Apple’s MacBook Pro: Rotting Core? What Apple Doesn't Want You To Realize.

[Yvan256]

I don't want to be the buzzkill for that NAND Flash chip boot drive idea, but that MT29F8G08AAAWP is an 8 Gib chip, not 8 GiB. So that's only 1 GiB.

However, Apple already buys so many flash ICs for their iPhones, iPod touches and iPads, I'm sure they'd use the same ones to increase their buying power even more.

 

[Gomff]

It's a serious observation. All the whining and hand-wringing.... I'm not the one that needs a tissue. This place needs valium and kleenex all around.

lol

 

[diabolic]

So in other words, you're saying Apple users are stupid.

No, but most people aren't obsessive about the particular revision of hardware in their computers.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Computers aren't about performance to the general public anymore. They are 'good enough'. It's a dying thing. The fastest core whatever doesn't mean squat to the average computer user.

Apple realizes this, so they are moving into new and different ways to interact with computers, like the iPhone and iPad.

I added bold to your quote where I feel it is absolutely true. Unless Apple blows the professionals away with the updated Mac Pros and MacBook Pros, they really are focusing on the much larger non-pro market. I've suspected this for a while, but I think the updates to those two products will be more telling than any board meeting or Apple event.

People who need massive speed just may have to look elsewhere to maximize their dollar.

 

[thebeautyisfake]

No, but most people aren't obsessive about the particular revision of hardware in their computers.

This is absurd! I demand new laws to be placed where all computer users must know how their system works inside and out!

 

[babboxy]

A beginner photographer worries about his camera (and, in the 21st century, computer).

A good photographer worries about his lens.

A great photographer worries about the light.

I shoot polar bears.
I worry about scenery, I don't count processor cores.

 

[Gomff]

People who need massive speed just may have to look elsewhere to maximize their dollar.

This isn't a new thing....In fact it's always been this way. You have always been able to build or buy a faster PC than what a mac could give you for the same amount of money. When Apple bring out new models, that gap narrows somewhat but as time goes by it widens again. Just before a line refresh it is at it's most gaping, just like right now.

Pro level computing is about more than just the hardware. My 3 and a bit year old Macbook Pro can run all of Apple's Pro level software quite happily. For Apple to stop supporting Professionals in the video, music and photography industries they would have to stop updating Final Cut, Logic and Aperture respectively.

Honestly, what if Apple rushed out a Macbook Pro with an i5 processor in it that meant the battery lasted 1 hour you needed an asbestos mat between your lap and the machine in order to use it.....Then they get recalled because of heat and GPU / reliability issues? The complaints on these forums would be unbearable and Apple's rep & share price would plummet.

 

[alic01]

I think for general users of windows computer its about how much you can get for your money, even old men and women who know nothing about computers are easily lured into the bigger numbers = better world of PC's. Based on this they order the best they can afford.

Power users or professional users will tailor the specification to meet their particular needs and will be more interested in the fine details.

Another issue is the masses of hardware available for windows obviously increases update frequency but it also causes driver issues and performance issues where as the mac hardware and OS seem in my experience to work much better together reducing the importance of having cutting edge hardware.

Apple as we all know do not provide that many options so all we have to go on is perceived value for money of the various machines on offer.

I would expect that most mac users do not generally care about the specification of the machines, if i had not found this forum i wouldnt have cared either, would have bought a current MBP and been very happy.

At the moment however i share the articles standpoint that a year down the line the component costs have reduced and the product cost has not, its perceived value for money has therefore gone down which personally puts me off until the refresh.

For me it has to be a balance of function vs cost not an argument of mac vs pc. Due to there being no competition Apple seem to have a policy of static pricing which probably makes them a lot of money at the end of a products life but i would be surprised if the majority of purchasers even realise this, unfortunately the fact that we are on this site at all probably means we do not speak for the uneducated masses of purchasers who hopefully might just stumble across the article and hold off for a better value purchase.

 

[jamesryanbell]

Good tech support to me consists of two things:
1) How long I wait on hold.
2) How well someone speaks English.

The knowledge should be there as a prerequisite.

 

[Law213]

I shoot polar bears.
I worry about scenery, I don't count processor cores.

You shouldn't shoot polar bears, they are highly endangered.

 

[Macmel]

So in other words, you're saying Apple users are stupid. It's like being ripped off at a car dealership and going "most car customers don't know crap about cars"

True, but they try not to get ripped off so easily.

The avalanche of SUVs, Hummers and several other "all road" and big trucks for people that normally drive alone in the middle of the city, actually says that customers don't know crap about cars.

 

[Hls811]

Good tech support to me consists of two things:
1) How long I wait on hold.
2) How well someone speaks English.

The knowledge should be there as a prerequisite.

Key word... SHOULD.. But unfortunately, thats not always the case. Alot of times the knowledge is only as good as the scripts they are given.

 

[alic01]

Good tech support to me consists of two things:
1) How long I wait on hold.
2) How well someone speaks English.

The knowledge should be there as a prerequisite.

I agree entirely with this, i have never needed to contact apple tech support but i believe them to be very good, i have dealt with Dell whos UK call centre seems to be in india and it sometimes takes 5 minutes to give them the correct service tag

 

[Hls811]

Wikoogle: I'm a 50 something photographer (wishing he was on the verge of retirement ) ... and I teach a photography course at a commercial photography college. What I see is that 80%-plus of the students are toting Mac notebooks around, and 90%-plus wouldn't know the tech specs of their machines if their lives depended on it.

Yes, they know about cameras, though not always how to use them (but then that's why I have a job). Some of them can do things with Photoshop that would make your eyes drool. But for the most part they could care less about the specs of their systems, beyond the basics. Does it have adequate RAM, HD, and processing speed. Does it Youtube?

And, if you think students are not a valid sample group, I also hang out with a couple dozen pro shooters - a number of whom work and sell internationally - and for the most part, they also don't spend a lot of time worrying about the tech specs of their systems. This group knows more about cameras, lenses, sensors, and printers than you could imagine was possible. But, other than at the time of purchase, they don't really care about the tech specs of their systems. And at the time of purchase, its a case of buying the best system they can for the amount they have budgeted. As a fine art photographer, I actually know much less about camera specs than they do.... but since my hobby is computers, I know much more about systems than they do. And I don't know a lot.

Like most pros, they rate "Best" as 1) Being reliable, then 2) Making their workflow faster and efficient, and finally 3) Being able to continue using their software investment. No body I know cares about fast boot times. They want to know if they can transfer 15Gb of files from their external HD faster. They want to be able to apply a colour correction to 155 images in Lightroom, and not have to go for tea while it processes.

And yes, most these photographers are what you disparagingly called "close to retirement". One of them is in fact retired. Of course, before he retired he was in charge of transitioning the darkroom of a major city's two daily newspapers from film to digital. When he was done Pacific Press was the first publisher in North America to be fully digital. He doesn't care about tech specs on his computer..... but oh boy, does he know about cameras!

I really like this post and wanted to quote it in case anyone missed it.. Excellent job snberk103.

One other thing to consider, Apple has NEVER been about specs. Show me one "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercial that says anything about specifications. Its about reliability, stability, virus-free, less hassles and headaches, etc. They aren't ever going to get caught up in a p*ssing contest with PC manufacturers about who's computer is faster and they understand that their customers aren't going to either. Yes, C2D is 4 years old, but with the updates its still fully functional and works extremely well with the hardware and operating system that they develop.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

This isn't a new thing....In fact it's always been this way. You have always been able to build or buy a faster PC than what a mac could give you for the same amount of money. When Apple bring out new models, that gap narrows somewhat but as time goes by it widens again. Just before a line refresh it is at it's most gaping, just like right now.

True, true. But the article in the OP did have a good point. Apple can't hide when it falls behind now. The gap has never been wider than it is now, in multiple lines of computers.

Pro level computing is about more than just the hardware. My 3 and a bit year old Macbook Pro can run all of Apple's Pro level software quite happily. For Apple to stop supporting Professionals in the video, music and photography industries they would have to stop updating Final Cut, Logic and Aperture respectively.

My concern is that they did this already with Shake, and that FCP is still running in wonderful 32-bit while operating in a weird mode that doesn't function like every other Mac OS app. DVD Studio pro in particular feels like a linux app. I don't know what that is all about, but their pro apps don't feel like Mac apps to me.

Honestly, what if Apple rushed out a Macbook Pro with an i5 processor in it that meant the battery lasted 1 hour you needed an asbestos mat between your lap and the machine in order to use it.....Then they get recalled because of heat and GPU / reliability issues? The complaints on these forums would be unbearable and Apple's rep & share price would plummet.

Apple already had that issue with their core2 duo laptops! Not a recall, but a known defect in my pre-unibody MacBook Pro had GPU/reliability issues.

 

[Streethawk]

I think Macbook Pro is a misnomer. I think the name Macbook Lux would be more suitable, as i see it as a luxury product for the most part.

Some creative professionals, myself included, dont buy it for the luxury, but most do.

The best analogy i can think of is cars. A Macbook Pro would be a Rolls Royce, its not got the best performance, its components are good, but the competition have bigger/faster engines, more seats, more room, etc etc. However a lot of people call the Rolls Royce the BEST car in the world. It is more than the sum of its parts. That is how i see the Macbook Pro.

 

[agr5]

I really like this post and wanted to quote it in case anyone missed it.. Excellent job snberk103.

One other thing to consider, Apple has NEVER been about specs. Show me one "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercial that says anything about specifications. Its about reliability, stability, virus-free, less hassles and headaches, etc. They aren't ever going to get caught up in a p*ssing contest with PC manufacturers about who's computer is faster and they understand that their customers aren't going to either. Yes, C2D is 4 years old, but with the updates its still fully functional and works extremely well with the hardware and operating system that they develop.

I'm not saying that the C2D wouldn't be sufficient for my needs today... But that doesn't mean I don't want the top-of-the-line technology for the premium money I am paying. Also, I want to have my laptop for 3-5 years and with hardware that is already 2-4 years old, that doesn't make me feel like it is a good investment. The MBP's NEED an update very soon or Apple should drop the price...

 

[Hls811]

I'm not saying that the C2D wouldn't be sufficient for my needs today... But that doesn't mean I don't want the top-of-the-line technology for the premium money I am paying. Also, I want to have my laptop for 3-5 years and with hardware that is already 2-4 years old, that doesn't make me feel like it is a good investment. The MBP's NEED an update very soon or Apple should drop the price...

I agree.. and that was really the only thing I agreed with in the article was the pricing concerns.. I ended up buying a brand new one the other day but only because I got it for what I felt was a good deal - I would not have paid "full retail" for it. I essentially got it for ~30% off, and that made it worthwhile to me.

As far as the hardware being old, Its really not. Its still current technology. Everyone is comparing C2D to i5/i7 and how Dell and HP and Sony are shipping them already, but Dell and HP (don't know about Sony) are also still selling T4400 Processors which even pre-date what Apple has. The technology is 4 years old, but the evolution of it has been on going. In 5 years applications and operating systems will still support C2D technology just as much as they will support i5/7.

Apple will eventually drop the price, but not until they do release something new and the current models go into the clearance bin.. Lets say apple dropped their prices now the $400 or so that article mentions, how bad would they look if they raise it back $400 when they come out with the newer MBP's?? They are in a no-win when it comes to pricing. they don't have enough models and variation to mask pricing changes like HP and Dell does.

 

[Gomff]

True, true. But the article in the OP did have a good point. Apple can't hide when it falls behind now. The gap has never been wider than it is now, in multiple lines of computers.

Kind of. It seems to me that CPU technology is not as straight forward as it used to be. In days gone by you could judge a CPU's improvement by it's Mhz / Ghz rating but that's not the case anymore, which is why we have multiple cores and multi threading etc. Regardless, it seems to me that progress in terms of speed isn't what it used to be. In the 90's, 4 years seemed to produce a much larger percentage improvement in performance than it has done for the last 5 years or so.

My concern is that they did this already with Shake, and that FCP is still running in wonderful 32-bit while operating in a weird mode that doesn't function like every other Mac OS app. DVD Studio pro in particular feels like a linux app. I don't know what that is all about, but their pro apps don't feel like Mac apps to me.

Have to take your word on most of these apps as I don't use them, except for Shake which Apple bought if I remember correctly. I agree that it's nothing like Apple's other apps though for obvious reasons

Apple already had that issue with their core2 duo laptops! Not a recall, but a known defect in my pre-unibody MacBook Pro had GPU/reliability issues.

Exactly my point....And they're still clearing that mess up to this day.

 

[Eidorian]

(In regards to your post before edit)

What can you do with a liberal arts degree? It's pretty much the 'I can't figure out a major' degree isn't it?

My point exactly.

I do a fair bit of IT work and you'll almost always see me talking about hardware here on MacRumors. I know far too many Philosophy and History majors in IT or a related field.

It's insulting that Apple is suggesting that we're all artists. (Don't forget the Science and Engineering Mac users either.) The ultimate irony is that Apple's minimalism and utilitarian design is seen as artistic.

 

[IntelliUser]

I don't see any reason why I should spend any amount of money on a Windows PC.

 

[Gomff]

Oh, also...About screen resolution and Blue Ray.

I'm fine with the resolution that Apple screens are running at right now. I think perhaps they should offer a higher res for those with the eyes for it, but I don't want eye strain and find the current resolution just fine.

I honestly don't know if Blue Ray is going to happen for Macs. Apple have too much of a vested interest in selling movies their way through iTunes. Again, I'm not saying this is the best way and personally, I prefer to own hard copies of my media that I can watch on multiple players. I know the copyright police won't like me for this but heck, I might even buy a movie, watch it and then pass it on to my sister or a buddy to watch...So sue me.

But equally, if I want to watch a movie on my laptop (which is rare) then DVD quality is fine for me. I've watched HD footage on my Laptop and there is a bit of a difference but to be honest I don't care enough for it to be an issue. Blue Ray would be nice but it's not a deal breaker for me.

I also agree that Apple do price gouge quite a bit at times. But to say they survive on the ignorance of gullible consumers is largely untrue. They must be providing some excellent value somewhere in their business or they wouldn't continue to be as successful as they are. Remember, during the worst economic downturn in living memory, Apple have thrived....They must be doing something right.

 

[gfiz]

Remember, during the worst economic downturn in living memory, Apple have thrived....They must be doing something right.

I have to admit, this defies all conventional wisdom, and I am seriously perplexed/amazed on their revenue and margin growth in 2008 & 2009. Though most of it is a factor of the iPhone.

 

[Gomff]

I have to admit, this defies all conventional wisdom, and I am seriously perplexed/amazed on their revenue and margin growth in 2008 & 2009. Though most of it is a factor of the iPhone.

Mac sales are up also.

 

[snberk103]

I really like this post and wanted to quote it in case anyone missed it.. Excellent job snberk103.
...

It was too long, but that's what I get for writing it in the wee hours of the night. I think I had insomnia because I was worried that my year-old, no 2 year, no - wait, it might be close to 3 years old MBP (!!!) didn't have enough cores anymore to be real notebook, and to get the job done.