Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Actually, no. Apple wants 30% because they provide the means to distribute that app.
No, Apple's model is different. Apple does all the distribution, handling payments, handling sales tax, for free. If you have a free app (for example an airline that distributes an app for free that makes it easier for the customer), Apple doesn't charge you anything except for a $99 developer fee. Apple takes 30% when you make money from it. So companies like Spotify pay for everyone's bandwidth and so on.
 
Apple is just one part of the three part oligopoly that includes Microsoft and Google, none of which can do any harm to anyone. They are all extremely powerful and well equipped to hire the best paid liars, I mean attorneys or accountants. Not saying that is going on here, but usually, where there's smoke, there's fire. Obviously, Apple products are popular and mostly work well, except for some things like Siri, which is clearly cerebrally challenged compared to it's Android counterpart, but I digressed. Funny, just today, my daughter-in-law who is a VP of a well known bank, had difficulty with Siri at the precise same moment when my use of my Android counterpart was quick, accurate and flawless.

My main beef with Apple, is that it's essentially become a brand with a cult following. Not good and sorry for those whose feathers I've ruffled.
 
Yeah right, "we firmly adhere to the principle of treating all developers fairly and equitably", all except themselves. Which is their whole point.
It's one business section (the App Store) subsidising another (Apple Music) by not charging it the usual 30% cut, as Apple Music probably would be loosing money otherwise. But Apple could be charging Apple Music this 30% in their internal bookkeeping and simply operate Apple Music at a loss. To Spotify that wouldn't make any difference.

What Spotify is complaining about is (a) that Apple is using it dominant position (by being the platform owner) to undercut them by presumably running a loss-making business and (b) that Apple is forcing Spotify to choose between three options 1) to advertise the same service with two different prices depending on whether customers sign up via the app or via a web browser, 2) to not have a signup button in their app, or 3) to have a noticeably lower revenue from customers signing up in the app.

[...] by forcing other app providers out by using unfair competition.
Which of the two, (a) or (b), do you consider to be unfair competition? Note that 'problem' (b) would exist even if there were no Apple Music.
[doublepost=1467414213][/doublepost]
No, what Apple is doing is asking for 30% on your electricity bill from your power company, because you downloaded an app on Apple store. basically if you sign up using an app, apple wants 30% of what-ever for providing nothing else than the initial download. And you can't add a signup here in your app.
No, it's more like the city charging sales tax on your electricity bill.
 
Let me get this straight - you spend hundreds of dollars on a phone and thousands of dollars on data plans to make said phone work, and you do no research on what you're buying beyond watching a few ads from the manufacturer, and... you are not the one at fault for this?

You mention Idiocracy, a movie about what could happen to society if people lose the ability to think critically for themselves. And your solution is... the government should step in, so people won't have to think for themselves.

So you acknowledge that Apple IS doing something deceptive? "and you do no research on what you're buying beyond watching a few ads from the manufacturer, and... you are not the one at fault for this"
Oddly enough you are defending it.

Apple has apps, it's what sheeple crave.
 
Last edited:
Apple is full of it when it comes to this. They own and run the App Store like the government, with plenty of deceit.

How is it that Spotify isn't labeled as an Essential app when it is the most widely used streaming music service in the world? Oh, because it competes with Apple Music? A dating app like Tinder is labeled as an Essential app, and how much do you want to bet that if Apple were to get into the dating app business they'd sink Tinder down to the bottom of the barrel in a heartbeat.

Well I wouldn't call Spotify and essential app either. I think it's inferior to Apple Music.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Abazigal
I do not think this stupid from spotify. They are operating in a razor thin margin environment. And it is unfair competition when apple's service can afford to price the same as spotify still win more money because it doesn t pay the 15% apple cut.
If the general costs and margins for a music streaming service are similar for Apple and Spotify, then Apple is earning more money if people signup to Spotify from within the app compared to them subscribing to Apple Music. The former gets them $3 (or $1.5) per user and year and the latter probably more like $0.5 per user and year. Of course, over a longer time frame, the percentage of Spotify users signing up via the app (and thus paying more) is bound to go down as the news that you can save money by subscribing via the web will spread over time. And music streaming might also get more profitable as the number of users grows (spreading the development overhead over a larger number of users, competitors dropping out, allowing an increase in prices).
 
They can sell their subscriptions from their website, use the app store to distribute a free app to everyone in the world, and they get all the advantages and Apple doesn't get a penny.

Except that they are not allowed by Apple to inform the customer about this.

So those users end up overpaying since the profit margin on streaming services is way lower than the cut Apple wants, forcing Spotify to increase the price in the app store to avoid losing money on every subscriber.

Which of course makes Spotify seem like a worse deal than Apple music based on price alone.

This is greedy bully tactics from Apple, nothing else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zaphon and trifid
How do you think Apple makes money to provide that App Store? It's not free...
Selling phones and creating deceptive ways to get people reliant on their proprietary garbage. What they are asking for is anti-competitive. I don't think Spotify has this problem with Android. I'm guessing here, but Android seems to manage just fine without this fee. Think about it... The percentages for Apple are arbitrary. How else would they be able to lower the rate from 30 to 15 without batting an eye. There is no competition or the ability to have competition on iOS. This prevents us from ever knowing what the real cost is to them.
 
Except that they are not allowed by Apple to inform the customer about this.

Sure they are. They can take out ads all over the web, TV, radio, skywriting, whatever. They can't advertise the option within the ecosystem Apple provides, much like I'm not allowed to stick a sign advertising my crap on your front lawn.

Selling phones and creating deceptive ways to get people reliant on their proprietary garbage. What they are asking for is anti-competitive. I don't think Spotify has this problem with Android. I'm guessing here, but Android seems to manage just fine without this fee. Think about it... The percentages for Apple are arbitrary. How else would they be able to lower the rate from 30 to 15 without batting an eye. There is no competition or the ability to have competition on iOS. This prevents us from ever knowing what the real cost is to them.

Since it's proprietary garbage I'm sure you don't own any of it, so none of this should matter to you (unless you're a Spotify employee).

(No competition on iOS, huh? Google, Amazon, Spotify, Tidal, Apple Music stores. Netflix, HBO, Apple, etc. video apps. Google, Apple, Kindle bookstores. Nope, no competition at all.
 
First off, I'm not a lawyer. However, regarding smartphones we currently have 2 companies with competing iOSs. Once you have selected one, you have become a part of their ecosystem. In the case of Apple (40% of US smartphones), their App store would seem to be operating as a monopoly which is illegal. Regardless, by allowing Apple or Alphabet to set unrealistic and anticompetitive regulations on; something as necessary to our population as smartphone apps, we are allowing them to break the spirit of what was intended with our antitrust laws. When we buy our phones we are shown all of the cool cameras, status improvements, or texting shortcuts it will provide you. We are not told we will be promoting an Apple only society where all things belong to apple and your actions and money will be governed by them as well. We no longer need such physical things as cds, books, and movies. What about sex? I'm assuming once virtual reality gets to the next level ****, Apple will also control the pimp game. It doesn't have to be this way, but currently Apple is dictating so it is. Unless our government steps in, it seems like Mike Judge may have gotten some things right in Idiocracy. Regardless, in my opinion the spirit of law is being bent in Apple's favor to the detriment of the consumer with regards to their App store.
[doublepost=1467410506][/doublepost]
faulty at that

Says the shill who just created a new account to specifically post about Apple vs Spotify.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jax44 and CarlJ
Sure they are. They can take out ads all over the web, TV, radio, skywriting, whatever. They can't advertise the option within the ecosystem Apple provides, much like I'm not allowed to stick a sign advertising my crap on your front lawn.



Since it's proprietary garbage I'm sure you don't own any of it, so none of this should matter to you (unless you're a Spotify employee).

(No competition on iOS, huh? Google, Amazon, Spotify, Tidal, Apple Music stores. Netflix, HBO, Apple, etc. video apps. Google, Apple, Kindle bookstores. Nope, no competition at all.
5 computers and an iPhone. I see the ship going the wrong direction and am voicing my concern. If you read all of my posts you'd know this has nothing to do with Spotify and everything to do with forcing Apple to break into smaller companies or at least stop being anti-competitive.
 
Ultimately, Apple's rules can't override fair competition laws that protect—guess who—you, the consumer.

Apple's iPhone is hardware foremost. No different than your desktop Mac. Both have app stores that make software purchases more trustworthy and safer to pay for. The difference is, you can shop and install desktop apps without Apple's app store. There's no such option on Apple's mobile devices. Apple's iOS app store is mandatory.

Apple provides exposure for apps but it doesn't host an app's backend services necessarily. Even a 15 percent cut for mere payment processing and exposure is extortion. Hell, the Financial Times realized it immediately and withdrew their in-app subscription option.

Imagine an iPhone with Apple apps as your only option. It initially is what Steve Jobs envisioned. Had he stayed the course, many of you would be using Android phones and even Windows phones. The "hard work" of third party devs and services saved Apple a lot of effort and made Apple's mobile products competitive.
 
5 computers and an iPhone. I see the ship going the wrong direction and am voicing my concern. If you read all of my posts you'd know this has nothing to do with Spotify and everything to do with forcing Apple to break into smaller companies or at least stop being anti-competitive.

They're not being anti competitive.

Look, this is what's going to happen:

1. Apple is not going to change their policies because of a cry baby like Spotify.
2. Spotify won't sue Apple because they'll lose, and they'd look even worse than they do now.
3. Apple will NOT face any antitrust investigation over this or be forced to change their policies.
4. Spotify will modify their App so it complies with Apple guidelines, at which point Apple will approve it for The App Store.

Game. Set. Match for Apple.

Doesn't matter how much you whine along with Spotify, nothing's going to change.
[doublepost=1467417224][/doublepost]
doesn't make me wrong

It means you have zero credibility. I don't know what's more pathetic: a person who would actually create a new account just to troll an article or that person actually believing nobody has figured it out and they have everyone fooled into thinking they're a "concerned Apple user".
 
How do you think Apple makes money to provide that App Store? It's not free...
Um, by selling a $650 phone?

The ones that subscribe through the App Store are due to the iOS platform. The ones that subscribe through Spotify's website are not. Spotify doesn't pay Apple a penny for customers who have the Spotify App on their phone, use it on their phone all day, and subscribe through the website.

Ok well I own multiple iOS devices and subscribed via the web because I didn't want to pay the extra $3/mo. So my subscription is not due to the iOS platform? That makes no sense.
 
Ultimately, Apple's rules can't override fair competition laws that protect—guess who—you, the consumer.

Apple's iPhone is hardware foremost. No different than your desktop Mac. Both have app stores that make software purchases more trustworthy and safer to pay for. The difference is, you can shop and install desktop apps without Apple's app store. There's no such option on Apple's mobile devices. Apple's iOS app store is mandatory.

Apple provides exposure for apps but it doesn't host an app's backend services necessarily. Even a 15 percent cut for mere payment processing and exposure is extortion. Hell, the Financial Times realized it immediately and withdrew their in-app subscription option.

Imagine an iPhone with Apple apps as your only option. It initially is what Steve Jobs envisioned. Had he stayed the course, many of you would be using Android phones and even Windows phones. The "hard work" of third party devs and services saved Apple a lot of effort and made Apple's mobile products competitive.
They're not being anti competitive.

Look, this is what's going to happen:

1. Apple is not going to change their policies because of a cry baby like Spotify.
2. Spotify won't sue Apple because they'll lose, and they'd look even worse than they do now.
3. Apple will NOT face any antitrust investigation over this or be forced to change their policies.
4. Spotify will modify their App so it complies with Apple guidelines, at which point Apple will approve it for The App Store.

Game. Set. Match for Apple.

Doesn't matter how much you whine along with Spotify, nothing's going to change.
I agree with all 4 of your points. I'd like to add a 5th that Spotify will likely succumb to Apple due to their non-competitive advantage. Further I'd be willing to guess you hope Spotify goes out of business. If this is the case, you are a fool. I also bet you think the iPod was a godsend to the music industry.
[doublepost=1467417585][/doublepost]
They're not being anti competitive.

Look, this is what's going to happen:

1. Apple is not going to change their policies because of a cry baby like Spotify.
2. Spotify won't sue Apple because they'll lose, and they'd look even worse than they do now.
3. Apple will NOT face any antitrust investigation over this or be forced to change their policies.
4. Spotify will modify their App so it complies with Apple guidelines, at which point Apple will approve it for The App Store.

Game. Set. Match for Apple.

Doesn't matter how much you whine along with Spotify, nothing's going to change.
[doublepost=1467417224][/doublepost]

It means you have zero credibility. I don't know what's more pathetic: a person who would actually create a new account just to troll an article or that person actually believing nobody has figured it out and they have everyone fooled into thinking they're a "concerned Apple user".
Regardless of credibility, I'm not wrong.
 
Except that they are not allowed by Apple to inform the customer about this.

So those users end up overpaying since the profit margin on streaming services is way lower than the cut Apple wants, forcing Spotify to increase the price in the app store to avoid losing money on every subscriber.

Which of course makes Spotify seem like a worse deal than Apple music based on price alone.

This is greedy bully tactics from Apple, nothing else.

I'm glad to see that at least someone get's it. Everyone says no biggie, everyone has to play by the rules. However, that's not completely true. As Apple doesn't have to. One could argue they are internally taking the 30% from the Apple Music dept. and putting it into the iTunes Store bucket, but at the end of the day, it's an extra 30% profit over any other competitor (as when they sum it all up from all the groups, that's an extra 30% in Apple's bucket). Or the competitor has to charge more to offset the 30% (15%) and well they look more expensive than Apple, and hence the issue.

This literally is the Book issue again (Thanks for the $100 Apple). If Apple was solely the store, this wouldn't be an issue, it's when they become a competitor to the apps in the store that this issue pops up over and over.
 
They're not being anti competitive.

Look, this is what's going to happen:

1. Apple is not going to change their policies because of a cry baby like Spotify.
2. Spotify won't sue Apple because they'll lose, and they'd look even worse than they do now.
3. Apple will NOT face any antitrust investigation over this or be forced to change their policies.
4. Spotify will modify their App so it complies with Apple guidelines, at which point Apple will approve it for The App Store.

Game. Set. Match for Apple.

You forgot: Spotify will remove IAP and all new signups will be via the browser. If I was a customer paying $12.99 I'd cancel and re-sign up via the browser.

You can list all the benefits Apple and the App Store provide but they apply to all apps, free, paid, subscription etc. Apple isn't doing anything different for Spotify than they do for anyone else. Target makes money off me if I use their app to buy something but Apple doesn't get a cut of it. Why are digital sales treated differently? Because that content is viewed/listened to on Apple's hardware? Why does that matter?
 
  • Like
Reactions: samcraig
The inconsistency I see is that Apple doesn't take 30% of all uber rides, pizzas ordered, seamless orders, etc... so there are different rules for different developers and services.
 
Nope. Completely WRONG. NONE of the streaming goes through apple servers.

Again for all the SHEEPPLE out there

If I order a product using the amazon app does apple get a cut? Nope
If I order something using the walmart app does apple get a cut? Nope
If I order ANY product shipped to my house using ANY app in the app store does apple get a cut? Nope

Yet with Spotify.. They want a cut.
I never said the streaming did. The subscription is an in-app purchase so it's subject to the fee. That's how it works.
 
You forgot: Spotify will remove IAP and all new signups will be via the browser. If I was a customer paying $12.99 I'd cancel and re-sign up via the browser.

You can list all the benefits Apple and the App Store provide but they apply to all apps, free, paid, subscription etc. Apple isn't doing anything different for Spotify than they do for anyone else. Target makes money off me if I use their app to buy something but Apple doesn't get a cut of it. Why are digital sales treated differently? Because that content is viewed/listened to on Apple's hardware? Why does that matter?

Exactly this - and you know if we both agree - there's something there ;)
 
I feel like Spotify should pull out of the Apple App Store completely. I have a feeling the result would backlash on Apple and not on Spotify. Android owns the mobile market anyways. If anything, it would make more people switch to Android. Anytime you get in between a person and their music, your asking for trouble.

Sure, Spotify should halve their userbase and earnings just to "make more people switch to Android"
 
No it's not . You missing the point that Apple takes 30% of the subscription fee over the whole period, just cause you signed up via the app. The first analogy was correct , yours actually is not. They are selling a service and not physical products .

Even as a customer why should I be charged 12.99 to signup for Spotify that I can use on any device , just to pay the Apple tax.... while if I signed up on the net it's 9.99. Crap like this makes me avoid using the App Store for buying apps that are subscription based.

It's purchased in apple's marketplace so it gets the fee. They don't like it then don't offer in-app subscription purchases. As long as apple processes the payment, it gets the fee.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EricTheHalfBee
It's purchased in apple's marketplace so it gets the fee. They don't like it then don't offer in-app subscription purchases. As long as apple processes the payment, it gets the fee.

Except you can't use your own method to process the fee, or even mention it exists in your app. So your stuck with an app where the consumer goes how am I supposed to use this or your stuck with giving Apple their cut.
 
So you acknowledge that Apple IS doing something deceptive?
Absolutely not. Apple is advertising and informing. Any company will naturally highlight the positive aspects of their products when they describe them. Is this news to you? A smarter consumer will always look for alternative viewpoints (reviews and such) when shopping for big ticket items, to make an informed decision about what they are spending all that hard-earned money on.
Apple has apps, it's what sheeple crave.
It's hard to take anyone seriously who keeps using the word "sheeple".
[doublepost=1467419491][/doublepost]
Except that they are not allowed by Apple to inform the customer about this.
Sure they are. They can advertise this information EVERYWHERE except in the app. If Apple were to allow this, then eventually all software would charge money only outside the App Store ecosystem, which would then become unsustainable.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.