Apple Abandons Car Plans 'For Now,' Sets Late 2017 Deadline to Decide Fate of Self-Driving System

[DrumApple]

Good idea, maybe try and first work on creating a version of iOS that isn't crap.

 

[SteveW928]

Yeap, although Tesla seems to have been 'experimenting' with its customers cars and autonomous driving, it has cut a bit of a niche as a high end luxury electric car brand, they can go what 300 miles ish now? Not bad.

Yes, they built the car first, and then started experimenting with 'automous-like' stuff. It's really just glorified cruise-control though. They really should be sued for calling it Autopilot, and for negligence. One would think Elon would have more sense than that, but he's philosophically committed and being in Silicon Valley, I guess they think slapping a 'beta' label on it resolves them of responsibility.

Never mind the cars, what's more worrying is they are pushing hard on autonomous trucks now! How's about 40 tons of robot driven lorry??? Not so sure I like it, unfortunately they are testing them and developing them here in the UK.

Truly scary. I absolutely don't like it. And, unfortunately, like Elon above, it's being driven by a mistaken philosophical commitment, not reality.
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Good idea, maybe try and first work on creating a version of iOS that isn't crap.

No doubt! They've got ***SO*** much work to do just to get iOS and macOS (OS X) back to the state they were in like 5 years ago (in terms of quality). The last thing they need right now is expanding into new areas they don't even know.

 

[Rogifan]

I agree with Gruber (and Marco Arment):

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/10/17/bloomberg-apple-car

Making a platform that Apple would, I can only suppose, license to actual car makers doesn’t sound anything like Apple at all. I’m not disputing Gurman and Webb’s reporting, I’m just pointing out that if true, it’s the most un-Apple-like project in the company’s history.

There are ways to square this story with Apple’s traditional integrated approach. Perhaps they’re thinking, Do the software first, see if we can do something worth making, and if so, buy a car company. But even that doesn’t sound like Apple.

Marco Arment:

Even if only the big-picture story is correct and every detail is wrong, Project Titan makes no sense to me now.

 

[jwdsail]

Well, that didn't take Bob Mansfield very long to conclusively determine this project was a money pit which made no rational sense. Musk must be gloating.

That's because Bob's actually a really smart guy. Apple needs more people like Bob.

Apple has given its automotive team a late 2017 deadline to "prove the feasibility" of its self-driving car system, and decide on a final direction for the platform, according to Bloomberg.

Apple's ambitions no longer include building its own car "for now," but it could return to developing its own vehicle in the future, or partner with existing carmakers, the report claims.

The project's shift has allegedly resulted in hundreds of employees being reassigned, let go, or leaving on their own terms since August, including more than 120 software engineers.

The remaining members of Apple's car team, which comprises about 1,000 people, are said to be working on "autonomous programs, vision sensors, and simulators for testing the platform in real-world environments." Apple is said to have kept staff numbers in the team steady by hiring people to help with the new focus.

The report follows months of internal struggles as Apple's so-called "Project Titan" team is believed to have faced delays and internal strife.

"Apple Car" lead Steve Zadesky reportedly stepped down from the project earlier this year, with his responsibilities shifting to Apple's hardware engineering chief Dan Riccio until longtime Apple executive Bob Mansfield took over the team in April and shifted the project's direction.While plans for an Apple-designed vehicle by the early 2020s are seemingly in flux, the company's research and development plans could change over the coming months and years. Nevertheless, Tesla CEO Elon Musk believes Apple will not have its own vehicle ready by 2020, calling it a "missed opportunity."

Article Link: Apple Abandons Car Plans 'For Now,' Sets Late 2017 Deadline to Decide Fate of Self-Driving System

Huh.

Really?

Huh.

About a year ago, I posted this: (and a few similar posts since)

Huh. At this rate, I guess I'll be the last one on the "iCar Skeptic island" pretty soon.

What I mean is, I'm still not convinced that all of this is leading to an Apple-manufactured or even Apple-branded (made by BMW?) car at all.

Apple branded (or not) in-car electronic systems, partnerships with multiple auto manufacturers for future internal systems that may or may not include "self-driving" (*spit!*) technology? In-car entertainment and navigation? Electric systems and the technology to better optimize battery usage and charging? Perhaps even visual systems similar to those Corvette Racing uses for rear-view camera tech? Sure. All of that and more.

I see this as Apple working with other automotive tech companies to develop standards in how these technologies connect and how drivers interact with them, to be a key player, designer, supplier to the industry moving forward.

This is an enterprise play. This is a 10 year ->20 year play. Everyone reads/hears "Apple and Cars" and thinks that will be synonymous with "Apple and Watches"... Maybe they need to think more about it more in "Apple and IBM partnering on Enterprise mobility" terms?

This is a huge potential future market for Ax chips, OS X , etc. And Apple could innovate more and do more than just "build a car". I think building a car is aiming too low.

Let me put it this way. Do you think Apple wants to be the next Tucker, or do they want to be the next Freescale, Bosch, Delphi, or even Allied Signal? Do they want to make maybe one in every 50 cars sold, or have their technology built into the majority of cars sold?

I think anyone waiting for an Apple *car* is going to have a looooooong wait.

I may be the last one here to think so... Shrug.

It's nice and sunny here on iCar Skeptic island today.

 

[Bacillus]

I am afraid this article was erroneously phrased.
Apple didn't bail out. As of today, Apple has denounced the post-car era.

 

[jwdsail]

Yes, they built the car first, and then started experimenting with 'automous-like' stuff. It's really just glorified cruise-control though. They really should be sued for calling it Autopilot, and for negligence. One would think Elon would have more sense than that, but he's philosophically committed and being in Silicon Valley, I guess they think slapping a 'beta' label on it resolves them of responsibility.



Truly scary. I absolutely don't like it. And, unfortunately, like Elon above, it's being driven by a mistaken philosophical commitment, not reality.
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No doubt! They've got ***SO*** much work to do just to get iOS and macOS (OS X) back to the state they were in like 5 years ago (in terms of quality). The last thing they need right now is expanding into new areas they don't even know.

I think self-driving tech could be an incredible enabling technology for those who *need* it.

The fact that automakers are instead pushing it as a means to further enable lazy and stupid people to be even more lazy and stupid is just f'in crazy.

Self-driving tech should require *proof* of a physical/medical *need* for the assistance technology.

Let the lazy and stupid people walk, or take a f'in cab/bus/ubber!

 

[Dmunjal]

Nope. First of all, nobody is comparing the Bolt to the Tesla models now being sold, if for no other reason than the Teslas are super luxury priced cars. As for comparing to the Model 3, the obvious issue is that car is not available yet, when it will be available isn't known, and neither is the actual price. All of those things are known about the Bolt, and you can actually buy one now. You might want to read some reviews of the Bolt before you make claims about its "basis."

FWD vs. RWD/AWD tells me all I need to know. Tesla will have OTA updates and the supercharger network.

Plus, I can tell the interior quality here.

http://www.pbs.org/video/2365867139/

Not impressive. The range is impressive, though.

 

[smorrissey]

Baby you can't drive my car...beep beep...

 

[jscooper22]

This makes sense; it's an entirely different industry, one fraught with issues Apple has never had to contend with. With very few exceptions, I'm guessing no one died from a buggy MBP revision.

 

[Bacillus]

I never thought they ever intended to build a whole car. Tim's continued comments about AR I believe confirm what I've always thought, they have been working on a heads up/AR software that has always been key to what they are doing.

So after all, Grand Theft Auto was the right demo of Apple's ambitions
(and the level of AR to be supported by Intel graphics...)

 

[Mactendo]

Fall of the Titan...

 

[seatton]

Too bad. I was hoping to get an Apple Car Edition with ceramic finish.

 

[jwdsail]

This is a classic problem faced by people too rarely and in which humans probably rarely decide rationally with moral underpinnings in the moment.

The morality of self driving cars is can we save 5000+ lives a year and save millions of lost human hours in driving cars?

We could also save lives by enforcing traffic laws, and forcing people to actually LEARN HOW TO DRIVE, rather than handing out drivers licenses as Cracker Jack prizes? Require advanced driving schools that actually cover real world driving situations? Require driving instruction that actually teaches drivers how to survive dangerous situations, and how to avoid many of them in the first place?

All I see here, is car makers enabling stupid and lazy people to be even more stupid and lazy, when they shouldn't be on the road at all. Just to make a few more bucks.

Too many stupid people, and not enough saber tooth tigers to EAT them all, and we're going to let even more stupid and lazy people be even more stupid and lazy. Brilliant!

I'm disgusted by the world.

 

[Zakzilla]

Focus on the computer/software aspect, not the actual car part. Makes a million times more sense.

I think Tesla shows how important it is to go the 'traditional apple' route and vertically integrate software AND hardware. I don't think Apple will make a very compelling autonomous technology without integrating hardware like they usually do.

 

[Fosty]

Canceled because Apple realized car buyers won't pay top dollar for 3yr old models with no update in sight.

 

[newdeal]

making a car isn't a venture they can just take up. It requires a huge amount of infrastructure, design, safety testing and on and on. On top of all that, the margins suck. Apple doesn't like small margins so this project never made sense. Similarly it doesn't make sense for them to develop a self-driving car system for other people to use. No one will use it they will all develop their own because of the liability if it fails

 

[Bacillus]

I always felt Apple was overreaching with the Apple car. Why not just try to control the music/navigation/entertainment aspect of driving, and leave the actual car designing to others? Kinda like what they're doing with the TV. I dunno. Just seems like a money pit.

Difficult, as car companies do not welcome Apple's intervention (and neither Google's)
Look at their lackluster implementation of CarPlay (now an inferior alternative to their own built-in infotainment systems)

 

[Fosty]

I give up with this damn company. Tim is too afraid to take risks.

He has the 'courage' to abandon universal audio standards and fleece your wallet for a new set of headphones not to mention solder ram into the base iMacs preventing them from being upgraded.

 

[840quadra]

Other manufacturers will build EVs. The problem is they don't have what Tesla has today. A high speed nationwide charging network and a battery factory.

Fair enough, but could easily become a moot point.

Lets say Ford installs outlets at each of their dealerships nationwide, and provides free or discounted power to their customers, and Pay to use for non Fords. That move alone would far surpass the existing Testla supercharger network.

Many of these sites (due to their shops) already have 3 Phase power, with plenty of KW to support customers topping off their charge for trips. Add in a few pay to use chargers that are already popping up at competitive dealerships (because we do have EV here in the States outside of Testla), followed by (some already planned) power cooperatives, startups that are out there, problem solved.

Still, at the end of the day, much of the issue lies within the fact of our US power grid not being setup to support such a large resource tap.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

As someone whose car brakes failed while going down Divisidaro towards Lombard in San Francisco on a Friday night, narrowly missing one dude who didn't believe my horn and lights, running through a red light doing about 70MPH, crossing Lombard when I had the red light and not hitting cars that had the green light, then having my car come to a stop 2 blocks from the Pacific Ocean, I beg to differ.

You, as a human, didn't recognize symptoms that your brakes were failing. The self driving car, on the other hand, knows exactly how much the car should be slowing down. If it's not slowing down by the right amount, the car needs to be serviced.

Also... I've never been in this situation before so just asking... shouldn't your E-brake/parking brake still work?

 

[amegicfox]

Timmy is always traveling taking selfies and making millions after millions. He is laughing his way to bank and on his way to be a billionaire when Apple still sell overpriced and outdated products.

He has been spending Apple billions in R&D like a drunken sailor and we still have macs that are 4 years old.

What are thousands and thousands of engineers at Apple doing every day ?

the iPhone still costs over a thousand dollars and doesn't have wireless charging

Apple is mess. Please someone fire Timmy the crook and the entire board

 

[CmdrLaForge]

I understood in the EU a law is under way that would only allow electrical cars to be released from 2030 onwards

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Since when was the speed limit only 20mph?

Since you're driving someplace where you have to decide between hitting a pedestrian and hitting a wall. Neither of these obstacles exist on roads where the speed limit is over 35 MPH. If both of these obstacles are present, you're in an alleyway and the speed limit is probably lower than 20 MPH.

 

[Dmunjal]

Fair enough, but could easily become a moot point.

Lets say Ford installs outlets at each of their dealerships nationwide, and provides free or discounted power to their customers, and Pay to use for non Fords. That move alone would far surpass the existing Testla supercharger network.

Many of these sites (due to their shops) already have 3 Phase power, with plenty of KW to support customers topping off their charge for trips. Add in a few pay to use chargers that are already popping up at competitive dealerships (because we do have EV here in the States outside of Testla), followed by (some already planned) power cooperatives, startups that are out there, problem solved.

Still, at the end of the day, much of the issue lies within the fact of our US power grid not being setup to support such a large resource tap.

The problem is that these dealerships aren't where they need to be. Most dealerships are in urban or suburban locations. For long-distance travel, you need them on the interstates, the truck stops, etc. Exactly where you wouldn't find a dealership. Tesla has this today. You can go cross country in a Tesla because these charging stations are laid out about 150-200 miles apart. Some are in the middle of nowhere because that's where they need to be.

 

[amegicfox]

Tim Crook

1. can't deliver Macs desktops and laptops with latest tech and competitive price
2. can't deliver an iPhone/iPad without bumps, long battery and with wireless charging
3. can't deliver a cable tv service
4. can't deliver a netflix service

and do you think he will be able to deliver an electric car ?

mercedes, tesla, ford, volkswagen, audi and every other car company will kill Timmy

he is incompetent and greedy, he will bring Apple to bankruptcy or sell it to google or Facebook

he only thinks about money and squeezing the last dollar from his customers