Wonder if the big ol' dip in harware sales will light a fire under Apple to get their act together.. But then, has it ever? 
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Apple 2nd Quarter Financial Results Stream
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Mantat said:
Normally, I would agree with you, but the last few weeks, Apple stock has seen pretty strong upward movement, sometimes even on down days of the market. So there is some type of expectation built in on the buy side. If the results are not that great (i.e. lower revenue than previous quarter, net loss, etc.) we could see a 15-20% knee-jerk reaction the day after the call.
Dont Hurt Me said:
Why aren't you running Apple then? You had better give them a call next week!
Me, DHM, and a pack of rabid monkeys could do a better job at Apple.. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.
Superdrive said:
Well, with the new accounting practices issued about expensing stock options, Apple should show quite a loss (as they would have for the past few quarters at least!) This will be a bit of a reality check for those who believe that Apple's profitablity is secure.
On a sidenote, Microsoft was one of the first tech companies to expense stock options. I believe they started doing so about 2 quarters ago when their earnings looked a little anaemic (well, anaemic for Microsoft would still be a great quarter for pretty much any other company.) Apple stockholders took a vote on this issue quite awhile ago, but Jobs and Co (the board) swayed stockholders not to adopt these new (some would say "more realistic") accounting practices. It was only a matter of time before it caught up with everyone in the wake of all the SEC issues in the past few years. It will also level the playing field between those forward-thinking companies and those hanging on to the past (plus it'll be a lot easier for stockholders to evaluate the standings of companies when there aren't two different ways of doing things.)
All I can say for now is that be prepared to see a lot of red in Apple's ledger books for awhile.
On a sidenote, Microsoft was one of the first tech companies to expense stock options. I believe they started doing so about 2 quarters ago when their earnings looked a little anaemic (well, anaemic for Microsoft would still be a great quarter for pretty much any other company.) Apple stockholders took a vote on this issue quite awhile ago, but Jobs and Co (the board) swayed stockholders not to adopt these new (some would say "more realistic") accounting practices. It was only a matter of time before it caught up with everyone in the wake of all the SEC issues in the past few years. It will also level the playing field between those forward-thinking companies and those hanging on to the past (plus it'll be a lot easier for stockholders to evaluate the standings of companies when there aren't two different ways of doing things.)
All I can say for now is that be prepared to see a lot of red in Apple's ledger books for awhile.
Dont Hurt Me said:How are you going to spin we have now reached the 1% market share that all the bmw lovers say is Great for Apple. you know the ones who want to be the only one with a Mac. This will be a very very bad qtr for Apple. taking to long to boot out G4 and taking to long to get everyone on a current chip such as G5. Its Apples Fault for taking way to long to get off the turtle they have been riding known as G4. The Desktop line is a mess. Apple should focus on computers that the public wants not computers that Jobs & Ives want to build. Powermac,Imac,Emac everyone of these are missing the market. Unless you want that 1%
I agree partly. In terms of Apple as a computer company it has been a horrible quarter. But, the over-hyped line of iPods will still woo investors into buying Apple stock.
But, because there have been no new computer releases, it has been a simply horrible quarter in my opinion.
There was an argument a while back, and it was a porr and incorrect one, that Apple would always be around in some form otherwise M$ would be a true 100% monopoly.. So, popular thought was that Gates, or some such entity, would keep Apple afloat to keep the justice department at bay.
Well, now 2 things have happened:
1. We've seen that the justice department doesn't care that M$ has a monopoly (only the EU seems to), so M$ can so whatever they please.
2. Linux. Linux has overtaken Apple for OS markethare, and will probably soon do so on install base. So, it can be said that Linux is the new Apple of sorts. Accept, that Linux is widely accepted, cheap, stable, open, and actually worries M$, unlike Apple who no one, save us here on these boards, thinks is viable anymore.
With Linux, Apple isn't needed from the market's perspective, and Steve hasn't woken up to that yet. So, he'll charge double, not supply, and it's spiraling. Unless he's planning on spinning off the music section of Apple and letting the computer harware biz die, then he's got to do something.
Well, now 2 things have happened:
1. We've seen that the justice department doesn't care that M$ has a monopoly (only the EU seems to), so M$ can so whatever they please.
2. Linux. Linux has overtaken Apple for OS markethare, and will probably soon do so on install base. So, it can be said that Linux is the new Apple of sorts. Accept, that Linux is widely accepted, cheap, stable, open, and actually worries M$, unlike Apple who no one, save us here on these boards, thinks is viable anymore.
With Linux, Apple isn't needed from the market's perspective, and Steve hasn't woken up to that yet. So, he'll charge double, not supply, and it's spiraling. Unless he's planning on spinning off the music section of Apple and letting the computer harware biz die, then he's got to do something.
Dont Hurt Me said:How are you going to spin we have now reached the 1% market share that all the bmw lovers say is Great for Apple. you know the ones who want to be the only one with a Mac. This will be a very very bad qtr for Apple. taking to long to boot out G4 and taking to long to get everyone on a current chip such as G5. Its Apples Fault for taking way to long to get off the turtle they have been riding known as G4. The Desktop line is a mess. Apple should focus on computers that the public wants not computers that Jobs & Ives want to build. Powermac,Imac,Emac everyone of these are missing the market. Unless you want that 1%
Corrections
1. iPod Mini production is limited by the number of 1" hard drives being made by the only supplier who has them: Hitachi. This is not Apple's bad business sense.
2. Non-US iTunes store is limited by the red tape of other countries' laws and lawyers and the labels in those countries. That is why nobody ELSE has created a uniform internaltional music store either. Just something in certain markets. Apple is going for doing it right.
Mantat said:
1. iPod Mini production is limited by the number of 1" hard drives being made by the only supplier who has them: Hitachi. This is not Apple's bad business sense.
2. Non-US iTunes store is limited by the red tape of other countries' laws and lawyers and the labels in those countries. That is why nobody ELSE has created a uniform internaltional music store either. Just something in certain markets. Apple is going for doing it right.
The trolls are out
Amusing trolling there.
As for Linux... it has it's place and it's a BIG place and that's all good. But it is in NO way a replacement for Mac OS X. The percentage of people who would be served as well by Linux as by OS X is pretty small. And that awareness is increasing.
The idea that Linux is "as good as" OS X is more amusing trolling.
Some_Big_Spoon said:
Amusing trolling there.
As for Linux... it has it's place and it's a BIG place and that's all good. But it is in NO way a replacement for Mac OS X. The percentage of people who would be served as well by Linux as by OS X is pretty small. And that awareness is increasing.
The idea that Linux is "as good as" OS X is more amusing trolling.
I actually think Linux is better than OSX, but that's the Slashdotter in me.
OSX is the GUI on UNIX/BSD.. the GUI works for the newbs, and for those of us who are technical, the command line is best. Apple wants into corporate, college,science, so those folks can be served very well, and arguable better on some things, with Linux, and better on some things with OSX.
Also take into account that Linux is only roughly 10 years old, and hasn't reached anything close to maturity.. That being said, it's amazing that it's as, well, amazing as it is with only being picked up by the "corporate world" in the past couple years.
When it comes to maturity, just think of it's numbers compared to Apple.. it'll be many, many times over. Just slap a GUI on it, which IBM is doing, and you've got yourself a desktop OS ready to go. How does that not serve OSX users needs?
It's not trolling really, I love OSX, and I'm using it right now, and will continue to do so, I'm just saying that Linux is gaining momentum, and Apple's engine's sputting out. Can that be fixed? Absoultely!! But not the way they're going about it now.
OSX is the GUI on UNIX/BSD.. the GUI works for the newbs, and for those of us who are technical, the command line is best. Apple wants into corporate, college,science, so those folks can be served very well, and arguable better on some things, with Linux, and better on some things with OSX.
Also take into account that Linux is only roughly 10 years old, and hasn't reached anything close to maturity.. That being said, it's amazing that it's as, well, amazing as it is with only being picked up by the "corporate world" in the past couple years.
When it comes to maturity, just think of it's numbers compared to Apple.. it'll be many, many times over. Just slap a GUI on it, which IBM is doing, and you've got yourself a desktop OS ready to go. How does that not serve OSX users needs?
It's not trolling really, I love OSX, and I'm using it right now, and will continue to do so, I'm just saying that Linux is gaining momentum, and Apple's engine's sputting out. Can that be fixed? Absoultely!! But not the way they're going about it now.
nagromme said:
That's completely absurd. See http://daringfireball.net/ for a reality check.Some_Big_Spoon said:
Having said that, I always thought that it would have been interesting had Apple built OS X on top of the Linux kernel and userland base. If they had (and I'm not saying it would or wouldn't have been better, I'm just speculating) we'd have by FAR the best Linux distro in the world. There are lots of places your mind can take you with that fantasy. But unfortunately or not, it's just that, fantasy.
John
Expect bad news
Let's see, few new products, and those that were new never shipped in volume or in the volume needed to meet demand. The mini has an incredibly small profit margins and probably ate somewhat into sales of higher end and higher profit margin iPods. Millions of songs were given away for free and millions more were spent to promote two things that most consumers couldn't get for most of the quarter, the mini and the Pepsi bottles. Expect the entire line of computers to be down because people were waiting for updates that never came. The entire mac line is long overdue for updates. The newest model, the iBook is now 5.5 months old and it's a pathetically glacially slow performer. The G5 is nearly 10 months from announcement and 8 months from shipping.
Let's see, few new products, and those that were new never shipped in volume or in the volume needed to meet demand. The mini has an incredibly small profit margins and probably ate somewhat into sales of higher end and higher profit margin iPods. Millions of songs were given away for free and millions more were spent to promote two things that most consumers couldn't get for most of the quarter, the mini and the Pepsi bottles. Expect the entire line of computers to be down because people were waiting for updates that never came. The entire mac line is long overdue for updates. The newest model, the iBook is now 5.5 months old and it's a pathetically glacially slow performer. The G5 is nearly 10 months from announcement and 8 months from shipping.
Listen, I know Linux isn't what OSX is.. I get it, but for the average person, for e-mail, web surfing, listening to music, etc., Linux is ready. For enterprise computing, Linux is ready. For CGI, Linux is ready. For ipoding, there's a bit to go ;-).
Did I not articulate well? I'm just saying the Linux is being distributed more widely now that Apple, and will be installed further than Apple soon. I don't like it, I don't want it, but it's coming. And when Linux hits the desktop for real, then what's Apple to do? I'm not picking a fight, I'm genuinely concerned here.
There's been a wacky rumor around Linux boards, and /., that Linux will be integrated into 10.4,10.5... how they know is beyond me, but hey, Apple could do Linux, and wouldn't that be great?? You'd have not only the most advanced OS in the world, but it'd be ready to rock on all the PPC hardware that IBM's cranking out We'd have the same vulnerabilities as Linux users do, so that'd be icky.. Dare to dream though.
Did I not articulate well? I'm just saying the Linux is being distributed more widely now that Apple, and will be installed further than Apple soon. I don't like it, I don't want it, but it's coming. And when Linux hits the desktop for real, then what's Apple to do? I'm not picking a fight, I'm genuinely concerned here.
There's been a wacky rumor around Linux boards, and /., that Linux will be integrated into 10.4,10.5... how they know is beyond me, but hey, Apple could do Linux, and wouldn't that be great?? You'd have not only the most advanced OS in the world, but it'd be ready to rock on all the PPC hardware that IBM's cranking out
We'd have the same vulnerabilities as Linux users do, so that'd be icky.. Dare to dream though.johnpg said:
rog said:
Yeah, and the powerbooks, which are stilll WAY BEHIND the G5's, which are way behind. Ah, gotta love the theoretical nature of their power line . . .
[Note: the BBB's recent decision]
Don't forget The New Accounting Rules
Maybe they should release new hadware on the same day to distract from all the bad news
Maybe they should release new hadware on the same day to distract from all the bad news
rog said:
Yeah I probably should have been more specific. I didn't really disagree with most of what you said. It was just the "slap a GUI on it and it's ready" part that I thought was really wrong. Linux totally and completely sucks as a desktop OS. I say that and at the same time say I LOVE Linux. But it's not ready and I'm finding it hard to imagine how it ever will be unless there really is some serious consolidation in the GUI and real guidelines that people follow. Who knows when/if that will happen?Some_Big_Spoon said:
There's been a wacky rumor around Linux boards, and /., that Linux will be integrated into 10.4,10.5... how they know is beyond me, but hey, Apple could do Linux, and wouldn't that be great?? You'd have not only the most advanced OS in the world, but it'd be ready to rock on all the PPC hardware that IBM's cranking out
I doubt that will happen though. What's worse, even if it did, unless Apple completely open sourced the full GUI and let other distributions (even x86) use it they wouldn't really increase their adoption. Even if OS X ran commercial Linux binaries (which it wouldn't since most would be x86) they'd still all use X11 and not Aqua. So the situation wouldn't be much different than it is now. It's easy to recompile for OS X and X11. They'd have to completely open Aqua to make it work right and be accepted. But if they did that they'd be dead. Nobody would buy Macs anymore. It's a no win situation unfortunately.
John
Some_Big_Spoon said:
First off, the command line, for certain tasks, is faster. That does not necessarily make it better. I mean, the last time I did some graphic design, page layout, web application programming, or video editing the GUI was pretty important. I bet I can manipulate programs and documents faster in Expose than you can using 'fg'.
If you think that Linux is anything but an extension of UNIX, which has been around for ages, you're deluding yourself. (Yes, OS X is too).
"Slap a GUI on it?" Ugh. Maybe you should read this. You know what? There's another OS that's pretty damn stable, and has a better UI than Linux - it's called Windows XP. And guess what...? It doesn't serve OS X users' needs.
Could you please explain to me how Apple's engine is "sputting out?" No, really - I think their improvements to OS X in the past two years have been amazing. Linux is gaining momentum because it's free, runs on shoddy PC hardware that people have sitting in their den, closet, or office, has better security than Windows, and has an active developer community.
Hah nice - I swear I didn't read your post before I linked to the same article, for exactly the same quote.johnpg said:
Instead we'll have to settle for the best operating system in the world.
Well, IBM has really taken to Linux on the Desktop in a big way, for better or for worse. And Sun has begun their push as well, but yes, I agree, there needs to be a standard, and I think there will be, just because there's so much money to be made from it.
I use RedHat on x86 and YDL on PPC. Once a big company, IBM , throws their weight behind a major distro, then the public will feel better about adopting it on the desktop. In my argument, that's when Apple is truly, truly in trouble
I use RedHat on x86 and YDL on PPC. Once a big company, IBM , throws their weight behind a major distro, then the public will feel better about adopting it on the desktop. In my argument, that's when Apple is truly, truly in trouble
johnpg said:
You know, I don't exactly know what the financial conference call will say. Sales may be down. But you know what? I really doubt this would be the reason why. While PowerMac G4s were languishing, sales were down because of slow performance, and the fact that something was on the horizon. But if a business or a professional needs a G5 right now, they'll buy a G5.rog said:
Take note: I'm excluding everyone on MacRumors from that above statement. You know why? Because we're on MacRumors. We obviously follow this kind of stuff, and even get some enjoyment out of it. But along with that comes the tendency to think that even 1% of people out there think along those same lines. That's not the case. I went to the Apple Store this weekend, and it was full of people - and not just on the iPods. (And you know what...? Some of them were even looking at the "glacially slow" iBook.)
God, I'm posting a lot today. Maybe it's an attempt to rid myself of the "macrumors newbie" scarlet letter.