Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apples MacBook Pro: Rotting Core? What Apple Doesn't Want You To Realize.
- Thread starter wikoogle
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
That's because you buy products based on the specs. More people buy products to solve a problem, or make their life easier, better, or because they think it'll improve their love life.
Apple products are about solutions to problems.... They are about how fast you can figure out how to do something that you have just discovered you want to be able to do, not how fast it actually takes to get it done.
For example: A year ago my wife (who cares nothing at for tech and uses Apple products really only because I don't know enough about Windows to support a PC) decided she wanted to make a photo-book of a recent trip. I pointed out that iPhoto, which she uses occasionally, had that feature and I copied my photos of the trip over to folder on her system and showed her how to import the images into iPhoto. After that I didn't think much more about it.
Couple of days later she showed me a nearly complete digital version of, frankly, a kick-ass photo-book of our trip. I spent a couple of hours tweaking the photos, but that was it. We had it printed up and gave it away as presents.
My point is that she had a "problem" - she wanted to make a book as a gift. Apple provided a hardware-software solution that took her very little time to figure out. A better spec'ed system would have been faster, and saved her something like 5 minutes over the course of the project. Like all things Apple, its not about just the hardware, it's about how the whole package works together. Its about being fast enough to give a good user experience.... not about being the fastest.
That also goes for Windows users too my man. Interesting that you limited your argument to Mac users like we're stupid.
First off, I'm a mac user... And I buy something because it has a value I associate to me that is greater than the paper currency that I exchange for it. You do as well.
Secondly however, it still doesn't change the phenomenon that was Apple in the last 2 years during a tough economic time. With house sales in the dump, jobless rates higher than its been in decades, and the dollar slumping in value, it's absolutely remarkable. I don't care what rational you would like to equate, for the majority, Apple products are purchased with disposable income, and are not a necessity. In a time when people are missing mortgage payments I find it amazing, magical even, that now only Apple's revenue was up, but they did it while increasing margins as well...so it's not like they dropped prices to increase demand.
There it is in a nutshell....The reason why Apple's proposition is about more than the hardware specs.
Their revenues have mostly increased from the enormous success of the iPhone, not from computer sales, though sales of Mac's were up year to year. And the world does not revolve around America -- many of Apple's increasing sales is due to penetration into international markets.
Thanks for the economics lesson, but:
#1 the majority of Apple's sales are in the US
#2 the worldwide economy was/is also in a recession, not just the US
#3 as much as it might be a prideful sting to Euros and Asian alike, the world economy does currently hinge greatly on the US. In 50 years, I have no doubt that pendulum will shift.
For the love of... So many Apple apologists in this thread. I admire their products and have been buying them for 20+ years, but you've got to be kidding me. I mean, it's great that someone's wife can build a photo album quickly -- and I just taught my Mom to do the same thing on her new MacBook over Christmas -- but this article and thread are about the PRO line of hardware. Not the same target audience.
And Apple's pro line is woefully overpriced and out of date right now.
I get the impression that some of the posters in this thread would be happy to spend top dollar on car models from three or four years ago. I mean, it's about the experience, amirite?
Macs are cool right now among the general populace, bolstered in no small part by the favorable opinion of the iPod / iPhone which have massive marketshare. But opinions are fickle and easily influenced. The general public would state "Vista is terrible" and "Windows 7 is great" even if most of them couldn't even tell you why. If Apple doesn't put some focus back on the pro line with either improvements or price cuts, a few months from now the general public will start to think again that "Apple products are outdated and overpriced" once these articles spread to more mainstream media. That doesn't help anyone who likes Apple products and enjoys the benefits that mainstream success has brought to our favorite platform.
And to the apologists, don't feed us this "Apple products aren't about performance, they're about solutions!" malarkey either. Apple tries to push performance every chance they get when they introduce products. Apple's own product page does this right now, touting "High performance.
With the latest Intel processors and other engineering leaps, a new Mac does all the things that only a Mac can do at an astonishing speed".
Do they say that with a straight face?
And Apple's pro line is woefully overpriced and out of date right now.
I get the impression that some of the posters in this thread would be happy to spend top dollar on car models from three or four years ago. I mean, it's about the experience, amirite?
Macs are cool right now among the general populace, bolstered in no small part by the favorable opinion of the iPod / iPhone which have massive marketshare. But opinions are fickle and easily influenced. The general public would state "Vista is terrible" and "Windows 7 is great" even if most of them couldn't even tell you why. If Apple doesn't put some focus back on the pro line with either improvements or price cuts, a few months from now the general public will start to think again that "Apple products are outdated and overpriced" once these articles spread to more mainstream media. That doesn't help anyone who likes Apple products and enjoys the benefits that mainstream success has brought to our favorite platform.
And to the apologists, don't feed us this "Apple products aren't about performance, they're about solutions!" malarkey either. Apple tries to push performance every chance they get when they introduce products. Apple's own product page does this right now, touting "High performance.
With the latest Intel processors and other engineering leaps, a new Mac does all the things that only a Mac can do at an astonishing speed".
Do they say that with a straight face?
But why do you care that much? Are you a NASA engineer, or do you just want to hold your head up high at the local Starbucks?For the love of... So many Apple apologists in this thread. I admire their products and have been buying them for 20+ years, but you've got to be kidding me. I mean, it's great that someone's wife can build a photo album quickly -- and I just taught my Mom to do the same thing on her new MacBook over Christmas -- but this article and thread are about the PRO line of hardware. Not the same target audience.
And Apple's pro line is woefully overpriced and out of date right now.
I get the impression that some of the posters in this thread would be happy to spend top dollar on car models from three or four years ago. I mean, it's about the experience, amirite?
Macs are cool right now among the general populace, bolstered in no small part by the favorable opinion of the iPod / iPhone which have massive marketshare. But opinions are fickle and easily influenced. The general public would state "Vista is terrible" and "Windows 7 is great" even if most of them couldn't even tell you why. If Apple doesn't put some focus back on the pro line with either improvements or price cuts, a few months from now the general public will start to think again that "Apple products are outdated and overpriced" once these articles spread to more mainstream media. That doesn't help anyone who likes Apple products and enjoys the benefits that mainstream success has brought to our favorite platform.
And to the apologists, don't feed us this "Apple products aren't about performance, they're about solutions!" malarkey either. Apple tries to push performance every chance they get when they introduce products. Apple's own product page does this right now, touting "High performance.
With the latest Intel processors and other engineering leaps, a new Mac does all the things that only a Mac can do — at an astonishing speed".
Do they say that with a straight face?
And since you used the car analogy: do you expect everyone to understand how carburetors work... and purchase their vehicles based on the model and brand of such internal components?
Gearheads and [hardware] geeks have their place (and are certainly entitled to opinions), but i wouldn't expect Ford or Apple to structure their business models around such a limited demographic.
The central example cited in that "Apple's MacBook Pro: Rotting Core?" opinion piece is totally flawed. The author starts by admitting that the Core 2 quad-core processors are not well suited to Apple's MacBook product line (because of its power requirements) but then he goes on to say the following:
The problem with that statement is that the only "mobile" Core i7 that became available six months ago was the Clarksfield and that chip is principally designed for high-battery-consumption, desktop-replacement laptops (and in any case there is no i5 version of Clarksfield). However, the desktop version of the Core i5/i7s (Lynnfield) did ship last fall (witness the updated iMacs using the Core i5/i7 processor that were introduced in Oct./Nov. 2009).
In any case, the Core i7/i5/i3 Mobile chip family (Arranadale) have not yet shipped in any large quantity and were just officially announced by Intel in early Jan. 2010 (which by my count isn't "six months ago."). In fact, most of the major PC manufacturers are just now beginning to ship or announce notebooks based upon Arrandale (some are advertising availability either this week or next). Thus, Apple isn't late with Arrandale (yet) and the whole "rotting core" claim is completely specious.
The following Wikipedia article gives a complete breakout of the Core i7 product line (note the release dates and the Thermal Design Power -- TDP -- since anything over 35W is unlikely to be used in a MacBook):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i7
and here is the wikipedia article on Arrandale
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrandale
It is true, however, that you can get a similarly spec'd PC for considerably less money than a Mac. It's also true that you can get quad-core, Core i7 (Clarksfield) PC notebooks with relatively poor battery life. However, the latter aren't suitable for the thin and light MacBook Pros that have traditionally offered very good battery life. So, the Apple MacBook "core" isn't rotting, it's just getting very near to the end of its shelf life. It's pretty obvious that the author of that "Rotting Core" opinion piece is poorly informed (i.e. Clarksfield isn't main-stream mobile, there is no Clarksfield i5, and Arrandale was just announced two months ago).
The problem with that statement is that the only "mobile" Core i7 that became available six months ago was the Clarksfield and that chip is principally designed for high-battery-consumption, desktop-replacement laptops (and in any case there is no i5 version of Clarksfield). However, the desktop version of the Core i5/i7s (Lynnfield) did ship last fall (witness the updated iMacs using the Core i5/i7 processor that were introduced in Oct./Nov. 2009).
In any case, the Core i7/i5/i3 Mobile chip family (Arranadale) have not yet shipped in any large quantity and were just officially announced by Intel in early Jan. 2010 (which by my count isn't "six months ago."). In fact, most of the major PC manufacturers are just now beginning to ship or announce notebooks based upon Arrandale (some are advertising availability either this week or next). Thus, Apple isn't late with Arrandale (yet) and the whole "rotting core" claim is completely specious.
The following Wikipedia article gives a complete breakout of the Core i7 product line (note the release dates and the Thermal Design Power -- TDP -- since anything over 35W is unlikely to be used in a MacBook):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i7
and here is the wikipedia article on Arrandale
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrandale
It is true, however, that you can get a similarly spec'd PC for considerably less money than a Mac. It's also true that you can get quad-core, Core i7 (Clarksfield) PC notebooks with relatively poor battery life. However, the latter aren't suitable for the thin and light MacBook Pros that have traditionally offered very good battery life. So, the Apple MacBook "core" isn't rotting, it's just getting very near to the end of its shelf life. It's pretty obvious that the author of that "Rotting Core" opinion piece is poorly informed (i.e. Clarksfield isn't main-stream mobile, there is no Clarksfield i5, and Arrandale was just announced two months ago).
I agree that it's frustrating watching Apple's Computer line seemingly lag behind whilst they develop yet another device for spending money in the iTunes store. But I'm sure some of their engineers have been busy working away on bringing the Mac right back in line with current specs.
There's no reason to doubt they'll come up with something good again....We're at the point just before an update when current mac laptops are at their oldest spec-wise.
As an aside, there's an awful lot of spoilt, childish talk on the forums at the moment along the lines of "If the new macs don't have x,y and z then I and everyone else won't be buying them etc etc", as if Apple should be personally designing bespoke machines just for them. Apple are doing just fine! They have billions in the bank and their business model seems to be working out pretty well for them.
There's no reason to doubt they'll come up with something good again....We're at the point just before an update when current mac laptops are at their oldest spec-wise.
As an aside, there's an awful lot of spoilt, childish talk on the forums at the moment along the lines of "If the new macs don't have x,y and z then I and everyone else won't be buying them etc etc", as if Apple should be personally designing bespoke machines just for them. Apple are doing just fine! They have billions in the bank and their business model seems to be working out pretty well for them.
has anyone actually tried to use a full hd 15" screen? Its horrendous, and you cant see sh*&. Unless apple made it so when you tun the res down it doesent look like crap im happy with the resolutions
And the problem with your statement is that you assume that all Mac users want only one kind of a laptop (and that would be the one Apple gives them). People need all kinds of laptops. PC platform offers them wide selection with battery life ranging from 2 to 14 hours. Apple seemingly caters only to college students (mostly stupid ones I might add because they definitely could do everything they need to do on a $600 laptop)
I'll bet this REALLY grates, huh...?
https://www.macrumors.com/2010/03/04/fortune-names-apple-worlds-most-admired-company/
I really think you're confusing my compliment for some PC using Apple basher...I AM a Mac user...so no, it doesn't "grate".
There is absolutely no problem with my statement. Where did I claim that Apple makes computers that are suitable for all people or markets? In fact, I gave examples of where Apple doesn't directly compete (high-power, desktop replacement laptops and/or low price offerings). In any case, I'd agree 100% that Apple does not provide solutions for every person or market, there I said it, although I didn't even come close to suggesting otherwise in my original post.
The point I was making is that the "Rotting Core" article seems to have factual errors. Do you wish to refute that or can you give an example of a manufacturer who actually shipped an Arrandale-based laptop up to six months ago (or even a mobile Core i5)? Clarksfield is most likely not what Apple will be using in the next MacBook Pro. If you absolutely need Clarksfield (which is only available as a relatively high-power-consumption quad-core) then Apple is most likely not for you.
It's just about buyer's remorse. This laptop that I am using as my main machine is over 3 years old and still kicks the crap out of most people's PCs. Yes, it doesn't have a 3.0Gb/s SATA connection, nor do I have a multitouch track pad, or DDR3 RAM, but it's till working more than perfectly for me. I plan to get a few more years out of it too. So realistically whether you buy now or wait a month or so you're still getting a mighty fine machine.
Eidorian, like you at one point I thought a liberal arts degree had something to do with being an artist. It doesn't.
The "arts" in liberal arts is used in the same sense as "art" in "state of the art", which refers to how something is done. The only difference between a liberal arts university and any other university is that you are required to study a few classes that are outside of your core focus in order to graduate. The idea behind this is that it makes you more well rounded. There are plenty of people with CS degrees, biology degrees, etc. that graduated from liberal arts institutions. The difference is that they probably had to take some literature, economics and humanity courses on top of their hardcore science classes.
The irony is that, back in the day, just about everyone and their dad could easily work on their car: from basic maintance to [quite frequently] engine work. These days you're lucky if you can change the oil by yourself, let alone diagnose any potential problems.
Technology has changed, and people can't or won't be bothered to keep up or understand it. A lot of times, they don't want to. They want it to "just work", and they're more than willing to dump hundreds of dollars for companies to clean up their digital messes, made out of complete ignorance.
Of course, corporations know this. The real money is in the services: Antivirus, anti-spyware, and then selling additional service plans or charging huge sums of money to places like Geek Squad to fix machines that had plenty of protection, but an "operator" that had no clue how it worked and thus overrode X warning on any given day.
It's not surprising that Apple still continues to sell their hardware, honestly. "It just works" is USUALLY not far off the mark. They have excellent customer service, and [if you buy apple care] great phone and warranty support. Hence the inflated premium on the hardware. It offsets the majority lost from bundled ads and crapware, as well as all those pesky trips to the . . ahhh "geek" squad.
As for me, I live my tech life by the addage "Those who do not embrace technology are doomed to be replaced by it". You can argue that the person who pays $40k for the used green Geo metro is just as happy as the person that pays $20k for the fully loaded Mercedes because "he loves that color green". I'll still pointedly call him a complete idiot in my brain a thousand times. Not out loud tho, I'm not THAT big an @$$hole. Besides, that's how I ended up with such a great machine.
But don't you worry about me. I know how to rebuild that Holly 4 barrel on that 69 Camaro with that BIG OLD hurst shift rod
I'm a software engineer. Actually, I lead development at a small software company that has to build for Mac, Win, and Linux. With a MBP our developers can run them all on a single machine.
Performance matters to us, especially when we are running multiple OSes at once.
Nice try attempting to turn this into some ego trip desire. Assuming that the case doesn't change -- which I don't care about -- the Starbucks patrons wouldn't know if I had last year's model or this one. I would.
Huh? That doesn't even make sense. Or are you trying to imply that the only differences between successive car models are low-level specs that mechanics understand?
Car models improve year-to-year with changes that laymen understand just fine. So do (most vendors') laptop models.
I always thought the "Pro" in MacBook Pro meant "Professional". My bad. I'm glad my kind are entitled to opinions, though!
People buy cars based on Brand/Reliability/Looks/Type. No one looks at displacement, gear ratios, and how much rear shoulder room is available.
In the case of MBPs, we don't buy them for the specs. We buy it for the OS/Design/Brand/Service. These categories are still at the top of the game, which explains why sales are flying despite 'older' hardware.
If we bought them for specs, we wouldn't be buying MBPs in the first place.
In the case of MBPs, we don't buy them for the specs. We buy it for the OS/Design/Brand/Service. These categories are still at the top of the game, which explains why sales are flying despite 'older' hardware.
If we bought them for specs, we wouldn't be buying MBPs in the first place.
