Apple’s MacBook Pro: Rotting Core? What Apple Doesn't Want You To Realize.

[TedJustAdmitit]

I added bold to your quote where I feel it is absolutely true. Unless Apple blows the professionals away with the updated Mac Pros and MacBook Pros, they really are focusing on the much larger non-pro market. I've suspected this for a while, but I think the updates to those two products will be more telling than any board meeting or Apple event.

People who need massive speed just may have to look elsewhere to maximize their dollar.

I'm adding to this, but what's up with Apple charging an insane amount of money for a Product if they are looking at a non-pro market? Ok looks like I will be making sure that I get my elderly parents to pay $2500 for a product that only costs $800 tops if they get it on a PC.

 

[vant]

Um yes they do

analogy fail

Yes. The average Camry owner definitely knows that they are rocking a 2.4L. Or, just maybe they heard of the name 'Camry' before and knew it was a reliable car.

At your next traffic light, I dare you to lower your window and ask the driver next to you how much his engine displaces, or how much rear shoulder room he has.

 

[gfiz]

Yes. The average Camry owner definitely knows that they are rocking a 2.4L. Or, just maybe they heard of the name 'Camry' before and knew it was a reliable car.

At your next traffic light, I dare you to lower your window and ask the driver next to you how much his engine displaces, or how much rear shoulder room he has.

I don't care how cheap a car is, no one shells out $1000's without knowing the basic specs of the car. Now someone driving a car that someone else bought (like my wife or kids) likely wouldn't have the foggiest (especially since my kids are 4 months old ), but no way you shell out 10, 20, 30K+ for a car and don't know at the very least "the liter number" (even if you don't know technically what that number means), and how many cylinders, in addition to the rough advertised MPG among other specs.

 

[HLdan]

I'm adding to this, but what's up with Apple charging an insane amount of money for a Product if they are looking at a non-pro market? Ok looks like I will be making sure that I get my elderly parents to pay $2500 for a product that only costs $800 tops if they get it on a PC.

Dude, relax, Apple can charge whatever the hell they want just like any company, it's up to the customer to make the purchase still, you haven't forgotten that right??

 

[Hal Itosis]

I'm a software engineer. Actually, I lead development at a small software company that has to build for Mac, Win, and Linux. With a MBP our developers can run them all on a single machine.

Good to know now... as that level of experience didn't quite shine through your initial "apologist" rant. [my advice: quote the person(s) to whom you're directing such communication next time.]

Performance matters to us, especially when we are running multiple OSes at once.

No one (myself included) likes bottlenecks or any sort of slowdown when using a computer... even if it's just loading an email client or whatever.

Nice try attempting to turn this into some ego trip desire.

Well, it's not as if i was actually "attempting" anything of the sort... just that your rant seemed to indicate that may indeed have already been the case.

I always thought the "Pro" in MacBook Pro meant "Professional". My bad. I'm glad my kind are entitled to opinions, though!

We all know the new MBP with a Core i5/7 plus some sorta GPU upgrade is on the way shortly. The current C2D MBP is at the very end of its life-cycle... and yes, some are still being sold at premium price points. So? Such income helps fuel Apple R&D. In a few weeks it'll be a different story.

Sorry, but your rant seemed to portray the perspective of an inexperienced Mac person (a recent Windows switcher even), and so i reacted accordingly. [it gets tiresome seeing the words fanboy and/or apologist tossed out so liberally, to (supposedly) elevate one's stance in the many arguments i read around here.]

Yes... the expected MBP update is quite late this time (or maybe it just feels that way). This particular "wait" seems to have everyone in a tizzy.

 

[vant]

I don't care how cheap a car is, no one shells out $1000's without knowing the basic specs of the car. Now someone driving a car that someone else bought (like my wife or kids) likely wouldn't have the foggiest (especially since my kids are 4 months old ), but no way you shell out 10, 20, 30K+ for a car and don't know at the very least "the liter number" (even if you don't know technically what that number means), and how many cylinders, in addition to the rough advertised MPG among other specs.

You'd be surprised. Some people just want a car for a specific purpose other than speed.

 

[gfiz]

You'd be surprised. Some people just want a car for a specific purpose other than speed.

I didn't say it would necessarily be a significant factor in their decision process, just that they'd be aware of it regardless.

 

[Madetech]

Hi, first post here.

I am a PC user and i am considering buying my first Mac. While i was googling MBP i stumbled across this thread, read it (80%) and decided to join the forum just to post this reply.

Why i want a mac is really simple: I want something i can turn on without having to do anything in the settings or killing a process that makes my video choppy.

People in this thread are complaining about "old" processors and high prices.
Frankly i dont understand. Dont forget that i dont know much about Macs but i think my logic is good. Install Linux on any old pc you have. The results for me is always the same, super fast machine. Linux is based of Unix and it is the foundation of Mac os. SO to me you dont need tons of power if its well managed.

 

[Freyqq]

this argument is getting way off-base

a computer is a tool to perform a task, not a fashion statement

The main issue here is that apple is charging the same prices that they charged exactly 269 days ago (according to the buyer's guide at macrumors) for an outdated product. Anyone who knows anything about computer specs will know that this is a terrible deal. Maybe an update is around the corner, maybe not. Regardless, sales must be dropping off and apple must be noticing it.

This wouldn't be an issue if apple dropped their prices as a computer goes through the hardware cycle, like every other manufacturer. But, buying a macbook or macbook pro today is a really bad deal financially. The best option is to either continue waiting, or buy a PC and be content with windows 7.

Since you guys seem like you enjoy car analogies, this would be like buying a new 2009 BMW when it's 2010 for the same price as it was sold when it just came out in 2009. Yeah, it may be a great car...but that's a terrible deal and no one would buy it.

 

[DoFoT9]

this argument is getting way off-base

a computer is a tool to perform a task, not a fashion statement

The main issue here is that apple is charging the same prices that they charged exactly 269 days ago (according to the buyer's guide at macrumors) for an outdated product. Anyone who knows anything about computer specs will know that this is a terrible deal. Maybe an update is around the corner, maybe not. Regardless, sales must be dropping off and apple must be noticing it.

This wouldn't be an issue if apple dropped their prices as a computer goes through the hardware cycle, like every other manufacturer. But, buying a macbook or macbook pro today is a really bad deal financially. The best option is to either continue waiting, or buy a PC and be content with windows 7.

*SNORT*

goodluck getting that to happen lol..

there is just something about the apple computers that makes you willing to pay the price

 

[rumpus]

Hi, first post here.

I am a PC user and i am considering buying my first Mac. While i was googling MBP i stumbled across this thread, read it (80%) and decided to join the forum just to post this reply.

Why i want a mac is really simple: I want something i can turn on without having to do anything in the settings or killing a process that makes my video choppy.

People in this thread are complaining about "old" processors and high prices.
Frankly i dont understand. Dont forget that i dont know much about Macs but i think my logic is good. Install Linux on any old pc you have. The results for me is always the same, super fast machine. Linux is based of Unix and it is the foundation of Mac os. SO to me you dont need tons of power if its well managed.

Actually its human psychology and its well justified in my opinion too. Old / new is a relative thing. The Core 2 Duo technology is very old now compared to the chip architectures that are a short way ahead of us.

There's nothing wrong with C2D, and if you're a light user you'll be much more than just pleased with a Mac. But the money your earn has a value, computer components generally become cheaper with time, so that's what people are complaining about - that at the present moment of time C2D should either be cheaper or Apple should upgrade their notebooks to better processors for charging this much for them.

 

[Gomff]

This wouldn't be an issue if apple dropped their prices as a computer goes through the hardware cycle, like every other manufacturer. But, buying a macbook or macbook pro today is a really bad deal financially. The best option is to either continue waiting, or buy a PC and be content with windows 7..

This logic is flawed.

How is it a bad deal financially? Compared to what? A PC laptop with more recent hardware in? If so, then this isn't an even comparison because the other machine Is not a Mac.

A Mac is:

1) Well designed and built to last
2) Power efficient
3) Equipped with Snow Leopard
4) Comes with some pretty decent software to get you started (iLife etc)
5) Backed up with top drawer technical support for both hardware and software.

None of these things have anything to do with featuring the latest hardware but are all exclusive to the experience of buying a mac.

A PC is:

1) Possibly well designed, but possibly also just plastic crud
2) Not power efficient if it's using the i7 and discrete graphics
3) Comes with Windows, for better or worse
4) At best comes with trial-ware, at worst comes with crap-ware.
5) Technical support is a lottery but chances are you'll end up talking to someone on another continent for whom English is a 2nd language.

I'd hate to have to go back to Windows again. The fact is if you want a Mac, you can either pay Apple's prices, build a Hackintosh or buy second hand. Those are your choices, simple as that

 

[linuxcooldude]

Right now software is way behind and still is catching up with the hardware. Most software is not optimised to use multiple core, multi-threads or even utilize 64 bit. It seems speed wise its still maxing out around 3 Ghz and that is the main advantage for single threaded/core apps. So other things now need to be taken into consideration. Like battery life, cooling ect.

Most desktops & laptops around the $500.00 range are more like disposable throw away computers. while they still might be more powerful, don't last that long before needing replaced. But then again that's what most people seem to want.

 

[ydaf]

This logic is flawed.

How is it a bad deal financially? Compared to what? A PC laptop with more recent hardware in? If so, then this isn't an even comparison because the other machine Is not a Mac.

A Mac is:

1) Well designed and built to last
2) Power efficient
3) Equipped with Snow Leopard
4) Comes with some pretty decent software to get you started (iLife etc)
5) Backed up with top drawer technical support for both hardware and software.

None of these things have anything to do with featuring the latest hardware but are all exclusive to the experience of buying a mac.

A PC is:

1) Possibly well designed, but possibly also just plastic crud
2) Not power efficient if it's using the i7 and discrete graphics
3) Comes with Windows, for better or worse
4) At best comes with trial-ware, at worst comes with crap-ware.
5) Technical support is a lottery but chances are you'll end up talking to someone on another continent for whom English is a 2nd language.

I'd hate to have to go back to Windows again. The fact is if you want a Mac, you can either pay Apple's prices, build a Hackintosh or buy second hand. Those are your choices, simple as that

Macs are well designed but it's not like they don't give problems. I've owned 2 MBPs over the last 4 years and both have had hardware failures. I also have had family and friends that have had issues with them. So it's not like they are immune to problems and "built to last". It's a human made machine and like Windows PCs, they will have their share of troubles.

One thing I will give to Macs is that they are easier to start working with from scratch (when buying new) but it's not like Windows 7 is a horrible OS that can't be configured to your needs.

Also why does Apple only give 90 days of technical phone support while most PC makers give a full year? For that price premium a full year would have been nice.

I've waited and waited for the new MBPs to come out and just couldn't anymore. Thanks to the ****ing iPad crap, most of Apple's focus is on that crap machine right now (and it seems more and more Apple are focusing on their gadgets). No way am I paying the same price for a Core 2 Duo machine with last year's graphics for the same price as when they were first released.

I got a great Windows laptop for the price of the mid level 15" MBP with 3 year warranty and far superior graphics and CPU than the current generation. It's not what I had in mind when I needed a new laptop but it's a great deal considering what the Mac is offering and at what price as well.

 

[Freyqq]

This logic is flawed.

How is it a bad deal financially? Compared to what? A PC laptop with more recent hardware in? If so, then this isn't an even comparison because the other machine Is not a Mac.

A Mac is:

1) Well designed and built to last
2) Power efficient
3) Equipped with Snow Leopard
4) Comes with some pretty decent software to get you started (iLife etc)
5) Backed up with top drawer technical support for both hardware and software.

None of these things have anything to do with featuring the latest hardware but are all exclusive to the experience of buying a mac.

A PC is:

1) Possibly well designed, but possibly also just plastic crud
2) Not power efficient if it's using the i7 and discrete graphics
3) Comes with Windows, for better or worse
4) At best comes with trial-ware, at worst comes with crap-ware.
5) Technical support is a lottery but chances are you'll end up talking to someone on another continent for whom English is a 2nd language.

I'd hate to have to go back to Windows again. The fact is if you want a Mac, you can either pay Apple's prices, build a Hackintosh or buy second hand. Those are your choices, simple as that

Your logic is flawed because you didn't understand my argument at all. I made no mention of the merits of a mac or a pc, but instead discussed that the macbook pro bought 269 days ago is exactly the same in price and specs as it is today. Because it is outdated and because it is the same price, it is a bad deal financially.

Mac vs PC is, and will always be, an argument over software not hardware.

 

[dukebound85]

Yes. The average Camry owner definitely knows that they are rocking a 2.4L. Or, just maybe they heard of the name 'Camry' before and knew it was a reliable car.

At your next traffic light, I dare you to lower your window and ask the driver next to you how much his engine displaces, or how much rear shoulder room he has.

I don't think so lol

I don't care how cheap a car is, no one shells out $1000's without knowing the basic specs of the car. Now someone driving a car that someone else bought (like my wife or kids) likely wouldn't have the foggiest (especially since my kids are 4 months old ), but no way you shell out 10, 20, 30K+ for a car and don't know at the very least "the liter number" (even if you don't know technically what that number means), and how many cylinders, in addition to the rough advertised MPG among other specs.

Exactly

You'd be surprised. Some people just want a car for a specific purpose other than speed.

So you think they just buy on name alone? gimme a break. People research it or are told all these facts by the salesman that then influences their decsion

 

[Gomff]

Your logic is flawed because you didn't understand my argument at all.

No it's not, and yes I did .

You are basing your argument on the notion that the value of a mac is just hardware I'm arguing that it's more than that, for all the reasons I outlined in my previous post. Why should those benefits (points one to 5 beneath what a mac is) depreciate over time in the same maner that components do?

 

[Gomff]

Macs are well designed but it's not like they don't give problems. I've owned 2 MBPs over the last 4 years and both have had hardware failures.

Sure, but I bet they got fixed pretty quickly and you ended up with working machines.

 

[6-0 Prolene]

So you think they just buy on name alone? gimme a break. People research it or are told all these facts by the salesman that then influences their decsion

Um, yeah, people do buy on name alone. I bet if you polled every registered computer owner in the country, about 2/3 wouldn't know the exact model of processor their computer has, Mac OR PC, and if they did it was just a fleeting thing while they were shopping.

Same with cars. If you don't think there are a significant number of people who buy a car not having any idea what MPG is expected, how many cylinders/HP/torque the car has, etc. you're delusional.

 

[DoFoT9]

No it's not, and yes I did .

You are basing your argument on the notion that the value of a mac is just hardware I'm arguing that it's more than that, for all the reasons I outlined in my previous post. Why should those benefits (points one to 5 beneath what a mac is) depreciate over time in the same maner that components do?

cuz thats what happens in the PC world

once the hardware/software starts going, the value of the computer to the owner goes down too.

 

[dukebound85]

Um, yeah, people do buy on name alone. I bet if you polled every registered computer owner in the country, about 2/3 wouldn't know the exact model of processor their computer has, Mac OR PC, and if they did it was just a fleeting thing while they were shopping.

Same with cars. If you don't think there are a significant number of people who buy a car not having any idea what MPG is expected, how many cylinders/HP/torque the car has, etc. you're delusional.

Noone buys a car jut because its a honda without looking at what it offers compared to other lines (companies or other cars by honda)

to believe so is being naive

 

[Freyqq]

No it's not, and yes I did .

You are basing your argument on the notion that the value of a mac is just hardware I'm arguing that it's more than that, for all the reasons I outlined in my previous post. Why should those benefits (points one to 5 beneath what a mac is) depreciate over time in the same maner that components do?

Because hardware is worth some percent of the total cost and software is worth some percent of the total cost. If one is diminished, the value of the whole drops.

By your logic, you could go buy a G4 for $2000 and install osx on it and be just as happy as buying the current macbook pro.

 

[DoFoT9]

Noone buys a car jut because its a honda without looking at what it offers compared to other lines (companies or other cars by honda)

to believe so is being naive

really? ill probs end up buying a subaru wrx some time. are there better performing cars out there? yes. are they cheaper? yes. do i care? no.... i want what i want because i want it and i think they are cool.

same with macs

 

[dukebound85]

but why you want the wrx as opposed to the base imprezza? because of the specs right?

 

[Orien]

Noone buys a car jut because its a honda without looking at what it offers compared to other lines (companies or other cars by honda)

to believe so is being naive

Brand plays a huge role in nearly all purchasing decisions for many consumers. Car shoppers in the higher-end sport/luxury markets view brand prestige as possibly the most important factor.