Apple Accuses AliveCor of 'Brazen' Patent Infringement in New Countersuit

[MacRumors]

Apple today filed a patent infringement lawsuit against AliveCor, a company that has developed the ECG "KardiaBand" designed for the Apple Watch, among other ECG-focused products. AliveCor and Apple are already in the midst of a legal battle following an ITC complaint and antitrust lawsuit that AliveCor filed last year

According to Apple, AliveCor's product line has not been successful with customers, and the company's "failures in the market" have led it to "opportunistic assertions of its patents against Apple." Earlier this year, AliveCor submitted an International Trade Commission complaint against Apple in an attempt to get an import ban on the Apple Watch, and the judge ruled in AliveCor's favor.

Apple says that while it is appealing the ruling, it is using this new patent infringement filing to "set the record straight as to who is the real pioneer," putting a stop to AliveCor's "rampant infringement that unlawfully appropriates Apple's intellectual property." From the filing:

Apple is the pioneering innovator, having researched, developed, and patented core, foundational technologies before AliveCor came into existence. AliveCor's litigation campaign is nothing more than an attempt to siphon from the success of Apple technologies it did not invent, all the while selling products that rely on foundational ECG innovations that Apple patented years before AliveCor came to be.

The complaint cites several Apple patents related to the heart rate and ECG functionality in the Apple Watch, which Apple says AliveCor's KardiaMobile, KardiaMobile Card, and Kardia app infringe on.

Apple claims that AliveCor's patent infringements are causing Apple irreparable harm, with Apple aiming for a permanent injunction to stop further infringement, as well as damages and legal fees.

AliveCor first filed an antitrust suit against Apple back in May 2021, accusing Apple of "monopolistic conduct" for the launch of the ECG functionality in the Apple Watch. AliveCor claims that Apple saw the success of its KardiaBand and decided to "corner the market for heart rate analysis on Apple Watch."

The company has also filed patent infringement lawsuits accusing Apple of coping AliveCor's cardiological detection and analysis technology.

Apple's full complaint against AliveCor can be read on Scribd.

Article Link: Apple Accuses AliveCor of 'Brazen' Patent Infringement in New Countersuit

 

[chumps52]

Damn, this drama really gets my heart racing.

 

[dreamland-kxta]

Easy for Apple to see every app's source code once it's submitted to the app store so Apple can easily steal the concept.

Apple Health is the furthest from innovative- all of the 'health' features in iOS have been around for a decade and were created by big pharma and med. device companies.

 

[kylelerner]

AliveCor claims that Apple saw the success of its KardiaBand

The Kardia-what? Yeah, I'm sure Apple, along with everyone else, saw the success of the "KardiaBoooo" and obvi copied it. Yep. That's it. Also, what kind of name even is "AliveCor," what?! Sounds like they won't be "AliveCor" long.

 

[citysnaps]

Easy for Apple to see every app's source code once it's submitted to the app store so Apple can easily steal the concept.

You have proof to back up your accusation against Apple, right?

 

[Pezimak]

I have to say considering Kardia were on the market way before Apple was, like a good couple of years, I think I’ll side with Kardia. Apple could easily patent anything they like at any time, and it’s not till someone complains that they get called out.
Kardia are also way better as at first they did 2 lead readings I think and now do 6 lead, Apple has stuck to 1 for years now with absolutely no innovation in its ECG reader. Both are accurate, I only use my Apple Watch though but have considered switching to Kardia for its 6 lead readings.

”According to Apple, AliveCor's product line has not been successful with customers, and the company's "failures in the market" have led it to "opportunistic assertions of its patents against Apple."

To be honest that’s just total BS by Apples lawyers, Kardia are hardly a mass market device and are recommended by cardiologists, it’s hardly a mass number who need one, Apple sticking an EKG on EVERY Apple Watch sold since the series 4 tends to give them a dominant advantage in the market that it can abuse as they see fit, like claiming Kardia haven’t been as successful, well if as many people needed Kardia EKG readers as Apple has sold watches since the Series 4, then their would be something SERIOUSLY wrong with the human races health.

 

[steve09090]

You have proof to back up your accusation against Apple, right?

Well let’s explore that. It’s a lawsuit, so they think they do..

 

[joeblough]

Easy for Apple to see every app's source code once it's submitted to the app store so Apple can easily steal the concept.

Apple Health is the furthest from innovative- all of the 'health' features in iOS have been around for a decade and were created by big pharma and med. device companies.

you got a source for that claim? i don't think developers have to submit their source code, just the compiled binary.

obviously you can decompile a binary image and there are machine learning techniques that try to reconstruct the source from a binary, but i really doubt you need to turn your source over to apple.

 

[SnappleRumors]

Apple today filed a patent infringement lawsuit against AliveCor, a company that has developed the ECG "KardiaBand" designed for the Apple Watch, among other ECG-focused products. AliveCor and Apple are already in the midst of a legal battle following an ITC complaint and antitrust lawsuit that AliveCor filed last year

According to Apple, AliveCor's product line has not been successful with customers, and the company's "failures in the market" have led it to "opportunistic assertions of its patents against Apple." Earlier this year, AliveCor submitted an International Trade Commission complaint against Apple in an attempt to get an import ban on the Apple Watch, and the judge ruled in AliveCor's favor.

Apple says that while it is appealing the ruling, it is using this new patent infringement filing to "set the record straight as to who is the real pioneer," putting a stop to AliveCor's "rampant infringement than unlawfully appropriates Apple's intellectual property." From the filing:

The complaint cites several Apple patents related to the heart rate and ECG functionality in the Apple Watch, which Apple says AliveCor's KardiaMobile, KardiaMobile Card, and Kardia app infringe on.

Apple claims that AliveCor's patent infringements are causing Apple irreparable harm, with Apple aiming for a permanent injunction to stop further infringement, as well as damages and legal fees.

AliveCor first filed an antitrust suit against Apple back in May 2021, accusing Apple of "monopolistic conduct" for the launch of the ECG functionality in the Apple Watch. AliveCor claims that Apple saw the success of its KardiaBand and decided to "corner the market for heart rate analysis on Apple Watch."

The company has also filed patent infringement lawsuits accusing Apple of coping AliveCor's cardiological detection and analysis technology.

Apple's full complaint against AliveCor can be read on Scribd.

Article Link: Apple Accuses AliveCor of 'Brazen' Patent Infringement in New Countersuit

Oh my a countersuit claiming brazen patent infringement. Well, use of an adjective like that surely puts Apple in the driver’s seat.

 

[bLackjackj]

Oh boo hoo,..like Apple has never "borrowed" innovation from other companies. How many times have they been sued now??

 

[mknelson]

I followed the link to the press release from AliveCor which links to the judge's initial determination. Meh

Apple proved several claims by AliveCor were invalid for various reasons, the Judge said others were infringed.

Now, if Apple can show prior Patents or prior art…

 

[rizzo41999]

I have to say considering Kardia were on the market way before Apple was, like a good couple of years, I think I’ll side with Kardia. Apple could easily patent anything they like at any time, and it’s not till someone complains that they get called out.
Kardia are also way better as at first they did 2 lead readings I think and now do 6 lead, Apple has stuck to 1 for years now with absolutely no innovation in its ECG reader. Both are accurate, I only use my Apple Watch though but have considered switching to Kardia for its 6 lead readings.

”According to Apple, AliveCor's product line has not been successful with customers, and the company's "failures in the market" have led it to "opportunistic assertions of its patents against Apple."

To be honest that’s just total BS by Apples lawyers, Kardia are hardly a mass market device and are recommended by cardiologists, it’s hardly a mass number who need one, Apple sticking an EKG on EVERY Apple Watch sold since the series 4 tends to give them a dominant advantage in the market that it can abuse as they see fit, like claiming Kardia haven’t been as successful, well if as many people needed Kardia EKG readers as Apple has sold watches since the Series 4, then their would be something SERIOUSLY wrong with the human races health.

I agree with you. AliveCor’s product is a truly specialized medical device that is not intended for use as a feature but for certain medical conditions. I’ve been a Mac user for 25 years but Apple’s claims in this case seem ridiculous.

 

[jonblatho]

Easy for Apple to see every app's source code once it's submitted to the app store so Apple can easily steal the concept.

Apple Health is the furthest from innovative- all of the 'health' features in iOS have been around for a decade and were created by big pharma and med. device companies.

There's a lot that I view as problematic with respect to the App Store business model — like the potential for use of proprietary data to identify and copy nascent app/service ideas, which Apple claims does not happen — but Apple cannot see the corresponding source code for App Store submissions.

Like I alluded to, though, Apple doesn't need to see the source code in order to copy ideas.

 

[steve09090]

I followed the link to the press release from AliveCor which links to the judge's initial determination. Meh

Apple proved several claims by AliveCor were invalid for various reasons, the Judge said others were infringed.

Now, if Apple can show prior Patents or prior art…

In the Patent Infringement Lawsuit, Apple state they have had these patents before AliveCor were even a business! It looks like it will come down to whether AliveCor actually developed something new, even though many of their previous products cite Apples own patents.

 

[Pezimak]

In the Patent Infringement Lawsuit, Apple state they have had these patents before AliveCor were even a business! It looks like it will come down to whether AliveCor actually developed something new, even though many of their previous products cite Apples own patents.

That’s some stretch, considering Alivecor was founded in 2011, and Apple didn’t launch its ECG in the Apple Watch till 2018.

 

[TomMcIn]

Oh boo hoo,..like Apple has never "borrowed" innovation from other companies. How many times have they been sued now??

Compared to the number of times they have sued and won.

 

[Chazak]

Well let’s explore that. It’s a lawsuit, so they think they do..

They might think they do, but that's not an answer to what he said. Someone else made a strong inference that Apple could be stealing code from apps that are submitted. Citysnaps replied essentially saying "You have some proof to support what you have said?" The exact same question came to me too. I bet the OP doesn't have any to refer to.

One other point - Filing a lawsuit is a simple act in which you make a claim in which you assert you have suffered a wrong and been damaged. Many, many lawsuits are filed by plaintiffs who do not have proof of anything and know that upfront, but are using the suit as a strategic tool to try and extract some other benefit.

 

[now i see it]

Has everyone forgotten about Xerox?

 

[Chazak]

Oh boo hoo,..like Apple has never "borrowed" innovation from other companies. How many times have they been sued now??

So, if I understand correctly, you are saying the number of times someone has been sued should be taken into consideration when the courts are deciding on the validity of patent claims involving that person or entity. Yes?

 

[steve09090]

That’s some stretch, considering Alivecor was founded in 2011, and Apple didn’t launch its ECG in the Apple Watch till 2018.

Tbh, I’m no patent lawyer, but I was just saying what Apple write in their lawsuit.

Page 2 line 16

For example, in 2008, Apple had already developed and filed for patent protection on specific and foundational technologies pertaining to embedded heart rate and electric cardiac activity monitors.​

​

Page 3 Line 15

Founded in 2010, AliveCor's business has focused on the sale of portable ECG devices which rely on numerous technologies in Apple's iPhone and/or Watch to provide ECG information to AliveCor's customers. Rather than develop its technology from scratch, however, AliveCor resorted to including the very technology that Apple created and patented. This was no accident: AliveCor has long known of Apple's patented technology, as many of AliveCor's own patents cite to many of Apple's patented innovations.​

I don’t pretend to understand the specific patents, and that’s for lawyers and judge/jury to decide. But they’re making a pretty compelling case, but again, that’s what lawyers do, and I bet Apples lawyers are pretty experienced at that.

I have no idea which way they will go.

 

[Chazak]

That’s some stretch, considering Alivecor was founded in 2011, and Apple didn’t launch its ECG in the Apple Watch till 2018.

As Apple has learned so very well at great monetary cost, you needn't launch an actual product in order to protect patent rights when you have patented the IP and can claim it is in use by someone else that it has not been licensed to.

 

[steve09090]

They might think they do, but that's not an answer to what he said. Someone else made a strong inference that Apple could be stealing code from apps that are submitted. Citysnaps replied essentially saying "You have some proof to support what you have said?" The exact same question came to me too. I bet the OP doesn't have any to refer to.

This about patents. If they have them, they have a case. It’s not, to my knowledge about software code.

One other point - Filing a lawsuit is a simple act in which you make a claim in which you assert you have suffered a wrong and been damaged. Many, many lawsuits are filed by plaintiffs who do not have proof of anything and know that upfront, but are using the suit as a strategic tool to try and extract some other benefit.

I Agree and reading at least part (about half of the document before it put me to sleep), it doesn’t seem like that’s what apple are doing, but honestly, who knows their motive. They might actually be aggrieved, or they might be just making a counter attack, as they do.

I understand there will be a lot of people making just bland comments (I’m not suggesting you have because you posed excellent points imo), but people can just bash/support Apple if they want but it doesn’t actually add to the thread If they have no knowledge (can’t be bothered to read) about the actual patent lawsuit.

 

[Pezimak]

Tbh, I’m no patent lawyer, but I was just saying what Apple write in their lawsuit.

Page 2 line 16

For example, in 2008, Apple had already developed and filed for patent protection on specific and foundational technologies pertaining to embedded heart rate and electric cardiac activity monitors.​

​

Page 3 Line 15

Founded in 2010, AliveCor's business has focused on the sale of portable ECG devices which rely on numerous technologies in Apple's iPhone and/or Watch to provide ECG information to AliveCor's customers. Rather than develop its technology from scratch, however, AliveCor resorted to including the very technology that Apple created and patented. This was no accident: AliveCor has long known of Apple's patented technology, as many of AliveCor's own patents cite to many of Apple's patented innovations.​

I don’t pretend to understand the specific patents, and that’s for lawyers and judge/jury to decide. But they’re making a pretty compelling case, but again, that’s what lawyers do, and I bet Apples lawyers are pretty experienced at that.

I have no idea which way they will go.

I think that’s a hard one for Apple to prove, they may have patented the idea, like they constantly do with hundreds of ideas, but I don’t think Apple will have been developing it for 10 years.

 

[Pezimak]

As Apple has learned so very well at great monetary cost, you needn't launch an actual product in order to protect patent rights when you have patented the IP and can claim it is in use by someone else that it has not been licensed to.

Must like the good old slide to unlock someone did before them, yet Apple patented it.

 

[steve09090]

I think that’s a hard one for Apple to prove, they may have patented the idea, like they constantly do with hundreds of ideas, but I don’t think Apple will have been developing it for 10 years.

Id be surprised if they didn’t. They would obviously have proof of these patents, and Apple develop patents sometimes decades before a launch. Can you imagine how many they’d have for the Apple Car, if it’s still a thing? And their AR/VR set has been going on for almost a decade that we know of.

Saying that, AliveCor have only been around for 11 years. I reckon Apple would have the jump on that. But again, that’s up to the courts to decide and whether the Apple Patents are relevant or actually override whatever AliveCor have.

🤷🏻‍♂️