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aswitcher said:
If they were bigger economies of scale would bring down their prices and they would grow...that would be nice.

If we had some ham, we could have ham and eggs, if we had some eggs. :)

Seriously, I'd like to thank each and every one of you for not coming up with any new rumors this weekend. You knew my G5 is only a week old and didn't want to make me feel bad. Thanks - you people are the greatest.

:p
 
Don't worry - OS X is 32-bit for the next few years

Sped said:
Although I have some fear that OS X will become highly optimized for 64 bit computing leaving G4 and older processors out in the cold....

Don't worry - OS X is still a 32-bit operating system, and Apple has not even begun to describe their roadmap for moving to a 64-bit operating system.

By the time they finish the transition, the G4 will be so old that few people will even care....
 
"How are you going to spin we have now reached the 1% market share that all the bmw lovers say is Great for Apple. you know the ones who want to be the only one with a Mac. This will be a very very bad qtr for Apple. taking to long to boot out G4 and taking to long to get everyone on a current chip such as G5. Its Apples Fault for taking way to long to get off the turtle they have been riding known as G4. The Desktop line is a mess. Apple should focus on computers that the public wants not computers that Jobs & Ives want to build. Powermac,Imac,Emac everyone of these are missing the market. Unless you want that 1%"

How a rational person can call this trolling is beyond me.

I have owned macs for longer than many of you have probably been alive, going back to 1982. I have been thru it all, clones, steve jobs, no steve jobs, etc., and this is without a doubt the low point of owning a mac.

It is also the closest i have come to purchasing a pc, as it seems apple has simply abandoned its hardware desktop market. I was in compusa, and when i asked the apple specialist why hadnt there been any info about a desktop release, his response was that "macs are so much faster than what ever else is out there, they dont need to put any machines out for years." Is this guy on crack?

What is so typically irritating about this response is the utter arrogance of it, that the average apple customer has no knowledge of the world, only what jobs WANTS you to know. The fact that it is absolute crap only worsens the situation. I told the guy he is totally wrong, and left it at that.

I use my mac for music composition, in the past apple's second strongest after video production, that apple has abandoned the fastest. I have a G4/450 and was looking to upgrade to a new mac, but realize that it could be 5-6 months before the next generation of G5s is released. As such, i am seriously looking at a pc desktop and purchasing cubase, given that apple bought emagic and raised the price of logic to $1,000 - an outrage if there ever was one., given that there is no upgrade path unless you have a VERY recent copy of logic.

The fact is, is that apple has basically told its userbase to screw off, they, like gateway, are moving into other markets (iPod), and dont care that noone is buying their desktop products anymore.
 
What did you expect him to say? "New machines in a month, no need for you to buy one of these!"? Something like that? An Apple expert is not Apple, and just because he's a fool doesn't imply that everyone who works at apple is a fool. Shop assistants will never know _anything_ about future product releases, so I don't know why you even bothered asking him.

I disagree with the rest of your post as well. From my point of view, this is the best time (and for me, the only time) in history to own a Mac. They have the best high end line they've had in years, and the desktop line will surely be updated soon enough - I'm thinking June or before.

The cost of being a developer on the Mac has never been lower, the tools and frameworks have never been better, and I've never seen a better range of software available for the mac than is available now. I know five people (three from Unix, one from Ancient PC Land, one iMac upgrade) who have bought Macs in the last year, and _all_ of them are happy with their machines. I don't know anyone who has bought a new PC in the last year.

I own both a Mac and a PC Wintel laptop. The laptop is about three times faster than my eMac, and you know, that's utterly useless to me, because it's still so much easier and faster for me to get work done on my Mac. This is going to be even better when my G5 arrives in a few days. :)

rhodescholar said:
...his response was that "macs are so much faster than what ever else is out there, they dont need to put any machines out for years." Is this guy on crack?...
 
I think it's funny that an audio guy with an old-as-heck G4 is bashing Apple because they have no decent desktop offerings? I guess the G5s that will blow away any PC in terms of raw audio performance is, uh, nothing to bother with? That's right -- for audio processing, memory bandwidth is KEY, and the G5 has more than any other desktop out there. Why don't you actually look at the performance tests of the G5 vs. Intel and AMD solutions when it comes to audio work. The G5s blow them ALL away.

What ridiculous trolling. This is THE low point to own a Mac in the past 25 years? The best OS ever made, a hardware platform that actually has legs and can compete head-to-head with AMD and Intel offerings...

Sometimes I _really_ think that a lot of these anti-Apple posts are made by guerilla Intel marketers or something. For real -- this kind of thing does happen, maybe it's happening here? I don't know what else could explain such an utterly ridiculous lack of logic and common sense, other than a few 15 year olds having some fun with the Mac zealots. I doubt these people even own Macs.

Btw, Logic is too expensive for you, but you claim to be an audio pro or something? Give me a break, I doubt you are more than a hobbyist. Maybe Logic Express is more up your ally. Or reason. Or maybe you should look for a new hobby, and leave Logic and kick-butt G5s to the pros.

Sheesh. The trolls are really getting out of hand these days. I don't really remember it being this bad between product updates before. I guess Apple is doing something right, and is starting to scare the anti-Apple crowd even more than usual. That probably means awesome things coming down the pipe.
 
rhodescholar said:
"How are you going to spin we have now reached the 1% market share that all the bmw lovers say is Great for Apple. you know the ones who want to be the only one with a Mac. This will be a very very bad qtr for Apple. taking to long to boot out G4 and taking to long to get everyone on a current chip such as G5. Its Apples Fault for taking way to long to get off the turtle they have been riding known as G4. The Desktop line is a mess. Apple should focus on computers that the public wants not computers that Jobs & Ives want to build. Powermac,Imac,Emac everyone of these are missing the market. Unless you want that 1%"

How a rational person can call this trolling is beyond me.

I have owned macs for longer than many of you have probably been alive, going back to 1982. I have been thru it all, clones, steve jobs, no steve jobs, etc., and this is without a doubt the low point of owning a mac.

It is also the closest i have come to purchasing a pc, as it seems apple has simply abandoned its hardware desktop market. I was in compusa, and when i asked the apple specialist why hadnt there been any info about a desktop release, his response was that "macs are so much faster than what ever else is out there, they dont need to put any machines out for years." Is this guy on crack?

What is so typically irritating about this response is the utter arrogance of it, that the average apple customer has no knowledge of the world, only what jobs WANTS you to know. The fact that it is absolute crap only worsens the situation. I told the guy he is totally wrong, and left it at that.

I use my mac for music composition, in the past apple's second strongest after video production, that apple has abandoned the fastest. I have a G4/450 and was looking to upgrade to a new mac, but realize that it could be 5-6 months before the next generation of G5s is released. As such, i am seriously looking at a pc desktop and purchasing cubase, given that apple bought emagic and raised the price of logic to $1,000 - an outrage if there ever was one., given that there is no upgrade path unless you have a VERY recent copy of logic.

The fact is, is that apple has basically told its userbase to screw off, they, like gateway, are moving into other markets (iPod), and dont care that noone is buying their desktop products anymore.

Funny guy. Look seriously at a PC, do your homework on Apple sales, say and do what you like. It is a free world of ever inproving access to information. The info you are spreading seems to not bear up, but whatever.
 
Yes, i work for intel, and love bill gates. Get real, not everyone who complains about apple's bad decisions MUST be an enemy. You sound like an islamic-fascist: "either you agree with me that apple is above reproach, or else!!"

Funny thing happened to me this morning. I was sitting in an office lobby and the 4/04 Money magazine issue had an article mentioned on the cover that said EXACTLY what others have said in this thread before me, that the ipod is NOT going to save apple, and that apple's market share is falling fast.

This article has the statistics for numbers of desktop machines sold, which is more important than the number of OS' sold. Apple can sell 1 trillion ipods, and given the low profit margins on them, it wont make much difference. Apple needs to update its line more often than every 2 years or so.

As for my situation, unless you know the marketplace you are discussing, you are better off not mixing in. Everyone in audio KNOWS the g5 is faster, but this means nothing when apple JUST released a functional logic version that is compatible with osX. Go check the raging logic forum in yahoo groups to see what happened, and why so many composers are refusing to get a g5. I wont get into it here, but even apple's reps on the board (which is their primary venue for customer support for logic) were saying to stay with os9 for now. It is called "logic-forum" in yahoo groups if you are interested.

Further, apple changed its pci card structure so that all scsi-based legacy equipment, which many ppl rely upon (samplers, hardware recorders, etc) is now incompatible with the g5 - unless you want to spend $400 for an ultra-scsi card which buys FAR more capability than is needed. If they switched from the 5V pci slot to 3.3v for a good reason, fine, then they should offer a scsi-card thats is compatible with CURRENT g5, or at least leaned on 3rd party companies to make one like they did when they switched from serial to uSB. Since the cards changed, the audio recording solutions are up in the air, with m-audio possibly being the only reasonable solution for the moment.
 
Nicky G said:
"I think it's funny that an audio guy with an old-as-heck G4 is bashing Apple because they have no decent desktop offerings? I guess the G5s that will blow away any PC in terms of raw audio performance is, uh, nothing to bother with? That's right -- for audio processing, memory bandwidth is KEY, and the G5 has more than any other desktop out there. Why don't you actually look at the performance tests of the G5 vs. Intel and AMD solutions when it comes to audio work. The G5s blow them ALL away."

Who cares if apple is selling a supercomputer? If their own software doesnt work right - which logic didnt for a long time until in the last few months - what dif does it make?

Btw, Logic is too expensive for you, but you claim to be an audio pro or something? Give me a break, I doubt you are more than a hobbyist. Maybe Logic Express is more up your ally. Or reason. Or maybe you should look for a new hobby, and leave Logic and kick-butt G5s to the pros.

Where did i claim to earn a living from music? All i said was that i use my mac to make music. If you stopped being so hostile you might come across better.
 
This could be big: Gmail powered by Xserve!

"The Xserve shipping was delayed because: Google's Gmail is powered by Apple's Xserve and all produced units went Google's way..."

Interesting how many of you are wary about Apple's Q2 (including myself). However Steve Jobs knows a thing or two about huge announcements and surprises. The above rumour if through would be enormously positive for Apple's Xserve business.
The "claim" was posted to the Fool.com Apple forum and apparently reported by macslash.org (?)...

Even if the above claim isn't correct (it's pure speculation or fabrication probably, though it would be fab if it were true) I'm sure many of us can come up with other fab suprises that could swing the Q2 conference call in positive territory...
 
rhodescholar said:
Who cares if apple is selling a supercomputer? If their own software doesnt work right - which logic didnt for a long time until in the last few months - what dif does it make?

What _are_ you talking about? I have been using Logic on Macs since v.4, and it has always been light years ahead of other OS X-based audio programs. I have been on the Logic yahoo forum in the past, and I am a moderator on www.osxaudio.com. Lots of VERY happy Logic OS X users.

Is it hostility you sense in me, or, no pun intended, logic? I'm sorry, but your observations just do not mesh with those of TONS of other people. Your qualms may be legitimate, but they are hardly universal.
 
rhodescholar said:
How a rational person can call this trolling is beyond me.

It's really, really easy, actually, since DHM has very little in the way of facts to ever back anythign he says. It's an awful lot off impassioned personal testimony and opinion, but little citation.

Reading over your post, I can see why you agree with him. To arms...

I have owned macs for longer than many of you have probably been alive, going back to 1982. I have been thru it all, clones, steve jobs, no steve jobs, etc., and this is without a doubt the low point of owning a mac.

Actually, you're wrong. Most of the people around here are older than me, and I was born before you started using macs. This is especially funny, since you claim that you've been using macs since 1982, but the Macintosh 128k wasn't released until January 1984. At the time, I was using an Apple IIe, but I remember the Macintosh in its early days.

So, with this simple statement, you've already called your credibility into question.

It is also the closest i have come to purchasing a pc, as it seems apple has simply abandoned its hardware desktop market. I was in compusa, and when i asked the apple specialist

.....

The fact that it is absolute crap only worsens the situation. I told the guy he is totally wrong, and left it at that.

The inability of a salesman in a non-Apple store to answer your questions doesn't say anything about the company, nor does it reflect on the product line in any way. If that's your idea of a damning criticism of Apple, I suggest that you go remain right where you are, since the salespeople are just as likely to be ignorant of new happenings in the PC market.

Intel's facing a huge problem at the moment with their own megahertz myth, because it's poisoning their sales of Centrino laptops. People are buying the cheaper P4-M and Celeron laptops because the clock is higher, even though the newer chip is more power efficient and just as fast. There are some rumors floating around that Centrino desktops will start showing up soon, because they're not nearly as hot as P4s, but comparable in many aspects of performance.

I use my mac for music composition, in the past apple's second strongest after video production, that.....given that there is no upgrade path unless you have a VERY recent copy of logic.

Why? The current G5s are at least competitive with, if not superior to, anything in the PC creative sector for audio, and Logic is pretty highly looked upon in is latest incarnation. That being said, I have to wonder if you can point out a similarly high-grade creative professional program that has an upgrade path which would follow something more like what you apparently want. If you're running a Sawtooth and a copy of Logic purchased around the same time, then you've had some four or five years to have been maintaining your copy of the software.

I'm sure Microsoft will allow you to upgrade from 98 to XP for a discount. :rolleyes:

The fact is, is that apple has basically told its userbase to screw off, they, like gateway, are moving into other markets (iPod), and dont care that noone is buying their desktop products anymore.

They're moving off into other markets, which is why a major outlay was made on a totally new dual-processor systems, allied with the only major player in the desktop PPC game, sitting on an architecture that's still competitive after a year, and committed to jumping it by the end of the summer. That's probably also going to explain why they spent all the time and money to release, and then continue to maintain Panther...

rhodescholar said:
You sound like an islamic-fascist: "either you agree with me that apple is above reproach, or else!!"

Well, you narrowly avoided the Nazi reference. Good for you!

Funny thing happened to me this morning. I was sitting in an office lobby and the 4/04 Money magazine issue had an article mentioned on the cover that said EXACTLY what others have said in this thread before me, that the ipod is NOT going to save apple, and that apple's market share is falling fast.

Oh no, not the media predicting Apple's death again, and again, and again, and... You get the point, don't you? Apple has been dying for 20 years, if you listen to the media. It's what they apparently do best, since it's what's always reported on, because it makes better news than any kind of success story or, you know, actual journalism.

This article has the statistics for numbers of desktop machines sold, which is more important than the number of OS' sold. Apple can sell 1 trillion ipods, and given the low profit margins on them, it wont make much difference. Apple needs to update its line more often than every 2 years or so.

Yet Apple is making money and free of debt... Funny that.

Further, apple changed its pci card structure so that all scsi-based legacy equipment, which many ppl rely....Since the cards changed, the audio recording solutions are up in the air, with m-audio possibly being the only reasonable solution for the moment.

How can I put this?

The G5 moves on to entirely faster formats, things that are vastly superior to their older counterparts - USB2, FireWire 800, SATA, PCI-X, AGP 8x, PC3200, and so on. The whole package is new, and I couldn't put my legacy ATA drive in there, nor could I strip the RAM from my existing tower, were I to buy one. I can't reuse my graphics card, either! Horror!

You were just complaining that your G4 Sawtooth was too slow, and that tells me a lot about just how much money you're making as an audio "professional." Oh, wait... Now you're denying it and blaming your lack of clarity on others. How lovely.
 
thatwendigo said:
Actually, you're wrong. Most of the people around here are older than me, and I was born before you started using macs. This is especially funny, since you claim that you've been using macs since 1982, but the Macintosh 128k wasn't released until January 1984. At the time, I was using an Apple IIe, but I remember the Macintosh in its early days. So, with this simple statement, you've already called your credibility into question.

Get real. apple/macinstosh.. who gives a sh-t, except a fanatic apple lover like you? I hate gates more than anyone, but its fanatics like you who lap up everything jobs throws at you that is equally nauseating. Do you really think jobs, if he had 95% of the market, would be any less malevelant than billy? Dont bet on it.

The inability of a salesman in a non-Apple store to answer your questions doesn't say anything about the company, nor does it reflect on the product line in any way. If that's your idea of a damning criticism of Apple, I suggest that you go remain right where you are, since the salespeople are just as likely to be ignorant of new happenings in the PC market.

The apple reps are in a whole, imho, more arrogant than their pc brethren.

Why? The current G5s are at least competitive with, if not superior to, anything in the PC creative sector for audio, and Logic is pretty highly looked upon in is latest incarnation. That being said, I have to wonder if you can point out a similarly high-grade creative professional program that has an upgrade path which would follow something more like what you apparently want.

Hmmmm....performer, cubase...etc

If you're running a Sawtooth and a copy of Logic purchased around the same time, then you've had some four or five years to have been maintaining your copy of the software.

I never said i wouldnt pay for an upgrade, but i paid $700 for logic 4 years ago. Asking the user base to shell out another $999 for version 6 is BS, esp with the various logic forums raging about the incapatibilities. Did i mention how sounddiver is also pretty nonfunctional in osX? A setup with more than 1 device is useless without it.

They're moving off into other markets, which is why a major outlay was made on a totally new dual-processor systems, ...

What markets? They have lost home users, education, business, enterprise...all they have left is a slice of audio and video, with companies like adobe and others no longer offering mac versions of their apps. This is a problem.

Oh no, not the media predicting Apple's death again, and again, and again, and... You get the point, don't you? Apple has been dying for 20 years, if you listen to the media. It's what they apparently do best, since it's what's always reported on, because it makes better news than any kind of success story or, you know, actual journalism.

Point taken, but the numbers, if taken as a trend from 20 years ago, dont look good for apple. My preference would be to buy a mac BY FAR again, and was about to, but the lack of support the mac is getting, along with the lack of compatibility of osX with many audio apps, plugins, hardware etc., stopped me. My research has not been comforting to those who want to just go out and buy a new g5 and plug in all of their legacy equipment.

Computers need to be like the highway system, where just b/c you buy a new car doesnt mean you need to change the road system to drive it. Until the computer industry gets in their head that backwards compatibility is crucial, especially for those like me who no longer have hours on end to research solutions - and just throwing out all older equipment/spending vast $$ to solve the issue buying new - there will be significant resistance to upgrading.

Yet Apple is making money and free of debt... Funny that.

This is not accurate. Money posted public financial information, and apple is barely profitable. Margins are 1/4th of what they were 4 years ago.

The G5 moves on to entirely faster formats, things that are vastly superior to their older counterparts - USB2, FireWire 800, SATA, PCI-X, AGP 8x, PC3200, and so on. The whole package is new, and I couldn't put my legacy ATA drive in there, nor could I strip the RAM from my existing tower, were I to buy one. I can't reuse my graphics card, either! Horror!

Its more than just the video card, its many thousands of dollars in samplers, recording equipment, etc.

You were just complaining that your G4 Sawtooth was too slow, and that tells me a lot about just how much money you're making as an audio "professional." Oh, wait... Now you're denying it and blaming your lack of clarity on others. How lovely.

I didnt say it was too slow. I simply felt after 5 years it was time to upgrade to a newer machine. Can i still survive with my current setup? Sure, and there are people recording albums today using atari STs that are 20 years old or so. This upgrade is based more on personal desire, rather than on professional/functional need. Do i hear gear lust?

And since it didnt sink in the first 2 times, heres the third: i am not making money off my writing of music. Get it now?
 
Nicky G said:
What _are_ you talking about? I have been using Logic on Macs since v.4, and it has always been light years ahead of other OS X-based audio programs. I have been on the Logic yahoo forum in the past, and I am a moderator on www.osxaudio.com. Lots of VERY happy Logic OS X users.

Is it hostility you sense in me, or, no pun intended, logic? I'm sorry, but your observations just do not mesh with those of TONS of other people. Your qualms may be legitimate, but they are hardly universal.

I accept your comments, but understand that several audio engineers i am friends with, who are active in the logic forum and make a living in mastering/production, all independantly corroborated the same osX issues. I do not deny that some, even many osx/logic users are working correctly, but there are definitely compatibility issues. Thank you for the link, i will review the forum diligently, as it might have solutions to some of my questions.
 
rhodescholar said:
Get real. apple/macinstosh.. who gives a sh-t, except a fanatic apple lover like you? I hate gates more than anyone, but its fanatics like you who lap up everything jobs throws at you that is equally nauseating. Do you really think jobs, if he had 95% of the market, would be any less malevelant than billy? Dont bet on it.

Who cares? I'd say that anyone who's interested in the veracity of your claims ought to be paying attention to how you fumble something that easy and verifiable. I'm not a fanatic, but I am an Apple supporter, because I honestly haven't ever used a computer that had the same ease of use, but I know that it's possible something better will come along. If it does, then I'll switch, but until that day... Apple is the best GUI OS on the market, hands down, and it has been for some time.

Also, any point you make about Steve Jobs is irrelevant to this discuussion. Whether or not he would be ruthless doesn't matter to a discussion of Logic and the G5, because that situation doesn't exist.

The apple reps are in a whole, imho, more arrogant than their pc brethren.

Oh, well... I guess that it must be true if it's in your humble opinion.

Hmmmm....performer, cubase...etc

Cubase SX $799.99
Cubase SL2 $499.99

After that, I have a little trouble deciphering the chart, since I've never been a user of Cubase and don't know what the price points for the older version are.

I never said i wouldnt pay for an upgrade, but i paid $700 for logic 4 years ago. Asking the user base to shell out another $999 for version 6 is BS, esp with the various logic forums raging about the incapatibilities. Did i mention how sounddiver is also pretty nonfunctional in osX? A setup with more than 1 device is useless without it.

Then buy another program. The only vote that counts in a capitalist economy is the one that you make with your dollar. If you think Logic is overpriced, then don't use it, but whining about it on a web forum isn't going to change anything, and it only clutters the board with something that most of us see for what it is - sour grapes. You can't have your shiny new setup as cheaply as you want, so you're trying to get everyone else to avoid it, too.

What markets? They have lost home users, education, business, enterprise...all they have left is a slice of audio and video, with companies like adobe and others no longer offering mac versions of their apps. This is a problem.

I was being sarcastic about your ridiculous claim that Apple is moving into the music player market and only doing that.

Computers need to be like the highway system, where just b/c you buy a new car doesnt mean you need to change the road system to drive it. Until the computer industry gets in their head that backwards compatibility is crucial, especially for those like me who no longer have hours on end to research solutions - and just throwing out all older equipment/spending vast $$ to solve the issue buying new - there will be significant resistance to upgrading.

Then go bitch and moan at the manufacturers of your equipment, and not Apple. Expecting a hardware company to keep every legacy format in their machines is completely ludicrous. I mean, someone might still want to use the tape drive from their Commodore, so we better keep that in... While we're at it, let's make sure that everyone can plug in 5.25" floppies, magnetic spools, and IBM punchcards!

Would you like a side of ADB with that?

This is not accurate. Money posted public financial information, and apple is barely profitable. Margins are 1/4th of what they were 4 years ago.

It's not accurate, because Apple is barely profitable, according to a magazine. Well, I guess that shows us, since barely being profitable isn't a part of the subset of things that are included in "being profitable."

:rolleyes:

Its more than just the video card, its many thousands of dollars in samplers, recording equipment, etc.

Congratulations on expending that kind of money on outdated hardware. You know what's sitting in my garage? "Many thousands of dollars" in obsolete computer equipment. I better go complain that Apple doesn't make sure that my external SCSI CD drive doesn't plug into my eMac, or even into my G4 tower!

This upgrade is based more on personal desire, rather than on professional/functional need. Do i hear gear lust?

I figured that out before you ever admitted it.

And since it didnt sink in the first 2 times, heres the third: i am not making money off my writing of music. Get it now?

I got it, once you clarified that your self-righteousness was because of a hobby, and not from an actual profession.
 
rhodescholar said:
"How are you going to spin we have now reached the 1% market share that all the bmw lovers say is Great for Apple. you know the ones who want to be the only one with a Mac. This will be a very very bad qtr for Apple. taking to long to boot out G4 and taking to long to get everyone on a current chip such as G5. Its Apples Fault for taking way to long to get off the turtle they have been riding known as G4. The Desktop line is a mess. Apple should focus on computers that the public wants not computers that Jobs & Ives want to build. Powermac,Imac,Emac everyone of these are missing the market. Unless you want that 1%"

I use my mac for music composition, in the past apple's second strongest after video production, that apple has abandoned the fastest. I have a G4/450 and was looking to upgrade to a new mac, but realize that it could be 5-6 months before the next generation of G5s is released.

The fact is, is that apple has basically told its userbase to screw off, they, like gateway, are moving into other markets (iPod), and dont care that noone is buying their desktop products anymore.

I totally agree. Go ahead, everyone give me ****. I am working on Pro Tools, and have to upgrade my hardware if I want to get a G5 (Digidesign pci-cards are no longer compatible). That alone is frustrating, but understandable, but the worst is I have been waiting for several months for the 23" display update, with a new g5- I have 6,000 waiting to drop on this computer, and can't wait any longer...my dual sawtooth is so slow! What is wrong with that picture? And no, I don't want to buy the Rev. A g5. And no, i don't want to buy the older 23" HD monitor that has the old LCD technology.

I agree that if Apple can't keep their die-hard users happy, those of us who literally use every spare inch of their computer's available power, then they essentially lose their marketshare completely. I have persuaded over 5 people close to me to buy Apple computers, including my mother, so I'm not some PC freak. I would never buy a PC, but I am thoroughly dissapointed in Apple right now. I could not convince anyone to buy Apple stock, at least for long-term hold (I know, I know, the iPod inflated the stock), because the company is run poorly. Customers shouldn't have to wait for products, especially after they've purchased them. They act like the airlines..they know that people need their products for certain things, so they get comfortable. That's why Apple stock is not recommended by anyone who knows the market who OBJECTIVELY can stand back and look at the long-term. It's hard to realize that when you love their products, which I do. I hope I'm wrong. Please proceed with the "if you hate Apple, then get off this forum, PC loving a$$hole" comments.

To rhodescholar, I suggest you check out something other than Logic. If you're into MIDI, check out Digital Performer. Audio, there's no choice but Pro Tools. Cubase is OK, but Nuendo has the best hardware for the $. I have an RME/Nuendo 8 i/o converter that I use with my Pro Tools Rig, and it sounds fantastic. Much better than MOTU / Digi stuff (except for 192 HD). However, the MOTU 192 HD is pretty sick as well. By the way, is "rhodescholar" referring to a Fender Rhodes piano? If so, very cool. I have a '75 Mark I.

By the way, i am a professional audio producer so don't try and character assassinate me on some Dick Clarke ****. Thanks for hearing me whine! New G5's soon please!
 
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