather than a 30 percent cut.

The Developers Union has not yet outlined specific changes it would like to see to Apple's revenue sharing scheme as the focus right now is on recruiting new members and pushing the free trial agenda.

At the current time, just over 60 apps and 50 people and are supporting The Developers Union, but more developers are likely to join as word spreads. Both developers and non-developers can sign up on the Developers Union website to support the initiative.

Article Link: App Store Developers Form a 'Union' Ahead of WWDC Calling for Free App Trials, Better Rates

http://www.starktruthradio.com/?feed=rss2

While developers are protecting their interests, and Apple is protecting its interests, who is looking out for the consumer?

I paid $10 upfront for an annual subscription to Overcast, the podcast player. After the latest update, Overcast has become unusable. It freezes and crashes within seconds after opening the app, every time. Others are reporting the same problem. Repeated emails to the developer have never been answered.

So while some developers are organizing to protect their interests, and Apple famously protects its own interests, I’m left out in the cold, having paid $10 for a service that doesn’t work.

Sorry, developers, but I think the solution to your problems is to write better apps. Word gets around. That’s life. Thanks for understanding.

 

[RedGala]

Spotify and Working Copy are supporting apps, but why don't they appear in the short preview list of supporting apps? The apps shown like iBrooklyn or whatever are not nearly as relevant or valuable to making the "Union" look strong.

 

[BoulderAdonis]

Retail markup is normally about 40%.

It’s amazing how many people are outraged by this, but actually have no clue how business works ....

I know. Maybe Apple can start monetizing / selling user data. Then everything can be “free”.

 

[Cosmosent]

Bullying by Apple, & specifically by Tim Cook & Phil Schiller, is at the top of my list.

App Devs should be able to speak their minds on whatever topics they choose, just like Cook feels free to rip on Facebook !

 

[vladi]

"Not creating any of the value." Odd statement when Apple spends tens of billions of dollars to build and maintain the iOS , MacOS, TVOS, etc., platforms that make it possible for the developers to even have a business. They then spend billions to build and maintain the advertising, billing, and the App store, etc.. Finally, they bring a market of pre screened hundreds of millions of customers that you can sell your wares to.

It works the same way with brick and mortar, only they charge an even higher percentage. Typically 50% or more of the price you pay at Walmart, Target, etc., doesn't go to the seller, it goes to Walmart, etc., because they spent the billions of dollars to create that pool of customers and platform for you to buy from.

Brother it's a two way street. Third party developers have equal share in iOS success as does Apple.

 

[cmaier]

Bullying by Apple, & specifically by Tim Cook & Phil Schiller, is at the top of my list.

App Devs should be able to speak their minds on whatever topics they choose, just like Cook feels free to rip on Facebook !

Who is stopping them?

 

[truthertech]

truthertech said: ↑
"Not creating any of the value." Odd statement when Apple spends tens of billions of dollars to build and maintain the iOS , MacOS, TVOS, etc., platforms that make it possible for the developers to even have a business. They then spend billions to build and maintain the advertising, billing, and the App store, etc.. Finally, they bring a market of pre screened hundreds of millions of customers that you can sell your wares to.

It works the same way with brick and mortar, only they charge an even higher percentage. Typically 50% or more of the price you pay at Walmart, Target, etc., doesn't go to the seller, it goes to Walmart, etc., because they spent the billions of dollars to create that pool of customers and platform for you to buy from.

Brother it's a two way street. Third party developers have equal share in iOS success as does Apple.

You didn't read the post. Of course the content providers for any store, on or off line, are essential. He claimed Apple didn't add anything of value. LOL.

 

[groovyd]

There, I fixed the quote.

Yes. There are developers making money. But many are doing it by collecting and selling their users' data.

Here is a pro tip for everyone. If you are getting something for free, do you think you are the customer or the product?

And since we are on this topic, app developers shouldn't feel ashamed about asking their paying customers for more money when they do a major upgrade.

And no, I'm not an app developer. I'm just someone who wants great apps without having my data sold to the Russians.

Thing is, they will still do that too. People are greedy no matter the profit on the price.

 

[Gasu E.]

Obviously none of these jokers were around when computer stores and other retailers would take up to a 60% cut, and if you wanted a trial first, you had to pay for the floppy disk which ran about $10 in todays dollars.

Get offa my lawn!
[doublepost=1526785346][/doublepost]

30% does seem absurd. Does Amazon or eBay take a 30% cut from sales? Of course not. It's nowhere close to that because they're not actually creating any of the value.

Yes, Amazon takes 30% for Kindle books, which are a close analogue to downloadable software. 30% is pretty standard across downloadable products. Does eBay sell downloadable software? Physical goods are entirely different, as there are huge costs associated with parts, manufacturing, logistics, inventory and shipping to the end-purchaser.

 

[ke-iron]

I think Apple cut of 30% is fair. Just by being on the AppStore they’re exposed to millions of iOS users and the number keeps growing. They want better rates, then Apple should charge them for every app the put on the store to sell and every update they upload as well. Apple have to maintain the infrastructure of the store, pay for ads etc. these developers are really pushing it. Apple could think of plenty other ways to charge them, but no. The developers agreed to pay 30% and it’s been working for years. If they want more money increase the price of the app and if it’s worth it then people would still buy it.

 

[travelsheep]

Invested 6 months in app dev. Won a major design price. People praised it. Paid the developer fees to Apple yearly. Never got sales. Took it offline a year ago.

 

[gwaizai]

Everyone wants money.

Especially Apple

 

[Gasu E.]

It's a monopoly within the iOS / OSX ecosystem. It's like getting a car that can be tanked only at a specific gas station.

Who would buy such a car? Any intelligent person would just buy a different make. Free choice!

 

[Piggie]

It’s amazing how many people are outraged by this, but actually have no clue how business works ....

I know. Maybe Apple can start monetizing / selling user data. Then everything can be “free”.

Really ?
40% huh....
So apple sells, let's say Best Buy an iPhone for $700 so that they can charge the customer $1000 and take a $300 profit thanks to Apple.